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#5880042 - 04/18/17 03:59 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
handitrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1557
Loc: WI
Shows how bad the north really wants their open water rat trapping.

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#5880339 - 04/18/17 08:31 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Kelly Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 1423
Loc: N. Wisconsin
I'm sorry. Got very busy Monday getting ready for our trip, which we are still on. Was not near a computer till after I got home from the CC hearings. It was then that I saw Muskrat's post of a finished resolution. Was never thru the resolution process before so didn't know how to write one up.

Sorry Muskrat!
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#5880458 - 04/18/17 09:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I live in Manitowoc County so we had no wolf conflicts here as none were trapped here. We have wolves but few wolves.
The areas that had the most negative interactions were in the far north where wolves are common, land is public and trapping pressure on forest roads was intense along with other users, mostly fall color tourists and grouse hunters with medium sized dogs.
I also believe the spirit of the harvest was changed when permits could be given to other adults and people sitting in offices 200 miles from the catch site could drive up and shoot the wolves in the traps with their tags on them.
The real question to me is do we want to create a good harvest opportunity that has a quality component to it (very subjective I know) or do we just want to slap together a harvest opportunity that reduces the wolf number.
One of the more disappointing aspects of the last wolf season for managers of the wolves was the area or zones that had limited wolf populations but wolves were in numbers that created several problems did not anywhere meet their quotas as persons opted to head for areas that had a lot more wolves but lower quotas as those were zones that were able to handle more wolves with fewer negative impacts and those areas were shut down quickly and in many cases over harvested significantly. That may well have been a deal breaker for the federal judge as we were taking twice as many wolves from areas that were designated as areas where wolves would or could be tolerated at certain levels.

Bryce

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#5880468 - 04/18/17 10:10 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Some good points Bryce.

I was 1 of those negatively effected by the overharvest in some zones. It closed zone 6 prematurely in season 3. I was in hot pursuit of some wolves when the season got cut short. DNR really had no choice at that point, but yes, I don't think the judge liked some zones going over. I think even DNR was shocked some of the zones filled up in ~3 days.

Some grouse hunters may have been effected but there would have been impacts of some form in Nov too.

Overcompetition from trappers was a challenge on the state land I started on in zone 5. The ones I encountered were respectful at least. It got a little chaotic. The 1 day I pulled up to go check a trap and a guy that had seen my trap had walked past it and set his own. He came out carrying his wolf that morning as I pulled up to park.
The state had its hands full managing that wolf hunt but I feel they did fairly well considering how new it was. Some changes would have been needed had we of had a season 4. It wasn't long after I finished filling out my survey when the judge halted it. Within a month or so of that, the state was ready to start redoing its wolf management plan, so the relisting was a bummer in more ways than 1.

I guess where I'm going with this is if we get another chance, maybe the Conservation Congress can help advise DNR with a new plan.


Edited by AJE (04/18/17 10:26 PM)
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#5880491 - 04/18/17 10:32 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
Several legislators approached the WTA leadership after the last season, wanting to change starting dates and season structure etc. They did not want to listen at all in the beginning when advice was offered to not do it the way it went down. Some times one has to let people get what they wish for and then they can find out how poorly it works out. I think that when the harvest ban is lifted there will be more players at the upper levels of several organizations that will be involved in how the structure of the harvest will evolve. One of the bigger issues that needs to be dealt with early on is what are the population goals for specific areas or zones and how might that impact the ecosystem and the harvest structure. If we change the harvest structure the success rates of those would need to be modeled and or monitored so that goals can be obtained and sustained. Wild prey species can and do adjust to new predator threats and infusions. Domestic species do not as they are limited by what man decides how to manage them.

Bryce

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#5880527 - 04/19/17 12:02 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1962
Loc: WI
If there was ever a time to manage hunters/trappers, it was with the wolf harvest. It pains me to say that, but I really started to believe it was the right thing to do for us.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5880546 - 04/19/17 02:39 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1839
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
If there was ever a time to manage hunters/trappers, it was with the wolf harvest. It pains me to say that, but I really started to believe it was the right thing to do for us.


Manage or educate? Id rather be educated, least that way I can make better decisions on my own out there. Trappers are like any other wild critter, hard to manage LOL.

I know whos trying to manage me, I guess the question is who is gonna educate me?

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#5880549 - 04/19/17 03:10 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2935
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: nimzy
. . . . I know whos trying to manage me, I guess the question is who is gonna educate me?


You've been saying that since you were in kindergarten Mr. Nimzy! What a handful you must've been!

grin
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#5880638 - 04/19/17 07:02 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1839
Loc: WI
I usually meant well.

Muskrat, I wasn't intending to take a jab at trapper ed.

More the old school mentality of "it is legal" thus its right, my right! Many of our challenges could be resolved with some reflection and common sense. As far as trophies, it seems like the pursuit of those kills brain cells?

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#5880642 - 04/19/17 07:05 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2935
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
I didn't perceive that to be a jab at TE. Just having fun with ya.
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We hoop beaver!!

http://www.riverinefurtraders.com

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#5880726 - 04/19/17 08:24 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: mn north of blakely
Originally Posted By: nimzy
As far as trophies, it seems like the pursuit of those kills brain cells?


Oh yeah!

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#5880821 - 04/19/17 10:44 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1962
Loc: WI
March Rat = Trophy. Now I am starting to make sense of it all. grin

Lots of things align nimzy so you have to overcome real life experienced. Sometimes the education is what is creating the problem because experience can be a great teacher.

