i have been wanting to give this post a whirl for several reasons and i hope it does not turn into the " what is the best bait for ???" i also do not want this post to turn into a bashing post of any one person or the "i've been trapping for ???? yrs" therefore it is gospel. we all know there are some very talented individuals on this site so it should be left at that and that there are also some new tappers that are doing well.

now when it comes to the commercial lures i've bougth i have to say that i have been a little dissapointed for a couple of reasons. the first is the inconsistancy in smell. i took several hrs one day with another tman member and we started comparing the smells of the lures and baits we had bought from the commercial vendors. we compared 18 different lures and we had 36 different smells.....also we had several different lures that smelled virtually identical. now before i go any farther with that being said........ how can i rely on a products performance from year to year.
another reason for being a little dissapointed is that in the area i trap i have not had very good success with the commercial stuff...... i can almost read it now location, location,, location, which is no doubt fundamental in trapping but wouldn't or shouldn't a GREAT lure or bait help over come all the things that even the best tappers fail at when making sets.
i have also been using bait and lure from tasteslikechicken and huntinglonewolf which are tman members and have had very good success with their products, matter of fact i have caught all but 1 predator with there stuff this year and i have been setting 50/50 with private makers and commercial makers. one thing i noticed about there bait and lure is that its smell is like nothing i have bought from a commercial vendor... the bait doesn't have that classic taint smell but an ....... easy, edible smell. the bait that tlc makes is a potpouri of smells that keeps you guessing as to what is in it and it works well, i've made 3 sets with and caught a bobcat and a fox and have had no grinners in the sets LOL....
huntinglonewolfes all call cat and yote lures smell like a cat or k-9 which i would think should be the name of the game, i've made 5 sets with his product and have caught 3 yotes and a cat. there is no skunky smell which IMO here where i'm at is worthless.

i am not giving up on the commercial baits and lures but from what i've seen they cannot and do not hold a candle to the two private baits i've been using. it could be my locations are not exact, it could be that the wind was not right, maybe the other sets had some contamination bla! bla! bla! but the fact of the matter is these two guys baits and lures have overcome those things if any and filled the steel.

oh yeah!! for the 1.5 bridger guys (or the haters) the cat i caught yesterday was caught in a bridger 1.5.......no anchored in it! i took some advice that most find controversial and moved the trap to the lip of the hole and caught her high by both front feet, i honestly didn't think that you could fit two cat feet in a 1.5 LOL....... as for the bait in the hole it was tasteslikechicken in the hole and cat lure from huntinglonewolf of the backing.

ouch...my eyes and brain! Thats alot of writing!

Heck, use whatever works. I think that lure from a private maker would definitly be better, obiously its made with some TLC and the lure maker would take much pride in his product, where I can see a commercial lure maker maybe getting a bit sloppy on the quality and more interested in the quanity of the lure he is making.
bottom line...use what works!
goodluck

yes it is alot of typing LOL....

i also feel that you would have much tighter control when the product being sold is not being produced in massive volumes and i agree use what works.
but say for a maybe a new trapper or if in an area that sees alot of pressure why not try something new and completely different or maybe even an experienced trapper changing it up a bit.

There are other variables that can affect success with different lures.

An example is one I've stated on here many times in the past. Dad was a pretty decent trapper, however, he could not get Carman's lures to produce for him. Its not because the lure inferior, because it has been a proven producer for many trappers over the years. I had great success with Carman's lures. This was trapping in the same places, not separate areas.

Dad had great success with Stechnecki Lures, and I couldn't do squat with them. Again, it wasn't the lure that caused the difference.

What's the answer? I dunno. Dad and I discussed it at length and we couldn't come up with a solution.

In my opinion, commercial lure makers will have more consistant lures, because they are done in large quantities with the same sources for the ingredients, year after year. Making small batches of lures makes it difficult to reproduce the same smell, color and viscosity batch after batch. Small variations in quantities of an ingredient will have a larger affect on the lure's smell, color and consistancy. Therefore, small batches require very precise measuring to make one batch just like the previous batches.

There's my couple of cents - lol.

that is very intersting for one person to have success with a certain lure and another might as well throw it away.

but for conversation sake i guess i can't imagine how making 1,000 cakes would be more consistant than say making 10. i work in a production environment and although the product has great consistancy the perameters are larger due to the different variables that go into the products, but i would suppose for this to be true for the two different items being produced we should compare apples to apples.

