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#5951860 - 07/16/17 01:47 PM REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car.
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Wow .How stupid is joe public.
Never mind he did elect Obummer


In addition to the analysis below, we are subsidizing each electric vehicle sold through our tax dollars. Many electric utilities are attempting to including the cost of building charging stations into their rate structure so we pay for building the stations. We should ask every owner of an electric/hybrid vehicle “how many days this year do I get to drive your car since I paid for part of it?”


THIS IS VERY, VERY INTERESTING.
Still want an electric vehicle ???
If you want to argue with a “green” person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the below:
Note: However, if you ARE the green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...

For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.

$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000... So the American Government wants proud and loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country...

Still wonder why Trump won?

Where do I sign?

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#5951946 - 07/16/17 03:23 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Kyt Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 895
Loc: Kentucky
Your rate per KWH must be wrong. Ky. has some of the cheapest electricity in the country I hear. My rate per kilowatt hour is 10 cents. 10 hours times 10 cents is 1 dollar. Now how is the cost comparison?
I don't know much about the dynamics of charging one of those batteries, but I'm wondering if it even takes that much power to bring them to full charge anyway. Usually the charge tapers off as it gets closer to full charge.
An electric car is not for every application. But if I could drive to work and back 40 miles round trip and not pay ANYTHING for gas-- I would be one of those members of the subsidized stupid public.

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#5951949 - 07/16/17 03:27 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Computer Hater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 900
Loc: Ohio
I think that what you are paying for a kwh of electric is too high. Unless I'm missing something a kwh costs around .08 to .15 around here.
_________________________
Randy
Member NTA, FTA

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#5951964 - 07/16/17 03:45 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 3745
Loc: South metro, MN
And then what do you do with that car when it's junk? Toss the battery in a hazardous waste facility?

Hows that for green?

My new Focus cost $16k out the door (last years model). And runs all summer long at 40mpg. Abit less in the winter. And at a whopping $2.16 per gallon these days. I don't get the electro buggy hype.


Edited by Calvin (07/16/17 03:48 PM)
_________________________
The insane are running the asylum.

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#5951987 - 07/16/17 04:07 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
addictedangler Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 2379
Loc: cumberland co, Pa
So what will you think of your Focus when gas goes to $5.00 a gallon? Or perhaps a war breaks out and it goes to $30.00 a gallon. Then sometime in the future run out of gas? I have no need for a electric car however I will not belittle someone and give false facts towards them. No I am not green but not stupid either! They currently recycle most batteries.

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#5951994 - 07/16/17 04:18 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Bruce T Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 22634
Loc: Northern Maine
I doubt very much those electric cars will go out in the woods either.No thanks.
_________________________
2017 goals:
100 muskrats
20 mink
5 otter
1 bobcat

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#5951998 - 07/16/17 04:26 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
addictedangler Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 2379
Loc: cumberland co, Pa
I just checked the price of a 2017 Volt online.Perhaps you were looking at the Trump dealership price at $47,00.00. The listed price to a buyer would be $26,595.00. Also the total miles driven on gas and electric was 420 as per tested.You posted the bogus report Fox news put out. You can go online to see what the facts are and his ( Erics) report beside it. After reading your post I can completely understand why Trump won the election!


Edited by addictedangler (07/16/17 04:30 PM)

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#5952008 - 07/16/17 04:53 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jabNE Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/25/13
Posts: 2767
Loc: Hickman, Nebraska
But then again the first PCs were pieces of crap compared to what we have today.
So...what if the tech behind electric cars gets really awesome someday? Maybe that would be a really cool thing.
Jim


Edited by jabNE (07/16/17 04:53 PM)
_________________________
Smile! Life is good!

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#5952047 - 07/16/17 06:05 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Drifter Offline



Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 7415
Loc: Oakland, MS
They may well pan out in the future but I see a lot not being taken into account. Battery life and replacement costs is one area. $5 K for a battery PLUS has to be put in by a dealership. I haven't read up enough to know about the longevity of them or the actual maintenance is on them. I will say at present I will be passing on one.
_________________________
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
~ ~Abraham Lincoln








Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .

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#5952049 - 07/16/17 06:10 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5983
Loc: Wheaton Ks
My wife bought a new Hundae hybred. Neat technology, dang thing had a spot reserved for it at the dealership. After fighting one problem after another, we said enough. Went back the a turbo chevy, and while it ain't got quite all the bells and whistles, it has only been in the shop to get the oil changed and a sun roof problem. So much for the electric cars in this houshold, it'll be a long time till I try another!
_________________________

Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com

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#5952058 - 07/16/17 06:23 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Kyt]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: Kyt
Your rate per KWH must be wrong. Ky. has some of the cheapest electricity in the country I hear. My rate per kilowatt hour is 10 cents. 10 hours times 10 cents is 1 dollar. Now how is the cost comparison?
I don't know much about the dynamics of charging one of those batteries, but I'm wondering if it even takes that much power to bring them to full charge anyway. Usually the charge tapers off as it gets closer to full charge.
An electric car is not for every application. But if I could drive to work and back 40 miles round trip and not pay ANYTHING for gas-- I would be one of those members of the subsidized stupid public.



OK if you want to pick apart the numbers DROP the price of gas to 1.94 a gal which is what it is now. SO the gas powered car is even cheaper.
Plus if you look it up it takes more KW usage then what is stored in charging a batt.

PLUS look up how long the electric car has to be driven to make LESS impact on the environment. The battery material is deadly and NOTHING grows around the areas that it is produced... ACCORDING to the experts that hybrid has to last 75 years to have less impact, (producing and replacing all the batteries) than the same vehicle in gas only.

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#5952062 - 07/16/17 06:29 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: addictedangler]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: addictedangler
So what will you think of your Focus when gas goes to $5.00 a gallon? Or perhaps a war breaks out and it goes to $30.00 a gallon. Then sometime in the future run out of gas? I have no need for a electric car however I will not belittle someone and give false facts towards them. No I am not green but not stupid either! They currently recycle most batteries.


HA HA recycle that battery? Really. As for running out of gas I bet you don't live to see it. Plus if gas goes to 30 a gallon what do you think electric will cost.

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#5952067 - 07/16/17 06:32 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jv220 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 181
Loc: sw iowa
According to the EIA ... The US energy information administration only 15% of the electricity in the U S comes from a renewable source. 20% from nuclear . The rest and majority is coming from fossil fuels. Not really sure how being able to possibly drive 50 miles a day without gas is really going to change anything . ... If you have to come home and more than likely plug it in to electricity generated by fossil fuel to charge it.... Also need to take into account how much and what kind of energy was expended to make the battery... And also how much energy it will take to refurbish the battery once it is spent......another thing if there were millions of these cars driven daily to work.....what's going to happen when every comes home from work and plugs them in...looks like to me this technology is a long ways from actually making a difference in any way.... Unless it warms your little liberal heart....
_________________________
My reading of history convinces me that most
bad government results from too much government.
Thomas
Jefferson

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#5952071 - 07/16/17 06:37 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: addictedangler]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: addictedangler
I just checked the price of a 2017 Volt online.Perhaps you were looking at the Trump dealership price at $47,00.00. The listed price to a buyer would be $26,595.00. Also the total miles driven on gas and electric was 420 as per tested.You posted the bogus report Fox news put out. You can go online to see what the facts are and his ( Erics) report beside it. After reading your post I can completely understand why Trump won the election!


I think YOU need to do some research !! Just went to Chevy website STARTING price on the volt is 34,094 BUCKS !!!! Add power windows and updated interior and you are PUSHING 40,000. That is not the LTZ version.
OK WAIT FOR IT !!!!! Look under the price tag it says (after federal rebate) there is a different price. WHOA !!! Who pays for that Federal subsidy !!!!!!!!

Not so much fake news now ...........

1.95 gal gas looking better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car

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#5952073 - 07/16/17 06:38 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Oh yea forgot taxes and license and destination charges = over 44,000
Also I believe they put a bigger gas tank on them than when they first came out...

Not to mention how many caught fire and burnt the owners house down. More and more you hear about batteries exploding while charging in ALL devices.

Exactly what is the cost if the hybrid burns down the house LOL......................



