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#5930717 - 06/18/17 01:10 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: Calvin]
wildflights Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 53
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By: Calvin
Beltrami...The 7 shots tells me that he was really in fear of his life. And it's not TV. Plenty of guys that can take a round or 3 and still kill you before they lose enough blood to keep from doing so.

This! Pour it on until the threat is over!

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#5930742 - 06/18/17 01:58 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: wildflights]
Lugnut Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4730
Loc: SEPA
What threat?
_________________________
Eh...wot?

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#5930749 - 06/18/17 02:07 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
beltrami trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 1307
Loc: northern minnesota
I agree, what threat? If he was being chased or shot at by the guy I would have a different view. Fact is he was seated in a car- told the officer he had a permit to carry and that he was reaching for his license. Did he actually draw the weapon and pose a threat? Did he even get his license or his gun out? From what I have seen/heard the cop judged a little to soon and just assumed he was pulling his gun. Officer could have drawn his weapon and waited to see if he pulled his gun or his license- he had the upper hand. With a gun pointed at his head from a couple feet away he could have identified the gun was being drawn and then made the call to pull the trigger- even wyatt earp wouldnt beat that draw.

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#5930764 - 06/18/17 02:33 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
Buck19 Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/13/12
Posts: 21
Loc: SE MN
I tend to agree with beltrami, the officer was in a tactically superior position gun drawn on a at that point an unarmed seated person??? If your a permit holder has this changed what you will do if pulled over? I know that seeing this incident made me rethink what I do when I'm pulled over. No duty to inform in the state of Minnesota unless asked. I have in the passed voluntarily informed officers but think now it's a mistake. Maybe just hand them my permit with my other info.

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#5930776 - 06/18/17 02:58 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 7726
Loc: MN
I do not posses a carry permit for the simple fact I will never ask for permission for something explicitly laid out in our Constitution. Therefore I am ignorant in regards to if permit information is available to law enforcement by drivers license information or by vehicle plate registration. If is available, why is it? Does the threat of someone who legally (though self depreciatingly) asked for permission pose a certain threat? Wouldn't a better policy be to treat every citizen as though they have a concealed weapon on them? Also, to those that would issue a citation to a citizen who doesn't posses the proper permission papers; how does enforcing a law that is in direct opposition to what is written in the supreme document limiting government work?

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#5930798 - 06/18/17 03:59 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 3612
Loc: South metro, MN
Just a note...a carry permit is VOID if your are under the influence of drugs or alcohol. So in essence he had no permit.

I do believe that had he been sober he would have acted differently...and been alive today. This is why this clause is in the permit stipulations. Sometimes people brain under the influence just don't do what needs to be done in a certain situation.

Flynn. None of what you say ever holds up in court...so good luck with that. I'm sure you are very familiar with the Sovern Nation...and how they (or you) end up in the clink with the same verbage. The rest of us have to live in todays world...Like it or not. And most times I don't (for the record).


Edited by Calvin (06/18/17 04:00 PM)
_________________________
The insane are running the asylum.

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#5930802 - 06/18/17 04:05 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: beltrami trapper]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 3612
Loc: South metro, MN
Originally Posted By: beltrami trapper
Originally Posted By: Calvin
Beltrami...ask your brother about your theory of shooting once and grabbing for his gun. He will disagree with you. I guarantee it.

I have and he is the one who called the stop an all out rookie mess. He had to deal with armed people hundreds if not more times in his career, he had been shot at but not hit before- he has returned fire and injured criminals, he was run over by a drunk driver, you name it he pretty much seen it and lived through it. He agrees that 7 rounds fired in that particular instance is nothing more than being scared,stupid, or both. As well as a few of his old co-workers that just stayed at my cabin last weekend.


He may have called it a rookie mess but to say to shoot a guy once then wrestle over his gun is a complete different thing. Nobody would ever condone those tactics. That was my original point...not the rookie mess part. My bad on the wording.
_________________________
The insane are running the asylum.

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#5930807 - 06/18/17 04:12 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
KeithC Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 1514
Loc: Champaign County, Ohio.
None of the videos I have seen have shown the actual shooting. All of the videos just show the girlfriend talking with Philandro dieing in the background. Many posters are taking what she says as true without any evidence, whatsoever.

Keith

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#5930827 - 06/18/17 04:59 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 7726
Loc: MN
I am unsure of how my post had anything to do with Sovern Nation-whatever that is. Also, I am unsure of what verbage I used that would land me in jail. Furthermore, what I post here isn't meant to be upheld in court. If I had wanted lawerly advice I would have asked a lawerly question. I asked a law enforcement question concerning the enforcement of gun permits. If one believes in the Constitution (which is a document limiting government, not bestowing upon anyone any rights) and it says 'shall not be infringed'- how does one enforce any law that does infringe without entering a dilemma? Im not talking about a legal dilemma, I am talking of a moral, personal dilemma.

