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Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Latrans] #1348003
05/18/09 09:01 AM
05/18/09 09:01 AM

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BuckNE
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Latrans, the voters won't pay for their decision. Nancy Pelosi and the 53 California congressmen in Washington will see to that by just giving out subsidies to the egg producers.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Latrans] #1348027
05/18/09 09:59 AM
05/18/09 09:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 423
VT, AK
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Originally Posted By: Latrans
You guys can argue about this all you want, the bottomline is that the egg producers in California see cheaper eggs coming in to compete with the market and these imported eggs don't have to adhere to the same standards that the local producers do.

My question is why wouldn't the local producers be well within their rights to hold the out of state eggs to the same standards? The voters approved the proposition in the first place creating the unfair standards, it only makes sense for the California producers to say "Hey wait a minute, these guys are importing eggs that don't have to meet the same standards as I do."

Make the voters pay for their decision or make for fair markets. Its the same thing. The era of cheap food is coming to an end partially due to the AR movement.


Because CA voters should have no say over other states' internal affairs. And furthermore, that is precisely what the HSUS was going for with this, you'd be playing right into their hands...


I can't read my signature.
Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: ] #1348028
05/18/09 10:00 AM
05/18/09 10:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,777
Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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You keep saying that about subsidies but you have yet to make anything but the words work for you. In fact California can not afford to pay for their essential services and are facing major cut backs in those areas. I doubt very much that you have anything but a hunch going for you with regards to subsidies.In fact ,if the egg market in California had that grantee they wouldn't be trying this extreme measure. And if you think the feds are going to bail out the mistakes of Prop 2 you are taking a major leap in faith. Nancy Pelosie is in enough trouble already and will face major personal hurls as it become more obvious she lied to congress about what she knew about Gitmo and interrogation procedures.

My point of view is being misconstrued by you over and over again Buckne. I have stated several times that Prop 2 brought the farmers of California to this juncture . Thus they are now doing exactly what Latrans noted. My point is that we trappers would be better helped by such folks as the farmers by helping them. It doesn't help to blame the farmers now because they lost on prop 2. Making claims that the best solution is to allow these farmers to go down the tubes because idiots decided they know how to raise animals better then the folks who are actually raising animals and that baking a cake means breaking a few eggs is a cold comfort to the farmers who face farm bankruptcy because of laws they never asked for. If you understood what I have offered to this thread it isn't that hard to see I didn't agree with prop 2 but understand why prop 2 led to the farmers of California trying to force the issue in California upon all states. By making all state egg markets take note of just how H$U$ plan will effect every state in asking that all eggs sold in California they are trying to force Feds & other states roll back H$US driven farm laws. California , New Jersey & Florida are easy targets for HSUS one at a time and were won by H$U$. However, if H$U$ faces the combined efforts of Feds and the other states they will lose. Sometimes it is better to try to get public debate pushed across 51 states then be facing prop 2 actions in three. Thus California egg producers might just buy enough time to save their farms by having Feds class such laws as prop 2 as a threat to America`s food supply which they are... By forcing the issue now California egg producers will get other states to start taking on H$U$ at a state and federal level. If they do it any other way they will lose their California farms and the hypocrites will buy cheaper eggs from outside the state . The majority of those prop 2 supporters will be buying out of state eggs. They will take the cheaper option . Kinda like the person munching a t-bone steak and declaring, I could never kill a cow myself.


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Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: upstateNY] #1348030
05/18/09 10:01 AM
05/18/09 10:01 AM

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Upstate, no matter what happens, whether this legislation passes or doesn't pass, whether other states ship eggs into California or don't ship, it won't make a hill of beans to the price of eggs. The politicians will do what they always do...dole out money to make sure stupid people are protected from their own stupid decisions.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: arctichomestead] #1348039
05/18/09 10:14 AM
05/18/09 10:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,777
Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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Posts: 2,777
Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Originally Posted By: arctichomestead
Originally Posted By: Latrans
You guys can argue about this all you want, the bottomline is that the egg producers in California see cheaper eggs coming in to compete with the market and these imported eggs don't have to adhere to the same standards that the local producers do.

