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#5880335 - 04/18/17 08:29 PM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: trappergbus]
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 273
Loc: Idaho
"Pay homage to all you harvest"

Trappergbus.

I meant to say something in an earlier post, but neglected. Just wanted to mention that I liked your enclosed quote. To me it reflects a respect and an appreciation for those furbearers that we depend on for our livelihood, both financially and mentally. Kudos, man!

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#5880346 - 04/18/17 08:35 PM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: Gulo]
trappergbus Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southern Michigan
Thanks, always felt that was important. Gotta lot of respect for the animals that keep us mentally stable cool
_________________________
Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..

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#5882811 - 04/21/17 08:00 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
Ringbill5196 Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 265
Loc: Iron Range, Minnesota
Nice post. Nobody mention your humor. Enjoyable to read.

How do you use gland lures for wolves?

Tell us more about your deep snow setting.

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#5882835 - 04/21/17 08:25 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
MChewk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4637
Loc: Northern Illinois
Jack, you got me thinking now regarding "orienting or lining up" their bodies to urinate...mark a post.
How did go about figuring this out? And how long did it take you? I always figured it was the animal attempting to get the best angle to first detect the urine/ odor and then configure their body for the easiest/best way to cover it up with its own?
In regards to this....have you ever figured out why the canines put so time and effort " kicking back"
at good marking areas? I wondered if the kick back action possibly stimulated more anal glandular secretions?

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#5882864 - 04/21/17 08:54 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
the Blak Spot Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: central arkansas
For what it is worth, i requested our central arkansas library to purchase Mr. Whitmans book. Looks like it is going through, and i am first on the read list, lol
_________________________
the just shall live by faith

member FTA, NRA, SWARFTA, EAFT
1776 - the year we told a tyrant we weren't to be under a dictator
Caveat ater macula

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#5882902 - 04/21/17 09:36 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: Ringbill5196]
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 273
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: Ringbill5196
Nice post. Nobody mention your humor. Enjoyable to read.

How do you use gland lures for wolves?

Tell us more about your deep snow setting.


Ringbill, many thanks for the post. I'm not an accomplished lure-maker. I'll tell you precisely how I use the glands, and hopefully somebody that really knows the ropes will offer up their suggestions, educating both of us.

On a fresh carcass, I spend probably 20 minutes slicing and dicing. On a wolf, it only takes about 4 carcasses to fill a quart jar. Coyotes, probably 10-12 carcasses per quart. The glands (including the foot pads) are diced very finely, with no chunks bigger than a raisin. I let this "ferment" for about 2 weeks at relatively cool temperature (50-60F), then mix thoroughly with about 1/10th the volume of glycerin (as an antifreeze). I would undoubtedly be better off with some stabilizer, as the real strong smell of canid glands is only good for about 2 years, then it seems to get just plain stinky with rot. Most of my sets (for both wolves and yodel-dogs) using this gland lure are flat sets, but I have had some success even in dirt-holes.

Deep snow... Most of my deep snow chasing of wolves pretty much ended a decade ago in Alaska. Truthfully, when the snows deepened (and I still do this with coyotes down here in Idaho), I switch largely to snares. Just easier and, I think, more efficient. Too, I trapped in Alaska with my SuperCub, so carrying a pile of footholds was problematic, just because of the weight. My deep-snow foothold sets were usually blind sets in established wolf trails or on snowmachine trails (or airplane ski tracks I'd lay down along a river or frozen slough). Periodically, I have had some success with pee-posts alongside of snowmachine or airplane ski tracks as well.

That helpful?

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#5882913 - 04/21/17 09:50 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
trappergbus Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southern Michigan
I got another ? for you , will adult wolves commit to a set better than adult coyotes?
_________________________
Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..

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#5882996 - 04/21/17 12:00 PM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: MChewk]
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 273
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: MChewk
Jack, you got me thinking now regarding "orienting or lining up" their bodies to urinate...mark a post.
How did go about figuring this out? And how long did it take you? I always figured it was the animal attempting to get the best angle to first detect the urine/ odor and then configure their body for the easiest/best way to cover it up with its own?