Edited by jbyrd63 (07/16/17 06:49 PM)

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#5952081 - 07/16/17 06:51 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
addictedangler Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 2379
Loc: cumberland co, Pa
Sorry but you did not check with the rebate you receive. That is list price. You need more info then your alternative news JB so yes that was a bogus report. Perhaps you need to check things out before posting from Unfair and Unbalanced. They lied about 75% of what was stated. I just checked the GM specks on the batteries. It appears they is no charge for any battery problem for 100,000 miles and I think 8 years. Sounds like a good deal for a warranty! Also replacement GM batteries start at $3,400.00. This price has been dropping as much as 35 percent a year for the last few years. Power windows and Bla, Bla, Bla. I guess you need some one to help drive it also? Give us a break!

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#5952086 - 07/16/17 07:00 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Just showing YOU what the list price is . Find one that is a rebuilt wrecked and you may get it for 15,000. But I should have known you would say CHEVY's List price would be false news if it didn't say what you wanted to hear....



LOL.......



Edited by jbyrd63 (07/16/17 07:01 PM)

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#5952087 - 07/16/17 07:01 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
danny clifton Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 9162
Loc: williamsburg ks
They may pan out in the future. Nothing new is ever what it will be ten years down the road. Have to build and drive a few before improvements will be made.

The problem I have is government subsidies. There won't be a need for subsidies when electric cars become feasible. The development would happen without subsidies.
_________________________

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#5952090 - 07/16/17 07:03 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: addictedangler]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: addictedangler
Sorry but you did not check with the rebate you receive. That is list price. You need more info then your alternative news JB so yes that was a bogus report. Perhaps you need to check things out before posting from Unfair and Unbalanced. They lied about 75% of what was stated. I just checked the GM specks on the batteries. It appears they is no charge for any battery problem for 100,000 miles and I think 8 years. Sounds like a good deal for a warranty! Also replacement GM batteries start at $3,400.00. This price has been dropping as much as 35 percent a year for the last few years. Power windows and Bla, Bla, Bla. I guess you need some one to help drive it also? Give us a break!


I did check with the rebate . That was one of my points. THE REBATE is a FEDERAL subsidy. That is one aspect of the original story.....

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#5952091 - 07/16/17 07:04 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
goatman Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 119
Loc: IL
Not sure what Chevy is saying that their Volt battery stores 16 kwh. Kwh(kilowatt hour) is a form of metering AC electricity. 1 kwh= 1000 watts per hour. An average home may use 1000 to 2000 kwh per month. Besides the cost per kwh taxes,facility charge,and time of day charges could be added.

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#5952092 - 07/16/17 07:04 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: danny clifton]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
They may pan out in the future. Nothing new is ever what it will be ten years down the road. Have to build and drive a few before improvements will be made.

The problem I have is government subsidies. There won't be a need for subsidies when electric cars become feasible. The development would happen without subsidies.


X2 Demo's pushed them thru congress right along with the 8 plus million solar company that filed bankruptcy before it opened.......

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#5952109 - 07/16/17 07:20 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BillyTraps Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/16
Posts: 279
Loc: eastern washington

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#5952113 - 07/16/17 07:22 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
addictedangler Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 2379
Loc: cumberland co, Pa
Here is the problem. Someone tells you you are stupid for buying brand X car. Then make a political statement. I guess we could do the same with Trappers and there equipment.
Example:
Billy buys a dozen sterling traps for X dollars. How stupid could he be? He could have got the Dukes for 1/4 the cost. Catching $10.00 animals in a $30.00 trap. Can you believe those dumb trappers buy pee. How stupid are they? Billy spent $500.00 on gas and equipment to catch $300.00 in fur. Stupid !I can go on but I think I made my point.
Some people just need to grow up and try to be respect full. Buy the way I am one of those dumb trappers so perhaps you can jump on me for that also.

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#5952132 - 07/16/17 07:36 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scout1 Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 1152
Loc: Western N. Carolina
Just buy a good quality 35+ mpg 4 cylinder car. $5.00 a gallon gas, won't like it but will pay it. $30.00 a gallon, I'll stay at home and fight the masses and hoards of looters!
_________________________
-------------------------------------
America First!!

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#5952144 - 07/16/17 07:47 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Unfortunately, nobody wants to be truthful anymore and both sides lie to improve their stance. We'll likely end up in another civil war. Or, like some former politicians...folks who disagree with them turn up dead.
BOSSELMAN truck stops in Nebraska are talking about charging stations for electrics and quoted 45 minutes to charge a battery so they need to do a bit more research as well.
_________________________
I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???

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#5952146 - 07/16/17 07:49 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Someone showed electric trucks, which may pull a trailer around a factory as a shag truck, but will never make it on the road.
_________________________
I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???

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#5952176 - 07/16/17 08:16 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BillyTraps Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/16
Posts: 279
Loc: eastern washington
$30 gas....a dream come true, no more traffic !

<smile>

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#5952182 - 07/16/17 08:25 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Rat Masterson Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/14/12
Posts: 663
Loc: SE Minn
If gas goes to $30 coon would be 150.00 each. lol

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#5952345 - 07/17/17 12:58 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
cmcf Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/15
Posts: 1094
Loc: Wyoming
One thing that NEVER gets mentioned. A Brit that has a weekend radio show about cars called car gab and owns two or three repair facilities. Says the electric cars are very heavy and require specific type of tires. And they wear them out much quicker. Very spendy.

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#5952348 - 07/17/17 01:31 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 3745
Loc: South metro, MN
Good one Addicted...

Ya...what if gas goes to $30 a gallon? I will love the 40mpg focus even more then. I'm on my 3rd one. And what if Martians come down and stick us all in cages and feed us gravel? Paranoid much?

So I can buy 2 new gas powered Focuses for less than my buddy's wife made him buy a Chevy Volt for and have several grand leftover...and that's a bad thing?

$3,600 for a replacement battery is suppose to be a good deal? who knew?

"Recycle the batteries"...Love it. I suppose they just turn all those worn out batteries into puppies smile

Honestly, I hope they get this electro thing figured out one day. We're not there yet tho...not even close. People are getting rich selling this stuff to the Greenies, however.
_________________________
The insane are running the asylum.

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#5952349 - 07/17/17 03:10 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
elkaholic Online   shocked
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1846
Loc: PA
2017 Chevy Volt
News & World Report
MSRP: From $33,220
Range: 53 mi battery-only, 420 mi total
Battery charge time: 13h at 110V, 4.5h at 220V
Battery: 18.4 kWh 300 V lithium-ion
Horsepower: 149 hp
_________________________
Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications

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#5952364 - 07/17/17 05:55 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
addictedangler Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 2379
Loc: cumberland co, Pa
2017 Chevy bolt: $30,248.
Also take the rebate of the price
First line when you go to Chevy volt on your computer.

It is about the lies being posted. Read the first post.I guess Americans are not entitled to buy whatever they want. Hope you enjoy your Focus. However,what is the warranty on your Focus batteries? Yes good deal if you are familiar with warranty and the mechanics of them!
Why try to just twist the facts? This post is only a political post. And the information was not even close to correct. Information came from a Fox News reporter.

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#5952403 - 07/17/17 06:57 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
lebowski Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/03/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: MI
know someone who has a volt. His electric bill went up the same he saved on gas. He is not saving a dime.

Thing is his fuel costs would be the same in a $16,000 car not the $35,000 volt he is driving.


Edited by lebowski (07/17/17 07:00 AM)
_________________________
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.”

-- Fred Bear

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#5952404 - 07/17/17 06:58 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Calvin]
lebowski Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/03/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: MI
well said. We are not there yet. I hope technology gets to that point but electric technology is not cost effective yet.

Originally Posted By: Calvin
.......
Ya...what if gas goes to $30 a gallon? I will love the 40mpg focus even more then. I'm on my 3rd one. And what if Martians come down and stick us all in cages and feed us gravel? Paranoid much?

So I can buy 2 new gas powered Focuses for less than my buddy's wife made him buy a Chevy Volt for and have several grand leftover...and that's a bad thing?

$3,600 for a replacement battery is suppose to be a good deal? who knew?

