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#5877112 - 04/14/17 10:42 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2038
Loc: WI
WW, I think you are on to something, but just not sure that is it. I know where one is happening in a couple weeks. You want the location, I would gladly give you the location.

If your county delegates are not working with the local clubs, state organizations, and fishery, time to run or better yet invite them to come to your club. But I am guessing most are because most are members of those organizations. See, the same guys that do all the work for those organizations tend to be the same guys running the Congress IMO.

But you are right in that there is a large number of individuals that have given up on the Congress. What type of things would help restore your faith or more importantly, get you to attend a meeting?


Edited by WIMarshRAT (04/14/17 10:55 PM)
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#5877142 - 04/14/17 11:39 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 2188
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
See, the same guys that do all the work for those organizations tend to be the same guys running the Congress IMO.

Interesting point. It just so happens in my county that 3 of the citizens on the Congress also happen to serve on our county's CDAC. Another Conservation congress elected rep in our county is actively involved in another local conservation organization. 1 of the guys that serves on our CDAC & CC recently went and spoke to another county non-profit conservation group about buckthorn eradication. 1 of the other guys that serves on both committees put on a presentation about Falconry to yet another local conservation group that I belong to. The final guy on our Conservation congress volunteers time to help the Blind bowhunt. 1 of the guys that recently got off our Congress is also actively involved in our County's Bluebird club. And now that I think about it, another 1 that recently got off (he moved to a neighboring county) served another local nonprofit...the Sportman's/Shaftbusters club. It does seem to be a theme when you think about it, at least in my county.

There are a lot of people disengaged in such public meetings though, a lot. Partly because they think it's an effort in futility, so I hear. I don't know what the answer is to engage more folks in public discourse. I think a lot of people are just anti DNR. Now that the days of Earn a buck are over (hopefully), it seems like citizens in my area are warming to the DNR again. In fact attendance at our annual Conservation Congress meeting has actually grown tremendously over the past ~10 years. Much of that might be due to the fact that our old Wildlife Biologist quit about 5 years ago though, and the new 1 is probably the best in the state.
I go to a lot of meetings and I think there's been a shift in attitude at DNR over the past several years. All of our officials, fishery forestry and law enforcement included, have an impressive way of conducting themselves, and I no longer see the tension that supposedly used to be commonplace at public conservation hearings. So in my opinion some things are looking up, some maybe not. I'm ~ok as long as I don't hear people grumble, yet not show up when they do have a chance to potentially create some positive change.


Edited by AJE (04/14/17 11:45 PM)
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#5877239 - 04/15/17 07:32 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1948
Loc: WI
thanks for the explanation WW.

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#5877451 - 04/15/17 01:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
WalleyeWacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 394
Loc: S. Wisconsin
I went to CC web site, amazed they have one. Don't have time today to read much.But mystified about letter on paper license. Did CC help approve that complete failure? Did they try to stop it or fix it? Just BS to have paper tags that promote violations and not tagging anything. Were there any questions about that? I didn't apply for fisher or otter tags cause I could not trap last fall, were they paper?

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#5877470 - 04/15/17 02:19 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2038
Loc: WI
Thanks for engaging WW. Always enjoy different viewpoints.

The tags were the normal durable tags that they send in the mail. You can thank the WTA and to a lesser degree the Congress for ensuring that exists for trappers.

One thing to note is the legislators and governor really have the final say. The Congress acts as a advisory body to the NRB and DNR.
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#5878160 - 04/16/17 11:01 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
WalleyeWacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 394
Loc: S. Wisconsin
That is good, durable tags. I can understand paper license but give us durable deer tags. Turkey season should be all spring and bag should be 2 minimum. I guess u have to tag if u r going to have a max.

You just said it advisory! With little influence!

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#5878186 - 04/16/17 11:37 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2038
Loc: WI
WW, watch the thread on quality of experience if you have interest in turkeys in Wisconsin.

Sure, I said the Conservation Congress is advisory. You have state legislators. I am not going to give the Congress more authority than them.
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#5878204 - 04/16/17 12:13 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 2188
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
It's hard to know what rules can be made by DNR and/or NRB, or if the legislature needs to approve it. I don't have a specific change or proposal in mind, but I'm just saying it is confusing to me what sort of authority DNR and NRB have, in terms of as who can approve what changes, or if the legislator or governor have to sign off on changes.


Edited by AJE (04/16/17 12:14 PM)
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#5878575 - 04/16/17 09:24 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2038
Loc: WI
Some things are spelled out by state statue and other items give authority to the DNR and they use administrative code to spell it out. In order to figure out how to change, you need to understand if you are working with administrative code or state statue.

You will always need legislators to change state statue. For example, the wolf season is set by state statue. When Conservation Congress passed resolution to move wolf season back due to issues, they had to work with legislators to change the state statue. Both the WTA and Congress worked on it with legislators.

Administrative code can be done with just the Congress and NRB and DNR. WI maintains a nice website to help you determine if the item is administrative code or state statue. http://legis.wisconsin.gov/

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#5878716 - 04/17/17 07:28 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3746
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
How invasive of each persons privacy do we want to be? With our new system using our customer ID numbers we can check or trace all of the licenses, permits, boats, etc. that a person buys, has our utilizes. There could be parameters created that would allow or disallow voting on those issues for everyone involved be they online or in person if we wanted that as well.
With the current levels of attendance it would not take much increase in total votes to drastically change outcomes or results. In reality however neither does it to change many state and local legislators when voter turnouts are below 30% as well.
What has happened in the past with many resource based issues is that many did not like the DNR policy or administrative rule system and then chose to initiate change through the legislature. The jury is still out if we have chosen a system that is better for managing wildlife our not, but it sure has made the process much more political at the expense of science and research. When the day comes we need to defend our consumptive use policies from a political aspect with our trending demographics and social changes we may not be spending much time at all worrying about zones, starting dates, access etc. we may be doing these things virtually if at all.

