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Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: willie3384] #1578555
11/05/09 05:28 PM
11/05/09 05:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,005
Kentucky....14y/o
K9.Trapper Offline
trapper
K9.Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,005
Kentucky....14y/o
all from bigfoot...my final answer


UTK member!
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: KevinH] #1578565
11/05/09 05:41 PM
11/05/09 05:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 107
Utah, Utah County
snappin_metal Offline
trapper
snappin_metal  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 107
Utah, Utah County
My guess
1.owl pellet
2.opposum
3.coon
4.deer
5.owl again?
6.bear
7.mink
8.marten
9.fox
10.coyote after eating mexican food

Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: upstateNY] #1578672
11/05/09 06:51 PM
11/05/09 06:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
trapper
Ohio Wolverine  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
1. OWL barn
2. coon
3. coon that ate apples
4. deer
5. horned owl/hoot owl
6.coon
7. fox
8.opposum
9. fox
10. COON LOL wink


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: MAUMAU] #1578859
11/05/09 08:24 PM
11/05/09 08:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 982
Whoville USA
Bowhunter74 Offline
trapper
Bowhunter74  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 982
Whoville USA
This posting is crap!!! LOL sorry had to

Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Bowhunter74] #1579036
11/05/09 09:14 PM
11/05/09 09:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,645
Minnesota
minnscott Offline
"Dink"
minnscott  Offline
"Dink"

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,645
Minnesota
I would have to see they pas the taste test.


WOODBILLY
Life is a dance. learn a new step every day.

-“Ut ceteri vivere possint”-
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: minnscott] #1579188
11/05/09 10:02 PM
11/05/09 10:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Jonathan Offline OP
"Wilson"
Jonathan  Offline OP
"Wilson"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
This toilet/pottie evidence is accumulating in a healthy direction, so far.

My hope and prayer is that as the post's ink was originally intended and presented as a training and educational device that somebody doesn't stop by with ego diarrhea staining it enough to have my plop deleted. It wouldn't be the first time. So.... in that potentiality, I'll save the ink on this topic that I have dropped and spelled with after this one - just in case.

I have every one of these specimens left in my freezer, after I picked them apart and viewed each one in my home laboratory under two different microscopes.

The only one of these ten turds that I have not been able to positively identify with verification in my forensic evidence stash is #3. When I spotted that one, there was a feral cat about 12 ft. away from it.

But, I am almost positive that [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] didn't do it - otherwise it would have exhibited some element of being covered with surrounding soil. And, I didn't scare it away from it on my approach. It was near that little pile not long before I got there, probably just sniffing to check it out to detect who was there before him. I knew it was a Tom! His walnut sized duals of a scrotum below its tail were very telling in that regard.

That specimen was on a known skunk and opossum trail that I have been scoping for over a month. I have no clue which one of them pooped that one out. I am still learning. Are you?

Jonathan


Camera Gear: Canon EOS 7D-MK-II, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, EF 28-135mm, EF 100-400mm and EF 400mm lenses.



Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: MAUMAU] #1579268
11/05/09 10:34 PM
11/05/09 10:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Montana
grumpyoldman Offline
trapper
grumpyoldman  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Montana
Jonathan, selected sample #3 appears to me to be coyote, I have been seeing the same specimens both north and south of the little town I live in, it looks to me to be crab apple based with whatever else has been ingested at the apple eating time. There are no crab apples trees out of this town and talking with some of the local window lurkers they have been seeing coyotes right in town eating these apples off the ground under said apple trees. I have noticed this same stool as your picture, as far as 21/2 miles north in wheat stubble fields and 2-3 miles south of town on a resivoir dam and in a dry creek bottoms. Again no apple trees except in town, and racoons are basically non exsistant here in this area. I caught a nice pale female coyote on the end of the resivoir dam last night and this was the same scat she left while in the trap.

Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Jonathan] #1579322
11/05/09 10:58 PM
11/05/09 10:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,436
Corunna Michigan
fur_minator Offline
trapper
fur_minator  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,436
Corunna Michigan
Originally Posted By: Jonathan
I have no clue which one of them pooped that one out. I am still learning. Are you?