It's just like buying sausage or beer. Some guys like store bought....some swear by gourmet brands...others make their own. Everyone has their favorite.

For me.... it's simple...I use what works BEST for me. That's why I developed those lures you are using. They outproduced the "factory made" lures hands down...in my applications.

Glad you are enjoying my products and they are producing for you!

I think certain lures can be made by virtually anyone, like a red fox gland lure. I also think certain blended lures, example: Asa's All Call lures, need a pretty disciplined formula to produce the same texture and smell year after year... just my 2 cents. I make some and buy some, both work.

I use my own lures and bait as I have tried serveral right beside them and always have better luck with mine then anyone elses. I for one no what's in mine. trap runner sounds like you are doing good. Here is another cat I picked up today with my bait and cat gland lure.

nice cat huntinglonewolf

sethc

You're gonna have a lot of people pm'ing you for some of that bait/lure.

LOL livetrap, I think that's the general idea for the post.

I'm not selling no bait and lure Paul, I need all I got for the rest of the season..

Hang on Boss, I have to check forum rules on if this is ok or not. Stand by...

So..... lonewolf, let's talk about getting some of that lure out to california for thorough testing. I'll take what Yancy doesn't use.

Don't have any to get rid of. Lot of season left.

Ditto Paul,I agree...

I find this interesting to say the least and the length of the topic does not deter me in the least. I have trapped for over half a century with a great number of lures. Most have been commercial lures and some have been small operation batches. I have used lures that other guys swear by and have been disappointed and I have had great success with lures that others say are junk. I caught my first fox, coon and rat and mink on Hawbaker's Lures but to tell the truth it was all they sold at the local store we bought our lures at. I did better every year with Hawbaker's and still have a near stockpile of 500, 700 and 800 for fox. But I am a dabbler and a curious gent and have tried others. My lure cabinet is stockpiled with lures from many diferent makers I try from time to time. Some with success and some without but the ones that work give me confidence in that lure which causes me to use it more frequently. I believe confidence is a big factor. When Russ Carman started in my area when I was young I could not catch a cold standing in the pond in december with his lures.(not your fault Russ)...today I use his pro choice with regularity because down the line I tried it and it worked. I have confidence in itand several other lures he makes.

Secondly, we all trap in areas that have totally different habitats, exposure to humans, etc. These areas also hold varying populations of animals and also have different amounts of human pressure. Now I know from Marty's (huntinglonewolf) posting he is a highly successful trapper and I will in no way demean him or his effort for I know he works very hard at what he does but does he have the populations of target species that a guy in northeast PA has and does he face the number of other trappers, hunters and outdoor loving populations this person would. I know we have pockets out east too and Zagman does well in NY in his region but would he be as successful everywhere in NY. I guess what I am saying here is that lure use and success cannot be scientifically compared with all these variables such as populations of animals, human populations using the area, etc. All good luremakers keep meticulous records and they are faced with disappearing ingredients too causing changes. I bought a big jar of gray fox lure from someone on trap shed last summer...enough for my lifetime but it works out here for me just fine and I know this guy is not a world renowned lure manufacturer.I will use his lure because it has worked for me and I have faith in it.


whenever we do a comparison of lures or thier smells or their success, to be fair, we must do it scientifically and by scientific method. Simply put we have to experiment testing one and only variable at a time and that variable would be the one lure........all other things must remain the same or constant..they are called controls..same sets, same target species, same populations of critters, same weather, same trap size, same temperatures, etc. If all things remain the same and the lures being tested is the variable. Then the comparison would be fair and the data would allow us to compare apples to apples.

By now you are saying this guy is nuts and we cannot do that and then you are seeing the difficulty comparing lures and their success and faulure. They are a tool and an aid but if they sucked in every passing animal like some adds make you think they do we would all have full fur sheds or there would be nothing left to trap. Just the way this old fool sees it.............Mac~

my .02---for 35 yrs.of trapping I can honestly say I have used just about every lure out there. Almost every different brand of say fox gland lure is different than the rest. Some might smell almost the same as another but not 100%. Same goes for food type lures. Walkingstick stated about confidence playing a big role, I agree whole heartedly. I also have made home made lures and am getting better at it but still rely on "store bought". Again just my .02. Dan.

