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#5873938 - 04/11/17 04:52 PM Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings
corky Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 2356
Loc: Three Lakes,WI 65
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#5873943 - 04/11/17 04:55 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Dang, that online voting concept passed.
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#5873955 - 04/11/17 05:08 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
It passed popular vote, but was split on counties carried I think. Sometimes that can represent struggles going forward for a resolution as it could struggle to win over delegates from counties that opposed. Did you go and speak in opposition of it?
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#5873970 - 04/11/17 05:20 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Yes, I spoke in depth against it. Even had a guy come up afterwards and say I raised good points. My county voted it down.
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#5874014 - 04/11/17 06:16 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
In many cases the county votes have more impact than the popular votes. We vote by county at the convention. Delegates are allowed to change their county votes if they receive new information that leads them to change the vote. That's where the debating comes in.

Moosetrot

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#5874027 - 04/11/17 06:27 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
The online voting thing is going to be a dogfight at the Convention. 35 counties Yes, 35 counties No Tied in 2 counties.
In my decades of being on the Congress I can't remember ever having seen that before.

Glad to see the scanning question passed, as did the opening of the Van Loon for beaver and otter.

Moosetrot

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#5874225 - 04/11/17 08:59 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
DecoyMacoy Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/01/16
Posts: 59
Loc: Black Creek, Wisconsin
Crane hunting passed for 2nd or 3rd time. Sure would be nice if a legislator would take this up. A management plan by the DNR is already written, all we need is a state law passed saying we can hunt them.

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#5874227 - 04/11/17 09:00 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
A guy at our meeting fought the crane hunt. He said some will inadvertantly shoot a whooping crane.
Another guy argued they can do damage to new corn fields and thus Sandhill's should be hunted.
I didn't expect a proposed crane hunt to be the hot topic last night.


Edited by AJE (04/11/17 09:02 PM)
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#5874238 - 04/11/17 09:06 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
I brought up the management plan last night. That was just before someone in the crowd said she would not like to have a Sandhill season because they are so hard to distinguish from Whoopers....that got me talking again. It passed in La Crosse County.

Moosetrot

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#5874250 - 04/11/17 09:14 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
The question about year round cable restraint utilization for nuisance coyote trappers caught me off guard. Intriguing. I always thought the reason cable restraints have such a tight time window is due to fear of catching a bear.? I'd love to be able to use CR's the 2nd 1/2 of Feb and into March on my land.
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#5874311 - 04/11/17 09:53 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin

Originally Posted By: AJE
I always thought the reason cable restraints have such a tight time window is due to fear of catching a bear.?


Your kidding ,right !

Bears !
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#5874314 - 04/11/17 09:58 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
What is the reason?


Edited by AJE (04/11/17 11:05 PM)
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#5874462 - 04/12/17 06:12 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
reduce conflict with hunting dogs
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#5874498 - 04/12/17 07:20 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Muskrat]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Hey Moosetrot! Van Loon Bottoms beaver trapping passes by one vote! The Black Otter once again prevails.
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#5874572 - 04/12/17 08:28 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
It was a close popular election but not nearly as close in terms of counties carried which should help it continue on...
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#5874575 - 04/12/17 08:33 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: AJE
Dang, that online voting concept passed.


If online voting becomes the norm, IMO, "things" will never be the same again. As a 40 plus-year attendee, I've grown weary at the lack of interest and attendance at county meetings by sportsmen and sportswomen, coupled with the rise of the anti-consumptive crowd. As I looked around at the meager showing Monday night, I guesstimated the average age of the attendees to be my own, mid-60s.

I recall meetings in Sauk County back in the late 70s/early 80s with the deer issues that had fellas standing in the halls outside the room. Plenty of discussion, points, counterpoints, etc. Now it's fairly much cut and dried, with a few giving testimony and opinion.

Those sportsmen and sportswomen who choose not to attend have their own reasons, obviously. The uniqueness of Wisconsin's CC has been lost on them, and for whatever reason they've chosen to not attend and interact, they will be taking that to the grave with them.

I'm disillusioned by the lack of participation by hunters, fishers, and trappers in this state. Even spring WTA meetings used to have zest back in the days of the Juneau County Sportsman's Club. Started at 9 or so in the morning and would last all day. Back when we needed a Sergeant at Arms to keep the peace. Fellas remember Doug Gorst?

So now we're on the verge of online voting. The antis are good at rallying their troops, especially behind closed doors on the keyboard. I don't have much faith in the younger bunch of outdoors folks. The electronic idols have taken over their lives. Think they've got time to vote on outdoor issues they don't participate much in?

Concern with outdoor issues sometimes doesn't kick in for most folks 'til they're in their 40s when they realize what they valued when younger is slowly slipping away. And there are plenty of folks in their sixties on up who have "given up" and are content to sit on the couch and reminisce about the good old days, whether they were really good or not. Don't expect much out of them.

Who will show up at CC county meetings if/when things change?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsu2oASd6x8



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#5874602 - 04/12/17 09:07 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
I share your feelings Muskrat. It seems that the interest in partipation in the outdoors is waning, unless it involves hero pictures on the web.

The online voting will mean the end of the marvelous heritage of the Spring Hearings and the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. I can assure you that I will do everything I can to not let thathhappen, as will a good number of folks that understand the value of public participation as espoused by Aldo Leopold.

Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm.

Moosetrot

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#5874640 - 04/12/17 10:01 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Kelly Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 1417
Loc: N. Wisconsin
I'm continually surprised at those who attend till they fill out the questionnaire, then leave before any discussion even starts.

One spoke up about the online voting that anyone buying hunting/fishing license should have a right to vote even if they can not make the hearing. But how do we limit it to just those?
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#5874642 - 04/12/17 10:02 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Muskrat's point is right on...thinking about what I observed Monday night: not many under 55 years old in attendance. It's 2 hours a year...I don't get it. Then if I hear people complain, I often wonder: Why weren't they at the meeting.


