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Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. #1302671
04/12/09 01:32 PM
04/12/09 01:32 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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Just like Dalton McGuinty wanting to keep the
'Lord's Prayer' out of The Ontario Legislature, for the same reasons.
What a gutless wonder he has turned out to be.

This is by a daughter of a murdered couple in TORONTO who
had a Bible and Bookstore on Bloor Street.

When I had to testify at the murder trial of my parents a
week ago, I was asked to raise my right hand.

The bailiff started out, 'Do you swear to tell the
truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the truth ? I stood there
and waited but she said nothing more.

She said, 'Do you?' I was so stunned I blurted out,
'What happened to 'so help me God?' She came back with 'Do you?'

I replied yes, but I was perplexed. Then the judge said,
'You can say that if you want to.' I stopped, raised my right hand and
finished with 'so help me God!'

I told my son and daughter that when it came time for them
to testify, They should do the same. It's no wonder we have so many
problems in this country.

If I'd had my wits about me, I'd have told them
that taking God out of the courtroom is only going to result in more Criminals and murderers like him being in there.

I don't know what can be done about it, but it's
time we stepped up and did something.

CBC this morning had a poll on this question. They had the
highest number of responses that they have ever had for one of their polls
and the percentage was the same as this: 86% to keep the words; 14% against.

That is a pretty commanding public response. I was asked to Send this on if
I agreed or delete if I didn't. Now it is your turn. It said that
85% of CANADIANS believe in God.

Why do 14% of the population dictate to the rest of us who answer to a higher & greater authority then the Judge get to remove His Righteousness from our courts?



Are you so cynical and hard-hearted that you don't believe God will hear people when they call Gods name?

For me , the courts will never get the respect from me that God would.


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1302741
04/12/09 02:21 PM
04/12/09 02:21 PM
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I see they also took the "in GOD we trust" off the silver dollar. And people wonder why things are going in the direction they are. Take God out of our plans and he will take us out of his.

Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: Calvin] #1302783
04/12/09 03:05 PM
04/12/09 03:05 PM
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James Offline
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The point of the courtroom oath is not to praise God -- any god.

The point is to get the witness to swear to tell the truth -- to swear to or on something he or she BELIEVES in.

Take an atheist, make him swear by God to tell the truth, and it doesn't mean anything to him. He might later say he didn't have to tell the truth because there is no God.

So I think you're missing the point here, Mira. We want witnesses to swear to tell the truth, not to praise God, in the courtroom.

Jim


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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1302819
04/12/09 03:41 PM
04/12/09 03:41 PM
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The way I understand the courtroom oath having the phrase "so help me God" it was not meant to praise God but to remind the person uttering the oath that they have sworn to speak the truth by the One that even if they fool everyone else in the courtroom He will not be fooled.

In a day and time when people want to believe the human mind is the highest form of intelligence governing us and that actions have no consequences beyond this life we cannot expect anyone to have any intrest in being truthful. That kind of thinking finds anything reminding them they might be wrong offensive.

Last edited by sandman; 04/12/09 03:44 PM.

James Arsenault

Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: ] #1302848
04/12/09 04:11 PM
04/12/09 04:11 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
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However 86% of the people do believe in a higher authority then a Judge and his minions. I missed nothing in my opinion of the expectations of a God much more Righteous then any Lawyer or Court Judge.


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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1302855
04/12/09 04:17 PM
04/12/09 04:17 PM
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If you are a judge or a lawyer, not having God in the courtroom is good for business. It assures a constant supply of criminals, without which, there would be no need for udges and lawyers.


A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: Terry] #1302860
04/12/09 04:21 PM
04/12/09 04:21 PM
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Yeah, great, lets just skip courtrooms and judges and let Got handle everything directly. That will show them.

Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: pass-thru] #1302904
04/12/09 05:04 PM
04/12/09 05:04 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
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Originally Posted By: pass-thru
Yeah, great, lets just skip courtrooms and judges and let Got handle everything directly. That will show them.



Who said anything about skipping court rooms??


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: Terry] #1302980
04/12/09 05:59 PM
04/12/09 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Terry
If you are a judge or a lawyer, not having God in the courtroom is good for business. It assures a constant supply of criminals, without which, there would be no need for udges and lawyers.

Good point.


I just let my mind wander, and it didn't come back.
Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: trapperchap] #1303175
04/12/09 08:33 PM
04/12/09 08:33 PM
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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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James Offline
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Mira, you miss the point. Although I DO think God has no business in our earthly courtrooms, that's a different issue.

The point of the oath is for the witness to swear to something he does believe in.

Btw, if God DOES wish to be present in our earthly courtrooms, no judge, lawyer, or other human is stopping him.

Jim


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"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1303248
04/12/09 09:13 PM
04/12/09 09:13 PM
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If there is no God why even worry about what we do? What would be the reason not to just live by the rules of the jungle?

Drifter


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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1303249
04/12/09 09:14 PM
04/12/09 09:14 PM
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The point of swearing on a Bible and using the words "So help me God" is recognizing that there is a standard of truth and a Judge (THE JUDGE) who is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart in relation to the ultimate truth...

Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: buckeyehunter] #1303256
04/12/09 09:21 PM
04/12/09 09:21 PM
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James Offline
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That's something to ask atheists, Drifter. The courts are concerned with people being serious about the oath.

Witnesses haven't sworn on the Bible here in AK since at least 1981, when I came up here.

Jim


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"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1303332
04/12/09 10:02 PM
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AND THE HITS ON THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN FAITH BASED LAWS CONTINUES TO TAKE THE HITS!

If not for a rule to follow, societies fail to constrict the evil in our society. Such as is our world here in the United States. And it should stay if we wish to continue our sanity in this screwed up world.