My question is why wouldn't the local producers be well within their rights to hold the out of state eggs to the same standards? The voters approved the proposition in the first place creating the unfair standards, it only makes sense for the California producers to say "Hey wait a minute, these guys are importing eggs that don't have to meet the same standards as I do."

Make the voters pay for their decision or make for fair markets. Its the same thing. The era of cheap food is coming to an end partially due to the AR movement.


Because CA voters should have no say over other states' internal affairs. And furthermore, that is precisely what the HSUS was going for with this, you'd be playing right into their hands...




I don`t see it that way. Right now H$U$ is trying to isolate Ohio and New York to get the same prop 2 legislation. One peg at a time works for them. However if the threat of prop 2 hits every state at the same time the fish becomes to big for H$U$ to land. It also would become a major problem for the feds to as this legislation will make people more aware of just how rising food costs can be linked right back to Prop 2 laws. Politically , California egg producers are forcing the issue in the hopes that the consumers of north America wake up. Our job should be to point at California in each province & state and tell our politicians to stop pushing prop two type ballot initiatives at the bequest of H$U$. If California farmers win this and get interstate commerce involved because food prices are going to become more costly they could win this by forcing the issue NOW. With the proper pressure from other states and consumers that regard prop 2 as idiotic meddling by folks crippling farmers one state at a time the Feds may have to find a way of canceling all prop 2 legislation because it threatens America``s meat production.


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Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1348052
05/18/09 10:30 AM
05/18/09 10:30 AM

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BuckNE
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Mira, I think you give the California egg producers waaaaaay too much credit by suggesting they are trying to force this legislation to instigate some kind of national revolt.

No, this is about making sure they aren't undercut, pure and simple.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: ] #1348056
05/18/09 10:33 AM
05/18/09 10:33 AM

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BuckNE
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Oh, and Mira, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, and 53 of the 435 Congressmen in the House being from California, the state of California won't have to pay for the subsidies. They'll slip it into a bill in Washington, DC.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: upstateNY] #1348440
05/18/09 05:50 PM
05/18/09 05:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 500
Mojave Desert, AZ & CA
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Latrans Offline
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Mojave Desert, AZ & CA
Originally Posted By: upstateNY
I thought all them Californians were vegetarian yuppies anyway.Or doesnt eggs count as meat ??


No, we just grow the food that this nation eats. California is the single largest producer of just about every agricultural commodity you can name. If California Agriculture fails, this entire nation goes hungry.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Latrans] #1348525
05/18/09 07:00 PM
05/18/09 07:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,151
Syracuse,Utica-Rome,Madison,On...
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Bob Evans,-CWCP Offline
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No Way! If Cal falls we can get it from Mexico or China.
bob


Bird,live honey Bee,Unique wildlife problems SOLVED.
Serving the great state of New York

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Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Bob Evans,-CWCP] #1348573
05/18/09 07:26 PM
05/18/09 07:26 PM

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BuckNE
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Latrans, don't kid yourself. You have any idea how much of our agricultural commodities is shipped overseas? Do you have any idea how much land is idled?

Don't believe for a second the rest of the country would starve without California's agriculture.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: ] #1348586
05/18/09 07:31 PM
05/18/09 07:31 PM

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BuckNE
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In an interstate trade war, Georgia could bring Californian's to their knees simply by stopping the shipments of Zig Zags.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Latrans] #1348592
05/18/09 07:38 PM
05/18/09 07:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Originally Posted By: Latrans
Originally Posted By: upstateNY
I thought all them Californians were vegetarian yuppies anyway.Or doesnt eggs count as meat ??


No, we just grow the food that this nation eats. California is the single largest producer of just about every agricultural commodity you can name. If California Agriculture fails, this entire nation goes hungry.