Edited by AJE (04/12/17 10:03 AM)
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#5874643 - 04/12/17 10:03 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Kelly Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 1417
Loc: N. Wisconsin
Completely agree with Muskrat that this process will end if anyone can vote online.
_________________________
Enjoy Mother Nature's Glory, everyday!

Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!


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#5874645 - 04/12/17 10:04 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Those county's that voted in favor of online voting were probably ones where people like us weren't there to mount a vocal stand against it.


Edited by AJE (04/12/17 10:05 AM)
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#5874649 - 04/12/17 10:07 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin

There goes the neighborhood along with the whole state . confused
_________________________


Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

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#5874658 - 04/12/17 10:31 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: RiversNorth13]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
There may well be three very important aspects to the online voting aspect

1. Those that voted in favor may not have totally understood the ramifications of that type of access may bring
2. There may have been several in attendance that voted for this because they were looking at future planning and how to impact voting
3. There may well have been an attempt to promote this with the idea of hoping it would decrease even further the impact the WCC can have on wildlife management issues and concerns.

Bryce

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#5874664 - 04/12/17 10:49 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
Keep in mind also that given the structure of the Spring Hearings, non-Wisconsin citizens are allowed to vote on theQuestions and introduced Resolutions. IF online voting IS allowed there is a very good chance of votes coming from across the nation for or against proposed regulations and/or outdoor activities and pursuits. These are some of the reasons I have said that this, in my opinion, was the most important Question in the Spring Hearings.

Trying not to sound like Chicken Little, but if we don't beat this thing I am afraid it is going to beat us.

Moosetrot

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#5874666 - 04/12/17 10:53 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
That's dumb to allow out of state votes. Those that voted in favor of onine voters failed to understand the ramifications.
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#5874672 - 04/12/17 11:04 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin

Another California!
Next thing we'll be a cage only state .
_________________________


Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

.

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#5874675 - 04/12/17 11:06 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
I bit my tongue and just listened at our meeting.

IMO, I think there is ways to make it work. The key is just to ensure you limit online voting from ruling the roost. Personally, unless they have a license, I would argue they shouldn't be allowed to vote online and I would prefer it to be a patron license. Sorry Muskrat, but pay to play might be needed here. Convenience has a fee.

Those individuals would just need to be filtered into their own district so they can't be the majority. If the virtual district wants representation, then they need to elect delegates and participate in the old fashion way by showing up to those committee/leadership meetings.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5874677 - 04/12/17 11:08 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
The thing I like about getting anti's to buy licenses is it helps us get money back from the Fed Government in the form of Pittman Roberts funds as that money is appropriated back to the state based on license sales.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5874684 - 04/12/17 11:21 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin


Like Fur Hangers farm land joke , we're so plucked !
_________________________


Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

.

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#5874699 - 04/12/17 11:31 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
Not if we can beat it at the Convention.

If I remember correctly from the cat battle when I fought against allowing non-Wisconsin residents to vote, thee allowance comes from the original legislation that formed the CC as a legislatively approved advisory body to the NRB. Apparently it says that any "citizen" is allowed to vote, not just Wisconsin residents.

We may as well accept that if is beaten this year it will be back again.
Moosetrot


Edited by Moosetrot (04/12/17 11:33 AM)

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#5874711 - 04/12/17 11:48 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
I wonder who the big pusher is behind this online vote.
Maybe next year there should be a resolution that this vote be for Wisconites. I don't feel I should be able to vote on Minnesota issues.
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#5874718 - 04/12/17 11:58 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
It was a 2016 Citizen Resolution that came out of Milwaukee County, and put forth by the CC Rules and Resolutions Committee. The Resolution number is 41-07-16.

Moosetrot

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#5874723 - 04/12/17 12:05 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin

I think its today's mentality of doing every thing online, they think it's quick and convenient.
Till ya get nipped in a way you never though of .
I feel the same way about registering deer .
_________________________


Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

.

Top
#5874730 - 04/12/17 12:14 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
I can already see the an-ti's lining up, sending a mass email to their members telling them how to vote. Heck, I wouldn't even put it past them to try to hack the vote.
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#5874758 - 04/12/17 01:20 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
handitrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
The thing I like about getting anti's to buy licenses is it helps us get money back from the Fed Government in the form of Pittman Roberts funds as that money is appropriated back to the state based on license sales.


More than likely, if it were to pass? Only requirement would be to have a DNR customer number. And no license.

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#5874808 - 04/12/17 03:04 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Don't the guys in charge, make the rules?
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5874817 - 04/12/17 03:22 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4090
Loc: mn north of blakely
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
Don't the guys in charge, make the rules?


Those who continuously show up generally have a hand in it.

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#5874864 - 04/12/17 04:22 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: handitrapper]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: handitrapper
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
The thing I like about getting anti's to buy licenses is it helps us get money back from the Fed Government in the form of Pittman Roberts funds as that money is appropriated back to the state based on license sales.


More than likely, if it were to pass? Only requirement would be to have a DNR customer number. And no license.

They could probably buy a fishing license and qualify.
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#5874872 - 04/12/17 04:30 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
handitrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: WI
You don't have to buy any kind of a license to get a customer number

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#5874921 - 04/12/17 05:14 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
So what prevents those in charge from requiring an active fishing, trapping, or hunting license and not just a customer id number?

Put all those that want to vote into a virtual "county". They become one of 73 instead of 72. I actually asked about creating one for the WTA at one point. A virtual district. I even offered to head the district. It died as maybe this should, but I think we need to think twice before we dismiss an idea.

Right now all the anti's show up and voice their concerns at the meetings and they can do it without spending a dime. Give them a reason to buy a license and stay home.

Or is that physically impossible to do?
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5874931 - 04/12/17 05:19 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
On a side note, those questions were approved to change the fisher/otter zones plus eliminate the otter population goal. Big win if that gets finalized. I don't think most realize how much that population goal has held back the harvest in this state.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5875001 - 04/12/17 06:55 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I sure hope we don't have to stoop to the level where Anti license purchases are the means we need to provide wildlife management, law enforcement and wildlife research. I would be in favor of paying more out of my own pocket than give up the science and take on the social politics that will come with those funds, but more importantly the voting on issues.
We also need to fully be reminded that much of the hearing is about DNR resolutions and rule changes and not just WCC resolutions or elections. With huge non hunting and fishing input into the process what might the resolutions even look like let alone if they are voted up or down.