"Recycle the batteries"...Love it. I suppose they just turn all those worn out batteries into puppies smile

Honestly, I hope they get this electro thing figured out one day. We're not there yet tho...not even close. People are getting rich selling this stuff to the Greenies, however.



Edited by lebowski (07/17/17 06:59 AM)
_________________________
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.”

-- Fred Bear

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#5952467 - 07/17/17 08:45 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
madcotrappwr Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 13123
Loc: central ohio
Hope they get it done. I'm not falling for it yet. I'm not rich.

It's not a good deal.
_________________________
Will my toes ever cool down?

I'm Gonna die with my boots on.

Tim Henry.






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#5952509 - 07/17/17 10:01 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: danny clifton]
ScottW Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 663
Loc: Barnum & Finland, MN
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
They may pan out in the future. Nothing new is ever what it will be ten years down the road. Have to build and drive a few before improvements will be made.

The problem I have is government subsidies. There won't be a need for subsidies when electric cars become feasible. The development would happen without subsidies.


The development would likely happen without subsudies, but not nearly as quickly in my opinion. Money could be spent on much worse things, so I try to look at it glass half full. Like many have said, electric vehicles (whether partial or full electric) are not yet the total cats meow......but someday MAY be. I don't understand why some folks are so dismissive of the idea that moving away from fossil fuels could possibly be a reality and have benefits to almost all involved. If I could buy a truck that ran on electric, went twice as far, and cost half as much to operate I would do it in a heartbeat and know most other sane people would also. Will that day come? I have no idea, but I hope so.

Gary Benson, you are exactly right. With just about whatever topic you want to discuss/argue, you can read whatever study you want from whatever source you want to get the information you WANT. Bits and pieces of all of it are true, some more than others. It's the same thing with politics, nobody is willing to admit when they are/have been wrong.

I don't think we have a large enough sample size to even come close to determine the realities of electric vehicle feasability on a large scale. Technology is developing and changing so rapidly as far as batteries and other components go that it will be hard to get any kind of definitive hardcore sample. Even recycling or battery materials can develop.

I figure it's kinda like traps and trapping methods. Things change, develop, go forward, go backward, fail, succeed, and such. I think the world is better having the MB750 and CDR7.5 for beaver rather than many previously used alternatives, why can't cars change but improve?

Happy trapping! ScottW

ps, I hate change to!

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#5952520 - 07/17/17 10:13 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: addictedangler]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: addictedangler
2017 Chevy bolt: $30,248.
Also take the rebate of the price
First line when you go to Chevy volt on your computer.

It is about the lies being posted. Read the first post.I guess Americans are not entitled to buy whatever they want. Hope you enjoy your Focus. However,what is the warranty on your Focus batteries? Yes good deal if you are familiar with warranty and the mechanics of them!
Why try to just twist the facts? This post is only a political post. And the information was not even close to correct. Information came from a Fox News reporter.


And exactly what LIES are you pointing out. THE "REBATES" is what the big complaint was about. IT IS A FEDERAL SUBSIDY. Paid by ALL Americans. Laws that the Obummer adm passed thru when they had control.

Plus as far as the price quoted I will put it to rest today. I live 2 miles from one of the biggest chevy dealers in KY. I'm going to get a price quote and will update the price .

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#5952543 - 07/17/17 10:37 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Electric cars may be the answer in cities where folks have a short commute...and the populated areas are where the pollution is the worst. However you will never see an electric semi on the interstate or a farmer working ground with an electric tractor.
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#5952572 - 07/17/17 11:11 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
I have one question for you addict. How many of theses great cars do you think they would sale if there was NO Federal subsidy. If they are such a savings the smart Americans would buy them just on savings alone....

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#5952593 - 07/17/17 11:48 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Ok as far as batteries go, just a little example of how they work. They do not have 100% efficiency. That means, in order to charge a say 10 kw/h capacity barrette, you will have to use around 14 kw/h to fill the thing. The rest is lost through internal resistance ( heat ) you may have noticed that they get warm when getting charged and when getting discharged at a high rate. As most electrickery here is produced by means of fossil fuels, you are just offsetting the pollution. instead of blowing it out of the exhaust of your car, you are blowing it out of a power station smoke stack. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
So if you have a short commute to work and want to "save the planet" , get a bicycle.
If you want to achieve something similar using an electric vehicle, plaster your roof in solar panels and stick a wind generator in your garden. But the first duck that gets whacked by those blades will have the tree huggers up in arms or some other tin foil hat group will want to burn you at a stake.


Edited by Scuba1 (07/17/17 11:57 AM)
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#5952604 - 07/17/17 12:03 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
ScottW Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 663
Loc: Barnum & Finland, MN
Scuba, I hope nobody is asking for a free lunch, just a cheaper less impactful more efficient lunch. Is it possible that the cost and impact of powering a car via coal produced power is less than that of a small individual gas car engine? If so, I think most would be happy as heck and consider that better yet want to strive for more. Happy trapping! ScottW

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#5952649 - 07/17/17 12:50 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
ScottW My experience is that a lot of folks think that electricity just comes out of the outlets in their hose. Most have little regard or thought about how the stuff gets there. Yes it is true, that modern power plants that work with super critical burners produce less pollution per KW/h produced then a modern small car engine. However, one has to take into account the loss ( resistance) of the power lines and the inefficiency of the charging cycle of even the most modern batteries. Plus the lifespan of those batteries and the impact they have on the environment . i.e. their production and " recycling". If you take all those figures into account, A modern small diesel engine in a small car looks pretty good as far as saving a buck and the planet goes. There are a lot more things to consider. Like the weight of the car powered by either batteries or a small engine and the energy it takes to accelerate the extra weight on those batteries and a host of other things that would take a loooong post on here to explain.
The bottom line is, that right now with current technology, The small diesel powered car wins hand down without even having to try to hard. Will that change in the future??? Probably. I doubt that I will see that day though.
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#5952653 - 07/17/17 01:01 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 3745
Loc: South metro, MN
So electricity doesn't come from butterfly kisses and non GMO flowers, Scuba? ..UGH...Blasphemy.

Anyone wanna buy a unicorn?
_________________________
The insane are running the asylum.

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#5952665 - 07/17/17 01:25 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
I am just a grumpy old fart I guess. Physics is just one of the things that can't be bent by politics. Not because folks don't try. ...............
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#5952705 - 07/17/17 02:21 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
addictedangler Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 2379
Loc: cumberland co, Pa
Just for JBY: Please try to follow along as I am not going to post this a third time. This is just for you so you can understand. Hopefully?
Fox News Post: electric run 25 miles
Independent test: electric run 53 miles
FN: total distance 270
IND: 380 miles
Original poster: cost of 74 cents per mile for electric.
Totally incorrect math and was no where near that cost.
FN: cost $46,000.00
GM: Cost msrp $33,220.00

Please read these and try to understand. There are more but I am tired of correcting incorrect posters and having to show you twice!

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#5952709 - 07/17/17 02:25 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
addictedangler Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 2379
Loc: cumberland co, Pa
I do not think anyone tried to post that a electric car is currently the greatest thing since sliced bread. I personally posted that it is not for me. If someone wants to buy a volt that is entirely up to them. Does anyone object to someone buying DPs? However posting incorrect facts for political points will not fly!

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#5952716 - 07/17/17 02:36 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
Ok Just got back from local dealer.
PRICED AS FOLLOWS.
2017 volt on the lot base model 32,864 plus tax & lic = 35,090 ky taxes 1 on lot
2017 volt some upgrades 39,897 plus tax & lic = 42,510 2 on lot
2017 volt loaded 43,878 plus tax & lic = 46,663 1 on lot

ALL rebates are gone.

Advertised tax credits are subject to tax bracket. That has just changed in last month.

So addicted how far off are those numbers from my "lies" as you put them.

Plus remember that was figuring gas at 3.19 gallon. Right now this minute it is 1.98 gallon here.