Apparently you have been smoking some of that Cali. commodity.

California is a lot like Maryland. I don't think anybody would miss either one!


-Goofy-
Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: HobbieTrapper] #1348617
05/18/09 08:00 PM
05/18/09 08:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 500
Mojave Desert, AZ & CA
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Latrans Offline
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Just check the agricultural statistics for yourself: http://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_S...2007cas-ovw.pdf

California is number one in all agricultural commodities including eggs, wisenheimers.

... and I for one look where my produce comes from, if its not grown in the US, I don't buy it. I can gaurantee that most countries, especially China don't follow our basic standards, or have you forgotten what melamine is?

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Latrans] #1348619
05/18/09 08:01 PM
05/18/09 08:01 PM

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BuckNE
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Sure, it is number one. But that doesn't mean the rest of the country would starve without it. Since it has the largest population by far, it could barely be producing enough to feed itself and still be number one.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: ] #1348627
05/18/09 08:08 PM
05/18/09 08:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 500
Mojave Desert, AZ & CA
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Latrans Offline
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Mojave Desert, AZ & CA
Take a look in your pantry or the shelves of your grocery store next time and see where all that food comes from.

Crop and Livestock Commodities in which California Leads the Nation:

Almonds Eggplant Lettuce, Romaine Pistachios Apricots Escarole/Endive Melons, Cantaloupe Plums Artichokes Figs Melons, Honeydew Plums, Dried Asparagus Flowers, Bulbs Milk Pomegranates Avocados Flowers, Cut Milk Goats Raspberries Beans, Dry Baby Lima Flowers, Potted Plants Nectarines Rice, Sweet Beans, Dry Large Lima Garlic Nursery, Bedding Plants Safflower Beans, Green Lima Grapes, Raisins Nursery Crops Seed, Alfalfa Bedding/Garden Plants Grapes, Table Olives Seed, Bermuda Grass Broccoli Grapes, Wine Onions, Dry Seed, Ladino Clover Brussels Sprouts Greens, Mustard Onions, Green Seed, Sudan Grass Cabbage, Chinese Hay, Alfalfa Parsley Seed, Vegetable and Flower Cabbage, Fresh Market Herbs Passion Fruit Spinach Carrots Jojoba Peaches, Clingstone Strawberries Cauliflower Kale Peaches, Freestone Tomatoes, Processing Celery Kiwifruit Pears, Bartlett Turnips Chicory Kumquats Peas, Chinese Vegetables, Greenhouse Cotton, American Pima Lemons Peppers, Bell Vegetables, Oriental Daikon Lettuce, Head Persimmons Walnuts

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: ] #1348631
05/18/09 08:10 PM
05/18/09 08:10 PM

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BuckNE
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BuckNE
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Oh, and contrary to your claim, there are MANY agricultural commodities that California doesn't lead in; including cattle, chickens, hogs, wheat, and corn. All you guys seem to raise are vegetables. No wonder so many of you are vegans.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: ] #1348744
05/18/09 09:35 PM
05/18/09 09:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,777
Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: BuckNE
Oh, and Mira, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, and 53 of the 435 Congressmen in the House being from California, the state of California won't have to pay for the subsidies. They'll slip it into a bill in Washington, DC.



You keep making that claim but it only a poorly conceived hunch on your behalf. In fact the Californian farmers would be crazy to fight for interstate trade barriers if they could just sit and wait for Feds to subsidize them. Those Californian farmers know no such subsidies are about to be offered . If they suspected they were to be offered they would just sit back and wait for them.