Bryce

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#5875004 - 04/12/17 06:59 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
handitrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: WI
Well I can tell you, that I will not be buying a Conservation Patron License just to have the right to vote. Whether @ the meetings or online. Pay to play? Or pay to vote?

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#5875028 - 04/12/17 07:24 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
We already have to now Bryce. Only difference is they don't contribute to the resource now. It is done on our backs. Take it a step father. How much of those federal dollars go into studying the homosexual tendencies of butterflies or some other foolish project while trappers waited years to get anything done on otter? I think people are greatly dismissing the dollars they steal from us.


Edited by WIMarshRAT (04/12/17 07:26 PM)
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!

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#5875034 - 04/12/17 07:29 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
How much of those federal dollars go into studying the homosexual tendencies of butterflies . . .


Ah . . . so that's what's happening to the Monarch butterfly. Hmmmmm.
_________________________
Lifetime member NTA and WTA.

We hoop beaver!!

http://www.riverinefurtraders.com

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#5875497 - 04/13/17 09:17 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Want another example of them having influence and not paying for that influence?

Remember this project?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7cF7cTndkI

They put in a walkway across the entire structure. Added a great deal of cost, but was also designed to help deter the birds. How did that work out? It hurt the project because it didn't have the water flow through it because it needed to be continuous.

Well, those upriver lakes continue to get millions of dollars worth of rock put in them to protect shoreline and create estuaries. Unfortunately, the anti's have blocked the depredation permits that the USFW issues for cormorants. Shut it off so they can't manage them. How many millions are lost because they block something that is actually getting them more cormorants in the state? See, how many guys are going to continue to help fund those projects when they become a wasteland? You can only be that shortsighted when it is not your money your wasting.

That said, this online voting might be a bad idea. It might need to be scraped. But, I am not sure getting the anti's to put a little skin in the game is a bad thing. They surely have enough influence already.

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#5875818 - 04/13/17 04:54 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Hard to envision them contributing anything positive, whether direct or indirect, but I suppose anything is possible.
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#5876121 - 04/13/17 09:47 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WalleyeWacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 387
Loc: S. Wisconsin
This will affend most of you. I don't go because the CC has little power and the NRB is a joke. Sorry but that is the way I feel and I am not alone.

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#5876154 - 04/13/17 10:22 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Walleye, I know a lot of people that agree with you. I always try to get people to go, and I can never get any takers. I will always attend, but to each their own I guess. I encourage everyone to participate.


Edited by AJE (04/13/17 10:56 PM)
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#5876164 - 04/13/17 10:31 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
How much power you want to give them? What is wrong with the natural resource board walleyewacker?
_________________________
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#5876179 - 04/13/17 10:45 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
The NRB should be given authority to oversee the DNR Secretary.
The NRB has had some people on it that are not very environmentally conscious.
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#5876190 - 04/13/17 10:50 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WalleyeWacker]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: WalleyeWacker
I don't go because the CC has little power

Even if they have less power than you would like, I still think sportsmen should participate. Some states grant citizen sportsmen NO power.


Edited by AJE (04/13/17 10:50 PM)
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#5876319 - 04/14/17 06:31 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1828
Loc: WI
There are some success stories where rule changes were initiated by citizens. Those that fail likely fall at the hands of the same citizens.
Why the bitterness?

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#5876327 - 04/14/17 06:40 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Steven 49er]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4090
Loc: mn north of blakely
Originally Posted By: Steven 49er
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
Don't the guys in charge, make the rules?


Those who continuously show up generally have a hand in it.


This needs repeating often.

Don't believe me look at the Nevada thread. Them guys have been showing up for a long time

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#5876478 - 04/14/17 09:34 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Moosetrot, FYI, I heard through the grapevine that the author of the coyote resolution was elected to the Conservation Congress. Shows up one year to introduce resolution and gets elected to Congress the following year. Noticing a pattern here...

49er, not only do you need to show up, but you better do one other thing. You better get others to show up. Trappers can't do that alone unless you have a growing population of trappers which most states don't have. I noticed they were able to get the RMEF and other groups to join the cause in Nevada. Better be fostering those relationships before they are needed.
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#5876490 - 04/14/17 09:46 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
Might be a pattern but I think it's a good one. When a person chooses to become involved, and sees the positive results of their efforts an that one person really can be an agent of change, it strengthens them to go further. I would bet there's a lot of the Congress delegates that have followed the same pattern. Sounds like something the original architects of the Congress intended.

Moosetrot

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#5876925 - 04/14/17 07:55 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Moosetrot]
WalleyeWacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 387
Loc: S. Wisconsin
CC has no power. NRB supports global warming, huh! Glorified politicians! Give some success of NRB and/or CC?

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#5876994 - 04/14/17 08:45 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
Walleye Wacker-You are a pot-stirrer who did this same thing a couple years ago. You hate the CC, the NRB, and anyone who believes in a great system of citizen involvement that is unique to Wisconsin. No matter what anyone says, even citing the many successes of that system, will be rejected and ridiculed by you. It's a waste of good time by those who have worked hard to enact change and positive advancement of public participation in conservation issues in our great State to cite anything you ask for. If it's that bad, move to another State.

Have a good night!