MChewk...

Actually, the incomparable White17 got me thinking about this several years ago. He's the first one that brought the British work to my attention. Obviously, I then started taking notice. My old chukar dog (female Brit), given the unlimited possibilities, was about 85% "aligned" (Yeah, I actually spent about 6 months watching, with compass in hand). My next Brittany (another female who's a real sweet dog, but not the quickest trap in the box) was about 82%. My wolfing dog (a male Hangin' Tree Cowdog) is currently at about 88%. Of course, I then followed countless wolf and coyote tracks for a couple of years; compass in hand, in the snow, and sure 'nuf, they do the same thing. Why not take that to the next level, and orient my pee-post sets to take advantage of this natural propensity?

I'm in full agreement with you that a canid's first task at the virtual fire hydrant is to check out the existing smell, read the advertisement, then attempt to "cover" it with his/her own. So why not take advantage of their "comfort zone" and orient the post to allow them additional "comfort"?

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#5883027 - 04/21/17 12:56 PM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: Gulo]
Larry Sills Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/29/17
Posts: 268
Loc: Iowa & Neb
Originally Posted By: Gulo
White17.
....I'm a believer in pre-baiting for wolves. However, I don't use lure only, as there needs to be a reward involved (food) to encourage them to come back. I've got a system that I call "Advanced Lupus Procurement Operation" that works wonders.........


So how old are your cells Mr. Whitman? I ask, as for me your "Advanced Lupus Procurement Operation" is strangely similar to our "Pre-Conditoning Latrans before Inserting Foot " and operation we learned in the 60's. However, we used table scraps and quartered piglets as rewards simply because within our omnibuses we could not determine what the Pavlovian's may of used.

Any-who, thanks a bunch Mr. Whitman for answering my age old question about canned doggy food and the free running fido of America. Especially the part about the "greasier the better".

For you younger trappermen and trapperwomen don't forget to use Human experimentation which utilized canines to catch your canines. Why, because science is a wonderful thing!



Larry


PSST I like the name tag.....I am surprised I have not seen any quickhatch or skunk bears used. But I am new to this place.


Edited by wolferman (04/21/17 01:13 PM)
Edit Reason: Too dumb and old
_________________________
Cracker Jack Trapper and Predator Enthusiast

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#5883786 - 04/22/17 08:51 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: the Blak Spot]
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 273
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: the Blak Spot
For what it is worth, i requested our central arkansas library to purchase Mr. Whitmans book. Looks like it is going through, and i am first on the read list, lol


Hey Spot. Many thanks for taking a chance on the newest book. It's basically a self-publishing outfit I go through (Trafford Press), and the up-front costs are outrageous. I get about $0.80 per copy, so will need to sell 2,400 of them to break even. The first book I did with them about 15 years ago, I'm still saving up all the royalties so I can maybe buy a decent used skinning knife someday.

Anyway, hope you like "The Last Hunt". Let me know...

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#5883804 - 04/22/17 09:09 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: Larry Sills]
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 273
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: wolferman

So how old are your cells Mr. Whitman? I ask, as for me your "Advanced Lupus Procurement Operation" is strangely similar to our "Pre-Conditoning Latrans before Inserting Foot " and operation we learned in the 60's. However, we used table scraps and quartered piglets as rewards simply because within our omnibuses we could not determine what the Pavlovian's may of used.

PSST I like the name tag.....I am surprised I have not seen any quickhatch or skunk bears used. But I am new to this place.


Wolfer! I just turned 60 (a few years ago). I like your PCLIF; might use it myself, with your permission; shows major initiative. Too, I'm a firm believer in the works of Comrade Pavlov.

Far as I know, there's still no quickhatch, skunk bear, stink-bear, carcajou, or rossamahah on TMan.

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#5884641 - 04/23/17 08:31 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: trappergbus]
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 273
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: trappergbus
I got another ? for you , will adult wolves commit to a set better than adult coyotes?


