In response to creektrapper about more serious minded topics....I thought I'd start this.

How many of you have seen lures burn out in your part of the country ???? I've seen this many,many times in my area and I can't say that I understand why it happens.I've used certain lures for a few years and seen how they simply wasn't as effect after some time as the first few years I've used them.

Now.......I could put this lure aside and not use it for 3-4 years and have it be just as effective as in the beginning.Anybody else ever seen this type of thing happen in your area ??

i believe this is due to animals workin the particular smells and not being caught .... missin the pan, after the trap is pulled, etc .... i have never seen it happen on a large scale ... but im sure some know what im sayin ...sorry for being so vague but could write a small book bout it ... just figured id throw in sum input

I've been using the same exact lures in the same areas year after year for over 50 years and my Dad in the same areas for 40 years before myself. I have not seen one shred of evidence that the effectiveness was anything but steady for all of that time. Thats not to mention that most of the best trappers in my locality use the same lures in the same general localities too. Personally, I think this "burn out" idea was founded and promoted by buding lure makers as a means of getting their foot in the door with a new product. Trappers having fluctuations in yearly harvesting assumed the lure was burned out or had become ineffective because of a formula change. The true reason for the poor harvest may have laid in a multitude of variables too long to list. Ace

I hear what you're saying Asa.....and there's no doubt at times it is something unrelated to the lure.Low animal numbers,bad locations,weather and maybe another dozen reasons I've not even thought of.

But,I'm refering to those times when sign was there,but fur wasn't workin' sets.One thing I have noticed......I've had far less of this problem when I cleaned up sets when pulling traps at the end of the season.Leaving no trace of lure or baits at a location.

Palerider writes...
I've had far less of this problem when I cleaned up sets when pulling traps at the end of the season.Leaving no trace of lure or baits at a location.

Good point Palerider! I have most always taken the little extra time when pulling traps to smooth out the set so it looks natural rather than being a big unnatural hole left where the trap was buried. I always pick up waxed paper trap coverings too where most trappers just jerk the trap, leave the paper there and leave human tracks right at the set to possibly make a wary passing canine suspicious of sets thereafter. Then I have a barbecue fork with the tines bent over so I can reach into the hole and easily retrieve the scent stick. Ace

Here's another thought Ace.I've seen countless times when a coon would climb a tree for the smell of fish,while the next coon would walk with inches of the set showing no interest in fish ordors.

Maybe it's just individual animals likes and dislikes.I mean really.....not everybody likes ice cream.

It often happens in areas where new and ignorant, or lazy and inept trappers make sloppy sets. These folks are H to follow behind.
Later,
45/70,

i blame it mostly on low game populations... around here, all the old dutch farmers believe in fencing off everything and making sure that nothing but grass is growing between them... not real conducive to helping the game population ...

and i can also say that i am with 45/70 that some animals will associate a lure with a bad experience... such as getting pinched, or digging out countless sloppy trap beds.

i use a good coon lure and ive never had a lure burn out,the only way i can see that happen is if ya snap a few coons on that lure,i switched up to ringtail renegade and skys the limit and have never had burn out yet,just my 2 cents worth.

Doug Toops writes...i use a good coon lure and ive never had a lure burn out

I agree 100%. Back in the Michigan bounty era of trapping coyotes all year around we were required by law to turn loose every incidental coon. I don't recall ever seeing evidence that even one coon ever passed a lured coyote set and my trapping territory is a vast area of sand where tracks are most always apparent. Ace

thank you asa,if ya have a good lure as you know they wont pass it.

Lure burn out!!!! All You guys that sell lure have heard Your wives talk about how burned out they get from smelling that stinky lure.

There is nothing like grinding skunk sacks!! Scott

I've got nose burn out Scott from years of working in the lure building!! Ace

I disagree everybody like Ice Cream!

when they start shying from my bait and such I just add some lenons lures and spice it up. Try this I have had good results. I like using Lenon's lures on the old wise coyotes or a coyote that has already knows my trap is there. I just change the set up a little and use lenons. Fox sure long range all call and Coyote Super range all call I will always keep in my bag of tricks. I have found that if the bait i have in the hole doesn't produce any activity I will add a little lenons. These lures last a long time and they go far. I have had a jar of fox super all call for 4 yrs and its as good now as it was when I purchased it if not better, and should still make another season on it.