Take the first wolf harvest. Zones with low quotas filled fast so the guys learned they needed to set harder at the opening bell the following season in those zones. Again, this was predictable and so where the incidents it created. It is one of the reasons that legislators are coming around to the WTA. They have been talking about those issues long before they ever trapped a wolf in this state.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5880831 - 04/19/17 10:55 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
True, in fact I wonder how many traps some of those guys were setting. I mean that was crazy how some zones filled (or overfilled) in a few days.
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#5880889 - 04/19/17 11:50 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I don't know how many most set but as the statewide coordinator for Trapper Ed I got dozens of phone calls from permit winners looking for classes and many commented that they were buying or had bought a couple dozen wolf size traps so lets do some what ifs.
1,000 permits lets say 700 of those decided to trap and not hunt for a wolf Lets use 10 traps per trapper or 70,000 traps
Lets just use public land WI has 15% of its land base as public land, lets say that 75% of that is located north of Hwy 64 (where most wolf trapping did occur).
WI is 54,000 square miles which makes about 7,600 square miles public and about 6,000 square miles is north of 64
Lets assume that 90% of the traps or 63,000 were set on road ways, be they town, county or forest roads. Roads would make up about 3% of the total square miles or that would put the 63,000 traps in about 1890 square miles or about or 33 wolf sets per 640 acres or a trap 19 acres. Being that most would be in a linear narrow pattern that could be a lot of traps and it was.

For sure this is a wild assumption but I don't believe this scenario is far from what happened in many areas from what I heard talking with people that traveled to set wolf sets. With most realizing that zone closure in many areas was certain it became a race and I for one feel left a bad mark on trapping for all species. To me the race to trap a 100 plus wolves because many hate wolves have done us far more harm than good and we will need to be a lot more aware of what we do when we enter into this in the future.

Bryce

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#5880891 - 04/19/17 11:50 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2286
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: AJE


I was 1 of those negatively effected by the overharvest in some zones. It closed zone 6 prematurely in season 3.
when the season got cut short.

Some grouse hunters may have been effected but there would have been impacts of some form in Nov too.

Overcompetition from trappers was a challenge on the state land I started on in zone 5.


I don't think overharvest is the right word .
Everyone knew the quota was a guide line , season could end any time when it got close to the quota or if it went past it some .
So saying prematurely is not in play ,as there was no ending date .

Don't see how grouse hunters would of been affected by the Wolf season , if so they would of been just as affected by coyote trappers or any trapping .

As far as Overcompetition, if you think so ,time to move , how much state land can their be in zone 5 , not alot compared to the north .
I though zone 6 was one of the last zones to close also , wasn't it open for almost 2 months ?
_________________________


Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

.

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#5880938 - 04/19/17 12:19 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
I trapped 'til 12/5 in zone 6. It was a positive experience, that wolf trapping pursuit (except for the 1 day I had 4 MB650s stolen on county land).
Funny you mention 10 traps Bryce. That's what I used. And that special course Irwin put on was great by the way.
I don't necessarily view it in terms of a race to kill an animal people hate. I suppose it was looked at in that light by some. Naturally it became sort of a race. The opportunity to trap a wolf, to many, would be the ultimate high. But not a trophy in a bad sense of the word. I viewed the seasons as a positive, a win-win. I think it was responsible management. Were there things that could be better about it, maybe. I don't think it hurt the image of trappers. I suppose there were some hunters frustrated that trappers used most of the tags I guess.
I'm not complaining or blaming anyone that zone 6 closed without it's quota being met. I had plenty of opportunity. The state made the right decision by doing so. And it's not the trappers fault that certain zone(s) went over their quota. I'm not saying competition in zone 5 was a huge issue. I used the word challenge. I guess I meant to say it was a competetive challenge. Trapping in general is a challenge. It's all part of the pursuit. As I mentioned, everyone I witnessed was friendly and respectful. I can't blame the guy for walking further in than me and getting a wolf.
If we get another season, various groups could maybe provide input, like someone on here said, including perhaps Cons Congress.


Edited by AJE (04/19/17 01:17 PM)
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#5880950 - 04/19/17 12:27 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: mn north of blakely
There is no such thing as "overcompetition". Well unless the intended goal is to hand out participation ribbons and not first place medals.

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#5881028 - 04/19/17 01:16 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Steven 49er]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I don't hate wolves but if we want to state that we want to manage the resource(wolves) or whatever than our rhetoric needs to reflect more of that type of language than what is commonly stated in discussion or print by many outdoor users and citizens.
One of the ways to reduce the zone race aspect could be to keep zones with harvest quotas but then establish time frames or periods where harvesters would be in that zone. I know that is restrictive but we need to decide how we want to manage the harvest almost as much as how many we choose to harvest.

The highest density of wolves in WI can be where the tolerance level for wolves is the lowest, which means over time we will have embedded and long term populations of wolves in areas that can sustain a lot more wolves then will be on the landscape. That scenario will almost always lead to a viable, healthy disease free population of low density and a place where harvest opportunities will be available long term.

Bryce

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#5881044 - 04/19/17 01:25 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2286
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
I have hunted mountain lions in Montana and it is run almost like our wolf season was , I though it was well run .
If the quota gets filled you can go into another unit that is not .

I don't think time frames would work out .
If there were 2 time frames in each zone , they would have to cut the quota in half for each time frame .
I see what your getting at though .

If they had an early time frame and a late time frame , myself I would be taking the late one , the early one is too early for my taste .
I'll take the season that starts the day after deer gun season . grin
_________________________


Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

.

Top
#5882013 - 04/20/17 10:51 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1962
Loc: WI
I would prefer to leave zones 1, 3, and 6 with existing start. Move the start of 2,4, and 5 back to after deer season. I would leave the tag good for any zone.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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