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#5915872 - 05/31/17 08:57 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2027
Loc: WI
How many did it take to get NR trapping? Did that group get all that they wanted?
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5915895 - 05/31/17 09:42 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: WIMarshRAT]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3110
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
How many did it take to bring forth resolutions to ban trapping? Think most of these guys really care?
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#5915932 - 05/31/17 10:44 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: WIMarshRAT]
The Beav Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11120
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
How many did it take to get NR trapping? Did that group get all that they wanted?


It didn't take any. It went through the legislative process.

And there were Darn few of us that testified during that process.
The WTA wouldn't take a stand and the DNR didn't care one way or the other. But I worked with some every influential people and It happened. I didn't do It on my own but I knew the right people. But I think I'll take credit for It happening.
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#5915977 - 05/31/17 11:29 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2027
Loc: WI
You still know the right people?

Thinking those authors might be looking for your help. Not by their choice. Lol


Edited by WIMarshRAT (05/31/17 11:30 AM)
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5915987 - 05/31/17 11:41 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: The Beav]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3110
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: The Beav
I didn't do It on my own but I knew the right people. But I think I'll take credit for It happening.


And that's a fact.
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We can hoop your beaver mountain man style!

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#5917412 - 06/02/17 05:31 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: WIMarshRAT]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1922
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
You still know the right people?

Thinking those authors might be looking for your help. Not by their choice. Lol


Could it get any worse? Common opener, loss of Winnebago block (shorter season)

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#5917502 - 06/02/17 07:37 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
The Beav Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11120
Loc: Wisconsin
The people that got that done I think have retired from the political arena.
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#5959263 - 07/25/17 10:57 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2027
Loc: WI
Muskrat, nimzy, and bblwi, do any of you see value in having all the authors of muskrat resolutions addressing the fur harvest committee at same time or should we want to keep them separate?

I see the current agenda posted:
http://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/Agenda/2017/Fur081217.pdf
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5959913 - 07/26/17 06:06 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1922
Loc: WI
Could be wise to meet ahead of time and try to come up with something reasonable we all agree on. May simplify things. It aint too far off. Good thinkin Justin.

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#5960090 - 07/26/17 11:11 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: nimzy]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3646
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
To me it makes great sense to meet and come to a workable outcome and then that allows for fewer people to present the results. When addressing a decision making group you don't want or need a whole posse of people interjecting opinions that work should be done prior to the meeting.

Season opening and closing dates are to me a continuum starting in the south and progressing to our north when it comes to both fur quality and open versus hard water access so to me the discussions need to reflect that continuum and be done as a whole.
If we are looking at increasing opportunity and new trappers then access is a major concern or issue
If we are going to concentrate on fur quality (average date of catch) then later dates are more important than easier access.

If we were interested in some science or survey opportunities on a trapper level we could run some seasons with alternating starting and or ending dates and compile the information to see how much impact access or variation in open and closure dates have on harvest numbers, fur grades as a percentage of harvest etc.

Just a hypothetical example
2018 Rat opener 3rd Saturday Oct
2019 Rat opener 4th Saturday Oct
2020 Rat opener 5th Saturday or 1st Sat in Nov
The above are for northern zone be that 2 or 3 The lower zones could adjust accordingly
A northern trapper could then plan rat trapping for the season based on going early or waiting for ice
The disadvantage of early openers up north in particular is that one would have 2-3 weeks of rat trapping before beaver and otter are open and the chances of catching these are pretty high in many areas.
The above could be rotated more than once. One has to understand that Mother Nature does not read the regulation book and weather can change everything quickly and for a whole season.
Bryce

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#5960154 - 07/26/17 12:36 PM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: bblwi]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3646
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I just received a letter in the mail from the WCC stating that the resolution I put forth in MTC Co regarding 3 zones for muskrats will have a hearing on Saturday August 12, 2017 at 10 AM. My resolution is # 360217. I see that resolution 220217 is in with mine as well. There are are two other resolutions regarding muskrat seasons as well, they are # 200317 and 710317.

I do plan to attend that session. I will put together my rationale for my resolution over the next few weeks.

Bryce

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#5974283 - 08/13/17 08:24 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1922
Loc: WI
Thanks to all who contribute and support this effort.

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#5974336 - 08/13/17 09:35 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: nimzy]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3110
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Well, yea. Nice job you done there Chris. Long drive home and lots to think about afterwards.

Thinking this might have been a complete waste of time, effort, and energy. You hung in there fairly well I must say. I was just fine 'til it was made clear that decades of the three-zone concept was apparently undone by one person.

That little tidbit of a revelation yesterday was definitely the final straw.

Ya know, I've let a lot of things slide over me over the years with respect to this discussion and others. Thought maybe I'd seen the worst of it when I came to the WTA rondy the year colony traps became legal to pick up my order of one hundred 5"x5" collapsible colony traps, after being assured by certain responsible persons that the 6"x6" collapsibles would be illegal. And as I was driving back towards camp a few minutes later the Beav informed me "they" had changed their minds and would allow the 6"x6" collapsible.

But this "looking out for #1" attitude which was present at the meeting and apparently extends to the top has really taken me by surprise. I had a little more faith in "the system", but now it's all starting to make sense. Or maybe I've just turned a blind eye to it all over the years.