The Grand Rapids Press
> Michigan farmers to face off with Humane Society activists over animal
> care legislation
> by Monica Scott
> Tuesday July 28, 2009, 1:43 PM
> http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/07/michigan_farmers_prepared_to_f.html
>
> In a battle forming over proposed state standards for farm animal
> treatment, farmers and agribusiness leaders are supporting the
> proposals -- and squaring off against animal activists who oppose
> them.
>
> A bruising 2010 ballot initiative campaign could be on the horizon,
> led by the Humane Society of the United States. Representatives of
> that group say the proposed bills, which could be voted on in the
> House Agricultural Committee this week, don't address their concerns
> about tight confinement methods, such as battery cages for poultry.
>
> The group is fresh off a victory in California in which voters
> overwhelmingly approved measures that give chickens, pigs and calves
> in crates and cages more room. Farmers there have until 2015 to change
> their housing systems.

>
> State Rep. Mike Simpson, D-Jackson, one of the sponsors of the
> Michigan bills, said the California initiative highlighted the lack of
> mandatory standards here, which makes the state vulnerable to outside
> groups.
>
> "With this legislation, we can prove farmers are doing it right," he
> said. "We can find the bad actors and weed them out. We don't need
> outside folks coming into the state."
>
> The legislation -- companion bills are in the Senate -- establishes
> animal-care guidelines to be fully implemented in 2020, third-party
> auditing, a certification program and an animal care advisory council.
>
> The 10-member council would make recommendations to the state
> Department of Agriculture and the Commission on Agriculture on changes
> to the standards every five years. The department and commission would
> have sole authority to regulate livestock health and welfare.
>
> But Jill Fritz, Michigan state director for the Humane Society of the
> United States, said agribusiness interests would dominate the advisory
> council. She also said that adopting current industry standards would
> mean allowing extreme confinement systems -- such as gestation crates,
> veal crates and battery cages.
>
> For example, on average, each caged laying hen is afforded 67 square
> inches of cage. HSUS wants the industry to move to a cage-free system
> that allows at least 1.5 square feet of barn space.
>
> "Those methods of confinement do not allow animals the most basic
> movements, such as the ability to turn around and stretch their
> limbs," she said. "That is an inhumane way to raise animals. These are
> modest reforms we are requesting."
>
> The Humane Society of the United States, which is not affiliated with
> state or local agencies, is considering ballot initiatives in Michigan
> and Ohio. Last month, Ohio lawmakers approved resolutions to create a
> 13-member board to oversee animal treatment, and residents there will
> vote on a constitution amendment. The action, prompted by California's
> vote, is seen as a preemptive strike. But HSUS representatives say
> they have gotten positive feedback from a poll of likely voters in
> both states.
>
> Merle Langeland, president of the Ottawa County Farm Bureau and
> co-owner of Langeland Farms in Coopersville, said that if there is a
> ballot showdown, there is a compelling argument to be made about how
> the cost of the measures for agriculture, a $71.3 billion industry in
> the state, would be passed down through higher food prices.
>
> "When you have outside groups calling the shots -- in any industry --
> it's a recipe for disaster," said Langeland, whose 2,700-acre farm
> raises dairy cows and poultry. "I hope that the general public feels
> the legislation, if passed, puts in place enough controls for the care
> of animals."
>
> The Michigan Humane Society has not taken a formal position on the
> legislation but has raised some concerns. Representatives of the group
> opposed the adoption of industry guidelines, some of which were
> written earlier this decade.
>
> "By delaying their full implementation until 2020, and prohibiting
> their review until 2025, the bill would effectively eliminate
> consideration of new and developing practices in animal culture over
> the next 16 years," Cal Morgan, the Michigan Humane Society's
> president and chief executive officer, wrote Simpson last month.
>
> Animal activists have an ally in the Michigan Township Association,
> which opposes the proposed measure because it preempts local control.
> But Sen. Wayne Kuipers, R-Holland and a bill sponsor, said many
> farmers have fields in different municipalities, so the proposal would
> give them one standard to follow.
>
> FACT SHEET
> The Michigan Legislature is considering two bills regulating animal
> care. If approved, they would:
>
> • Give the state Department of Agriculture and the Commission on
> Agriculture sole authority to regulate livestock health and welfare.
>
> • Adopt guidelines developed by national groups that farmers would
> have to comply to by July 1, 2020.
>
> • Create a 10-member advisory council, appointed by the director of
> the state Department of Agriculture. Council members could make
> recommendations to change specific science-based animal standards
> every five years.
>
> • Forbid a local unit of government from enforcing any ordinance
> involving animal care standards regarding livestock.
>
> • Require a system of third-party auditors to certify whether farms
> are complying with animal guidelines; the state would set fees to be
> paid.
>
> Source: House Fiscal Agency

