Whenever I am catching beaver I always question how much I should vs. how much I could stretch a beaver. There doesn't seem to be a real clear guideline for exactly what is "proper" and what is just flagrant stretching trying to reach the next size. Below are two of my examples:



The beaver on the left I consider to be properly stretched. There are still some stretch marks in the head half of the hide but those go with the territory if you stretch a beaver to the same ring all the way around. Which brings up a second point, should the oval we stretch beaver to have a head and tail end? It seems like the head end of every hide is slightly smaller than the tail end. This might be beyond the realm of this board though...

The beaver on the right I probably guessed a little bit wrong and realized I had it too tight on the board after it was halfway to being nailed down. The stretch marks are obvious and to me, the hide looks bad. I know some trappers who stretch every beaver so tight that the entire hide is white from stretch marks.

So what is the proper stretch? Should prime, winter caught beaver be stretched as tight as you can manage? Should you go for a snug fit that gives you a hide with few to no stretch marks, much like the top beaver?

Clark

Best advice I was ever given was to not try to make him any bigger than he already is. I've taken more than one off the board half way through and redone it because I had it on too tight. If you stretch it to much you'll make the fur appear thinner, and possibly cost you a grade.

Also, remember that the ovals you draw on the board are guides. You don't have to put the nail directly on the line.

if there over stretched you wont get the shape anyway. back off one or two lines and youll see they stretch nice.. when there done properly,it will look like a tight sheet on a bed. good luck

the way I do mine is take and strech out the beaver from tip of nose to tip of tail and find the matching lines then back up one set of lines and staple it out from there and Iv never had a problem with doing them this way

If when a beaver is alive it has 100 hairs per inch and you stretch that to 2 inches there is still only 100 hairs. You can over stretch them. I hate to fight them to try and make them bigger then they are.

Its always better,when the beaver is between the size lines,to go to the smaller size instead of pulling to the larger size.By stretching the beaver a little loose you will gain in grade a lot of the time.The only exception to this is on damaged or early caught beaver where generally you'll get more for size.

clark, next time you get one like that bring in the shoulders some.

The line is just a guideline it isnt gospel.

Personally I'll go for size over grade anytime. I personally dont believe you can overstretch a beaver and even if you could square inches still pays more.

Greg, previously from NAFA, now with FHA said in his beaver demo that you can't overstretch a beaver. He commenced to grabbing the hide with a pair of pliers and stapled it to a board.....

According to the guru of fur put up(Greg Schroder)You can't over stretch a beaver and I'm In agreement with him. I use a pair of pliers to stretch them as far as I can get them.

i heard the same thing at one of his demo's.

I absolutely agree you can't overstretch beaver. I've experimented doing it both ways and I'll go with size everytime. I've never seen where stretching them loose was a benefit to my paycheck. I will do everything I can to get then into the next size, and it pays off. Next time you stretch a beaver tight grab the center and pull up. There is still plenty of slack in the middle parts of the beaver. The middle never does get totally tight. I've seen guys stretch them so loose you could have pulled 8" up from the center. All you are doing is costing yourselves money by stretching them this way.

Thanks for the information. It's good to hear multiple people quoting an expert (Schroeder) and not Grandpappy's wisdom. However, I do tend to agree with MJM. I really hate fighting the beasts when I get them to the board. At that point, haven't I fought long enough?

For myself, this information is more important when I've got 1/2 the beaver tacked down and the other side is fighting me to make it to the same size. I have let one side in a little bit to not fight it. Obviously the lines are guidelines but it is nice to make that size when 1/2 the beaver is already there!

Clark

EDIT: Goldy, I've never stretched them so loose that there was much slack in the middle. It can be difficult, especially in the larger sizes, to know where to start. With the smaller sizes you take up most of the slack you need to get the job down after the first 8 nails are in. The larger sizes need more slack at 8 nails...but not to much.

Clark. Make yourself a chart. After you get done fleshing one hang it from a nail. Pull it tight and let it snap back. Then measure it and write it down. If you do this after a while you will have an idea what size range each beaver will stretch into. While I'm not afraid of streching tight, I don't want to stretch them more than I have to either. If I remember right 42" was the cut-off for blankets, 39"-42" was for XL, and so on. Some measurements will be borderline, like the 39". It could either slide into a XL or down to a large. But I can tell after a few nails, experience helps a lot.