All very good posts. I have had this happen with coyotes but I dont think its "lure burn out" but more like lack of intrest. If a coyote works a set and does not get caught for whatever reason I think that some, not all, but some will lose intrest. I picture an unintrested coyote walking buy a set that he has smelled before thinking "I've smelled that before" and therefore he knows what it is and the curiousity factor is gone and in his mind he will move on to greener pastures. If you change the visual attraction from say a dirthole to a flatset and use the same lure chances are that the unintrested coyote will become intrested again because there is something different about the set. You can avoid this from happening by using a lure from a good lure maker. In my mind a good lure keeps the animal at the set long enough to get caught. Many lures will attract an animal but do not hold the animals intrest long enough for a high catch rate. Lenons and Cavens lures do catch more fur because they hold the animals attention. Trapping without their lures in my mind is a BIG handicap.

this is my thing ... conditioning ... if the animal has smelled a certain smell and have had a bad experience or gained nuthin at all by investigatin a smell ... when they smell it again WHY bother ?? i have the utmost respect for alot of trappers and those who make lures THAT WORK ..... but i also THINK .... and have seen certain things while trappin ... not to step on toes or anything .... sorry

I always thought when my catches dropped off that I had already caught the cream of the crop and it was time to move to another location for a while:)

I agree Gary, but what the heck are ya sorry for?

its just that people think there are SET things when trappin and its so far from the truth .... i have caught less animals than most on here .... but the few i have caught i try to THINK why i have caught em .... and think why i didnt catch the ones that i thought i should have ... its all detective work ... what it comes down to is ... if ya stay with one lure ya not gonna catch what ya could have if ya used multiple ones ... and the attractiveness of one lure to another will change .. i have seen animals refuse well established lures on my lines that i KNOW works great ...and later in the season only to fall for sumthin that is less than mediocre .... but this are my feelings on the topic and i dont wanna step on toes

One thing I know is the sence of smell in humans carries powerfull memories. I'll get a wiff of something that will take me back years and years.

I can't say the effects would be the same for coons and k9s, but I'll bet if they smelled something and associated it with danger or associated it with just stinky hole in the ground (been there, done that type of thing) they may well remember it.

However there should be an influx of new critters to most areas each year that haven't smelled it before so your catch may or may not drop off depending on how many young of the year and how many others move into the area.

Unless I'm reincarnated as a coyote I may never know for sure though. lol

~ADC~

Once again I agree with ya Gary. I use many different lures for land trapping and some would say that I dont need that many but each one has its own place and time on my trapline. Each animal is different and it takes different things and thinking outside of the box to maximize your catch. I like what you said about trying to determine why a catch was or was not made. IMO its that kind of thinking that makes a trapper the best that he/she can be. At first I would go up to an empty trap and think " ah man that stinks". I'd reset the trap and walk away with my head hung low. Now I walk up to an empty trap and think " well that stinks, I wonder why that happened". I reset the trap and try to correct what I did wrong and move on. My trapping skills improved when I started playing detective like you said.

yeah during the peak "migration" there is but after an animals territory is established ya will see the refusals .... not that im tellin ya any different than ya already know

I'm guessing that the smells remind them of something, The smell is too strong, the smell is not natural to the area, too many smells in one area, they just don't want the smell you have laid out, smell is not strong enough and the list goes on. It's hard to say. I've never had a lure "burn out" but I have had lures not catch me anything no matter how many times I've tried it or how I've used it or how long it's sat at a set. The animal will walk right past the lure. Even tho there may be alot of animals in the area. Everyone of them seems to pass it up. This doesn't happen all the time just once in a while with certain lures... If a lure has worked atleast once for me I figure it's served it's perpose but to not catch me anything the entire bottle or two that's not a well made lure in my opinion and I wont buy it again. ~Dan~

I like to use visual attracters like feathers,bones or burnt wood alot also. I try to take advantage of as many senses that the animal has. If an animal walks by a set and the wind is blowing the smell of the lure the wrong way he may never know that the set was there. A visual attractor will many times get the animals attention when the wind isnt in your favor.

thing is there are alot of people that have fallen into the burnt or black wood these days when a simple large object will do the same

It appears that 2 separate reactions are being conflated.

1 – lure burn out

that being when the animals do not exhibit any interest in a lure to which they have previously responded, i.e. the animals travel by the lure as if it weren’t there or pause but do not work the set.

2 – lure avoidance

that being when the animals avoid the lure and/or the locale containing the lure, i.e. the animal changes its line of travel to avoid the lure as in a fox or coyote detouring off a nice smooth trail to make a big semi-circle around the lure back to the trail and continuing to travel on the trail.

One thing I know is the sence of smell in humans carries powerfull memories. I'll get a wiff of something that will take me back years and years.

Yep!

When I was real little, I have no idea how old I was. But, I got into dad's lure and played with them. Mom and dad used to talk about me doing that, but dad never said what lures he had I got into.

In 1970, I bought some Dailey number 4 fox lure, if I remember correctly, it was a food lure. When I smelled it, I had a very vivid memory of pouring this lure into the mouth piece of an old crank-up telephone. It was that lure I was playing with! The memory of doing it was very intense.

How long an animal will remember a smell, I can not say. I doubt they have a very long memory.

Perhaps if everyone tested the lure/s they use, they could get a handle on what is happening between the lure/s and the animals in their area. Charles Dobbins wrote a very good book on how to test lures. After doing the test, as he wrote, I got some very real eye-opening results.

Some animals will walk by a set and the next one will get caught. Who knows what the animal that walks by was thinking at the time. Also, where they were going. I wonder if they are following the trail of some other odor that is more appealing to them at the moment.