I'm letting this sink in for a few days.

Then it's going to be time to gear up.

_________________________
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We can hoop your beaver mountain man style!

http://www.riverinefurtraders.com/hoop%20your%20pelt/index_hoop_your_pelt.html

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#5974359 - 08/13/17 10:15 AM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2027
Loc: WI
Don't lose the faith yet Muskrat. If there was one lesson to come out of that meeting, it was not to rely on one individual. The only thing that happens then is we all end up disappointed.

After you left, colony traps were brought up. Unfortunately, it wasn't on the agenda so they couldn't act on it, but here is the brief synopsis.

They asked about removing fencing restriction and the head warden noted he would love nothing more than to have trappers get that restriction removed. It is clear as mud and needs to be eliminated. No push back from our wildlife folks. Broad support from committee to remove the culvert restriction as well. But no action could be taken because I let every single one of you down.

First I screwed up submitted the resolution. Second, I knew it had to be on the agenda for them to act, but even though I talked with the chairman of the committee, I failed to ask him to put it on the agenda. I struck out again. Maybe next year, I can get a partner in crime on this colony trap resolution to ensure we get it in the process and get it pushed across the finish line. They are ready for this change, but we didn't take what they wanted to give us.

But back to the season structure. We will get the opportunity to vote this spring on a three zone proposal that has a slightly earlier season for the north and an extension for all based on those three zones. The authors of those resolutions won't be able to pass that spring question on their own. It's going to take a few more than just those four.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5974540 - 08/13/17 02:35 PM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: WIMarshRAT]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3646
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
My first rodeo in the WCC resolution process and yes it is a process and political as is anything with people involved. I tried to stick to weather and climate differences and similarities along with some science but it is hard to not note the strong political forces in managing our natural resources.
Some political things are pretty much facts of life for most, such as always opening on Saturdays that narrows the date options a lot but is what a huge majority want.
I don't have trouble with bring back the end a few weeks when waterfowl enter the picture. March 31st in the north and a week earlier each zone southward makes sense to me.
I was trying to find some ice out dates for Lake Winnebago but could not find any averages.

It is the opener that seems to hold the most long term tension and concerns. My time spent researching northern WI weather demonstrated that many areas of northern WI have limited opportunities to harvest rats with many of the areas receiving substantial snowfall early and thus preventing hard and thick ice early and enough snow to cover runs and pushups etc. In some areas open water may be the only trapping opportunity and the north and the south have significant differences as to fur quality and weather options in mid to late October and early November.
A single zone opener makes the most political sense and the least fur bearer and climate sense. Choices need to be made and discussions held on how those play our or are resolved.
The process did help me understand better that simplification was the opportunistic decoy for long held resentments regarding the 3 zone muskrat season. At least now we can call it what it is and the first condition to helping resolve an issue is to claim it and not deny it.

I am more optimistic than you may be at this point in time Mike, but this issue will need review and lifting up frequently until we decide a best option.
Managing people is always more difficult than managing resources.

Bryce

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#5974729 - 08/13/17 06:13 PM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: bblwi]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1922
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: bblwi

I don't have trouble with bring back the end a few weeks when waterfowl enter the picture. March 31st in the north and a week earlier each zone southward makes sense to me.

Bryce


I have to disagree with this illusion. On my marsh trapline waterfowl is in far greater danger during the fall open water season. You see, at that time of the year I don't get many alternate opportunities to harvest muskrat. Huts and feedbeds are the go to marsh sets. With this method, it is not unusual to take an occasional incidental duck. As for the other side of winter, testosterone charged males respond well to alternative methods, away from structures and tested safe to waterfowl. Last year I took approx. 850 muskrat between 2/15 and 3/15. I captured 0/zero incidental waterfowl. I experienced three days of open water trapping before the marsh refroze on or around March 10. after which, it took me two days to get my traps chopped out.

IMO if we are truly concerned about incidental waterfowl we need to look more closely at fall trapping.

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#5974743 - 08/13/17 06:27 PM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1922
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: Muskrat
Long drive home and lots to think about afterwards.



My mind is reeling....I wish it was a 3 round fight.

Ill sum up what the way I saw it.

Liberal start with a conservative close. However big improvements because I can not stress enough the value of each day during the thaw.

Care to analyze the turnout?


Edited by nimzy (08/13/17 06:29 PM)

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#5974753 - 08/13/17 06:37 PM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: nimzy]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3110
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Analysis? We were doomed before we got there.
_________________________
Lifetime member NTA and WTA.

We can hoop your beaver mountain man style!

http://www.riverinefurtraders.com/hoop%20your%20pelt/index_hoop_your_pelt.html

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#5974803 - 08/13/17 07:29 PM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: Muskrat]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2027
Loc: WI
Doomed because of one guys feelings?
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5974804 - 08/13/17 07:32 PM Re: Discussion on Wisconsin's muskrat/mink seasons [Re: WIMarshRAT]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3110
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
One?
_________________________
Lifetime member NTA and WTA.

We can hoop your beaver mountain man style!

http://www.riverinefurtraders.com/hoop%20your%20pelt/index_hoop_your_pelt.html

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