Edited by jbyrd63 (07/17/17 02:43 PM)

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#5952722 - 07/17/17 02:47 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
adictedangler.
I was only pointing out some facts that are willingly overlooked or knowingly covered up about the efficiency of todays electric vehicles. Just some things about the real carbon footprint ( ecological impact if you will ) Not even thinking about monetary savings. There are a lot of misconceptions out there regarding electric transport. Just pointing out that it is not as "green" as some folks would like us to believe.
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#5952726 - 07/17/17 02:48 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
ScottW Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 663
Loc: Barnum & Finland, MN
Originally Posted By: jbyrd63
Ok Just got back from local dealer.
PRICED AS FOLLOWS.
2017 volt on the lot base model 32,864 plus tax & lic = 35,090 ky taxes 1 on lot
2017 volt some upgrades 39,897 plus tax & lic = 42,510 2 on lot
2017 volt loaded 43,878 plus tax & lic = 46,663 1 on lot

ALL rebates are gone.

Advertised tax credits are subject to tax bracket. That has just changed in last month.

So addicted how far off are those numbers from my "lies" as you put them.

Plus remember that was figuring gas at 3.19 gallon. Right now this minute it is 1.98 gallon here.



So what you're getting at is that a new Prius is a better value right now, either that or a Tesla!

Interesting to hear the real world price quote though, definitely p;uts the "base" price back into perspective. In AA's defense, I think the prices he was referring to included the rebates which I'm guessing (but have no real idea) have disappeared fairly recently.

Happy trapping! ScottW

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#5952727 - 07/17/17 02:49 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
ScottW Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 663
Loc: Barnum & Finland, MN
Originally Posted By: Scuba1
adictedangler.
I was only pointing out some facts that are willingly overlooked or knowingly covered up about the efficiency of todays electric vehicles. Just some things about the real carbon footprint ( ecological impact if you will ) Not even thinking about monetary savings. There are a lot of misconceptions out there regarding electric transport. Just pointing out that it is not as "green" as some folks would like us to believe.


True dat. Happy trapping! ScottW

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#5952733 - 07/17/17 02:53 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
I think that was one of the points was the fed subsidies but if they have gone away( sounds like it based on sales managers at dealer) then let everyone buy what they want. I wasn't waving a political flag just venting about more fed money being wasted to "green" up the population.
DON'T KNOW FOR SURE so don't get fired up, but Trumps repeal of the " clean act" may have done away with the fed rebates....

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#5952751 - 07/17/17 03:20 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: addictedangler]
Trapper7 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 4517
Loc: MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted By: addictedangler
So what will you think of your Focus when gas goes to $5.00 a gallon? Or perhaps a war breaks out and it goes to $30.00 a gallon. Then sometime in the future run out of gas? I have no need for a electric car however I will not belittle someone and give false facts towards them. No I am not green but not stupid either! They currently recycle most batteries.[/qu[quote=addictedangler] Sorry but you did not check with the rebate you receive. That is list price. You need more info then your alternative news JB so yes that was a bogus report. Perhaps you need to check things out before posting from Unfair and Unbalanced. They lied about 75% of what was stated. I just checked the GM specks on the batteries. It appears they is no charge for any battery problem for 100,000 miles and I think 8 years. Sounds like a good deal for a warranty! Also replacement GM batteries start at $3,400.00. This price has been dropping as much as 35 percent a year for the last few years. Power windows and Bla, Bla, Bla. I guess you need some one to help drive it also? Give us a break!


You always make me laugh with your assessment of FOX NEWS. FOX is more fair and balanced than your favorites like CNN, NBC, ABC etc. I named a number of liberal reporters on FOX and asked you to name any conservative on the other stations. Your silence was deafening because there aren't any. These are the real biased news media outlets, not FOX like you always claim.
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#5952753 - 07/17/17 03:23 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Trapper7 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 4517
Loc: MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted By: jbyrd63
Ok Just got back from local dealer.
PRICED AS FOLLOWS.
2017 volt on the lot base model 32,864 plus tax & lic = 35,090 ky taxes 1 on lot
2017 volt some upgrades 39,897 plus tax & lic = 42,510 2 on lot
2017 volt loaded 43,878 plus tax & lic = 46,663 1 on lot

ALL rebates are gone.

Advertised tax credits are subject to tax bracket. That has just changed in last month.

So addicted how far off are those numbers from my "lies" as you put them.

Plus remember that was figuring gas at 3.19 gallon. Right now this minute it is 1.98 gallon here.



Don't waste your time. When your head is stuck in the sand.....
_________________________
If you're outraged about Melania Trump reciting the Lord's Prayer, but not Muslims screaming "Death to America", you might be a liberal.

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#5952766 - 07/17/17 03:35 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Gary Benson]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Gary Benson
Electric cars may be the answer in cities where folks have a short commute...and the populated areas are where the pollution is the worst. However you will never see an electric semi on the interstate or a farmer working ground with an electric tractor.


Wrong on both counts. Google it. When you put up info you should check to see if it is correct or just use IMO. Otherwise it is Fake News

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#5952769 - 07/17/17 03:39 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Scuba1
ScottW My experience is that a lot of folks think that electricity just comes out of the outlets in their hose. Most have little regard or thought about how the stuff gets there. Yes it is true, that modern power plants that work with super critical burners produce less pollution per KW/h produced then a modern small car engine. However, one has to take into account the loss ( resistance) of the power lines and the inefficiency of the charging cycle of even the most modern batteries. Plus the lifespan of those batteries and the impact they have on the environment . i.e. their production and " recycling". If you take all those figures into account, A modern small diesel engine in a small car looks pretty good as far as saving a buck and the planet goes. There are a lot more things to consider. Like the weight of the car powered by either batteries or a small engine and the energy it takes to accelerate the extra weight on those batteries and a host of other things that would take a loooong post on here to explain.
The bottom line is, that right now with current technology, The small diesel powered car wins hand down without even having to try to hard. Will that change in the future??? Probably. I doubt that I will see that day though.


Kinda makes you wonder why many trucking companies are ordering electric semi's rather than diesel.

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#5952773 - 07/17/17 03:48 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Where would we be if the government did not subsidize new industries that will benefit the public. Riding horses and using the Pony Express. No railroad. No telephone lines. No electric lines.

A less polluted world is a better world for all.

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#5952779 - 07/17/17 03:54 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Those who can read have an advantage most of the time. I said small diesel engines in small cars. Not semi trucks. But on that premise, I have not been overtaken by an electric semi truck on I 95 so far. Maybe they are not selling that "many"
Maybe they like to get from A to B at more the 12 MPH including charge times. just saying

Mtwildman.
Going by your answer, you must be one of those folks that think behind every electrickery outlet at home, there is a little fairy with a silver shovel, pushing the electrons through those holes. grin


Edited by Scuba1 (07/17/17 03:57 PM)
_________________________
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#5952782 - 07/17/17 04:03 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 3745
Loc: South metro, MN
Something tells me the govt wasn't doing it just to be nice and Help, Wildman.

After working for the govt for 20 years, I know they only do things for 2 reasons: Monetary and/or political gain.

I did see a Gas semi the other day. What's up with that?


Edited by Calvin (07/17/17 04:04 PM)
_________________________
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#5952783 - 07/17/17 04:04 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
TNcat Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 771
Loc: Middle Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman
Where would we be if the government did not subsidize new industries that will benefit the public. Riding horses and using the Pony Express. No railroad. No telephone lines. No electric lines.

A less polluted world is a better world for all.


Progress is what polluted the world. cool
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Y'ALL WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND

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#5952786 - 07/17/17 04:07 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BillyTraps Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/16
Posts: 279
Loc: eastern washington
Electric Semi Truck? I didnt even get to see the hydrogen semi truck

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#5952788 - 07/17/17 04:09 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BillyTraps Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/16
Posts: 279
Loc: eastern washington
VW made alot of small diesel cars...I dont think that worked out real well in the long run

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#5952789 - 07/17/17 04:11 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BillyTraps Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/16
Posts: 279
Loc: eastern washington
is there some confusion about TAX CREDITS and REBATES?

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#5952790 - 07/17/17 04:13 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: BillyTraps]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Originally Posted By: BillyTraps
VW made alot of small diesel cars...I dont think that worked out real well in the long run


They still do, just not for the US market anymore. Its another game of politics, don't get me started on that one. Lets just say that EU and US definitions on eco friendly tend to differ on the political floor.
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#5952791 - 07/17/17 04:13 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BillyTraps Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/16
Posts: 279
Loc: eastern washington
Does the gas guzzler tax offset the electric car tax credit? anyone know?