People are the same, if they are doing something that is important to them, they will ignore other things at the time. Animals could be the same.

lol ....as far as memory .... take a dog treat and tease ya dog with it and give it a lil taste .... weeks later pull out the same treat and hold it up and ya will see a response .... canines arent dumb and hold memory quite well .... im not talkin yrs ... weeks ... and at the same time to cover both .... next time ya do that scold ya dog ... and THEN break out the treat ... a whole diff response .... like i said earlier i have seen no big change but i have seen a change and could write a book bout it

Thats right, In humans the olafactory senses are supposed to be the strongest memory stimuli we have,even more so than vision.It no doubt is a built in survival instinct from prehistoric times,ie,sabertooth tiger is hidin waitin to pounce on ya,cant see him but smell him. I would think that animals,especially canines are the same,I know a deer wont always run from what it sees or hears,but let it wind ya and see what happens.
Everyone has made a valid point,my experience has been like Garys,but in some places it was like Asas, Some places hawbakers red and grey 200 pulls in every fox that comes within smellin distance.Other places it dont. I have learned not to depend entirely on any lure to catch animals but rather as a tool to enhance a good set.When possible,like with coon,otter,and when we had some,mink I prefer a blind set with no lure at all.

True, but for me the wood is much lighter to carry around and I can find it anywere. Plus I have almost zero competition so no one else is out there using the same things as I.

Certain call lures which are generally formulated with a lot of similar ingredients to be strong smelling and invoke curiosity could possibly be ignored by a passing canine that satisfied his investigative nature on a previous set visit. There are other types of lures that it would be practically and naturally impossible for any canine to ignore just because he smelled it too many times before. These lures are like my Nature's Call line of lures which incorporate the animals nature by appealing to the call to urinate, to establish and check out other species territories, bring out passion callings and invoke curiosity. I have never seen a fox or coyote pass this type of formulated lure. This is why I generally make group settings, all of the hole sets lured with curiosity call lures except one post, flat or blind set lured with the Fox or Coyote Nature's Call. I have continually noted over the years, especially during Summer bounty trapping where pups were still running with their Mother, that the pups and young coyotes would head right for the curiosity call lures and the Mother who might possibly have more lure education would generally be caught at the Nature's Call lured set. This also reminds me of an old top notch bounty trapper who told me his secret to such noted success. For example, during the bounty era I remember 22 trappers stringing traps over 13 miles of sand firelane forest road where coyotes run the road. The old trapper told me that he would make subtle looking sets right between all of the others and lure it with Coyote Nature's Call. Another luring method to overcome posible disinterest of attractors is to make a simple blind or post set with nothing but plain fox, coyote or bobcat urine. To ignore this basic calling an animal would have to give up its very territorial nature that they thrive on. Ace

ASA:

What do you think of just using Sardines for Raccoons ?

I think there is alot of BS in this post from guys that "think" they have it figured out...lol

I can see why ASA stopped posting in it.

Lure burn out?
Poor set constuction, unclean equiptment, an area thats allready been trapped, etc.....are some of the reasons you get refusels and or a walkby, not from good quality lure.

If your using a proven lure, I don't care if your set was froze solid and a k9 came by, dug out the hole, licked his lips, pee himself, etc., he will be back when there is more lure down that hole, regaurdless if he's tasted/investigated it before.
Aslong as he didn't get snapped on the toenails when smelling that lure he will be back time & time again until caught.

Will a k9 avoid a smell that gave him a bad experience? Sure, short term....but come back 1 month later and you'll have 1 chance to get him again (especally after a rain fall, as they get dumb for whatever reason).......WILD k9's have a short memory and this is proven when you catch them with missing toe,etc. (not talking about fido here, that has been under our influence for many a year...you can't truly use fido as an example of how coyotes react as they arn't even close to the same)
I caught a late season female with a bad break in her left shoulder...I let her go....7 months later setting the same ground (not changeing a thing or the lure) I caught the same female again and know it was her when skinning left upper shoulder was healed, but basicly crippled and could see how the bone had repaired itself.....
So why would that female get caught in an exact d-hole with the same lure only 7 mths apart?
Must be a dumb one rite?

The only burn out that I know of is TRAPPER burn out....when one gets sloppy and or lazy.......its not the lures fault...look for another reason (someone beat you to the punch, your set constuction is unexceptable, your traps are dirt, you are dirty/sloppy,etc.).
A good lure is good year after year in the same area (unless you made him a smarty) but is only a temp. smarty.

Gary..you've made 2 posts saying you could write a book about it......well, I'm all ears

I see ASA is back...:)

Canvassback asked...
What do you think of just using Sardines for Raccoons ?

Sardines do a decent job getting the attention of most coons but from my experiments one will do better by adding something sweet such as anise oil, spearmint, honey, molasses or whatever to the sardines or other fish. Ace

Well I'm glad to see that you got it figured out then...lol

One thing I've learned over and over is that there's nothing that I've ever used that will get the attention of every coon that comes by.

One coon will climb a tree for fish and the next coon may pay no attention whatsoever.A coon has an attention span of maybe a few seconds at best.

I've fed coons at my house for years.Yelp.....fed them.Sows move in during early spring to raise litters out on the ridge west of me.They come to the house looking for cat feed etc.We've fed these coons to help them in raising a healthier litter,produce more milk for kittens etc.I've watched their reaction to many different kinds of food......and lures.