Jonathan



Everytime Jonathan strikes his keyboard I am learning.

Thank you.


Michigan Trappers & Predator Callers Association
Public Relations Director
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: grumpyoldman] #1579343
11/05/09 11:04 PM
11/05/09 11:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
trapper
Ohio Wolverine  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Originally Posted By: grumpyoldman
Jonathan, selected sample #3 appears to me to be coyote, I have been seeing the same specimens both north and south of the little town I live in, it looks to me to be crab apple based with whatever else has been ingested at the apple eating time. There are no crab apples trees out of this town and talking with some of the local window lurkers they have been seeing coyotes right in town eating these apples off the ground under said apple trees. I have noticed this same stool as your picture, as far as 21/2 miles north in wheat stubble fields and 2-3 miles south of town on a resivoir dam and in a dry creek bottoms. Again no apple trees except in town, and racoons are basically non exsistant here in this area. I caught a nice pale female coyote on the end of the resivoir dam last night and this was the same scat she left while in the trap.


That is very intertesting. Never thought a coyote would eat apples.
But they are opportunists and no doubt would eat anything easy to get.
Grumpyoldman you're pretty slick when you want to be!!!!!!!!!!
LOL


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: grumpyoldman] #1579372
11/05/09 11:19 PM
11/05/09 11:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Jonathan Offline OP
"Wilson"
Jonathan  Offline OP
"Wilson"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Grumpy, There are coyotes in this territory, but I have never seen evidence of one anywhere in the corridor where this #3 dropping showed up.

I was baffled by its small size, and trying to factor not only its location, but contents on site. I picked it apart piece by piece there and had no definitive clue as to the contents. I didn't take this one home to check it under my binocular microscope. I went back the next day to pick it up for that analysis, but the whole plop was gone! Somebody had to have eaten it. Poof! There wasn't a speck of it left.

Talk about puzzles in the gatherings of reading animal sign language for well over 5 decades, this one totally stumped my band!

When I first pulled it apart on site for a cursory look, I couldn't really tell what was in it at that stage of digestion. Again, the small size of it scrambled my confusion while in hand. With my glasses on, equipped with an old man's bifocals, the closest that I could "guess" what was housed in there was either a husk of some origin from a small "nut" of some type, or a wild fruit skin of some denomination that I have never seen before.

I entertained the notion that it may have been a regurgitated morsel left by that critter, eliminating the possibility it may have been an owl mute - no bone, hair or feathers were present.

Win some, lose some while snooping in the outdoor classroom. #3 will live in infamy as an indelible, mysterious piece of scar tissue on my frontal lobe. And, my hunch is that I will go to my grave without ever knowing.

Jonathan





Camera Gear: Canon EOS 7D-MK-II, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, EF 28-135mm, EF 100-400mm and EF 400mm lenses.



Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Jonathan] #1579385
11/05/09 11:27 PM
11/05/09 11:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,057
maine
big_twinhd Offline
trapper
big_twinhd  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,057
maine
Lets all hope you don't get there too soon Jonathan, considering your the only sane man on t-man. Your threads are always welcome "night school"...



What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving....... ',-,mad
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: big_twinhd] #1579411
11/05/09 11:42 PM
11/05/09 11:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 77
Michigan, Bay City
G
GerryE Offline
trapper
GerryE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 77
Michigan, Bay City
I found some while out scouting a coulple of weeks ago that looked like #3. The only difference was the size. Given the location at the time I figured it was coyote. I picked it apart and recall finding some hair mixed in with what appeared to be almost all apple. It did have the same redish orange color.


Give a lazy man a hard job and he will find a way to make it easy
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: GerryE] #1579465
11/06/09 12:38 AM
11/06/09 12:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Jonathan Offline OP
"Wilson"
Jonathan  Offline OP
"Wilson"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Gerry, Thank you for that astute observation and sharing it!