walkingstick2 I agree with what you posted. I use to use alot of james mast and russ carmen lures till I bought some nelson soulution from brian roberts and mixed it with some ground bobcat meat. Then Bob wendt sent me a copy of his nelson bait soulution receipe and I made a bunch of it and mixed it with the bobcat meat and have had excellent success with it and I always put 2 sets at every location and have tried several differnt lures and baits in one of the sets and mine in the other and have had far better results with the bait and lure I have made. There is a guy on here who came down and set traps with me for a couple days and he used other lures and I used mine and in 2 weeks I caught 4 cats and 23 coyotes compared to his 1 coyote. We made the same sets and same traps. He just used other lure and baits. I went and redid all his sets and lured and baited with my stuff and started picking up coyotes. That is why I use my lures and bait as it works good. No I don't have any for sale.

I want to add this to the thread. For years I thought location, location, location for trapping. After getting the video camera out this year I learned two things. (1)I already know the location, so (2) for me it came to lure. I found that lures that other traps taking piles of fur on would run some of my critters off or other brands would bring in non targets. I tested my own lure which I have used for a number of years and found with the videos that fox would circle many times before committing. I found that one brand lure would drive fox nuts to get to the set while another brand would bring them in and keep them coming back for more. I have all but given up on making my own lure as I am hobby trapper and love and want to trap not make lure. I believe in the commerical lure for the reason Paul stated about batchs.

more food for thought

I rermeber night crappie fishing through the ice....three people...six holes and six rods all baited the same, same line, jig, bait. we even pull them onto ice and measure depths...one guy cannot buy a fish while the others are reeling them in...switch rods, switch holes results do not change........HOW COME?

years ago rersearch was being done with an amino acid called L-Serine and its varrying amounts present in people. At the time it was believed the level of L-Serine caused the fish to shy away from one persons bait and hit anothers...

I know we all have seen where one guy seems to out do all the others fishing. If there is merit to this can it also be a factor in trapping..can the odor of one person be so repulsive to a canine that.....................


God gave me the ability to think and sometimes it gets me in trouble but this is a possibility. I believe that one persons lure can outperform anothers. To that there is no doubt.

Marty, funny you should mention Jim Mast...I used his lures too...from California

His cat lures were really great.

my dad [WAYNE DERRICK{G MAN}] MAKES BATE[LURE]. i know how hard it is to make bate that works. some work in summer some will work winter, and some wont work at all. the thing is that indaviduals put alot of time and effort into them. like dad he has been making a living with his bate for alot of years. when big companies buy a formula then mass produce it.with no knowledge of how it[the bate]works best. thay are after your money. not saying that some of the bate dont work most of thjese are old NELSON formulas.

Walkingstick2 - As I was checking my line I was thinking about this same thing today. In the past I have known guys who have taken up canine trapping and started taking numbers of fox right off the bat. This was years ago but they could catch them fox using sloppy habits, set construction, not pay any attention to scent, using the same techniques and sets I was using, same lures, etc. Even way back then I started to think that the foxes just don't smell him or maybe he has some type of smell that don't scare them. I dunno - but I thing there may be some validity to this theory.

Mark

sorry to burst to your bubble mr. dobbins but the post was not intended to market the private makers bait LOL... on a serious note i pm'd both the gentleman and asked if i could use their names associated with their bates as a comparison for the commercial bait/lure i also have been using. but hey, IMO if they get some business out of it good for them.

i really appreciate everyones posts and the reasoning that went along with their train of thoughts, there was some really good stuff. i found it very informative and saw alot more different variables about trapping that i never really thought about. heck the more i think about it.... it varies from property to property that i trap..

thanks

No bubbles were injured here. It looked like what I said. That's all.

It certainly has been a good commercial

No offense to anyone but word of mouth probably started a lot of bussiness's with a good product....also competition should make everyone work harder to keep their product at the top...it is good. If some trapper like huntinglonewolf is doing very well trapping using his own lure r bait then sooner or later the guys who want to copy this success will be wanting some....we still operate that way and always did. So yes it was a good commercial...on the flip side I have seen Marty openly share his altered Nelson recipe and tell how he made his bait on open forums. Doesn't seem to me like a guy hiding secret recipes.....Mac~

That is correct. I have posted it several times trying to help people out with making it. I have made it the last 3 years and for me I know it works great.