Moosetrot

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#5877092 - 04/14/17 10:24 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Moosetrot]
WalleyeWacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 387
Loc: S. Wisconsin
I don't hate anything. I don't think it is a very good system, because the citizens and the CC rarely get anything they want. Over the years I have seen many laws and policies made that do not reflect conservation and resource management. I said up front that it would offend people that buy into that system. If anything power should be given to the CC and taken away from the board. Than the CC should work with conservation clubs, fishery clubs,ducks unlimited ,wild turkey,bow hunters,deer hunters, shooting clubs, etc. I have never seen an elected CC come to a conservation club and give a report ask for opinions rule changes etc. The WTA it self opens seasons on furbearers when they are no where close to optime fur. They argue about days before freeze up and greed to catch the most fur. I have a degree in Natural Resource Management( not bragging or claiming to know it all, probably forgot more than I know), but too old too fight. I think one has the opportunity to voice an opinion about the process without being called a hater. After all there are many complaints about why cant people give up 3 hours a year and attend. The complaint is on other web sites, too. I see where state agencies do not enforce enviremental laws all the time.I attended many meetings over the years and saw an exercise in futility. No hate, pot stirrer I suppose. If CC is so good, they ought to figure a way that people who use the natural resources get to vote on line and keep off pure activists off. Or not allow it.

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#5877107 - 04/14/17 10:38 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Moosetrot Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Wisconsin
WalleyeWacker-I apologize for calling you a "hater". I should not have used that term.

Your experience with CC delegates and their presence and communication with clubs, etc. is totally different than mine.

Moosetrot


Edited by Moosetrot (04/14/17 10:38 PM)

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#5877112 - 04/14/17 10:42 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
WW, I think you are on to something, but just not sure that is it. I know where one is happening in a couple weeks. You want the location, I would gladly give you the location.

If your county delegates are not working with the local clubs, state organizations, and fishery, time to run or better yet invite them to come to your club. But I am guessing most are because most are members of those organizations. See, the same guys that do all the work for those organizations tend to be the same guys running the Congress IMO.

But you are right in that there is a large number of individuals that have given up on the Congress. What type of things would help restore your faith or more importantly, get you to attend a meeting?


Edited by WIMarshRAT (04/14/17 10:55 PM)
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#5877142 - 04/14/17 11:39 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
See, the same guys that do all the work for those organizations tend to be the same guys running the Congress IMO.

Interesting point. It just so happens in my county that 3 of the citizens on the Congress also happen to serve on our county's CDAC. Another Conservation congress elected rep in our county is actively involved in another local conservation organization. 1 of the guys that serves on our CDAC & CC recently went and spoke to another county non-profit conservation group about buckthorn eradication. 1 of the other guys that serves on both committees put on a presentation about Falconry to yet another local conservation group that I belong to. The final guy on our Conservation congress volunteers time to help the Blind bowhunt. 1 of the guys that recently got off our Congress is also actively involved in our County's Bluebird club. And now that I think about it, another 1 that recently got off (he moved to a neighboring county) served another local nonprofit...the Sportman's/Shaftbusters club. It does seem to be a theme when you think about it, at least in my county.

There are a lot of people disengaged in such public meetings though, a lot. Partly because they think it's an effort in futility, so I hear. I don't know what the answer is to engage more folks in public discourse. I think a lot of people are just anti DNR. Now that the days of Earn a buck are over (hopefully), it seems like citizens in my area are warming to the DNR again. In fact attendance at our annual Conservation Congress meeting has actually grown tremendously over the past ~10 years. Much of that might be due to the fact that our old Wildlife Biologist quit about 5 years ago though, and the new 1 is probably the best in the state.
I go to a lot of meetings and I think there's been a shift in attitude at DNR over the past several years. All of our officials, fishery forestry and law enforcement included, have an impressive way of conducting themselves, and I no longer see the tension that supposedly used to be commonplace at public conservation hearings. So in my opinion some things are looking up, some maybe not. I'm ~ok as long as I don't hear people grumble, yet not show up when they do have a chance to potentially create some positive change.


Edited by AJE (04/14/17 11:45 PM)
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#5877239 - 04/15/17 07:32 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1828
Loc: WI
thanks for the explanation WW.

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#5877451 - 04/15/17 01:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
WalleyeWacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 387
Loc: S. Wisconsin
I went to CC web site, amazed they have one. Don't have time today to read much.But mystified about letter on paper license. Did CC help approve that complete failure? Did they try to stop it or fix it? Just BS to have paper tags that promote violations and not tagging anything. Were there any questions about that? I didn't apply for fisher or otter tags cause I could not trap last fall, were they paper?

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#5877470 - 04/15/17 02:19 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Thanks for engaging WW. Always enjoy different viewpoints.

The tags were the normal durable tags that they send in the mail. You can thank the WTA and to a lesser degree the Congress for ensuring that exists for trappers.

One thing to note is the legislators and governor really have the final say. The Congress acts as a advisory body to the NRB and DNR.
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#5878160 - 04/16/17 11:01 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
WalleyeWacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 387
Loc: S. Wisconsin
That is good, durable tags. I can understand paper license but give us durable deer tags. Turkey season should be all spring and bag should be 2 minimum. I guess u have to tag if u r going to have a max.

You just said it advisory! With little influence!

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#5878186 - 04/16/17 11:37 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
WW, watch the thread on quality of experience if you have interest in turkeys in Wisconsin.

Sure, I said the Conservation Congress is advisory. You have state legislators. I am not going to give the Congress more authority than them.
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#5878204 - 04/16/17 12:13 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
It's hard to know what rules can be made by DNR and/or NRB, or if the legislature needs to approve it. I don't have a specific change or proposal in mind, but I'm just saying it is confusing to me what sort of authority DNR and NRB have, in terms of as who can approve what changes, or if the legislator or governor have to sign off on changes.


Edited by AJE (04/16/17 12:14 PM)
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#5878575 - 04/16/17 09:24 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Some things are spelled out by state statue and other items give authority to the DNR and they use administrative code to spell it out. In order to figure out how to change, you need to understand if you are working with administrative code or state statue.

You will always need legislators to change state statue. For example, the wolf season is set by state statue. When Conservation Congress passed resolution to move wolf season back due to issues, they had to work with legislators to change the state statue. Both the WTA and Congress worked on it with legislators.