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#5952792 - 07/17/17 04:18 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Drifter Offline



Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 7415
Loc: Oakland, MS
I'm with you on the small diesel engines Scuba. Currently we can't import a small diesel Toyota or Nissan due to the EPA crap. I know a diesel engine is more efficient then a gas engine. I had a small Nissan diesel 2 wheel drive back before the ban that averaged 43 MPG and it was pretty wore out when I got it.

Resale value on the electric cars are hurting their sales as well. I see a bunch of so called experts denigrating folks for taking that into account in many articles about the Leaf and the Volt.

IMO we need to drop the federal subsidies to a more manageable level. It is insanity to keep throwing good money after bad on these wind turbines at the rate we are. Put up a few for research and design but don't throw up hundreds if not thousands that within a couple years there are no parts for when they break down.
_________________________
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~ ~Abraham Lincoln








Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .

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#5952810 - 07/17/17 04:32 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Drifter]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 3593
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin

Figures lie and liars figure

Bryce

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#5952820 - 07/17/17 04:47 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 4354
Loc: mn north of blakely
Whether we like it or not the market is going to change around us.

Volvo announced that by 2024 it will no longer make a conventional engine car, only hybrids or electric. Volvo is owned by a chinese company and China is the upcoming car market.

Tesla's market value exceeds Ford or GM. Who do you think Wall Street is betting on?

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#5952861 - 07/17/17 05:16 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
There will be an upswing in the coal mining I guess to keep the new power plants fed to get all those vehicles charged up if this electric vehicle thing really takes of.
On a less serious note. Do you think they will change the speed limit signs on the interstates to " do the best you can" grin
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#5952864 - 07/17/17 05:20 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 1611
Loc: Ky
LOL

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#5952868 - 07/17/17 05:23 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Scuba1
Those who can read have an advantage most of the time. I said small diesel engines in small cars. Not semi trucks. But on that premise, I have not been overtaken by an electric semi truck on I 95 so far. Maybe they are not selling that "many"
Maybe they like to get from A to B at more the 12 MPH including charge times. just saying

Mtwildman.
Going by your answer, you must be one of those folks that think behind every electrickery outlet at home, there is a little fairy with a silver shovel, pushing the electrons through those holes. grin



That is the absolute dumbest reply I have ever seen on this forum. But it only figures you would use "stupid" humor. All the rest of your replies show you don't know squat about the electric vehicle industry. It changes on a daily basis and you quote it's Stone Age.

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#5952870 - 07/17/17 05:25 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
LOL

I live of the grid, my lie revolves around inverters, batteries and generators on a day to day basis. I install that stuff on boats and do the math on capacity and usability. Got two new inverter chargers sitting here as I type ray to install for my customers.

If not much else, you are funny.


Edited by Scuba1 (07/17/17 05:28 PM)
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#5952874 - 07/17/17 05:27 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Scuba1
There will be an upswing in the coal mining I guess to keep the new power plants fed to get all those vehicles charged up if this electric vehicle thing really takes of.
On a less serious note. Do you think they will change the speed limit signs on the interstates to " do the best you can" grin


Check this out Mr Flintstone. http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/07/technology/motor-trend-tesla-acceleration/index.html


Tesla Model S is now the world's quickest car. Yes, Tesla
by Peter Valdes-Dapena @peterdrives February 7, 2017: 1:43 PM ET
Elon Musk in 90 Seconds
Elon Musk in 90 Seconds
The Tesla Model S can go from zero to 60 faster than any other street-legal car around. That includes Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Bugattis and any other crazy exotic sports car you can think of.

The Tesla Model S P100D, with 760 horsepower and all-wheel-drive, jumped from a dead stop to 60 miles an hour in 2.28 seconds in a test by Motor Trend. It's the first car to ever do that in under 2.3 seconds in the magazine's testing. With this sort of power, merging into the traffic on the highway is less of an issue than trying not to rear-end anyone while you're doing it.

That's quicker than high-priced hybrid supercars like the $1.5 million Ferrari LaFerrari, the $1.1 McLaren P1 or the $845,000 Porsche 918 Spyder.

For comparison, the Tesla Model S P100D costs about about $135,000. Also, those cars have just two seats each and barely any luggage space. The Tesla Model S, on other hand, has two spacious trunks and can seat up to seven, including two small children facing rearward.
tesla model s driving
The Tesla Model S, with its Ludicrous Easter Egg mode, can beat million-dollar Ferraris and Porsches off the line.

The Model S is also a fairly heavy car, but in this case that helps. The Tesla's nearly 5,000 pound weight, not including occupants, helps its tires grip the road, said Motor Trend writer Frank Markus. Given all the power that's pushed out by the electric motors, the wheels would just spin if it weren't for all that weight pushing the tires down onto the asphalt, he said.

Motor Trend ran its test using the car's "Ludicrous Easter Egg" mode, which provides even more acceleration than "regular" Ludicrous mode. In this mode, the car's battery temperature is raised slightly and the air conditioning is used to cool the motors. Once everything is ready, the driver uses a special "launch control" sequence of brake and accelerator pedal pushes to initiate the crushing ground-level blast-off.

Related - GM's Bolt EV ready to take on Tesla

The Tesla's 0-60 blast is a fairly limited trick, though. Its acceleration tapers off past 60. Other cars -- like the Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche -- can hit 70 and 80 miles an hour faster than the Tesla.

The Tesla would also lose to those cars at the drag strip. The Model S can run a quarter mile in 10.5 seconds reaching 125 miles an hour by the end, Markus said. But the Ferrari LaFerrari is still the fastest quarter-mile car the magazine has ever tested, making the run in 9.7 seconds and reaching 148.5 miles an hour.
CNNMoney (New York) First published February 7, 2017: 12:51 PM ET

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#5952878 - 07/17/17 05:31 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
I'll race that thing from here to PA and while he sits a third of the way for 8 hours charging the thing up I'll be there having a beers or 5 ..... Should get there on day three.
It has a range of 315 miles on a full charge. Then you have to park it at a charging station for 10 to 12 hours.
I'll keep my flintstone mobil ( Dodge Ram ) thank you very much.


Edited by Scuba1 (07/17/17 06:19 PM)
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#5952897 - 07/17/17 05:50 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BillyTraps Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/16
Posts: 279
Loc: eastern washington

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#5952919 - 07/17/17 06:12 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Scuba1
I'll race that thing from here to PA and while he sits a third of the way for 8 hours charging the thing up I'll be there having a beers or 5 ..... Should get there on day two.


Is this ignorant reply supposed to make your other replies "seem" more informed?

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#5952925 - 07/17/17 06:30 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
No, it was to point out one of the reasons why today batterie power can not compete with the internal combustion engine. It can fill a niche or two so far, but just has not got the versatility yet as long as we can not increase energy density of the batteries by a country mile. There have been big steps made in the last decade but its not up to snuff yet and will probably not be for years to come.
Your example of the Tesla is a good one. It utilizes a charger that needs to be plugged into 240V ....... like the charging ports they have at some gas stations and rest stops.
So given a trip of say From my place to visit the grand kid in PA.... its 788 miles door to door and usually takes me 10 to 12 hours including pee and fuel stops in my old Dodge.
te tesla has a range of 315 miles max on a full charge.
Now you got to take it someplace that has said 240 volts to charge it for 10 hours. Unless you want to sit in the thing and watch the charge meter, you are going to have to get a taxi to say a motel or a restaurant and eat for 10 hours. Now you do your second leg of the trip and get to 630 miles from home. Rinse and repeat.......... You get it now?? Probably not
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#5952931 - 07/17/17 06:40 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman


Is this ignorant reply supposed to make your other replies "seem" more informed?


No I am trying my best to dumb it down for your benefit.
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#5952955 - 07/17/17 07:05 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: cmcf]
Boone Liane Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 1918
Loc: MT
Originally Posted By: cmcf
One thing that NEVER gets mentioned. A Brit that has a weekend radio show about cars called car gab and owns two or three repair facilities. Says the electric cars are very heavy and require specific type of tires. And they wear them out much quicker. Very spendy.