Fish isn't high every coons list.Some go for it like a starving hound,others pay little to no attention to it at all.It has been a first class learning experiences.

Burnt wood, and black wood are two different things. Black wood is a block of wood. a wood post, a rock, brick, or concrete block, whatever, that has been painted black. And yes, these objects can be good attractors.

Burnt wood is just that, wood that has been burned in a fire or on purpose. Burnt wood is not unusal in the field. A wild fire, a controled burn, burning out fence rows, burning over stubble, or burning urine posts all these things create burnt wood.

In addition to being black which is an attractor in itself, the benefits of burnt wood are, first of all, its odor is different than a painted block of 4X4.

Second, it is charcoal, at least in part, which retains lure and/or urine odors better than a painted river rock.

Third, it is gatored. Gatoring takes place in most all wood fire, and is an indicator to arson investigators of how hot a fire was, and where the point of origin was. The advantage of gatored (burnt wood) is that it increases the area over which the odor spreads, and functions with the charcoal to hold and protect (as in hard rainstorms) the lure/urine odors.

Fourth, it is natural in the field, something a painted concrete block is not.

Adios,
45/70,

tim first of all i have never claimed to know it all .... second i used the "FIDO" thing so people could relate to conditioning ... to say a good lure will have a positive response everytime is ridiculous ... as far as the yote with the bum shoulder ... have ya ever thought that she was hard up ? thats the only thing i could think as i am not a yote ... lmao .... i have caught quite a few PEG-LEGS in basic dirtholes and i could care less if they were DUMB or not ..... and to say a yote will work the same set over and over again is again ridiculous .... again i am not a yote but i do see sign that they leave ... my first post was the start of that topic after an animal has worked a certain set it is less attractive ... if i have this happen and have a miss i will punch in a new set for the one that didnt get caught ... this is YOTES ... fox will work sets over and over again intil they are caught ... just like ya say FIDO is much diff than yotes ...same with yotes and fox ... and like i said i could write and write about this topic ... but see no reason to do so here ... but if one day we run into one another at a convention or what not id love to sit down and hear ya theories on things as i LOVE to hear others ideas and thoughts and i dont try to attack sumbody for thinkin differently than i do ... i was just puttin my thoughts out there for others to read and THINK about ... not to change anyones methods .... all i do know is people tend to fall into ruts and is great to hear others views to maybe re-think things they are doing ... thats why i love this site so much ... alot of ideas and alot of great conversations

well said gary

Very well said Gary.I also agree 100%.I've never seen the same coyote work the same set with the SAME lure......over and over.Fox yes,but not coyotes.Those boys are made a little different.I'll also say that the dumbiest coyote I've ever seen was ten times smater that the smartest fox I've ever ran into.

Well said Gary. I thought that this was a very good topic as many of us were giving out our theories as to why things happen due to experiences that we have all had. Thats why this forum is here. Its unfortunate that someone has to come on here and take pokes at someone just because he does not agree with their theory.

lol.....sorry to bully you guys....

I would love to discuss yotes or anything else at a convention, my house your house, etc......anyone is always welcome to stop by.

I will have to go back and re-read what I posted earlier to see what has upset you..

Please point out my in the above post, where I have faultered.....you may quote it if you like....that way I will understand where your coming from.

I left the jabs out......just left in meat & potato.......

The part where I say "Must be a dumb one rite?" is being sarcastic (I should have put a ) so it would have been understood..

I said: "If your using a proven lure, I don't care if your set was froze solid and a k9 came by, dug out the hole, licked his lips, pee himself, etc., he will be back when there is more lure down that hole, regaurdless if he's tasted/investigated it before.
Aslong as he didn't get snapped on the toenails when smelling that lure he will be back time & time again until caught."

For those that don't think this is true...well then you "may" be useing poor quality lure if you've never experienced this....it may be time to switch

I said: "So why would that female get caught in an exact d-hole with the same lure only 7 mths apart?"

gary you said it was because "she was hard up"
....well she didn't seem hard up to me....lived through a tough winter, raised a litter of pups and was fit as a fiddle.....healde up fine.....didn't even know it was the same yote till skinin time.

I like everyones views.......some are good, some are (I feel) off the wall......I can 'feel" that way can't I?

im sorry but id love to see a specific yote work a set over and over again using the same smell (LURE) ... and it would be hard to prove unless there were toes missin and ya could see tracks ... but i will say that many times i have had double sets in ...catch 1 yote and miss the other ... and have return visits only to get close to a set to do their business and walk circles .... then punch in a new set with new smells a couple yards away and make a catch the next night ... this is why i will punch in new sets if i have misses now ... i dont believe it is the yote associatin the area as being bad since their partner has been caught .... but the lack of interest in the smells they have already checked out ... or it could be a combo of both ... im not a yote ...all i know is the new smell and new set will take em ..... im not sayin this happens all the time ... many of times the yotes will move on ... and again ... i have had return visits a week or so later and no aggressive worked sets ... til the new one (or more) sets are put in ... and AGAIN i could write on this subject forever ... there are so many variables that it isnt possible to cover em all on here ... i dont claim to be a great yote trapper ... or even a half-way decent one ... its just what i have SEEN

just like people .... not all are right in the head or learn the first time around ... maybe she was a bit slow

Good post gary......(serious)

I should as Slim say's 'just do a kick back and move on' lol. But what the heck.