Administrative code can be done with just the Congress and NRB and DNR. WI maintains a nice website to help you determine if the item is administrative code or state statue. http://legis.wisconsin.gov/

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#5878716 - 04/17/17 07:28 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
How invasive of each persons privacy do we want to be? With our new system using our customer ID numbers we can check or trace all of the licenses, permits, boats, etc. that a person buys, has our utilizes. There could be parameters created that would allow or disallow voting on those issues for everyone involved be they online or in person if we wanted that as well.
With the current levels of attendance it would not take much increase in total votes to drastically change outcomes or results. In reality however neither does it to change many state and local legislators when voter turnouts are below 30% as well.
What has happened in the past with many resource based issues is that many did not like the DNR policy or administrative rule system and then chose to initiate change through the legislature. The jury is still out if we have chosen a system that is better for managing wildlife our not, but it sure has made the process much more political at the expense of science and research. When the day comes we need to defend our consumptive use policies from a political aspect with our trending demographics and social changes we may not be spending much time at all worrying about zones, starting dates, access etc. we may be doing these things virtually if at all.

Bryce

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#5878733 - 04/17/17 07:48 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: bblwi]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: bblwi
What has happened in the past with many resource based issues is that many did not like the DNR policy or administrative rule system and then chose to initiate change through the legislature. The jury is still out if we have chosen a system that is better for managing wildlife our not, but it sure has made the process much more political at the expense of science and research. When the day comes we need to defend our consumptive use policies from a political aspect with our trending demographics and social changes we may not be spending much time at all worrying about zones, starting dates, access etc. we may be doing these things virtually if at all.

Bryce


Agree 100%
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#5879867 - 04/18/17 12:04 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Looks like Fur Harvest Committee can spend a little time on the muskrat season this year.

http://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/sp...nsCommittee.pdf

It doesn't show the actual resolutions, but it looks like they were all posted on here based on the counties that submitted a resolution. Everyone that contributed to the thread had their hand in it.


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#5879902 - 04/18/17 12:58 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Alex the dog Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 464
Loc: Valders, WI
Pulled out most of the trapping related proposals submitted in the various counties this year. It should not be lost that there were 2 proposals to end trapping and one nearly passed in Marquette County which I would consider fairly rural.

Dave
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#5879917 - 04/18/17 01:16 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
What the heck is going on over in Marquette Co...that's terrible.
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#5879921 - 04/18/17 01:18 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Alex the dog]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Alex the dog
Pulled out most of the trapping related proposals submitted in the various counties this year. It should not be lost that there were 2 proposals to end trapping and one nearly passed in Marquette County which I would consider fairly rural.


Interesting, isn't it? A thread to deliver a resolution (or resolutions) regarding a change in the muskrat zones/seasons to the CC statewide gathered nearly nineteen and a half thousand views and 21 pages of posts on this forum resulting in six resolutions being submitted statewide in six of seventy-two counties. Pathetic.

Meanwhile, the antis submitted resolutions to end trapping in two counties and nearly carried it off.

I've about had a bellyful of the excuses, blame game, finger pointing, "don't get involved" syndrome, you name it . . whatever reason you can dream up why the uninvolved can't drag their dead butts to a 2-hour meeting one night of the year . . .

This thing goes online voting it's only a matter of time. Hopefully by then I'll be too old to care anymore, but, I doubt it.

Don't know what else to add here. Hopefully whatever reason those of you who decided to not get involved is worthy of you eventually losing the trapping freedoms you enjoy today, not to mention what will be left for your kids and grandkids.

Pathetic.



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#5879924 - 04/18/17 01:20 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Amen Muskrat. Well said.
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#5879952 - 04/18/17 01:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
Muskrat, on the bright side of things, just look how few people it actually takes to make huge changes in regs, seasons, laws etc. It is all a matter of who seizes the opportunity the fastest with the most energy and drive. At this point in time it does not appear to be sports persons in general and or even sporting organizations. Many organizations choose not to take tough stances because this may hurt membership and or donations etc. It is no wonder people go rogue and argue for what they want and not what may be in the best interest for the majority or for the resource.

Take wolf seasons for one example our zest to kill wolves brought in legislation that gave us mid October seasons which brought us into huge conflicts with multitudes of other outdoor users in the woods. It also brought to those that were successful how crappy a 46 lbs. YOY female wolf pup with no fur really looks when you want to spend $1,000 on a full body mount. It think if we would have used a bit more patience and common sense and had a better seasonal plan we may still be harvesting wolves today.

Bryce

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#5879966 - 04/18/17 02:15 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
I didn't hear about any huge conflicts in my area Bryce. I trapped in zones 5 & 6.
The conflicts heard in my county was that not enough wolves were taken.
There were other reasons the Fed judge shut the season down of course. An ~11/1 start date is probably wise. If your area saw major conflict in October, I'm not sure the changing start date will fix that.
The ability for a few people to make significant change can be good...or bad Bryce, such as if the small group of enthusiasts are influential an-ti's.
I understand your post though.


Edited by AJE (04/18/17 02:55 PM)
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#5879989 - 04/18/17 02:40 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Bryce, another really good post.

Muskrat, I am only disappointed one didn't get submitted in the north, but outside of that, I would say it was a success. If we would have personally asked, it probably would have been done. After all, we had them lined up last year and then said we didn't need them. They were probably following that example again.

I was surprised to see someone try to tackle badger. Wonder if they got the idea from this forum? I knew that was such a tough battle to get it to pass that I probably should have spent a little more time arming the folks with the science on why it was a good reason to open a season on our university's mascot. I will be interested to see the resolution when it posts.

AJE, those resolutions that get passed go to a committee. The committee can kill them. Just like normal government. Unless the antis get an upper hand on those committees, most never see the light of day which goes back to those that ride, decide.
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#5880039 - 04/18/17 03:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1828
Loc: WI
I' was actually impressed with the results. Any resolution carriers still have rats for from the first month of season? Pm me, I gots a plan:)

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#5880042 - 04/18/17 03:59 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
handitrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: WI
Shows how bad the north really wants their open water rat trapping.

