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Can I treat the den with something #6335163
09/28/18 07:28 AM
09/28/18 07:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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That will provide some relief for manged foxes?

I saw one come out the other day that wasn't as severe as the one I dispatched, but have no doubt it is just a matter of time before it is.



-Goofy
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335214
09/28/18 08:17 AM
09/28/18 08:17 AM
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Posts: 3,155
Michigan
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Michigan
Napalm?


When life gets me down..... you know hunting/trapping season is closed.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335222
09/28/18 08:27 AM
09/28/18 08:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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Anything a little less expensive?


-Goofy
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335224
09/28/18 08:30 AM
09/28/18 08:30 AM
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
bad karma Offline
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Foo Gas.


Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335226
09/28/18 08:34 AM
09/28/18 08:34 AM
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Wheaton Ks
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lee steinmeyer Offline
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Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them.


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

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Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335261
09/28/18 09:14 AM
09/28/18 09:14 AM
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Posts: 19,699
MN
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160user Offline
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Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
Anything a little less expensive?


Gasoline, powdered laundry soap and a shot of fuel oil isn't that expensive.


I have nothing clever to put here.





Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: 160user] #6335299
09/28/18 09:59 AM
09/28/18 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: 160user
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
Anything a little less expensive?


Gasoline, powdered laundry soap and a shot of fuel oil isn't that expensive.


Can't believe you just shared that.


-Goofy
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: lee steinmeyer] #6335312
09/28/18 10:17 AM
09/28/18 10:17 AM
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McGrath, AK
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Originally Posted By: lee steinmeyer
Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them.


That works on lice but I don't know about mange. It might


Mean As Nails
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: white17] #6335349
09/28/18 11:18 AM
09/28/18 11:18 AM
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Originally Posted By: white17
Originally Posted By: lee steinmeyer
Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them.


That works on lice but I don't know about mange. It might


100% will work on mange mites, however 2 problems:
1). How do you keep the 1st fox along from eating all the baits ? And is there a lethal dose of ivermectin ?
2). There has been some evidence that mange mites can persist in the den in the mild winters we have here.

Hobbie: My father and Grandfather had a fool proof way of dealing with dens near the marsh. Call me for details....


Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335353
09/28/18 11:27 AM
09/28/18 11:27 AM
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Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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might try Permethrin , it kills the mites that cause mange

powder might work the best dust the den

or mix the liquid like you were treating a dog kennel and be generous with your application at least the cost is low to try a quart which makes about 16 gallons is about 15 dollars at most farm stores.

you could try using oil it might have greater sticking /transfer power from den to fur.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335374
09/28/18 11:53 AM
09/28/18 11:53 AM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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Mange mites only live on the host animal. Not in dirt or grass. They cant survive in either. Ivermec is a pretty safe drug. Takes a tremendous amount to cause trouble. Best thing to do is catch them and give a shot if thats doable. I trapped hard around my house two years in a row when coyote mange got bad. Pelted the good ones and gave a shot to the mangy ones and released them. I cant say for sure I efected the mange problem but it was significantly lower the third year. Still dont see a lot of it.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: danny clifton] #6335376
09/28/18 12:00 PM
09/28/18 12:00 PM
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western pa
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goldnut Online content
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Originally Posted By: danny clifton
Mange mites only live on the host animal. Not in dirt or grass. They cant survive in either. Ivermec is a pretty safe drug. Takes a tremendous amount to cause trouble. Best thing to do is catch them and give a shot if thats doable. I trapped hard around my house two years in a row when coyote mange got bad. Pelted the good ones and gave a shot to the mangy ones and released them. I cant say for sure I efected the mange problem but it was significantly lower the third year. Still dont see a lot of it.


You say you gave the mangy ones a shot then releasing. Werent you worried about them infecting others before they were cured?



Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335385
09/28/18 12:08 PM
09/28/18 12:08 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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No. I had no place to quarentine them either. Those mites are dead pretty quick once you inject them. Probably safe to other animals in a few hours. Certainly no more than a few days.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335386
09/28/18 12:09 PM
09/28/18 12:09 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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BTW it stays in their system about a month


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: danny clifton] #6335398
09/28/18 12:23 PM
09/28/18 12:23 PM
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SWMo.
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tjm Offline
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SWMo.
Originally Posted By: lee steinmeyer
Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them.
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
Mange mites only live on the host animal. Not in dirt or grass. They cant survive in either. Ivermec is a pretty safe drug. Takes a tremendous amount to cause trouble. Best thing to do is catch them and give a shot if thats doable. I trapped hard around my house two years in a row when coyote mange got bad. Pelted the good ones and gave a shot to the mangy ones and released them. I cant say for sure I efected the mange problem but it was significantly lower the third year. Still dont see a lot of it.



This. I would do the bait thing, 2 oz piece of meat injected with 2 cc of Ivermectin and scatter a few every couple of days for a week should insure they get enough, I think. That is over doing the dosage in hope it gets ingested and recognizing that some will be wasted.
If I trap and inject .5-1cc under the skin at the neck I'd be sure. Or give 1 cc orally.
This will also worm them and keep lice and ticks off for about three months. Disclaimer I am not a vet and the above is only a thing that I would try based on my use of the drug with huting dogs and a discussion with a veterinarian. Caution If the canine has heart worm the dead heart worms resulting from the treatment may stop the heart causing death. Caution if the canine is collie or part collie they may die.

Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335407
09/28/18 12:32 PM
09/28/18 12:32 PM
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SWMo.
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tjm Offline
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Goldnut, they would just about need to rub each other or lay down together for the mites to transfer. Likely that the mites will be dead before that happens and also likely that without the treatment they would spread the mites. I have read that the mites can live less than about 24 off the animal, maybe less than 12 hours, with out the animals body heat. So there is little likelihood of the mites spreading from a bed or from a dead animal.

Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335457
09/28/18 01:34 PM
09/28/18 01:34 PM
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S.W. Ontario. Canada
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Don Offline
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Dog dose of Cattle Ivomec is .1 cc per 10 lbs. 20 cc is good for 200 lbs. You must have big fox.


"Common sense, is uncommon, anymore"
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335458
09/28/18 01:41 PM
09/28/18 01:41 PM
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western pa
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Interesting info here. I just thought that they would be spreading this in the den where they would be close to each other.



Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335545
09/28/18 03:47 PM
09/28/18 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,490
Eastern Shore of Maryland
bad karma Offline
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Gentlemen, the mites die without heat but the mite eggs can survive longer.


Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335574
09/28/18 04:25 PM
09/28/18 04:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,160
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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Most likely any treatment of the den would spook them off?


-Goofy
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335585
09/28/18 04:35 PM
09/28/18 04:35 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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Lot of misinformation out there. they ONLY lay eggs under the skin of a host. They are host specific. Fox mites don't infect dogs or coyotes and vice versa. No eggs are lain in dirt or grass or anyplace except under the skin of a host animal.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: danny clifton] #6335663
09/28/18 06:32 PM
09/28/18 06:32 PM
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Wheaton Ks
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lee steinmeyer Offline
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Originally Posted By: danny clifton
Lot of misinformation out there. they ONLY lay eggs under the skin of a host. They are host specific. Fox mites don't infect dogs or coyotes and vice versa. No eggs are lain in dirt or grass or anyplace except under the skin of a host animal.


X2 what Danny says. That is what I know about mange also.

I wish I knew more about the life cycle of the lice that have been infesting yotes. It is a wide spread problem, that seems to be getting worse. There is very limited info out there about lice, and I really don't enjoy throwing away half of my catch.


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

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Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: lee steinmeyer] #6335688
09/28/18 07:25 PM
09/28/18 07:25 PM
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Hayward Wi
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Originally Posted By: lee steinmeyer
Drop baits in the area with Ivermectin in them.


this should work well or ivermectin horse paste


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Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6335707
09/28/18 07:58 PM
09/28/18 07:58 PM
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Oakland, MS
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Have to wonder after the actions of our dogs when getting oral doses of it if a fox will eat a bait that has been injected. They won't eat a cow after being injected with antibiotics.


Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.

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Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: tjm] #6336097
09/29/18 09:57 AM
09/29/18 09:57 AM
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USA MN
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Originally Posted By: tjm
Goldnut, they would just about need to rub each other or lay down together for the mites to transfer. Likely that the mites will be dead before that happens and also likely that without the treatment they would spread the mites. I have read that the mites can live less than about 24 off the animal, maybe less than 12 hours, with out the animals body heat. So there is little likelihood of the mites spreading from a bed or from a dead animal.