Wheelie you live in farming country, dumbest coyotes on the planet, lol.

Ive had lure burn out before, only happened one time after that i started switching things up so not sure if it's something that will happen everywhere in time or not, once a coyote teach's me something he don't have to teach me again, i remember, same as he does.

As Asa said also, alot of variable's, some lures here just do not work as good in warm weather as they do in colder weather and vice versa! Trapping here as long as i have though I know what will work when and all of that.

Taking that out though, given the same variables, same locations, etc. I have seen my favorite lure go from knock out the first year of using it to just another good lure to have the second year to being totally avoided by the 3rd year!

I don't go to the extreme Asa does and dig out every hole, wipe lure off the side of every stump, rock, etc. when pulling and a coyote that comes to a lure and don't find anything of any value usually won't fool with it the next time by, why should he?

Talking meat based, food type lure's, not gland type lure's.

Not experienced lure burn out on any other animal but coyote's though. Coons come to anything that stinks, lol.

tim if it was easy as ya say to use the same lure and set day in and day out why are there such a problem with yotes ?? and certain yotes that cause so many problems with ranchers that cant be caught by ANY trapper ?? .....seems to me that ANYONE could catch every coyote that walked the face of the earth ...heck with a GOOD lure the yotes would fight one another to get to the set and ya could just place traps at any distance from the attractor and have em ..... why think of diff sets ?? could stay with one ..... and why in the world are there so many lures on the market ??

J i thought of ya when this post was made to be honest ... you beaver boys down south im sure see ya share of refusal of certain lures on those beavs .... or at least i would think ... i watched charles a few times messin with trapwise beaver and they WERE trapwise ... lol .... but he caught em ... and not in standard run of the mill sets ... he THOUGHT and stressed that to me many times over not to just say "hey i caught one" or "hey i missed one" .... but to THINK things thru ... i have always paid close attention to sign when i started trappin ... more so to try to learn natural habits ... but watchin what happens after a miss or pullout is even more important and alot of time what the animals do isnt NATURAL ... but is a response by LEARNIN (conditionin) ... J i hope i can get to BS with ya in goshen as i have MANY of things to pass by ya to get ya feedback ... tim i think we may be thinkin along the same line ... but again there are many variables that we both arent takin into account by typin on here ... i love that ya disagree with me to be honest ... makes it that much more intersting ... like i said i love hearin others ideas and thoughts

Gary said:....."seems to me that ANYONE could catch every coyote that walked the face of the earth ...heck with a GOOD lure the yotes would fight one another to get to the set and ya could just place traps at any distance from the attractor and have em ..... why think of diff sets ?? could stay with one ..... and why in the world are there so many lures on the market ??:"
_________________________

yep, I agree

You back down too quick Tim.

I got a better idea Gary, i'll bring my whistle and referee you and tim in goshen, how's that? lol.

Agree with ya on the beaver, you learned from the best! Spooked beaver are not the same as normal beaver and to catch them you have to 'read them' as Charlie would say. As I told Paul here while back though, ive not yet figured out how to read underwater, lol.

silly ya have to use BRAIL

lol.......when it comes to peoples "feelings" getting hurt, I take the road of repair and build......you should try it Jackie...lol

and if you think me telling gary that he made a good post is backing down your wrong.....even though I feel his posts "may" be flawed...I do appreciate his effort....I never said "Gary, your 100% right, your the man"...lol"

tim like i said ive never claimed to be 100% right and im not sure that anyone can be 100% right on the topic we are talkin about ... i think J was just stirrin the pot ... lol ... as far as my feelings getting hurt they werent ... just how ya went about the post ... guess i shouldnt take things on here so personal ... hope we can meet one day and get to sit down and shoot the bull .... like i said earlier i enjoy hearin diff ideas ... thats how a person learns

He made fun of your momma Gary, you going to take that? lol.

Im more into the crash and burn method Tim lol.

lol ..... J ya just aint right

Gary writes...
im sorry but id love to see a specific yote work a set over and over again using the same smell (LURE) .

Sorry Gary, i'm with Tim all the way on this one! I've had coyotes do just that over and over again, too many times to even estimate a count over 50+ years of coyote harvesting. Ace

asa .... not to say ya wrong ... but could ya please explain ? and how did ya know these yotes were the same yotes working the same set with same lure over and over again ?

Good post Palerider. That is exactly why I formulated 5 different coon lures, each one triggers a different response. When gangsetting a stretch of river I like to alternate lures at each set. Very seldom will a coon pass up every one. The exeption being breeding season when the dominant boars are out looking for love but even than my lure "River Bandit" will stop 90% of them. Having taken lure instructions from one of the master lure makers of our time I know what it takes to produce top shelf stuff as does ASA. With that being said I do not believe lure burnout to be a concern when using multiple lures produced by reputable lure makers.