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#5880339 - 04/18/17 08:31 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Kelly Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 1417
Loc: N. Wisconsin
I'm sorry. Got very busy Monday getting ready for our trip, which we are still on. Was not near a computer till after I got home from the CC hearings. It was then that I saw Muskrat's post of a finished resolution. Was never thru the resolution process before so didn't know how to write one up.

Sorry Muskrat!
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#5880458 - 04/18/17 09:56 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I live in Manitowoc County so we had no wolf conflicts here as none were trapped here. We have wolves but few wolves.
The areas that had the most negative interactions were in the far north where wolves are common, land is public and trapping pressure on forest roads was intense along with other users, mostly fall color tourists and grouse hunters with medium sized dogs.
I also believe the spirit of the harvest was changed when permits could be given to other adults and people sitting in offices 200 miles from the catch site could drive up and shoot the wolves in the traps with their tags on them.
The real question to me is do we want to create a good harvest opportunity that has a quality component to it (very subjective I know) or do we just want to slap together a harvest opportunity that reduces the wolf number.
One of the more disappointing aspects of the last wolf season for managers of the wolves was the area or zones that had limited wolf populations but wolves were in numbers that created several problems did not anywhere meet their quotas as persons opted to head for areas that had a lot more wolves but lower quotas as those were zones that were able to handle more wolves with fewer negative impacts and those areas were shut down quickly and in many cases over harvested significantly. That may well have been a deal breaker for the federal judge as we were taking twice as many wolves from areas that were designated as areas where wolves would or could be tolerated at certain levels.

Bryce

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#5880468 - 04/18/17 10:10 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
Some good points Bryce.

I was 1 of those negatively effected by the overharvest in some zones. It closed zone 6 prematurely in season 3. I was in hot pursuit of some wolves when the season got cut short. DNR really had no choice at that point, but yes, I don't think the judge liked some zones going over. I think even DNR was shocked some of the zones filled up in ~3 days.

Some grouse hunters may have been effected but there would have been impacts of some form in Nov too.

Overcompetition from trappers was a challenge on the state land I started on in zone 5. The ones I encountered were respectful at least. It got a little chaotic. The 1 day I pulled up to go check a trap and a guy that had seen my trap had walked past it and set his own. He came out carrying his wolf that morning as I pulled up to park.
The state had its hands full managing that wolf hunt but I feel they did fairly well considering how new it was. Some changes would have been needed had we of had a season 4. It wasn't long after I finished filling out my survey when the judge halted it. Within a month or so of that, the state was ready to start redoing its wolf management plan, so the relisting was a bummer in more ways than 1.

I guess where I'm going with this is if we get another chance, maybe the Conservation Congress can help advise DNR with a new plan.


Edited by AJE (04/18/17 10:26 PM)
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#5880491 - 04/18/17 10:32 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
Several legislators approached the WTA leadership after the last season, wanting to change starting dates and season structure etc. They did not want to listen at all in the beginning when advice was offered to not do it the way it went down. Some times one has to let people get what they wish for and then they can find out how poorly it works out. I think that when the harvest ban is lifted there will be more players at the upper levels of several organizations that will be involved in how the structure of the harvest will evolve. One of the bigger issues that needs to be dealt with early on is what are the population goals for specific areas or zones and how might that impact the ecosystem and the harvest structure. If we change the harvest structure the success rates of those would need to be modeled and or monitored so that goals can be obtained and sustained. Wild prey species can and do adjust to new predator threats and infusions. Domestic species do not as they are limited by what man decides how to manage them.

Bryce

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#5880527 - 04/19/17 12:02 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
If there was ever a time to manage hunters/trappers, it was with the wolf harvest. It pains me to say that, but I really started to believe it was the right thing to do for us.
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#5880546 - 04/19/17 02:39 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1828
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
If there was ever a time to manage hunters/trappers, it was with the wolf harvest. It pains me to say that, but I really started to believe it was the right thing to do for us.


Manage or educate? Id rather be educated, least that way I can make better decisions on my own out there. Trappers are like any other wild critter, hard to manage LOL.

I know whos trying to manage me, I guess the question is who is gonna educate me?

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#5880549 - 04/19/17 03:10 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: nimzy
. . . . I know whos trying to manage me, I guess the question is who is gonna educate me?


You've been saying that since you were in kindergarten Mr. Nimzy! What a handful you must've been!

grin
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#5880638 - 04/19/17 07:02 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1828
Loc: WI
I usually meant well.

Muskrat, I wasn't intending to take a jab at trapper ed.

More the old school mentality of "it is legal" thus its right, my right! Many of our challenges could be resolved with some reflection and common sense. As far as trophies, it seems like the pursuit of those kills brain cells?

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#5880642 - 04/19/17 07:05 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
Muskrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2852
Loc: Southwestern Wisconsin
I didn't perceive that to be a jab at TE. Just having fun with ya.
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#5880726 - 04/19/17 08:24 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4090
Loc: mn north of blakely
Originally Posted By: nimzy
As far as trophies, it seems like the pursuit of those kills brain cells?


Oh yeah!

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#5880821 - 04/19/17 10:44 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
March Rat = Trophy. Now I am starting to make sense of it all. grin

Lots of things align nimzy so you have to overcome real life experienced. Sometimes the education is what is creating the problem because experience can be a great teacher.

Take the first wolf harvest. Zones with low quotas filled fast so the guys learned they needed to set harder at the opening bell the following season in those zones. Again, this was predictable and so where the incidents it created. It is one of the reasons that legislators are coming around to the WTA. They have been talking about those issues long before they ever trapped a wolf in this state.
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#5880831 - 04/19/17 10:55 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
True, in fact I wonder how many traps some of those guys were setting. I mean that was crazy how some zones filled (or overfilled) in a few days.
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#5880889 - 04/19/17 11:50 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I don't know how many most set but as the statewide coordinator for Trapper Ed I got dozens of phone calls from permit winners looking for classes and many commented that they were buying or had bought a couple dozen wolf size traps so lets do some what ifs.
1,000 permits lets say 700 of those decided to trap and not hunt for a wolf Lets use 10 traps per trapper or 70,000 traps
Lets just use public land WI has 15% of its land base as public land, lets say that 75% of that is located north of Hwy 64 (where most wolf trapping did occur).
WI is 54,000 square miles which makes about 7,600 square miles public and about 6,000 square miles is north of 64
Lets assume that 90% of the traps or 63,000 were set on road ways, be they town, county or forest roads. Roads would make up about 3% of the total square miles or that would put the 63,000 traps in about 1890 square miles or about or 33 wolf sets per 640 acres or a trap 19 acres. Being that most would be in a linear narrow pattern that could be a lot of traps and it was.