You know what that means?

More rainforest deforestation to make room for more rubber plantations!!!

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#5952961 - 07/17/17 07:12 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 4639
Loc: Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman
Originally Posted By: Scuba1
I'll race that thing from here to PA and while he sits a third of the way for 8 hours charging the thing up I'll be there having a beers or 5 ..... Should get there on day two.


Is this ignorant reply supposed to make your other replies "seem" more informed?


Here's a reply for you then...

Quit looking down your nose and talking to everyone like you're some kind of clairvoyant genius.

Frankly, you just come off as an insufferable jerk.

Please return to your self-imposed exile.

Mike
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#5952965 - 07/17/17 07:17 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Ok so where does the electrickery in your outlets come from and how.
Taking into consideration the three conversion processes, thermal, mechanical and electrical, used to extract the energy from fossil fuels the overall efficiency of a modern fossil fuelled electrical power generating plant will be about 40%. This means that 60% of the energy input to the system is wasted. Mostly in the form of heat.
Now you plug in your charger. Lets take a modern inverter charger for efficiency. Not one of the old style transformer chargers with a bunch of copper windings in them that cause a lot of resistance and thus loss. Those things run at around 80% these days. So 20% again is wasted.
Next lets have a look at a batterie as used in electric cars. Like high end Li ion cells. They run at best at 88% so you are throwing 12% down the pan.
I have not taken into account the loss due to resistance in power lines, sub station transformers and the end transformers that get you back to the 240 volts the charger needs.
The efficiency of an electric motor is around 75 to 80 percent on a good day.
I am not going to take into account the higher weight you have to move around because of the batteries.

A moders diesel engine has an efficiency of around 45%



So ........ For every mile, one has to put about twice the energy into an electric car then in a modern little diesel.
So you have to burn two dinosaurs instead of one to go the same distance.

Flintstone out grin


Edited by Scuba1 (07/17/17 07:21 PM)
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#5952992 - 07/17/17 08:18 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
To round this off, Lets look at the specific energy in our fusillade fuels. Power plants use mostly coal if running on fossil fuel.
I'll let Mtwildman have a guess what our small diesel car runs on.

The average specific energy for coal is around 8 Wh/kg
The average specific energy for the stuff our diesel car runs on is 13.3 Wh/kg

So for the same distance traveled in either car, we have to transport around 3 times as much coal to a power plant then we have to bring diesel to a gas station.
That does not help along with the "green" mindset either does it.

So all that and the inconvenience of having to stop for 26 hours for a 12 boat trip

Nope I for one am not going to buy one of those electric cars anytime soon. Just can't bring myself to be that " progressive or green "
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#5952998 - 07/17/17 08:23 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
ScottW Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 663
Loc: Barnum & Finland, MN
I haven't read the last couple posts, but will later. It's hard to jump from a Volt to a Tesla cause Tesla's are kinda the exception to the norm right now. About 75 mins for a full or close to full charge at a supercharger. That's not horrible. Happy Trapping! ScottW
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...SkSU08xR_qCoR2g


Edited by ScottW (07/17/17 08:28 PM)

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#5953006 - 07/17/17 08:33 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Those things are few and far between these days. So on your normal longish road trip one would have to spend a lot of time finding the super charge places or make do with what is more or less readily available. But that is just the inconvenience factor and plays no role in the energy used per mile.
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#5953015 - 07/17/17 08:45 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
The point I was trying to make was that you get a lot of folks that say " what if the fossil fuel runs out " as an argument for buying an electric car. Then drive the thing around burning 3 times as much of that stuff then they would with a small diesel powered one.
As long as we don't find a way to produce electricity on a large scale with something like fusion , we just can't afford to be that wasteful with it under false pretense of being green and drive electric cars, no matter how good those cars get.
With all the fuels that we use, we still just boil water and run it over turbines that where used in pre WWI battle ships. Not much fundamental advancements have been made at the very base of our energy conversion. That is where more research should be done IMHO
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#5953089 - 07/17/17 10:03 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman


Kinda makes you wonder why many trucking companies are ordering electric semi's rather than diesel.


My BS meter has just redlined. grin

Sure those companies are falling over each other to get trucks that can do 300 miles with a 14 ton batterie. Are you even on the right planet ??

https://www.wired.com/2017/06/elon-musk-tesla-semi-truck-battery/

So I guess 36 electric semi trucks just pulled up at your local wally world to stock up the beer fridge. They can only hold a couple of six packs each because they have their 20 ton batterie in the back to get them around crazy


Edited by Scuba1 (07/17/17 10:10 PM)
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#5953133 - 07/17/17 10:58 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: addictedangler]
AntiGov Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/05/14
Posts: 3307
Loc: Central Oregon
Originally Posted By: addictedangler
Sorry but you did not check with the rebate you receive. That is list price. You need more info then your alternative news JB so yes that was a bogus report. Perhaps you need to check things out before posting from Unfair and Unbalanced. They lied about 75% of what was stated. I just checked the GM specks on the batteries. It appears they is no charge for any battery problem for 100,000 miles and I think 8 years. Sounds like a good deal for a warranty! Also replacement GM batteries start at $3,400.00. This price has been dropping as much as 35 percent a year for the last few years. Power windows and Bla, Bla, Bla. I guess you need some one to help drive it also? Give us a break!


Keep dreaming addict, and don't forget to wave your rainbow flag.......
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#5953178 - 07/18/17 01:21 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
cmcf Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/15
Posts: 1094
Loc: Wyoming
In the last week I personally hauled over fifty THOUSAND GALLONS of diesel fuel to various truck stops and gas stations. I hauled it with a very large caterpillar engine and an eighteen speed eaton trans.Ten thousand seven hundred gallons per load. Hundreds of miles at up to seventy five miles per hour. My Peterbuilt gets almost FOUR miles to the gallon. I hauled exactly zero kilowatts. I also hauled as much or more gasoline of various grades. Electric tractors and simi trailers?
Like Larry The Cable Guy says that's funny stuff right there, I don't care who you are! Yesterday I made two round trips between Cheyenne and Rawlins twenty one thousand four hundred gallons of DIESEL FUEL five hundred ninety two miles in about ten hours. You show me an electric tractor pulling a set of doubles grossing a hundred and twelve thousand pounds that can do that and I will kiss your butt and give you thirty minutes to draw a crowd. AA and mtwildmn you need a safe place with a tree to hug? Maybe you can follow one of those electric rigs to the Charmin TP factory they have to have some trees to make all that paper! The Jetsons was one of my favorite cartoons when I was a kid but I knew they were CARTOONS. Fossil fuels, and I'm not totally convinced they are "fossil" are THE energy source for modern civilization, and will be for the foreseeable future. And as an aside, with all those thousands of nasty diesel simis and coal fired electric generating plants the air here is very crisp and clean thank you very much. Electric tractor trailers, STILL LMAO. Like I told an idiot that was bragging about being a sniper in the Marines and using a 460 Weatherby magnum as his sniper rifle. If you spout off to enough people about stuff you don't have a clue about, you WILL run into someone that will call you on it. Just saying.

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#5953189 - 07/18/17 04:19 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman
Originally Posted By: Scuba1
ScottW My experience is that a lot of folks think that electricity just comes out of the outlets in their hose. Most have little regard or thought about how the stuff gets there. Yes it is true, that modern power plants that work with super critical burners produce less pollution per KW/h produced then a modern small car engine. However, one has to take into account the loss ( resistance) of the power lines and the inefficiency of the charging cycle of even the most modern batteries. Plus the lifespan of those batteries and the impact they have on the environment . i.e. their production and " recycling". If you take all those figures into account, A modern small diesel engine in a small car looks pretty good as far as saving a buck and the planet goes. There are a lot more things to consider. Like the weight of the car powered by either batteries or a small engine and the energy it takes to accelerate the extra weight on those batteries and a host of other things that would take a loooong post on here to explain.
The bottom line is, that right now with current technology, The small diesel powered car wins hand down without even having to try to hard. Will that change in the future??? Probably. I doubt that I will see that day though.