Bryce

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#5878733 - 04/17/17 07:48 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: bblwi]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3174
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: bblwi
What has happened in the past with many resource based issues is that many did not like the DNR policy or administrative rule system and then chose to initiate change through the legislature. The jury is still out if we have chosen a system that is better for managing wildlife our not, but it sure has made the process much more political at the expense of science and research. When the day comes we need to defend our consumptive use policies from a political aspect with our trending demographics and social changes we may not be spending much time at all worrying about zones, starting dates, access etc. we may be doing these things virtually if at all.

Bryce


Agree 100%
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#5879867 - 04/18/17 12:04 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2038
Loc: WI
Looks like Fur Harvest Committee can spend a little time on the muskrat season this year.

http://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/sp...nsCommittee.pdf

It doesn't show the actual resolutions, but it looks like they were all posted on here based on the counties that submitted a resolution. Everyone that contributed to the thread had their hand in it.


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#5879902 - 04/18/17 12:58 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Alex the dog Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 517
Loc: Valders, WI
Pulled out most of the trapping related proposals submitted in the various counties this year. It should not be lost that there were 2 proposals to end trapping and one nearly passed in Marquette County which I would consider fairly rural.

Dave
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#5879917 - 04/18/17 01:16 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 2188
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
What the heck is going on over in Marquette Co...that's terrible.
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#5879921 - 04/18/17 01:18 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Alex the dog]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3174
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Alex the dog
Pulled out most of the trapping related proposals submitted in the various counties this year. It should not be lost that there were 2 proposals to end trapping and one nearly passed in Marquette County which I would consider fairly rural.


Interesting, isn't it? A thread to deliver a resolution (or resolutions) regarding a change in the muskrat zones/seasons to the CC statewide gathered nearly nineteen and a half thousand views and 21 pages of posts on this forum resulting in six resolutions being submitted statewide in six of seventy-two counties. Pathetic.

Meanwhile, the antis submitted resolutions to end trapping in two counties and nearly carried it off.

I've about had a bellyful of the excuses, blame game, finger pointing, "don't get involved" syndrome, you name it . . whatever reason you can dream up why the uninvolved can't drag their dead butts to a 2-hour meeting one night of the year . . .

This thing goes online voting it's only a matter of time. Hopefully by then I'll be too old to care anymore, but, I doubt it.

Don't know what else to add here. Hopefully whatever reason those of you who decided to not get involved is worthy of you eventually losing the trapping freedoms you enjoy today, not to mention what will be left for your kids and grandkids.

Pathetic.



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#5879924 - 04/18/17 01:20 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 2188
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Amen Muskrat. Well said.
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#5879952 - 04/18/17 01:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3746
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
Muskrat, on the bright side of things, just look how few people it actually takes to make huge changes in regs, seasons, laws etc. It is all a matter of who seizes the opportunity the fastest with the most energy and drive. At this point in time it does not appear to be sports persons in general and or even sporting organizations. Many organizations choose not to take tough stances because this may hurt membership and or donations etc. It is no wonder people go rogue and argue for what they want and not what may be in the best interest for the majority or for the resource.

Take wolf seasons for one example our zest to kill wolves brought in legislation that gave us mid October seasons which brought us into huge conflicts with multitudes of other outdoor users in the woods. It also brought to those that were successful how crappy a 46 lbs. YOY female wolf pup with no fur really looks when you want to spend $1,000 on a full body mount. It think if we would have used a bit more patience and common sense and had a better seasonal plan we may still be harvesting wolves today.

Bryce

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#5879966 - 04/18/17 02:15 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 2188
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
I didn't hear about any huge conflicts in my area Bryce. I trapped in zones 5 & 6.
The conflicts heard in my county was that not enough wolves were taken.
There were other reasons the Fed judge shut the season down of course. An ~11/1 start date is probably wise. If your area saw major conflict in October, I'm not sure the changing start date will fix that.
The ability for a few people to make significant change can be good...or bad Bryce, such as if the small group of enthusiasts are influential an-ti's.
I understand your post though.


Edited by AJE (04/18/17 02:55 PM)
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#5879989 - 04/18/17 02:40 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 2038
Loc: WI
Bryce, another really good post.

Muskrat, I am only disappointed one didn't get submitted in the north, but outside of that, I would say it was a success. If we would have personally asked, it probably would have been done. After all, we had them lined up last year and then said we didn't need them. They were probably following that example again.

I was surprised to see someone try to tackle badger. Wonder if they got the idea from this forum? I knew that was such a tough battle to get it to pass that I probably should have spent a little more time arming the folks with the science on why it was a good reason to open a season on our university's mascot. I will be interested to see the resolution when it posts.

AJE, those resolutions that get passed go to a committee. The committee can kill them. Just like normal government. Unless the antis get an upper hand on those committees, most never see the light of day which goes back to those that ride, decide.
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#5880039 - 04/18/17 03:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1948
Loc: WI
I' was actually impressed with the results. Any resolution carriers still have rats for from the first month of season? Pm me, I gots a plan:)

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