Good Archives material....TTT

Gary asked...asa .... not to say ya wrong ... but could ya please explain ? and how did ya know these yotes were the same yotes working the same set with same lure over and over again ?

Every year I always make dirthole sets out around the perimeter of my deer blind so I can watch and see how coyotes work sets when their is no trap to stop them. I have literally watched the same coyote, identified by unique markings, work the same set with the same lure every day for 15 straight days and sometimes several times in the same day.
Also, my trapping area is miles of sand and snow where tracks can be easily seen and i've seen the same toeless or peg legged coyotes dig at the same sets with same lure day after day. I have also caught many coyotes after a few days of messing with sets that had missing toes so there is no doubt in my mind it was the same coyote coming back every day. Ace

I must say I agree to a large degree with Tim on his post.There are many variables that can and do affect a presumed lure burn out effect. A good lure is just that and will most likely work for any seasoned trapper that has animals to catch year in and out.

Change ups are always a plus with respects to lures and baits alike.As are versatile sets. Those beyond the basics.

Tim brings up a variety of good plausable reasons why one would assume his lure has run its course with your trapline canines.

What needs to be understood is the learning curve that an animal particularly a canine can attain to a degree. With that said,most can be caught one way or another.

Once an animal has survived a skirmish or two with a particular trap setup presentation with an odd but attractive odor he will retain some of this learned conditioning response. But he will still find interest at some point again in a similiar or the same odor again.

Presentation of a particular set construction I believe is much more important a reason of refusal or disinterest in a lure then the lure itself. Man is his own worst enemy at times. We create many of our own problems and then want to blame the problem on something else.

Trapping pressure can cause set rejection with some canines at times.Or other sportsman that are nite hunting in an area that you are trapping. Or you are unaware of callers and coon hunters etc. in those other areas you are unaware of can cause animals to flat out avoid that area for some time due to the harassment or they just might want to avoid that kind of invasion into their normal feeding areas at nite which happen to be your favorite canine spots in years past.


You build a different set at a different location using that same lure in a completely unassociated type of display you may get him right away, the next time through or at another set a mile or so away.


It seems that there are many reasons, or logical assessments that we would assume that the facts point to lure burn out.

I think it is better rationalized that we or actions of others play a greater role in determining whether a lure loses it attractiveness or not.

I, would go as far to say I believe that in some few cases a canine may have total avoidance of any formulated lure. One that just doesnt and wont find interest in a multi ingredient attraction due to its own personal experience and/or its survival extincts. Or whatever factor that makes these animals act as they do.

In these remote cases it has been my experience that natural or small trace odor products will most likely enable one to also catch these type of animals as well if one has a mind to.

TTT

Good information Bob J! When I get the occasional set avoider I simply go to plain urine or something like my Nature's Call line of lures which are all natural in formulation and use them at scent post or blind scent type sets. For a canine to avoid such lures they would have to resist their very territorial nature. I assume Bob that you are referring to something like this when you say... "In these remote cases it has been my experience that natural or small trace odor products will most likely enable one to also catch these type of animals as well if one has a mind to"
Ace

Yes Asa, I was referring to that exact kind of product. You know the drill Asa that is for sure.

It is certainly an honor to have your experience and abilities to resource when the need arises.My hat is off to you.

I hope You younger or less experienced trappers know that You are getting thousands of dollars worth of education here... not to mention all the miles driven, all the empty traps, all the hours spent laying awake in bed trying to figure these things out, and You guys don't get any of the headaches!!!!

Scott

asa .... the thing is ... ya just admitted they are avoid'n a ceratain lure .... that was the point of this post ... was askin if it happened .... i dont know ya ... and dont doubt that ya have sumthin to throw at the critter thats spooked ... but anyone that says it doesnt happen is so full of chit their eyes re brown .... im sure y have caught more critters in a week than i have in my lifetime .... just BS when it comes to that

another thing is ... if yall are such wolfers .... why did ya miss em so bad ..... like 2 times ??? and KNOW it happened ..... OMG

Gary, Gary, settle down! A true avoider sometimes avoids sets with no lure at all! I've had peg legged coyotes that wouldn't walk on a trail because they had been caught in an unlured trail set or become so wary of human scent that they would go out around any place in a trail where one stopped long enough to slip in an unlured set. Of course there are exceptions to every rule and i've just described one of those exceptions as an example. These rare exceptions have little in common with the idea of "lure burnout." Probably a vast majority of the fox and coyotes that are harvested each season were Spring pups and yearlings that never seen any sets or smelled any lures. Once they are wised up for some reason then they become set diggers or avoiders, not a specific lure avoider. As was said above by myself and Bob J, one can overcome these exceptions by making natural sets with natural lures or plain urines. Even if the most wary and set/lure experienced coyote was suspicious of natural sets and scents, he would have to resist his very nature to never again commit to them. Ace

Anyone who has ever tracked a coyote veyr far in the snow, knows that they will veer over to check out a dark colored object in the field. Black blocks add a better visual than say, a rock. Any rock will work, a dark rock is better.