Kinda makes you wonder why many trucking companies are ordering electric semi's rather than diesel.

Shag trucks in a parking lot..
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#5953190 - 07/18/17 04:21 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman
Where would we be if the government did not subsidize new industries that will benefit the public. Riding horses and using the Pony Express. No railroad. No telephone lines. No electric lines.

A less polluted world is a better world for all.


We wouldn't be 20 trillion in debt...
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#5953191 - 07/18/17 04:29 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Scuba1
There will be an upswing in the coal mining I guess to keep the new power plants fed to get all those vehicles charged up if this electric vehicle thing really takes of.
On a less serious note. Do you think they will change the speed limit signs on the interstates to " do the best you can" grin

Electric semis will have a "NASCAR" setting on the cruise control....
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#5953192 - 07/18/17 04:35 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman
Originally Posted By: Scuba1
There will be an upswing in the coal mining I guess to keep the new power plants fed to get all those vehicles charged up if this electric vehicle thing really takes of.
On a less serious note. Do you think they will change the speed limit signs on the interstates to " do the best you can" grin


Check this out Mr Flintstone. http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/07/technology/motor-trend-tesla-acceleration/index.html


Tesla Model S is now the world's quickest car. Yes, Tesla
by Peter Valdes-Dapena @peterdrives February 7, 2017: 1:43 PM ET
Elon Musk in 90 Seconds
Elon Musk in 90 Seconds
The Tesla Model S can go from zero to 60 faster than any other street-legal car around. That includes Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Bugattis and any other crazy exotic sports car you can think of.

The Tesla Model S P100D, with 760 horsepower and all-wheel-drive, jumped from a dead stop to 60 miles an hour in 2.28 seconds in a test by Motor Trend. It's the first car to ever do that in under 2.3 seconds in the magazine's testing. With this sort of power, merging into the traffic on the highway is less of an issue than trying not to rear-end anyone while you're doing it.

That's quicker than high-priced hybrid supercars like the $1.5 million Ferrari LaFerrari, the $1.1 McLaren P1 or the $845,000 Porsche 918 Spyder.

For comparison, the Tesla Model S P100D costs about about $135,000. Also, those cars have just two seats each and barely any luggage space. The Tesla Model S, on other hand, has two spacious trunks and can seat up to seven, including two small children facing rearward.
tesla model s driving
The Tesla Model S, with its Ludicrous Easter Egg mode, can beat million-dollar Ferraris and Porsches off the line.

The Model S is also a fairly heavy car, but in this case that helps. The Tesla's nearly 5,000 pound weight, not including occupants, helps its tires grip the road, said Motor Trend writer Frank Markus. Given all the power that's pushed out by the electric motors, the wheels would just spin if it weren't for all that weight pushing the tires down onto the asphalt, he said.

Motor Trend ran its test using the car's "Ludicrous Easter Egg" mode, which provides even more acceleration than "regular" Ludicrous mode. In this mode, the car's battery temperature is raised slightly and the air conditioning is used to cool the motors. Once everything is ready, the driver uses a special "launch control" sequence of brake and accelerator pedal pushes to initiate the crushing ground-level blast-off.

Related - GM's Bolt EV ready to take on Tesla

The Tesla's 0-60 blast is a fairly limited trick, though. Its acceleration tapers off past 60. Other cars -- like the Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche -- can hit 70 and 80 miles an hour faster than the Tesla.

The Tesla would also lose to those cars at the drag strip. The Model S can run a quarter mile in 10.5 seconds reaching 125 miles an hour by the end, Markus said. But the Ferrari LaFerrari is still the fastest quarter-mile car the magazine has ever tested, making the run in 9.7 seconds and reaching 148.5 miles an hour.
CNNMoney (New York) First published February 7, 2017: 12:51 PM ET

Odd...they ditn't mention how long the battery lasted...or maybe they did...up to 60 mph???
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#5953193 - 07/18/17 04:39 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Scuba1
I'll race that thing from here to PA and while he sits a third of the way for 8 hours charging the thing up I'll be there having a beers or 5 ..... Should get there on day three.
It has a range of 315 miles on a full charge. Then you have to park it at a charging station for 10 to 12 hours.
I'll keep my flintstone mobil ( Dodge Ram ) thank you very much.


If a person can afford the $135k price tag, they pull their own generator ( gas burner) behind them on a trailer.
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#5953194 - 07/18/17 04:52 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: cmcf]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted By: cmcf
In the last week I personally hauled over fifty THOUSAND GALLONS of diesel fuel to various truck stops and gas stations. I hauled it with a very large caterpillar engine and an eighteen speed eaton trans.Ten thousand seven hundred gallons per load. Hundreds of miles at up to seventy five miles per hour. My Peterbuilt gets almost FOUR miles to the gallon. I hauled exactly zero kilowatts. I also hauled as much or more gasoline of various grades. Electric tractors and simi trailers?
Like Larry The Cable Guy says that's funny stuff right there, I don't care who you are! Yesterday I made two round trips between Cheyenne and Rawlins twenty one thousand four hundred gallons of DIESEL FUEL five hundred ninety two miles in about ten hours. You show me an electric tractor pulling a set of doubles grossing a hundred and twelve thousand pounds that can do that and I will kiss your butt and give you thirty minutes to draw a crowd. AA and mtwildmn you need a safe place with a tree to hug? Maybe you can follow one of those electric rigs to the Charmin TP factory they have to have some trees to make all that paper! The Jetsons was one of my favorite cartoons when I was a kid but I knew they were CARTOONS. Fossil fuels, and I'm not totally convinced they are "fossil" are THE energy source for modern civilization, and will be for the foreseeable future. And as an aside, with all those thousands of nasty diesel simis and coal fired electric generating plants the air here is very crisp and clean thank you very much. Electric tractor trailers, STILL LMAO. Like I told an idiot that was bragging about being a sniper in the Marines and using a 460 Weatherby magnum as his sniper rifle. If you spout off to enough people about stuff you don't have a clue about, you WILL run into someone that will call you on it. Just saying.

Spot on!
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#5953198 - 07/18/17 05:18 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15549
Loc: Nebraska
The article makes some very good points, but whoever wrote it is very confused about the price of electricity. It doesn't cost $1.68/kwh. The national average cost of electricity is 11.88 cents per kilowatt-hour.
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#5953200 - 07/18/17 05:34 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Calvin]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15549
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Calvin
Good one Addicted...

Ya...what if gas goes to $30 a gallon? I will love the 40mpg focus even more then. I'm on my 3rd one. And what if Martians come down and stick us all in cages and feed us gravel? Paranoid much?

So I can buy 2 new gas powered Focuses for less than my buddy's wife made him buy a Chevy Volt for and have several grand leftover...and that's a bad thing?

$3,600 for a replacement battery is suppose to be a good deal? who knew?

"Recycle the batteries"...Love it. I suppose they just turn all those worn out batteries into puppies smile

Honestly, I hope they get this electro thing figured out one day. We're not there yet tho...not even close. People are getting rich selling this stuff to the Greenies, however.



Well said. My brother and I got to talking about this a couple of weeks ago, and it seems we both had the same idea of what the infrastructure is going to have to look like to make wide scale electric car use a reality.

It is going to take stations that swap out standardized batteries, not charging stations. A place where you can pull up, stick your credit card into a slot, and a machine changes your battery out for a fully charged one, then takes that battery to a charging station and plugs it in for a recharge to repeat the process with another car 10 hours later.