My $.02

Last edited by MMichtrapper; 04/12/09 10:04 PM.

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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1303351
04/12/09 10:13 PM
04/12/09 10:13 PM
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Mira's main post tells us that 86% of the people polled thought that "so help me God" should be kept.

Let us ponder that fact for a moment. If you are looking for the truth you would want to use every avenue open to you to persuade people to be truthful. Agnostics who wouldn't think twice about lying to men get nervous about lying to a possible God. The oath would remind real believers that truth matters. Real atheists don't believe anything beyond this life matters anyway so nothing you get them to swear by would create the sense of "truth matters here" that you need.

Given that there are more agnostics than true atheists I can understand why people want to keep an oath in our courts that holds them to a higher standard than swearing the oath to just men.


James Arsenault

Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1303594
04/13/09 12:02 AM
04/13/09 12:02 AM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
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Originally Posted By: James
Mira, you miss the point. Although I DO think God has no business in our earthly courtrooms, that's a different issue.

The point of the oath is for the witness to swear to something he does believe in.

Btw, if God DOES wish to be present in our earthly courtrooms, no judge, lawyer, or other human is stopping him.

Jim



However 86% of law abiding citizens want God to be in the Courts. It is not a case of God wanting to be in our Justice system as much as the general public feeling they want Him there. Those who want God to be a part of the search for truth vastly outnumber the folks who snicker at His name. Those that fear God and respect Him are in the majority as they swear upon the Bible before God. Thus the Bible and God hold more Power over integrity of the Court with more respect then they would for a man wearing a judges robe. Looking at some of the sentencing offered by judges after reading about their own transgressions I would rather God were called upon as a higher authority. Seeing judges caught breaking laws only shows how weak the Judges Robe is in comparison to having God fearing folk swearing to tell the truth before God. Prostitutes Black Books & ranks of known criminals also have judges in their ranks. Also seeing some of the sick rulings which some Judges are making today, makes me wonder if some of them are mentally stable enough or have enough MORAL fiber themselves to be on the bench, let alone ruling on the rights or wrongs of those before them.


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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: sandman] #1303601
04/13/09 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: sandman
Mira's main post tells us that 86% of the people polled thought that "so help me God" should be kept.

Let us ponder that fact for a moment. If you are looking for the truth you would want to use every avenue open to you to persuade people to be truthful. Agnostics who wouldn't think twice about lying to men get nervous about lying to a possible God. The oath would remind real believers that truth matters. Real atheists don't believe anything beyond this life matters anyway so nothing you get them to swear by would create the sense of "truth matters here" that you need.

Given that there are more agnostics than true atheists I can understand why people want to keep an oath in our courts that holds them to a higher standard than swearing the oath to just men.




For God Fearing folk that wedge is more important then a lie and thus you are correct Sandman. Calling on God does lever truth from people and many respect God more then a judge in a robe who is just as likely to be a sinner as the person he is ruling against. Lots of judges are no better then the former Governor of New York and his rants against prostitution while he was being serviced by prostitutes.

Last edited by Mira Trapper; 04/13/09 12:08 AM.

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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1303724
04/13/09 03:29 AM
04/13/09 03:29 AM
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So we shouldn't worry about whether the aetheists and agnostics are taking an oath that means something to them?

What about the Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, and a hundred other faiths who don't believe in our one God?

And some Christians themselves believe it's a sin to swear to anything, let alone be presumptious enough to do it to God.

All those folks put together may be a minority here, but we still want to be able to count on them swearing to the truth if they're witnesses.

Here in AK, this is usually the oath administered to witnesses:

"I swear or affirm to tell the truth in these proceedings."

This leaves the witness free to fill in the blank on whatever deity he wishes to swear to. The word "affirm" is for those whose faith or principles preclude them from swearing.

Jim


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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1303787
04/13/09 08:13 AM
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The way I see it James is the majority of folks are getting fed up with the PC stuff . We have been sitting on the sidelines letting a minority of folks run things because they are more vocal NOT right .

If it was good enough for our forefathers it ought to be good enough for us . After all it was working for a long time until we got career polititions and started letting liberal judges and lawyers split hairs to increase the grey areas .

Drifter


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Re: Secular Courts deny God though Society wants Him. [Re: James] #1303795
04/13/09 08:35 AM
04/13/09 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: James
So we shouldn't worry about whether the aetheists and agnostics are taking an oath that means something to them?

What about the Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, and a hundred other faiths who don't believe in our one God?

And some Christians themselves believe it's a sin to swear to anything, let alone be presumptious enough to do it to God.

All those folks put together may be a minority here, but we still want to be able to count on them swearing to the truth if they're witnesses.

Here in AK, this is usually the oath administered to witnesses:

"I swear or affirm to tell the truth in these proceedings."

This leaves the witness free to fill in the blank on whatever deity he wishes to swear to. The word "affirm" is for those whose faith or principles preclude them from swearing.

Jim



It really is amazing how atheist types who don't believe in God are so indignant against Him and the folks who do believe in God. Why do atheists who know no God get so adamant that folks who do believe in him are denied their willingness to offer God supplication. I played a lot of sports and although I don't believe in carrying lucky coins or having a pre-game routine for good luck I never ever denied my fellow players their routine. It was important to them so that was good enough for me. I never got bent out of shape if a player felt he had to touch each of our sticks in order to enhance his game. Taking God out of my game is a personal affront which the minority Politically correct have FORCED upon a society that favors God in all aspects of North American life. Those same folks who destroyed God feel threatened by Him even though they don't believe in Him. In this case where having people swear on a Bible and giving Credit to God for gaining Truth in Court rooms, I wonder why the folk that don't believe in God, are so disrespectful of the 86% who do want God in the Court Room?


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