I think when trying to assess why a coyote has walked by your set there are a ton of variables to consider, with lure burn out being very low on the list. I'm not saying I catch them all, but if he worked the set he should be dead, not walking away habituated to your lures.

Asa and others have nailed it, when pulling your sets remove the object that your lure was on if you can. Some of these lures last a long time, and that is a real problem. I have a place on a coon stream where a large rock blocks off part of the stream. I have for years used it as a place to squirt my fish oil, and set a trap in front of. So much so, that there is a permanent oil spot on the side of that rock, and even in the summer time it puts off a fishy smell. Coons have stopped investigating it. They have gone over there and satisfied thier curiousity, and gotten no meal. This set started getting unproductive, I realized the coon were still there, and not getting caught, so I changed the smell that I was using. Boom, started catching coons.

I think a guy using a smear set, say on the side of a stump or rock, for coyotes, can run into the same problem. He needs to mix up his smells year to year as there is no way he can remove a lure stick, etc. On TBone sets, I follow OG's advice to the max, and remove the bone when I am done with the set.

As far as walkbys go though, many other things factor in. Coyote's mindset/food needs, sloppy set, just not interested, and on and on and on. If that coyote coming by your set is intent on a rabbit that he smells or sees, he is gonna walk by. If he just heard another coyote over the hill and is focused on that, he is gonna walk by.

Asa nailed it too, in that they cannot ignore smells of thier own kind. That is just in thier nature, and they should not become habituated to such smells.

I have always thought I could use habituation to my advantage, but have so far not become convinced that it is worth the effort. For quite a while, I would carry some gland lure with me while checking out new ground. In some locations, you see a spot that just screams out for a flat set. Those natural backings that you know are the top spot for a set. I would smear some gland lure on such places no matter what time of the year I was there. My thought being, to make this a spot that get's urinated and crapped on every time any coyote walks by. Next time he is by, he will investigate it again, to see who else has marked it, and he will mark it again himself.

I am not convinced that this isn't a good thing to do, just have stopped carrying around the gland lure with me, because I am not sure the advantages outweigh the effort to get it done.

OK I am an idiot. I was only on the first page and my reponse was to that, once I posted I realized theres a whole second page to this thread. However my thoughts remain the same, and excellent post Bob J.

This segment of my post I would like to call "Fun With JTrapper

On the subject of lure burnout, imagine that you are a young JTrapper, say 18 years old, and a girl walks by you. You smell her perfume, and it brings you in closer, luring you in like a Siren's Song. You approach that appealing sight and smell, thinking there may be a reward on the other side of this whole deal. You check it out, you like what you see, you like what you smell, much like a coyote approaching a dirt hole set that has had the trap pulled. You satisfy your curiousity, but as usual, you are rejected by the girl, or in the case of the coyote you have checked out the dirthole, rolled around a bit, but there was nothing there.

Next time J sees that pretty girl, she still looks good, she still smells good, but his curiousity has been satisfied. He knows there is no reward for him there, so why bother checking it out. I think the same holds true for a set where the trap has been pulled, but the trapper has left his lure stick behind.

Darn it Asa, I do not look for reasons to disagree with you, but I have to ask about this. I am not being difficult, I am just trying to learn something.

You post that you have seen the same coyote work the same lure time and time again from your deer blinds. That is evidence that coyotes do not become habituated to some lures. Yet in your earlier post, you talk at length about removing your lure sticks etc when you pull a set. I agree with you, that it is better to remove your lure smells if you can, but it seems to contradict your observations from your deer blind.

Your insulting coyote's intelligence by comparing them to me K9, i think you owe all the coyote's in the world an appology lol.

As I stated ive seen lure burnout ONCE and that was on coyote. I adjusted how I do things and haven't seen it since. IN other words it's way way down on the scale of IMPORTANT things to worry about in making catch's.

Those of your that have been around for 30 or more years, remember the fur boom days? Ever notice how less canines avoid set's now days compared to back then? Certain lure's back then were used by every yahoo in the county. Any fox that survived past the first week of opener pretty much would run all over but never go near dirthole sets or the main lure of choice in the area! Pretty much what turned me into a flat set trapper.

K9:
The answer is simple, I don't believe that lures will burn out from season to season because probably a vast majority of coyotes harvested each season are Spring pups and yearlings that never smelled any lures before and 99% of those are harvested on their first set visit.
I believe lures could possibly burn out or the animals, even Spring pups and yearlings, might lose interest in them if they were to pass by a trapless set every day for months on end between trapping seasons.
Thanks for posing a great question! Ace

J Trapper's last post, I agree there may have been a time in the fur boom of the late 70's that a lure could burn out. Every kid had a bottle of Hawbakers lure and a copy of Trapping North American urbearers open at the set while they spent an hour making the set acording to the detail of the book. That doesn't apply now, the trappers today are better educated and a lot less of them out in the field making bad proceedure errors. Ace

That doesn't apply now, the trappers today are better educated and a lot less of them out in the field making bad proceedure errors. Ace

Asa, Asa, lol.

