Can I treat the den with something
#6335163
09/28/18 07:28 AM
09/28/18 07:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
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OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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That will provide some relief for manged foxes? I saw one come out the other day that wasn't as severe as the one I dispatched, but have no doubt it is just a matter of time before it is.
-Goofy
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335261
09/28/18 09:14 AM
09/28/18 09:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,699 MN
160user
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,699
MN
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Anything a little less expensive? Gasoline, powdered laundry soap and a shot of fuel oil isn't that expensive.
I have nothing clever to put here.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: 160user]
#6335299
09/28/18 09:59 AM
09/28/18 09:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
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OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Anything a little less expensive? Gasoline, powdered laundry soap and a shot of fuel oil isn't that expensive. Can't believe you just shared that.
-Goofy
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: white17]
#6335349
09/28/18 11:18 AM
09/28/18 11:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,490 Eastern Shore of Maryland
bad karma
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,490
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them. That works on lice but I don't know about mange. It might 100% will work on mange mites, however 2 problems: 1). How do you keep the 1st fox along from eating all the baits ? And is there a lethal dose of ivermectin ? 2). There has been some evidence that mange mites can persist in the den in the mild winters we have here. Hobbie: My father and Grandfather had a fool proof way of dealing with dens near the marsh. Call me for details....
Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335353
09/28/18 11:27 AM
09/28/18 11:27 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 20,545 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Green County Wisconsin
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might try Permethrin , it kills the mites that cause mange
powder might work the best dust the den
or mix the liquid like you were treating a dog kennel and be generous with your application at least the cost is low to try a quart which makes about 16 gallons is about 15 dollars at most farm stores.
you could try using oil it might have greater sticking /transfer power from den to fur.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335374
09/28/18 11:53 AM
09/28/18 11:53 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004
williamsburg ks
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Mange mites only live on the host animal. Not in dirt or grass. They cant survive in either. Ivermec is a pretty safe drug. Takes a tremendous amount to cause trouble. Best thing to do is catch them and give a shot if thats doable. I trapped hard around my house two years in a row when coyote mange got bad. Pelted the good ones and gave a shot to the mangy ones and released them. I cant say for sure I efected the mange problem but it was significantly lower the third year. Still dont see a lot of it.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: danny clifton]
#6335376
09/28/18 12:00 PM
09/28/18 12:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,353 western pa
goldnut
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
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western pa
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Mange mites only live on the host animal. Not in dirt or grass. They cant survive in either. Ivermec is a pretty safe drug. Takes a tremendous amount to cause trouble. Best thing to do is catch them and give a shot if thats doable. I trapped hard around my house two years in a row when coyote mange got bad. Pelted the good ones and gave a shot to the mangy ones and released them. I cant say for sure I efected the mange problem but it was significantly lower the third year. Still dont see a lot of it. You say you gave the mangy ones a shot then releasing. Werent you worried about them infecting others before they were cured?
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335385
09/28/18 12:08 PM
09/28/18 12:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004
williamsburg ks
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No. I had no place to quarentine them either. Those mites are dead pretty quick once you inject them. Probably safe to other animals in a few hours. Certainly no more than a few days.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335386
09/28/18 12:09 PM
09/28/18 12:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004
williamsburg ks
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BTW it stays in their system about a month
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: danny clifton]
#6335398
09/28/18 12:23 PM
09/28/18 12:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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SWMo.
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Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them. Mange mites only live on the host animal. Not in dirt or grass. They cant survive in either. Ivermec is a pretty safe drug. Takes a tremendous amount to cause trouble. Best thing to do is catch them and give a shot if thats doable. I trapped hard around my house two years in a row when coyote mange got bad. Pelted the good ones and gave a shot to the mangy ones and released them. I cant say for sure I efected the mange problem but it was significantly lower the third year. Still dont see a lot of it. This. I would do the bait thing, 2 oz piece of meat injected with 2 cc of Ivermectin and scatter a few every couple of days for a week should insure they get enough, I think. That is over doing the dosage in hope it gets ingested and recognizing that some will be wasted. If I trap and inject .5-1cc under the skin at the neck I'd be sure. Or give 1 cc orally. This will also worm them and keep lice and ticks off for about three months. Disclaimer I am not a vet and the above is only a thing that I would try based on my use of the drug with huting dogs and a discussion with a veterinarian. Caution If the canine has heart worm the dead heart worms resulting from the treatment may stop the heart causing death. Caution if the canine is collie or part collie they may die.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335457
09/28/18 01:34 PM
09/28/18 01:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 227 S.W. Ontario. Canada
Don
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S.W. Ontario. Canada
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Dog dose of Cattle Ivomec is .1 cc per 10 lbs. 20 cc is good for 200 lbs. You must have big fox.
"Common sense, is uncommon, anymore"
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335458
09/28/18 01:41 PM
09/28/18 01:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,353 western pa
goldnut
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western pa
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Interesting info here. I just thought that they would be spreading this in the den where they would be close to each other.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335585
09/28/18 04:35 PM
09/28/18 04:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
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williamsburg ks
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Lot of misinformation out there. they ONLY lay eggs under the skin of a host. They are host specific. Fox mites don't infect dogs or coyotes and vice versa. No eggs are lain in dirt or grass or anyplace except under the skin of a host animal.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: danny clifton]
#6335663
09/28/18 06:32 PM
09/28/18 06:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,589 Wheaton Ks
lee steinmeyer
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Wheaton Ks
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Lot of misinformation out there. they ONLY lay eggs under the skin of a host. They are host specific. Fox mites don't infect dogs or coyotes and vice versa. No eggs are lain in dirt or grass or anyplace except under the skin of a host animal.