Mornin' Gbus.

In my opinion, the simple answer is "No". Adult wolves seem to me to be a bit more "gun shy" than coyotes. I've watched quite a few trail-cam sessions (both video and series of stills) of wolves being captured in footholds. They're generally pretty spooky. They appear to be on high-alert with their feelers out. Have I had them walk on by? You bet! When I told him about a couple videos I had of wolves being caught, a friend of mine over on the other side of the divide (Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks wolf trapper) showed me one of his trail-cam videos. It was a young female black that came to the set 4 different times over about a 20 minute period before stepping in the right place. It was frustrating to watch the first three visits without the trap firing.

Since I've not been a "regular" on TMan for a couple of years, have any of you noticed any discussion on "handedness" of wolves or coyotes? To me, it's another biggie, and footholds should be set accordingly.

Jack

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#5884666 - 04/23/17 08:47 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
LDW Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/12/16
Posts: 556
Loc: N.E. Nebr
Great thread with a lot of info. Mr. Whitman, I am wondering about the "handedness" tendencies of canines. I usually set righthanded, but Andy Weiser in his video sets mainly lefthanded. What have you seen them do?

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#5884751 - 04/23/17 10:44 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: Gulo]
trappergbus Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southern Michigan
Thanks Gulo,

That's what I figured, I see that here with snow cover with some coyotes.
Handedness is a biggy not many talk about.
_________________________
Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..

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#5884798 - 04/23/17 11:42 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: Gulo]
takotna Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Takotna AK
Hey Jack, how's it hanging? I'm sure going to check that north/south and south/north theory out next winter!

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#5884847 - 04/23/17 01:02 PM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: Gulo]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 23371
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: Gulo
Originally Posted By: MChewk
Jack, you got me thinking now regarding "orienting or lining up" their bodies to urinate...mark a post.
How did go about figuring this out? And how long did it take you? I always figured it was the animal attempting to get the best angle to first detect the urine/ odor and then configure their body for the easiest/best way to cover it up with its own?


MChewk...

Actually, the incomparable White17 got me thinking about this several years ago.



Jack is prone to typo's. He meant to write "unconscionable".
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#5884849 - 04/23/17 01:04 PM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 23371
Loc: McGrath, AK
Here's a bit more information that supports Jack's information about canids aligning themselves N/S S/N

https://phys.org/news/2011-01-predation-foxes-aided-earth-magnetic.html
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#5884922 - 04/23/17 02:41 PM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
MChewk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4637
Loc: Northern Illinois
Guys how does wind direction play into all of this....as if animal is facing North( North east) and wind is gusting from opposite direction???

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#5885577 - 04/24/17 06:55 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: MChewk]
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 273
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: MChewk
Guys how does wind direction play into all of this....as if animal is facing North( North east) and wind is gusting from opposite direction???


Another intriguing and thought-provoking question, MChewk.

In my opinion, regardless of where the wind is coming from, I still try to construct my pee-post sets for wolves so they can align their bodies north/south. However, I do take into account the prevailing wind direction. For instance, out here, the prevailing winds, especially noticeable on ridge-tops and other upper elevations, are from the west or southwest. Therefore, I'm going to find a north/south trail or road, and put the post set on the west side of the track I'm suspecting the wolves will take. Putting it on the east side, there's a real good chance that the wind will take the smell of the urine away from the passing wolves, without them ever noticing. Can't have that. Certainly, like everywhere else, we have the daily "microclimate" changes in wind drift, where scent typically drifts downslope in mornings and upslope in afternoon. I often-times take this into account as well (on all my sets, not just pee-posts). That brings up a whole 'nother topic (another teaser) on "when does a wolf usually travel during any 24-hour period; when are the activity peaks?"

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#5885602 - 04/24/17 07:55 AM Re: Jack Whitman [Re: 17hornet]
17hornet Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/26/17
Posts: 24
Loc: Central PA
Mr. Whitman, would you care to elaborate on your handedness of canines comment from above? Thank you sir

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