I live in prime apple orchard country here on Lake Ontario. And, I know for a fact that coyotes, red and grey fox are opportunistic omnivores and will eat all kinds of wild fruit when available earlier during the summer months, including apple "drops" from cultivated orchards then. The apple skins in their droppings during that period are rather pronounce and readily detectable as such.

I've pulled enough of them apart over the years, without tasting the turds to make that determination. The apple stuff in the scat's wake during the summer months is usually complimented with an assortment of hair, tiny rodent bones and grasshopper legs that couldn't be handled by the digestive juices in their gut before parting from and passing through their lower colon on the way to a drop on the ground.

At this time of year, apples are not a priority on the menu from my experiences as a Turdologist of sorts. At least I am not aware of it.

In late October and early November, from my observations at large over the years, canines are more focused on the protein from a meat source to build up energy reserves for winter in the not too distant horizon - namely, rodents of some complexion, rabbits included. A road killed deer is a very convenient bonus offering at that outdoor restaurant. This is an example of a fresh one (a doe) that I found in the ditch last week that they were nibbling on:



The few droppings that I found near it were fox, not coyote. Because of its visibility in the ditch from the air, I know that Turkey Vultures participated in dining on this offering as well. They drool over fresh morsels like this, once they smell it from aloft.

Jonathan









Camera Gear: Canon EOS 7D-MK-II, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, EF 28-135mm, EF 100-400mm and EF 400mm lenses.



Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Jonathan] #1579477
11/06/09 12:46 AM
11/06/09 12:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 342
Central Nebraska
snarer Offline
trapper
snarer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 342
Central Nebraska
While you may be observant of poop you are not of deer. lol That deer is a (button) buck. Sorry had to point that out.

Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: snarer] #1579514
11/06/09 01:18 AM
11/06/09 01:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Jonathan Offline OP
"Wilson"
Jonathan  Offline OP
"Wilson"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Thank you Snarer for bringing that detail to my attention. There is no excuse for missing that on my part, only an indulging feeble explanation at best. Simple - I never noticed it!

It was late in the afternoon on my way home from a long day of scouting, the sun was going down, my eyes and the camera's lens were focused only on the exposed rib gleaninings with a quick scan of a seemingly bald head on that specimen. I calculated a vagrant assumption in haste.

Will you kindly forgive me for missing that one while obviously having a Senior Moment for an excuse after all is said?

Jonathan


Camera Gear: Canon EOS 7D-MK-II, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, EF 28-135mm, EF 100-400mm and EF 400mm lenses.



Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Jonathan] #1579754
11/06/09 09:11 AM
11/06/09 09:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
trapper
Ohio Wolverine  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Originally Posted By: Jonathan
Thank you Snarer for bringing that detail to my attention. There is no excuse for missing that on my part, only an indulging feeble explanation at best. Simple - I never noticed it!

It was late in the afternoon on my way home from a long day of scouting, the sun was going down, my eyes and the camera's lens were focused only on the exposed rib gleaninings with a quick scan of a seemingly bald head on that specimen. I calculated a vagrant assumption in haste.

Will you kindly forgive me for missing that one while obviously having a Senior Moment for an excuse after all is said?


Looks more like the right ear is twisted around to me.
Never saw a button look like that on a young buck.

Jonathan


That's better NO?

lol When I replied I didn't get down below your quote Jonathan sorry.
Not trying to put words in your typeing(mouth).

Last edited by OHIO WOLVERINE; 11/06/09 09:16 AM.

We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Ohio Wolverine] #1580176
11/06/09 03:02 PM
11/06/09 03:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Jonathan Offline OP
"Wilson"
Jonathan  Offline OP
"Wilson"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Before I wipe and conclude this episode, let me share this related story with you in the interim that blends in with this theme. I shared it here once quite some time ago.

At age 12, in 1954, I caught my first red fox in a dirt hole set with a few drops of gland lure and a mouse nest in the bottom of the hole. The fox trap "of the day" in that era was the Victor #2 square jaw coil spring. That started my life long addiction and affection for red fox trapping.