X2 what Danny says. That is what I know about mange also. I wish I knew more about the life cycle of the lice that have been infesting yotes. It is a wide spread problem, that seems to be getting worse. There is very limited info out there about lice, and I really don't enjoy throwing away half of my catch.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: lee steinmeyer]
#6335688
09/28/18 07:25 PM
09/28/18 07:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 339 Hayward Wi
19disbre
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Hayward Wi
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Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them. this should work well or ivermectin horse paste
Goals for the 2018-2019 Season
'Rats /100 Mink /5 Beaver /50 Coyote 0/10 R Fox 0/5 G Fox 0/5
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6335707
09/28/18 07:58 PM
09/28/18 07:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,177 Oakland, MS
Drifter
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Have to wonder after the actions of our dogs when getting oral doses of it if a fox will eat a bait that has been injected. They won't eat a cow after being injected with antibiotics.
Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.
Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic
Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: tjm]
#6336097
09/29/18 09:57 AM
09/29/18 09:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,133 USA MN
Snowpa
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Goldnut, they would just about need to rub each other or lay down together for the mites to transfer. Likely that the mites will be dead before that happens and also likely that without the treatment they would spread the mites. I have read that the mites can live less than about 24 off the animal, maybe less than 12 hours, with out the animals body heat. So there is little likelihood of the mites spreading from a bed or from a dead animal.
Contaminated dens last for years
Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6336128
09/29/18 10:52 AM
09/29/18 10:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 46,965 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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james bay frontierOnt.
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The best way to prevent natures diseases from thinning out overpopulated animals is to manage the numbers through trapping. Seen mange on my line once in 34 years in fox,when I first got the line. Wolves have shown up with the chewing lice from time to time.When more trappers were taking wolves in the past the lice was rare in wolves.Now because of so many vacant traplines in the North,it can be a problem since wolves range so far,it takes more than one trapper to manage them on the landscape.
Last edited by Boco; 09/29/18 10:57 AM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6336348
09/29/18 05:56 PM
09/29/18 05:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004
williamsburg ks
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no mites in dens for days let alone years. one shot of ivomec is a cure.
there is a type of mange dogs get when they are allergic to their own skin mites. we all have skin mites living on us eating dead skin. that allergy in dogs requires a constant treatment of allergic symptoms. that however is not the sarcoptic mange that ruins fur and eventually causes the death of the host animal.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6336368
09/29/18 06:26 PM
09/29/18 06:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 46,965 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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Mange doesn't always kill the animal.The fur council had a nice wolf pelt in their fur kit,and a scrapbook full of pictures of the same wolf when it was collared a couple years earlier by the MNR.At the time it was collared it was bad with mange.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: danny clifton]
#6336381
09/29/18 06:39 PM
09/29/18 06:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613 Northern Missouri
Northmocats
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Northern Missouri
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no mites in dens for days let alone years. one shot of ivomec is a cure.
there is a type of mange dogs get when they are allergic to their own skin mites. we all have skin mites living on us eating dead skin. that allergy in dogs requires a constant treatment of allergic symptoms. that however is not the sarcoptic mange that ruins fur and eventually causes the death of the host animal. My buddy had a dog like that he treated and treated without any success. Must have been that allergy .. I see hairless coyotes in the Dead of winter some def find a way to survive . See them up around hay piles alot.
Last edited by Northmocats; 09/29/18 06:40 PM.
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6336386
09/29/18 06:48 PM
09/29/18 06:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004
williamsburg ks
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if your dog develops the allergic reaction mange a vet can give a shot every month or so that will provide relief. wife has a little lap dog that will drive you nuts scratching and biting herself without those allergy shots
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6336390
09/29/18 06:57 PM
09/29/18 06:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,589 Wheaton Ks
lee steinmeyer
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trapper
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Posts: 17,589
Wheaton Ks
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I've seen yotes die down to a very small population twice in my life. Both times, it killed the pups in the dens and shortly after they started moving. But I have caught a lot of old coyotes that have the scars from having the mange, and in some cases were in the process of growing their fur back. They are survivers! Now fox.....not so much. Fox get scarcoptic mange, they are DOA.
Now the lice, I have seen yotes clean up from year to year. About four years ago, all I was catching was yotes with lice. I quit on them by thanksgiving, they were so infested. The next year, I didn't catch a single one with lice. Last season, I threw half of the catch away in Ks, and a third in SD. I wish some studys would be done to find out a lot more of how it is propagated, where it comes from in the environment. If you google chewing lice, it just tells what they are but doesn't address they're interaction with canines. It is a wide spread problem that little is actually known about. It has been around for years though, as I saw it back thirty to fourty years ago, but at that time, I thought it was mange that hadn't gotten bad yet! We always called a coyote with a fur problem....mangy!
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6336394
09/29/18 07:01 PM
09/29/18 07:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,004
williamsburg ks
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you would think someone would create a fashion trend out of thin pink haired in the crotch coyotes
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Can I treat the den with something
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6336395
09/29/18 07:01 PM
09/29/18 07:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613 Northern Missouri
Northmocats
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2015
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Northern Missouri
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The lice is also a problem over here Lee , they get real thin in neck and shoulders? ^ and pink inside the legs
Last edited by Northmocats; 09/29/18 07:03 PM.
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