I agree for the most part with what everyone is saying. If I can stretch a beaver to the next line Im going to do so however if Im stretching him tight and he still isnt going to make it I will back off and let him be a little loose. I dont think you can over stretch beaver especially winter beaver however why stretch them really tight if your not going to make it to the next line. Once they make it to the 2x line unless they will be loose I dont pull any farther.

The beaver in the pictures looks like it is boarded round. Oval is far better to the recommended pattern shapes.

For me I just board them snug to where they best fit on the lines or between the lines. To find the size, what works, is to place the beaver sideways on the board, then take each side of the beaver in the middle and pull it out tight to your oval marks. That will be the oval to board to. Now turn him the right way on the board and proceed to nail to the oval you just determined, it will be very close. Also cut the nose off about 3/4 of an inch ahead of the eyes.

Remember the lines are a guide and they do not have to be followed exact. Sometimes I will end up a bit longer than the oval I am boarding to as the head and butt are the last part to nail.

In most cases you can lay your fleshed beaver on your board. Drag It up to the outer line by the nose. Leave the hide lay natural. What ever line the rear end of the hide lays on will be the line you will follow all the way around the board. If you nail the nose and the tail end on this line and then go to both sides of center and place nails at these points and then place nails at each leg hole you will pretty much know If you will be able to follow the line all the way around. Then you will be able to compensate one way or the other.

This is one reason I like hoops...no slack in the middle.

I nail the nose then the tail and three nails on each side for a total of 8 nails. At this point you can tell if you're at the right size. Incidentally, I always nail out from the nose down the shoulders on each side first as this keeps you from over- stetching the neck (and between the shoulder blades) which tends to be the thinnest part of the pelt and what the graders are always looking at.

I'm not sure how hoops take all the slack out of the middle where nails don't. Please explain.

Ya I would like to know the answer to that one to. And you have a hard time getting a oval shape on a hoop.

This Idea of thick or thin hides Is of no concern. All beaver are machine thinned to decrease the weight of the hide. That has always been the hang up In the beaver processing.

I've figured out a surefire way to determine finished beaver size on a green fleshed hide.

Here it is.

After you do a thousand or two by the time you get done fleshing you know within 95 percent certainty what size its going to be.

If you can pull them out to the same line all the way around and there tight you have reached your size. if you cant get half the beaver on one side out to the same line you have him overstretched. you want them tight but not to the point your nail holes are tearing.

I never stretch any fur tight as it will thin the fur and you will lose on the grade-beaver is no different,Just my opinion based on what FHA graders have indicated to me many times.

Read an article a bit back on over streching beaver. According the the writing one can. It talked about grade like Boco said. You can get a larger size sometimes but it does not always help as when you thin the fur you loose in grade. Most times the little bit smaller size will grade better and you price will be higher then the lower grade on the larger size.
I use the formula 1 1/2 + 2 the length of the green hide hanging, works pretty good. An over stretched hide is easy to tell also.

Thins the fur? I totally disagree with that thought.
When you stretch a hide your just removing the elasticity In the leather and taking up the slack on a stretcher. The fur density stays the same.

Exactly. Like I posted earlier, next time some of you stretch a beaver grab the center of the pelt, or push the pelt up through the leg holes. You will see the pelt never gets totally tight. There is not a grader in this world that can tell the difference in the density of a beaver pelt stretched tight on the edges as opposed to stretched a little looser. By stretching the pelts that are borderline in size I know I get a minimum of $5 more when I stretch them into the next size.

Take two beaver pelts or any pelt if you like and stretch one as tight as you can and stretch the other one just enough to take out the wrinkles-when dry you can easily see the difference and if you run your hand over it Its even more of a pronounced difference.I've spoken with teh graders at FHA on many occasions and they all say you will gain monitarily on pelts by stretching only enough to take out the wrinkles.Grade trumps size except on poor quality pelts.This is why Fox and marten are now stretched on ranch boards which are long and narrow because wide boards thin the fur by overstretching it.Also the reason beaver are stretched oval.Round stretched pulled the fur too wide in the shoulder area thus thinning the fur density per sq.in.You can stretch your fur any way you want and if you are happy with that so be it.I'm not trying to get anyone to change the way that works for them,just giving some background info.You can find all this info and more in publications regularly disseminated by the auction houses.