For sure this is a wild assumption but I don't believe this scenario is far from what happened in many areas from what I heard talking with people that traveled to set wolf sets. With most realizing that zone closure in many areas was certain it became a race and I for one feel left a bad mark on trapping for all species. To me the race to trap a 100 plus wolves because many hate wolves have done us far more harm than good and we will need to be a lot more aware of what we do when we enter into this in the future.

Bryce

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#5880891 - 04/19/17 11:50 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: AJE]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: AJE


I was 1 of those negatively effected by the overharvest in some zones. It closed zone 6 prematurely in season 3.
when the season got cut short.

Some grouse hunters may have been effected but there would have been impacts of some form in Nov too.

Overcompetition from trappers was a challenge on the state land I started on in zone 5.


I don't think overharvest is the right word .
Everyone knew the quota was a guide line , season could end any time when it got close to the quota or if it went past it some .
So saying prematurely is not in play ,as there was no ending date .

Don't see how grouse hunters would of been affected by the Wolf season , if so they would of been just as affected by coyote trappers or any trapping .

As far as Overcompetition, if you think so ,time to move , how much state land can their be in zone 5 , not alot compared to the north .
I though zone 6 was one of the last zones to close also , wasn't it open for almost 2 months ?
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#5880938 - 04/19/17 12:19 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 1559
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
I trapped 'til 12/5 in zone 6. It was a positive experience, that wolf trapping pursuit (except for the 1 day I had 4 MB650s stolen on county land).
Funny you mention 10 traps Bryce. That's what I used. And that special course Irwin put on was great by the way.
I don't necessarily view it in terms of a race to kill an animal people hate. I suppose it was looked at in that light by some. Naturally it became sort of a race. The opportunity to trap a wolf, to many, would be the ultimate high. But not a trophy in a bad sense of the word. I viewed the seasons as a positive, a win-win. I think it was responsible management. Were there things that could be better about it, maybe. I don't think it hurt the image of trappers. I suppose there were some hunters frustrated that trappers used most of the tags I guess.
I'm not complaining or blaming anyone that zone 6 closed without it's quota being met. I had plenty of opportunity. The state made the right decision by doing so. And it's not the trappers fault that certain zone(s) went over their quota. I'm not saying competition in zone 5 was a huge issue. I used the word challenge. I guess I meant to say it was a competetive challenge. Trapping in general is a challenge. It's all part of the pursuit. As I mentioned, everyone I witnessed was friendly and respectful. I can't blame the guy for walking further in than me and getting a wolf.
If we get another season, various groups could maybe provide input, like someone on here said, including perhaps Cons Congress.


Edited by AJE (04/19/17 01:17 PM)
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#5880950 - 04/19/17 12:27 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4090
Loc: mn north of blakely
There is no such thing as "overcompetition". Well unless the intended goal is to hand out participation ribbons and not first place medals.

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#5881028 - 04/19/17 01:16 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: Steven 49er]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
I don't hate wolves but if we want to state that we want to manage the resource(wolves) or whatever than our rhetoric needs to reflect more of that type of language than what is commonly stated in discussion or print by many outdoor users and citizens.
One of the ways to reduce the zone race aspect could be to keep zones with harvest quotas but then establish time frames or periods where harvesters would be in that zone. I know that is restrictive but we need to decide how we want to manage the harvest almost as much as how many we choose to harvest.

The highest density of wolves in WI can be where the tolerance level for wolves is the lowest, which means over time we will have embedded and long term populations of wolves in areas that can sustain a lot more wolves then will be on the landscape. That scenario will almost always lead to a viable, healthy disease free population of low density and a place where harvest opportunities will be available long term.

Bryce

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#5881044 - 04/19/17 01:25 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
I have hunted mountain lions in Montana and it is run almost like our wolf season was , I though it was well run .
If the quota gets filled you can go into another unit that is not .

I don't think time frames would work out .
If there were 2 time frames in each zone , they would have to cut the quota in half for each time frame .
I see what your getting at though .

If they had an early time frame and a late time frame , myself I would be taking the late one , the early one is too early for my taste .
I'll take the season that starts the day after deer gun season . grin
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#5882013 - 04/20/17 10:51 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
I would prefer to leave zones 1, 3, and 6 with existing start. Move the start of 2,4, and 5 back to after deer season. I would leave the tag good for any zone.
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#5882311 - 04/20/17 06:27 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: bblwi]
trapper_85 Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 183
Loc: Wi
Last time I check 700 trappers multiplied by 10 traps each is 7000 traps. It's amazing how a little bit of bad math can change the context of a certain post.

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#5882548 - 04/20/17 09:38 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
I would prefer to leave zones 1, 3, and 6 with existing start. Move the start of 2,4, and 5 back to after deer season. I would leave the tag good for any zone.





What is the reasoning on that ?
Tags were good for any zone and should be .

A October start is too early for any zone as far as I'm concerned.

What zone you in Rat ?
I'm in 1 .
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Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

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#5882576 - 04/20/17 10:11 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: RiversNorth13]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
Yup you are correct my bad but it still puts a lot of traps in small areas that are where almost all the users are, be they trappers, hunters, hikers, etc.
The model can be changed to make the experience better for those fortunate to win a permit. Like it or not based on the discussions with the legislators that pushed this through and after 3 seasons they will more than likely want a change in how the seasons are rolled out. We may want to think hard about what we may want that to look like, because when the ban is lifted the process will move quickly.