Contaminated dens last for years


Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336128
09/29/18 10:52 AM
09/29/18 10:52 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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The best way to prevent natures diseases from thinning out overpopulated animals is to manage the numbers through trapping.
Seen mange on my line once in 34 years in fox,when I first got the line.
Wolves have shown up with the chewing lice from time to time.When more trappers were taking wolves in the past the lice was rare in wolves.Now because of so many vacant traplines in the North,it can be a problem since wolves range so far,it takes more than one trapper to manage them on the landscape.

Last edited by Boco; 09/29/18 10:57 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336144
09/29/18 11:12 AM
09/29/18 11:12 AM
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Northern Missouri
Northmocats Offline
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Northern Missouri
Get a few here with it. They get taken care of.
Eliminate the ones that are spreading it.
IMO it would take a series of treatments to get rid of it, even then extreme cases are hard to rid.

Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336348
09/29/18 05:56 PM
09/29/18 05:56 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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no mites in dens for days let alone years. one shot of ivomec is a cure.

there is a type of mange dogs get when they are allergic to their own skin mites. we all have skin mites living on us eating dead skin. that allergy in dogs requires a constant treatment of allergic symptoms. that however is not the sarcoptic mange that ruins fur and eventually causes the death of the host animal.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336368
09/29/18 06:26 PM
09/29/18 06:26 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Mange doesn't always kill the animal.The fur council had a nice wolf pelt in their fur kit,and a scrapbook full of pictures of the same wolf when it was collared a couple years earlier by the MNR.At the time it was collared it was bad with mange.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: danny clifton] #6336381
09/29/18 06:39 PM
09/29/18 06:39 PM
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Northern Missouri
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Originally Posted By: danny clifton
no mites in dens for days let alone years. one shot of ivomec is a cure.

there is a type of mange dogs get when they are allergic to their own skin mites. we all have skin mites living on us eating dead skin. that allergy in dogs requires a constant treatment of allergic symptoms. that however is not the sarcoptic mange that ruins fur and eventually causes the death of the host animal.



My buddy had a dog like that he treated and treated without any success. Must have been that allergy ..
I see hairless coyotes in the Dead of winter some def find a way to survive . See them up around hay piles alot.

Last edited by Northmocats; 09/29/18 06:40 PM.
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336386
09/29/18 06:48 PM
09/29/18 06:48 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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if your dog develops the allergic reaction mange a vet can give a shot every month or so that will provide relief. wife has a little lap dog that will drive you nuts scratching and biting herself without those allergy shots


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336390
09/29/18 06:57 PM
09/29/18 06:57 PM
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Wheaton Ks
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lee steinmeyer Offline
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Wheaton Ks
I've seen yotes die down to a very small population twice in my life. Both times, it killed the pups in the dens and shortly after they started moving. But I have caught a lot of old coyotes that have the scars from having the mange, and in some cases were in the process of growing their fur back. They are survivers! Now fox.....not so much. Fox get scarcoptic mange, they are DOA.

Now the lice, I have seen yotes clean up from year to year. About four years ago, all I was catching was yotes with lice. I quit on them by thanksgiving, they were so infested. The next year, I didn't catch a single one with lice. Last season, I threw half of the catch away in Ks, and a third in SD. I wish some studys would be done to find out a lot more of how it is propagated, where it comes from in the environment. If you google chewing lice, it just tells what they are but doesn't address they're interaction with canines. It is a wide spread problem that little is actually known about. It has been around for years though, as I saw it back thirty to fourty years ago, but at that time, I thought it was mange that hadn't gotten bad yet! We always called a coyote with a fur problem....mangy!


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

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Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336394
09/29/18 07:01 PM
09/29/18 07:01 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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you would think someone would create a fashion trend out of thin pink haired in the crotch coyotes


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can I treat the den with something [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6336395
09/29/18 07:01 PM
09/29/18 07:01 PM
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Northern Missouri
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The lice is also a problem over here Lee , they get real thin in neck and shoulders? ^ and pink inside the legs

Last edited by Northmocats; 09/29/18 07:03 PM.
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