It just seems strange to me that when I use my vise grips to get that hide to the next line I still have enough slake In the hide to nail the leg holes shut. If the hide was over stretched I would find It hard to believe there would be enough slake to allow me to do this.

I'm going to keep on over stretching my beaver hides It works for me. LOL

The proof is in the paycheck.

I'm no expert....

but is there actually an example photo of a beaver that has been "over-stretched"? Guess I've always heard from people whose opinions I value, that you cannot over-stretch a beaver.

Beaver fur is dense enough I just can't tell a difference if I pull one with the pliers or let it sag.....other than the SIZE.

Perfect example is that the beaver market hasn't been the strongest the past couple seasons. Overstretching would be a PERFECT comment for a country buyer to make to justify his price....and I just haven't heard it. All I was told was you can't pull a beaver too much.

Just my .02 cents.

My opinion is that pulling the beaver too tight will sometimes rip the edge of the pelt when drying. Of course raising it on the nails helps as the nails will tilt inward.

I beleive it is difficult to prove how much if any that it may thin the under fur by pulling too tight. Besides visual and size measuring the beaver is graded for quality by feel of the fur between the shoulders of the pelt. This is where the density of the underfur is checked.

Trappers for the most part, specially if they sell to country buyers, have only seen beaver graded by size, leather color, and visible damage. It takes years of experience to be able to grade fur density by feel.

On a clean skinned late winter beaver a 41" snap measured beaver will measure 66" inside the nails on a NAFA pattern . I mean CLEAN skinned . If you leave grizl on, you won't get it ,just because it looks white doesn't mean it's clean .If you are wipeing oil off while it's drying that should tell you something. I'm not saying any other way is wrong but thats the way the buyers measured and bought green beaver 60 years ago . I never saw a beaver sold in the grease in those days . Of course there was no NAFA in those days or patterns. My buddy justand fleshed 18 ruogh skinned beaver (the first he ever did that way) and we couldn't get the size out of them. I think I know why but won't stick my neck out when I'm not sure .I'll go with Greg and say late winter northern beaver can't be over stretched. I think you're spitting into the wind when you say he's wrong . I'm glad we don't all agree ,this would get boring.

Boco, go ask those same graders at FHA whats paid more on average the last ten years.

A sixty inch c color heavy grade?

Or a sixty five inch c color semi heavy grade?

The truth will set you free.

Steven, I was doing some figuring for the heck of it and last may at nafa it was about a even trade off, at least on mine. A 1x semi or a large heavy was about the same it seemed. Im still going for size as I dont believe Im losing a grade on every beaver I can stretch to make a bigger size. Even if half the beaver you, we will call it over stretch, lose a grade you will still be money ahead.

Once a hide is tanned does it not return to it's original size? Therefor can any hide be over stretched?

I had a mink tanned that measured 28" or better on the stretcher, and came back looking like a good sized female!

Another question for u beaver guys.

Sometimes when I take my beaver off the boards the hair will be matted down, it appears more prounced in the belly area but is definitely across the hole pelt. Before you comb, u can fell little hair balls. If you really work it over with the comb both directions you can get them out, but i am removing hair with bruash. My usually method on putting up beaver, is freeze whole, thaw then skin (60 %I skin right away when dry) then freeze, thaw and flesh and board. I nail down on plywood and lift up pelt on nails.

Why do some get matted? Is it because I didnt try to keep my fleshing beam clean enough and hair soaked up fat juices? Or the fur was not completely dry when skinned (I try to wait till dry) or was the fur underwater too long, a lot of my beaver are under ice? Or just did not do a good enough job combing?

Here it is steve-size

3(lge) IptII B-$40
3 I&II HVY B-$34

3 I-II SEMI B-$24
These are all shearable.
3 I-II FLAT B-$17
A beaver pelt stretched loose at 56 in. would have a far better chance of falling into one of the shearable grades than the same one stretched tight to 59 in.
You will recieve far more shearable grades by boarding your beaver a little loose than the person who stretches it tight.