Bryce

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#5882596 - 04/20/17 10:45 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
Here's a thought , let's have the start date ,start the day after deer gun season or so then .
It won't intrude in on any or very many deer hunters , bird hunters , leaf watchers , or just about everyone .
Will cut down on the applicats and dreamers and the hides will be prime like everyone wants with any furbearer .
Green trees ,green grass ,warm weather wolf trapping sucks .

Have it like the bobcat, 2 seasons, only a later start .

Dec. 26 to Jan 31 for the first season and Feb. 1 to March 6 for the second season .
It will disperse hunters and trappers over different times then and no more race , just like the bobcat season .
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Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

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The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

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#5882625 - 04/20/17 11:24 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: RiversNorth13]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
The idea of the split times to me makes sense. I would be more in favor of say a December 10th ish to December 31st and then a 2nd from Jan 1 to late January. By mid February canine pelts are many times far past being nice.
Could start a bit earlier in December but there is muzzle loader season and another season in some areas. Wolves may be a bit easier to find with more snow and maybe hungrier as well with colder weather and less options. Might make hunting and calling a bit more successful as well.

Bryce

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#5882638 - 04/20/17 11:50 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
I hear ya .
Dates aren't crazy important but later dates seem better .
As far as muzzle loader s , it is always something or someone that is going to be affected in any time frame .

Ok , so if there were to be two seasons , would the quota get divided into two equal sums for each ?
What if the first season don't fill that quota , does it turn over to the second season .
I can hear it now .

Like you say when the ban does get lifted the process will go fast .
I just hope we all have the ducks in a row and it don't take years to have this work out for the best for all involved .
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Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

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The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

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#5882713 - 04/21/17 06:33 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: RiversNorth13]
nimzy Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1828
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: RiversNorth13
Here's a thought , let's have the start date ,start the day after deer gun season or so then .
It won't intrude in on any or very many deer hunters , bird hunters , leaf watchers , or just about everyone .
Will cut down on the applicats and dreamers and the hides will be prime like everyone wants with any furbearer .
Green trees ,green grass ,warm weather wolf trapping sucks .

Have it like the bobcat, 2 seasons, only a later start .

Dec. 26 to Jan 31 for the first season and Feb. 1 to March 6 for the second season .
It will disperse hunters and trappers over different times then and no more race , just like the bobcat season .


But the ground will be frozen. Lmao.

Makes too much sense.

Cats are late primers. I am no expert on bobcats but have been told they are like rats and full prime in march.

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#5882860 - 04/21/17 08:49 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: nimzy]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
What has happened with bobcats is he opposite of wolves. Most that win cat tags opt for the later season as those who hunt cats late with hounds and snow get 3 to 4 times the cats as those who try to trap early. Just the opposite with wolves. Those who trap get 4 to 5 times as many as those who hunt wolves and thus the rush to set as many traps as soon as you can. It just so happens that later caught cats are better than early and that is not so with wolves.

Just maybe we have been way over thinking this wolf harvest. We could keep zones but we could start when beaver and otter start which is the 1st Saturday in November. We could shut zones down as the quota becomes filled. That may well leave several zones open during the deer gun season and with 500K (many of whom probably hold a wolf permit) of hunters out that would give hunters a really good opportunity to hunt wolves in some of those zones like zone 3 that has a moderate to low density but the quota was not met as that is a zone where there is an attempt to keep the wolf numbers well in check. Many fall outdoor users would be out of the woods by then, wolves would be older and more prime.

Bryce

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#5882875 - 04/21/17 09:12 AM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: RiversNorth13]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: RiversNorth13
Originally Posted By: WIMarshRAT
I would prefer to leave zones 1, 3, and 6 with existing start. Move the start of 2,4, and 5 back to after deer season. I would leave the tag good for any zone.


What is the reasoning on that ?
Tags were good for any zone and should be .

A October start is too early for any zone as far as I'm concerned.

What zone you in Rat ?
I'm in 1 .


Reason for 1 and 3 is due to the depredation issues. http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Wildlifehabitat/wolf/documents/Wolfreport2016.pdf
Six is not good wolf habitat so it will always be a tough zone to meet quota so might as well start early.

Now when I say leave the season, I am going off the new wolf start of November. http://cwbradio.com/news/?fn_mode=fullnews&fn_id=16377 The season start was already approved to move back to first Saturday in November. Zones 2,4, and 5 are your trophy zones which will always have a very short season so might as well move back to a December start. This ensures you get the extra pressure in zones 1,3,and 6 early.

On a completely separate note, where are the elk? Which zone(s)?

By the way, I am down in Winnebago county so zone 6.


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#5883056 - 04/21/17 01:44 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: WIMarshRAT]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3413
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
The link below shows the 6 wolf zones for WI during the 3 harvest seasons. 1 and 5 are the zones with the elk in WI.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wisconsin+wolf+harvest+zones&rlz=1C1CHMO_enUS712US712&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=-3iNKqOVe2OvpM%253A%253B4iaTuXW_YwpmKM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.timberwolfinformation.org%25252Fwisconsin-wolf-expert-weighs-in-on-hunt%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=-3iNKqOVe2OvpM%253A%252C4iaTuXW_YwpmKM%252C_&usg=__b2nZ7CjiPnLS6GrwHZ1yO52OIPs%3D&biw=1600&bih=770&ved=0ahUKEwih1-P2mbbTAhUM3IMKHRBHC74QyjcIQw&ei=mVL6WOGmB4y4jwSQjq3wCw#imgrc=-3iNKqOVe2OvpM:

Bryce

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#5883111 - 04/21/17 02:55 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 1923
Loc: WI
So if you had a different opening for the two zones that had elk, you could compare to see if that later opening had a positive/negative impact on the elk. Another benefit for different starting times for zones.
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#5883179 - 04/21/17 04:48 PM Re: Statewide results of WI Spring Hearings [Re: corky]
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2148
Loc: Gitche Gumee Wisconsin

Zone 1 would fill all tags no matter what.

If they double the tags ,they still would .
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