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#5930886 - 06/18/17 06:33 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
jeff karsten Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/27/15
Posts: 160
Loc: rogers city mi.
thankfully I haven't been pulled over much but in the few instances I was told to keep both hands on the steering wheel until further notice then asked where my liscense and reg was and told to retrieve it every post has good pros and cons about the incident
_________________________
olden tyred

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#5930896 - 06/18/17 06:58 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15063
Loc: Nebraska
It could be that the prosecutor tried to overcharge the case, as happens frequently. The jury may have convicted him of a manslaughter charge if he'd been charged with it.
_________________________
I haven't seen Democrats this mad at Republicans since we ended slavery.

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#5930900 - 06/18/17 07:05 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: FlyinFinn]
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 342
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: FlyinFinn
I do not posses a carry permit for the simple fact I will never ask for permission for something explicitly laid out in our Constitution. Therefore I am ignorant in regards to if permit information is available to law enforcement by drivers license information or by vehicle plate registration. If is available, why is it? Does the threat of someone who legally (though self depreciatingly) asked for permission pose a certain threat? Wouldn't a better policy be to treat every citizen as though they have a concealed weapon on them? Also, to those that would issue a citation to a citizen who doesn't posses the proper permission papers; how does enforcing a law that is in direct opposition to what is written in the supreme document limiting government work?


I don't have a concealed permit but have a Firearms Purchase Certification. It allows you to buy a firearm over the counter without having to wait for a background check to be done cause that's what is checked when you apply for the permit. You have to renew it every 3 years.

I know here in Nebraska law enforcement have permit information available to them when they pull up driver license information. I learned this when I got pulled over a couple of years ago. I got a warning for doing about 5mph over the speed limit. His records showed that I had that FPC and he asked me if I had any firearms in the vehicle. Not sure if this holds true for every state though.

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#5930930 - 06/18/17 07:45 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
bass10 Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/17/09
Posts: 313
Loc: Akron, Ohio
Our criminal justice system is a joke, for as smart as you have to be to be a part of it, it actually lacks major common sense in many instances. Why some evidence can be used and some with held is mind boggling, if it's the truth it should be open. The OJ case is all the info on that system I'll ever need to be aware of. Yet there are complete idiotic fools that truly think he was and is innocent.

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#5930938 - 06/18/17 07:50 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
T-Rex Offline


Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 4397
Loc: MN >>>
This is an extremely sad case. Maybe something like Dumb and Dumber. One guy can't follow instructions, and the other freaks out. Lots of lives affected. Too bad!!

Why? What could have been done differently? Too late now. SAD.

My take is that if Castile had only kept his paws on the steering wheel, there would never have been a confrontation.

If Yanez had only fired a shot or two, justification would have been easier.

Dumb and Dumber. Too late now.
_________________________
Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand, see pixie dust, also.

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#5930957 - 06/18/17 08:10 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15063
Loc: Nebraska
Just out of curiosity, what instructions did Castile fail to comply with?

The paramedics who treated him said they found his gun in his pocket, so he obviously didn't pull it out.
_________________________
I haven't seen Democrats this mad at Republicans since we ended slavery.

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#5930973 - 06/18/17 08:23 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4099
Loc: mn north of blakely
Buck, I'm going from memory here, I believe the charge was second degree manslaughter.

8m pretty sure we had a lengthy discussion here right after it happened


Edited by Steven 49er (06/18/17 08:24 PM)

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#5930976 - 06/18/17 08:24 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: BuckNE]
T-Rex Offline


Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 4397
Loc: MN >>>
Originally Posted By: BuckNE
Just out of curiosity, what instructions did Castile fail to comply with?


"Don't Reach"

I've been there. Cop always tells you to keep your hands in sight. One insisted on the dash. Most are happy with the steering wheel.

Even if he was going for his seat belt, that is the same vicinity of a typical carry spot. I believe it looked like a threat.
_________________________
Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand, see pixie dust, also.

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#5930977 - 06/18/17 08:27 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: Steven 49er]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15063
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Steven 49er
Buck, I'm going from memory here, I believe the charge was second degree manslaughter.


Yeah, I just looked it up. Thanks.

I'm still curious why people think Castile wasn't following instructions.

He told the officer he had a permit and a gun. When reaching for his wallet he was shot. I read that the paramedics found his gun still in his pocket.

Sounds to me like the cop just freaked out when he found out the guy had a gun. I don't think there was any malice. Just another cop too jumpy to be a cop.
_________________________
I haven't seen Democrats this mad at Republicans since we ended slavery.

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#5930978 - 06/18/17 08:28 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15063
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: T-Rex
Originally Posted By: BuckNE
Just out of curiosity, what instructions did Castile fail to comply with?


"Don't Reach"

I've been there. Cop always tells you to keep your hands in sight. One insisted on the dash. Most are happy with the steering wheel.


The cop said don't reach for his gun. Apparently he didn't. He reached for his wallet.
_________________________
I haven't seen Democrats this mad at Republicans since we ended slavery.

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#5930986 - 06/18/17 08:32 PM Re: Philandro Castile [Re: T-Rex]
T-Rex Offline


Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 4397
Loc: MN >>>
I don't know about Castile, but I carry my wallet on the left. He was reaching for the right.

A man with his experience of traffic stops should have already had that wallet in hand when the cop got to the window.
_________________________
Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand, see pixie dust, also.

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