Are you not aware of the 'errors' some have made this past season which has put alot of DNR's and states on the hot seat with the anti's?

Rethink that statement.

And what were you doing following me around in the late 70's? lol. Im guilty of what you wrote there only I didn't know about lure at that time, couldn't afford it is why, was using jack mackeral or sardines for an attactor, possum killing fool i was back then, lol.

Generally speaking J, trappers are better eductaed and make fewer blunders than they did in the late 70's. At least I haven't heard of anyone setting a #4 trap 100 feet behind someone's house and snipping the leg off from their pet poodle.
That isn't what I meant anyway, was referring to the education of canine in the field to sets, lures, odors, etc. Ace

At any rate, ive learned by leaving lure behind on objects and trapping the same ground year after year I DID start to get avoidance. Switch swapping lures from year to year cured the problem so the lure was the problem.

Im not hauling off every rock, stump, broom straw clump, bone, log, etc. i smear lure on from every trapline i run, lol. Is easier to just switch swap lures from year to year.

I haven't found any equally effective lures from what I am using to switch from year to year so I would rather be safe than sorry, LOL! Ace

We don't have the SUPER DUPER variety of coyote's here though Asa, as ive told Paul before im not picky about lure's, if it stinks they will come, lol.

I kept detailed records for 3 years on lures to see which one was my BEST coyote lure even though in my mind I already knew, boy was I wrong!

In the end I couldn't see any major difference from one lure to the next, even some off brand 1.50 a ounce one's id bought at our state meet auction! Basically if it stunk, they came to it.

Jtrapper I couldnt agree with you more. In some regions it just doesnt matter to any great degree what one uses. If it has an odor of just about any food,curosity or gland origin they will show some interest.Animals are opportunists by and large so this situation can be true in many areas of the country at times.. The major factor is trapper pressure,population densities and interference of man to a greater degree.

I made some bait last year and didn't have any advoidence from any animals. I caught 9 coyotes in the same remake set in 10 days. I belive if you have the right ingridents in lures or baits you won't get advoidences. I also used redfox urine and real sheeps wool wich has an order itself. I really belive all the lures and bait that are made today are a little weak on high quality ingridents.

Nah J you are smart as any ole coyote. Take that as a compliment, it was intended as such.

I too am not hauling away backings and stuff from my line. My awareness of potential for habituation however, makes me mix it up a bit, as far as lures go.

Depending on the backing or object holding the lure, and weather conditions, I think some smells last a very long time. Even if the lure stick is gone, I have at times in the spring, seen where coyotes have dug out the old hole.

Ideally the coyote smells your lure, investigates it, and dies. However with no trap out front that will not happen. I was playing with some smells last summer out in my yard, watching my dogs react to them. Had a couple holes in the yard where the dogs had been aggressively digging. Once in a while those dogs will still sotp at those spots, and sniff around and dig a bit.

Do they smell residual lure after all this time, or have they just come into the habit of folling aorundin that spot?

I dunno.

Trapper should be better educated, with all the resources they have that we did not have at the beginning of the fur boom. However this new crew that came out only because of higher fur prices often cares very little about trapping.

I drove up on a coyote in a trap one time and there was 3 others with it. They seen me and took off and i didnt see another track in there for over 3 weeks, made me wonder how many coyotes watch trappers kill trap coyotes. After that they got harder to trap in that area. Was it human scent at the set or them seein me comein up to the other coyote that made them harder to trap? Then one time i trapped alot of coyotes off a farm that had large chicken houses on it. Done good there but kept seein the tracks of one big dog that would'nt come in on my sets. Know how i got him, i tied a dead chicken to a post and had him the next day. Sounds like a dumb set i know but he went right to it human order and all. What gets me is i know he smelled me at the other sets and had to smell me at the dead chicken but that did'nt seem to matter any more to him. Could'nt he put danger together at both sets? Did'nt see any more tracks in there after that.

During Summer bounty trapping i've driven up to sets where there was say 3 pups already in traps and the Mother coyote and 3 more pups were there and hid in the ferns. Most everytime something like that happened the mother coyote would move herself and the remaining pups right out of the country. If the Mother was in the trap of course the pups would continue to hang around and I would finish them up on the next visit.

i didnt read everything that was posted ..... BUT .... if an animal has smelled a smell and didnt gain anything from it .... and it is presented the same way .... they wont be too keen on checkin it out ..... if they have seen the same set (dirthole) and smelled it .... whats the sense ?? anyone that traps much will know what im sayin .... dunno im an idiot .... lol .... BUT is fun to act like i do

if an animal has approached a set and has been nipped .... its even worse .... i dont care if ogorman or wendt says it doesnt happen ..... the critters are conditioned ...... this isnt from my own observations ..... but what i have seen combined with what i was taught .......... this isnt always a bad thing tho cuzz ya can use it to ya advantage .... BUT what do i know .... lol

TTT

Im going to make a hypothesis and say the lure is not burned out and more like the k9's have been educated and is staying clear of the set for some other reason.

ttt