Last edited by Mira Trapper; 07/30/09 05:46 PM.

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Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1348818
05/18/09 10:28 PM
05/18/09 10:28 PM

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BuckNE
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BuckNE
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Actually, they know that if the trade barriers are in place, which is the only way the egg prices will actually increase, then they are guaranteed the subsidies. If out-of-state egg producers are allowed to sell in California without the restrictions, then the egg prices aren't likely to change much, and they aren't as likely to get their subsidies.

Restrictions on importing eggs from out of state and raising the egg costs is the only way to guarantee the subsidies.

Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: Latrans] #1349402
05/19/09 12:20 PM
05/19/09 12:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Latrans
Take a look in your pantry or the shelves of your grocery store next time and see where all that food comes from.

Crop and Livestock Commodities in which California Leads the Nation:

Almonds Eggplant Lettuce, Romaine Pistachios Apricots Escarole/Endive Melons, Cantaloupe Plums Artichokes Figs Melons, Honeydew Plums, Dried Asparagus Flowers, Bulbs Milk Pomegranates Avocados Flowers, Cut Milk Goats Raspberries Beans, Dry Baby Lima Flowers, Potted Plants Nectarines Rice, Sweet Beans, Dry Large Lima Garlic Nursery, Bedding Plants Safflower Beans, Green Lima Grapes, Raisins Nursery Crops Seed, Alfalfa Bedding/Garden Plants Grapes, Table Olives Seed, Bermuda Grass Broccoli Grapes, Wine Onions, Dry Seed, Ladino Clover Brussels Sprouts Greens, Mustard Onions, Green Seed, Sudan Grass Cabbage, Chinese Hay, Alfalfa Parsley Seed, Vegetable and Flower Cabbage, Fresh Market Herbs Passion Fruit Spinach Carrots Jojoba Peaches, Clingstone Strawberries Cauliflower Kale Peaches, Freestone Tomatoes, Processing Celery Kiwifruit Pears, Bartlett Turnips Chicory Kumquats Peas, Chinese Vegetables, Greenhouse Cotton, American Pima Lemons Peppers, Bell Vegetables, Oriental Daikon Lettuce, Head Persimmons Walnuts


Who eats this stuff?


-Goofy-
Re: Eggs are going top increase in Price. [Re: HobbieTrapper] #1350135
05/19/09 10:47 PM
05/19/09 10:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,777
Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
trapper
Mira Trapper  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,777
Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Drovers Magazine
Another domino falls to HSUS
By Drovers news source
Thursday, May 14, 2009
http://www.drovers.com/news_editorial.asp?pgID=675&ed_id=5478

Maine Governor John Baldacci signed landmark legislation Wednesday
that will prohibit gestation crates and veal crates in his state. LD
1021 becomes effective Jan. 1, 2011, and was sponsored by Sen. John
Nutting (D-Androscoggin County), senate chair of the Agriculture,
Conservation and Forestry Committee. It passed the committee and both
chambers unanimously. The Humane Society of the United States strongly
backed the legislation.

With the passage of this legislation, Maine becomes the sixth state to
pass such legislation. Last November Californians passed The
Prevention of Farm Animal Cruelty Act by a ballot initiative.
Previously, Colorado, Florida, Arizona and Oregon passed similar
reforms.
__._,_.___


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