This is taken directly from the FHA pelt handling manual and I can attest to its accuracy.

Heres some more from NAFA.... Shapes other than oval can cause possible size loss and especially the occurence of overstretching in the back area resulting in a loss of density and possibly grade reduction,especially in fall beaver.

So there you have it boys right from the folks that grade your fur.

Any have any ideas on my question of matted beavers? I would like your opinion

I would assume that the beaver pelt was not completely dry when boarding.Usually a brushing in both directions will remedy this when it comes off the board.There could be other reasons as you said like grease from your beam.I clean skin so cannot comment on that,but some guys that scrape on a beam use sawdust when scraping to keep grease off the fur.

Boco I dont think this is the info I asked you about.

Are the prices you listed for all the same size beaver?

If they are it doesnt tell us a thing.

Now find out what the prices are for a b color 2.

It dont matter what size, what you dont want are beaver graded flat.If you can reach the size cutoff without thinning the fur your Ok.I agree its gonna be ok to pull a winter beaver a bit more, but its the fall beaver that both auctions say you will lose on if you stretch tight.Years ago when I started stretching looser like the auction houses wanted I had very few beaver graded flat,and many beaver were taken from mid Oct,on.

That sure hasn't been my experience.

If you're getting really bad matted fur on coon or beaver, you probably need to wipe your beam down more while fleshing.
You can also lightly spray the finished hide with that orange degreaser and then comb the fur to really make it nice.

The way I was taught is to always leave some slack, especially in the shoulder area.

I don't tan a lot of beaver hides, but they always turn out smaller after tanning, even if not over stetched to start.

Fall beaver are fall beaver, most of them being flat. I fail to see any difference if stretched tight or loose..

It dont matter what size, what you dont want are beaver graded flat.

I can count the number of beaver I have graded flat on my fingers. So I dont worry about that.

So humor me if you will find out what the b color in the 2 size brought.

Here you go steve off my return from the feb sale last year
Size-2...I-II LT C....$21.29
Size-3...I-II HVY C...$28.39
So you can see the smaller ,heavier pelt was worth 25% more money than the flat.

Heres some more
Size-0-I...I-II LT AB $23.32
Size-2.....I-II SEMI C $26.36
So you can see even though the larger pelt in this case is a more desireable color,the smaller C color pelt brought more money because it was one grade higher.
Like someone posted earlier the proof is in the paycheck.

But what you've failed to prove is that stretching tight makes them flat. I've proven to myself that it doesn't. I wish I could find all my old NAFA and FHA receipts.

I dont have to prove anything.The auction houses have disseminated this information,and by following it I have proven to myself by comparing my returns,that this is factual information that can improve your return.Feel free to handle your fur any way you like,I dont care.The auction houses work on commission and I dont think it would be in their intrest to coach trappers to lose money,lol.
Goldy-dig up your income tax returns thats where I found mine.

Boco, why did you only give the difference between a heavy and a select.

Select is pretty much the best of the best. Its kinda like a flat. I get far more selects than flats but I can pretty much tell you before i get done fleshing if it has a chance at select.

2007 at nafa for a xxl Brn semi heavy I got 43, for a xl heavy brn it was 37. Heaven forbid you have a slt damage and you will definitely get more for a bigger size than the next one down. And if yo have a damaged well?

BTW boco, i have had this conversation with Mr. Gibb on more than one occasion.

If you see him ask him if he remembers what he told me the last time we had this go around.

None I gave were select.They were all I-II Next is I then I PTII which are the select.These are Fall beaver and those are the ones that can make or break the grade by stretching strategically.Winter beaver invariably will be shearing grade so can stand an extra stretch,Its the fall beaver that you can make money on,and the 2 3 size especially as on a well managed trapline these usually have no damages or scars.Early caught or bad damaged beavers should be stretched for size as like you said their near worthless anyway nowadays.However lets keep our hopes up for beaver as it looks like it might be on an upswing,and we will all make money again.I stll think I will market my beaver thru FHA I trust their graders better.I dont believe Gibb was a beaver grader.

What i was told a NAFA is that they scan bev pelt so you get paid in sq/in", color,density, so it doesn't make any different round or oval you get paid in sq/in"