I been around a little while myself and tried probably more commercial lures and baits than most people, as well as made many different lures.

Variables occur for many reasons. Like mentioned, some ingredient maker happens to change something. Perhaps a year or more of age on the same lure mix, and on and on.

Results can change with different individuals for different reasons as well. Most have already been mentioned right down to the confidence factor.

However, bouncing around the nation and trapping in many different areas, I have slowly been convincing myself that the type of vegetation in different areas has more to do with lure effectiveness than the usual thoughts of heat, humidity, soil texture, or abuse of odors by other trappers in the general area. Like all trappers, this theory came to me slowly, and I will quickly admit that it is only a theory, or personal thought with only some personal experience to justify the idea.

Interesting posts. Walter Arnold, a name probably not recognized by most young trappers today, wrote just about the same thing that Paul Dobbins explained. For some unknown reason, different formulas work differently for different folks. And that can be found in some of his writing that was composed before most posting on this thread were born. LOL

One interesting peace of information concerning lures and lure making was handed to me by James Lucero. In a brief note attached to one of his brochures, he explained that he thought many lure makers got carried away with lures that have a large number of ingredients, instead of just compounding a solid lure. Just something I thought I would share.

God Bless and take care

Mac

For those that say location is all that is important, they have never did any real experiments with lures or trapped enough numbers to make an accurate comparison. It is really difficult to pin point catch ratio percentages unless one has trapped hundreds of animal per season. Then they can easily see a numbers increase or decrease of say 30% one way or another depending upon what lure formulas they are using. Sure, location is essential as the #1 prerequisite or one will catch nothing but the difference in lure formulations is probably the #2 most important factor at least in trapping canines and cats. I have thouroughly tested at least 40 formulas over the years, many of them provided to me by some of North America's most productive trappers. I have tested lures that sounded good at face value knowledge about lure ingredients that produced nearly zero activity at sets to some that caused intense activity. Sometimes the only difference was one ingredient or the amount of that ingredient in the lure. An excellent ingredient would be found and tested that did great things so human nature would say that if a little is good some extra would be better. That theory does no apply to trapping lures with animals that can smell 400+ times better than we can. I have seen the doubleing of good attracting ingredients turn the results to near zero. Novice lure makers it seems are always attempting to seek or produce the world's strongest lures in the belief that they can call animal's long distance or in the belief that all set walk-bys didn't smell the milder lure. In actuality, a stronger formula may call a few extra animals in closer but it is a stand-off as milder lures generally get more intense reactions and less set avoidance. Proper location with a limited amount of milder lure applied to the set will most always come out #1 in the long run. I don't believe in skimping on lures but neither do they have to be overdone. I used to know an old-time red fox trapper from Crystal Michigan that sent me his harvest pictures every season, ranging from 80 to 120 red fox. He told me that he used ONE 1 OZ BOTTLE of Fox Super All Call per season for 50 consecutive years, no bait, no urine, only a dab the size of a bb. Personally, I would be a little hesitant and uncomfortable to skimp that far but it does prove that most of us probably use lures excessively rather than learn to hone locations, learn more about the animals we persue, pay more attention to detail and use a good lure as the final tool. When I read that some reputable lures work for one but not for others I find that hard to believe. I may be wrong but I think its simply in how thay are using and applying that particular lure, not in the trappers chemical make-up clashing with the particular lure formula.
No, this isn't a commercial, just things I have been thinking as I've read this forum for 10 years. Asa

Very Interesting reading here...All I know is In my neck of the woods here in Indiana Lenon's lures works well on Coyote, and Hawbakers works really well on fox..I've tried many others, but not enough to form an opinion yet...still playing around..

Does anyone remeber the great govt. trapper from colorado springs Richard Hanes from back in the early 70s through the 80s.

I use Dobbins, Lenons, Jameson's, Fox Hollow, and I make a few lures myself. I catch animals with all of them. I am constantly swithing up lures, and will put mine in the hole as quick as anyone else's. Making lure is alot of time and work. I have spent the same amount of time and care on lures that did not produce as I did on lures that were great producers. I play around with it because it's fun to me, and it's a good feeling catching animals on something I made. I will always buy commercial lures, but will always be dable in different lure formulas on my own also. It is definitely cheaper to buy it.

Bottomline that quote could have came out of my mouth and not been anymore true, like you read my mind.