I had the blessed fortune and gift of having Mark Swigert as a mentor, an older professional trapper at the time. He knew E.J. Daily and Stanley Hawbaker (all about the same age,) and he taught me very well.

Mark was a remarkable teacher. I remember a vivid story from one day when he followed me on my line. I spotted what I thought may have been a raccoon dropping because of the seeds in it. Mark picked it up, pulled it apart and described and identified everything that was in it for me. After that diagnostic investigation he told me it was from a gray fox.

I had asked him how he could then tell the difference between a gray fox and red fox dropping. He paused several moments in deep thought and silence, breaking that spell with a smirk before he uttered - "Jonathan, in order to be real positive, you have to taste them." And, I believed him!

He was, after all, an old (late 50's) Adirondack Mountain man - rugged and the grit of the earth. I knew Mother Earth was his sister. I could tell from his weathered, textured face and the wear on his hands. He knew everything about animals, birds, snakes, frogs, toads, insects, trees and shrubs - more than anyone I have met or known in my entire life to this very day.

After he gathered up in musing over my trust in what he just told me about the droppings, he smiled and said, "I've never had to taste one yet. I just know the difference."

As I drop this ink, I am bubbling in the emotions of the cherished memories from what Mark taught me as a young kid - never to be forgotten. I loved that man as a friend and teacher, and have missed him since he passed before I was 16.

Yes, I remember my first red fox as if I just caught it this morning, and that was 54 years ago.

Jonathan


Camera Gear: Canon EOS 7D-MK-II, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, EF 28-135mm, EF 100-400mm and EF 400mm lenses.



Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Jonathan] #1580203
11/06/09 03:22 PM
11/06/09 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 56
New Hampshire
MAUMAU Offline
trapper
MAUMAU  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 56
New Hampshire
What are the correct answers Jonathan?


Be less concerned with where you are going than with the wake you leave behind.
Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: MAUMAU] #1581077
11/06/09 11:18 PM
11/06/09 11:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
Jonathan Offline OP
"Wilson"
Jonathan  Offline OP
"Wilson"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,488
Northwestern New York(Elder)
I am working on my rough draft in summation at this very moment. It might take awhile, as I want to explain my reasons for my answers behind each one. In the meantime, without my analysis, these are my results:

#1 - Regurgitated owl pellet.

#2 - Raccoon

#3 - Unknown: Opossum, skunk, feral cat.

#4 - Deer

#5 - Fox

#6 - Raccoon

#7 - Fox

#8 - Fox

# 9 - Fox

#10 -Raccoon

My intent and purpose for this post was to introduce new and beginning, or younger trappers, to a few animal "signs" that they should be adding to their resumes as they develop in learning as much as they can about animals they seek to trap.

I chose this land animal presentation on purpose because their droppings can be more of a challenge - even for an experienced turdologist. While scouting recently to develop this photo essay, I did not find any coyote droppings to include for a comparison measure to those from what I know to be fox.

About an hour ago, for the first time in two years, I heard coyotes howling in the woods about 1/2 mile from my house. If time permits, I'll snoop around over there tomorrow with camera in hand to see if anybody pooped on that stage, before or after singing the night away.

Don't get over anxious for my finale. I am poking at it for now, and it is getting late in the day for keyboard romping. I have other things to do before I crash for the night.

Jonathan









Camera Gear: Canon EOS 7D-MK-II, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, EF 28-135mm, EF 100-400mm and EF 400mm lenses.



Re: Scatology Sign Language [Re: Jonathan] #1581699
11/07/09 12:56 PM
11/07/09 12:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,436
Corunna Michigan
fur_minator Offline
trapper
fur_minator  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,436
Corunna Michigan
Originally Posted By: Jonathan
I did not find any coyote droppings to include for a comparison measure to those from what I know to be fox.





Jonathan,

Take a look at this one with your experience. I didn't have a quarter for size reference but the diameter appears to be too big for fox. I had Yote tracks this area once every week or two so that is what I determined it to be.

What do you think?




Michigan Trappers & Predator Callers Association
Public Relations Director
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