I do like the hybrids for city use. Last summer I rented a hybrid and drove it around San Jose, CA for a week. Before I returned it to Hertz I filled it up and it only took 3 gallons of gas.
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#5953294 - 07/18/17 07:53 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
One thing about the original article that made me chuckle was that the extra weight made the Tesla accelerate better because of the higher pressure on the wheels. Well this is good news for the racing crowd. They can stop using all this expensive kevlar and carbon fiber to make the cars lighter and just weld them together out of half inch plate. Fast and safe at the same time. A true win win situation. grin
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#5953414 - 07/18/17 10:28 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Looks like some of you have been real busy making "sense" of things. Just like your ancestors made fools of themselves using their "common sense" to decry the stupidity of the automobile and just about everything else man has invented. The problem with common sense is you have to have some to recognize what it "really" is. While you folks have been showing how incredibly intelligent you are not. The world has been moving on eventually leaving you where your ancestors are --- VERY QUIET. In the meantime. Here are a couple eye openers for where we are now, whilst you are still decrying it will never work. You know those big choo choos with diesel engines? They use small diesel engines to drive "electric" generators to move those big ole heavy choo choos. Been doing it for years. Must be a common sense reason there somewhere eh? You can't find it? Oh well. We already knew that. Since some of you think load capacity is the "number one" limiter for electric engines. Well this shoots that in the arse= http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/environment/worlds-biggest-dump-truck-goes-electric . They are going to build a ferry also. Then there are the hydrogen electric trucks, including semis. Some of you seem to think that "charging" a huge battery is the only way to power a electric vehicle and that will never work. You may be right in that it has its limitations. Good thing those working in the field don't have your mindset. Although they are working and improving the platform they have. They are also looking way beyond that (a concept you may never understand with your Neanderthal Thinking). Instead of getting behind green energy and realizing you have to break some eggs to make a omelet. Green Energy will make everyones lives better in many ways but it cannot just be born. It has to be developed. So either lead or follow. Just get out of the way.

Wyoming trucker. You do realize you are breathing the same air as everyone else in the world. I lived in a valley in Montana. Right there in the Rocky Mountains where the air pollution settles in the valleys and you can tell the difference just driving into it. Heck I could "taste" the pollution just getting close to Missoula. You suffer from the same disease as the CC people who believe moving manufacturing will reduce pollution. It starts with an "S".

Rebuilding the world for the future is the next endeavor to giving man purpose.

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#5953485 - 07/18/17 11:59 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
And what turns them generators??? You said it yourself. SMFH


Edited by Gary Benson (07/18/17 12:02 PM)
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#5953500 - 07/18/17 12:13 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
cmcf Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/15
Posts: 1094
Loc: Wyoming
I'm so glad you chose to respond MtWildman! As I stated before IF you continue to spout off about stuff you don't know about you WILL run into someone that does. First those "little diesel engines that run electric generators in locomotives" are as big as pickup trucks and weigh about six times as much. And yes they run generators. It is called a diesel electric power system and is the same system that is used in the cat wagons used in mines that haul the material being mined. They are used NOT FOR EFFICIENCY
BUT FOR A MORE FLUID TRANSFER OF POWER. If you use an internal combustion engine and link it to the drivers via a mechanical drive train with drive shafts and ring and pinion
gears and planetary drive axles, when you try to overcome the massive amount of inertia involved with millions of tons or even hundreds of tons as the cat wagons haul, you start BREAKING THINGS because a clutch is the only part that eases the power of a spinning engine to the drivers that are stationary. The massive amount of torque generated by the DIESEL ENGINES THAT ARE BIG ENOUGH TO MOVE THOSE KINDS OF LOADS are the irresistible force, and the inertia of the load is the immovable object. Parts shatter like soda crackers.

And about the toxic air you could "TASTE" in Missoula. I drove for a company based in Missoula Mt. Sammons Trucking to be precise.
The stench that you smelled and yes tasted, had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DISCUSSION AT HAND. IT COMES FROM A PAPER MILL LOCATED IN
MILLTOWN MONTANA on the eastern edge of Missoula. Once again you let your alligator mouth over load your tadpole butt.

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#5953509 - 07/18/17 12:26 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
cmcf Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/15
Posts: 1094
Loc: Wyoming
And an after thought Those "little diesel engines" you talked about, don't get miles to the gallon as you probably believe, they GET GALLONS TO THE MILE. The trains in this local generally have six to eight locomotives per string of cars. There fuel tanks are about a thousand gallons each x2 per locomotive.

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#5953513 - 07/18/17 12:30 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Drifter Offline



Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 7415
Loc: Oakland, MS
Quote:
You know those big choo choos with diesel engines? They use small diesel engines to drive "electric" generators to move those big ole heavy choo choos.


Since when is a 4200 horse power diesel engine small?

Two ways that fuel consumption is computed are gallons per hour and ton miles per gallon. Older units such as SD45s burned around 196 gallons per hour at full rack. Newer, more efficient prime movers are putting out comparably more horsepower at around 138 gallons per hour at full rack.

Your constant condescending posts sure don't help your argument.
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#5953524 - 07/18/17 12:47 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
cmcf Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/15
Posts: 1094
Loc: Wyoming
Thanks Drifter for the post. I didn't know the horse power on the locomotives but I have stood and watched mechanics work on them they are huge.

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#5953583 - 07/18/17 01:49 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Kyt Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 895
Loc: Kentucky
Here's the thing for me: If I had my druthers all the oil and derivatives(mostly gasoline) we use would come from the USA. Americans would produce it, refine it,pump it and use it. No foreigners would profit from it, arm themselves to the teeth with proceeds from it, and kill us and threaten us with its financing.
We are more energy independent now, but we are a long way from needing no oil from the middle east.
If you have an electric car, the generator that charges it may burn switchgrass, coal, natural gas, heck, trees if need be, or be nuclear to produce the electricity. We can do all of that here with American workers and American resources. If we did nothing else but transfer the wealth going from the U.S. to Arabs, instead to Americans, this country would take a leap in prosperity.

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#5953608 - 07/18/17 02:16 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Drifter]
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 4639
Loc: Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Drifter
Quote:
You know those big choo choos with diesel engines? They use small diesel engines to drive "electric" generators to move those big ole heavy choo choos.


Since when is a 4200 horse power diesel engine small?

Two ways that fuel consumption is computed are gallons per hour and ton miles per gallon. Older units such as SD45s burned around 196 gallons per hour at full rack. Newer, more efficient prime movers are putting out comparably more horsepower at around 138 gallons per hour at full rack.

Your constant condescending posts sure don't help your argument.



How many cylinders in the power plant of an SD70?

12 or 16 isn't it?

CSX had that TV commercial a few years back about moving a ton of goods 400 miles on one gallon of diesel.

Pretty impressive.

Mike
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#5953684 - 07/18/17 03:51 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Drifter Offline



Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 7415
Loc: Oakland, MS
Engine Builder: EMD Engine: 710G3C-ES 16 cylinder
Bore & Stroke 9.02" X 11"
RPM (Maximum / Minimum) 904 /318
Main Generator: GM TA17/CA7A Horsepower: 4300

Another thing most don't know. All through the winter they idle non stop as they run straight water for coolant. Moving products by barge is even cheaper.

SD 70 specs


Edited by Drifter (07/18/17 03:55 PM)
Edit Reason: added link
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#5953687 - 07/18/17 03:56 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 23205
Loc: McGrath, AK
Pete: why do they use straight water ??
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#5953695 - 07/18/17 04:15 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
MtWildman I hope you accept my apology. I seem to have made a the mistake ion not dumbing the subject matter down enough for you to get a grasp on it. Sorry about that.

ATB

Michael
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#5953708 - 07/18/17 04:33 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: white17]
Drifter Offline



Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 7415
Loc: Oakland, MS
Because of environmental concerns if spring a leak or a derailment was the explination I received.
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#5953739 - 07/18/17 05:00 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: ]
hippie Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 3575
Loc: pa
Originally Posted By: Mtwildman
Looks like some of you have been real busy making "sense" of things. Just like your ancestors made fools of themselves using their "common sense" to decry the stupidity of the automobile and just about everything else man has invented. The problem with common sense is you have to have some to recognize what it "really" is. While you folks have been showing how incredibly intelligent you are not. The world has been moving on eventually leaving you where your ancestors are --- VERY QUIET. In the meantime. Here are a couple eye openers for where we are now, whilst you are still decrying it will never work. You know those big choo choos with diesel engines? They use small diesel engines to drive "electric" generators to move those big ole heavy choo choos. Been doing it for years. Must be a common sense reason there somewhere eh? You can't find it? Oh well. We already knew that. Since some of you think load capacity is the "number one" limiter for electric engines. Well this shoots that in the arse= http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/environment/worlds-biggest-dump-truck-goes-electric . They are going to build a ferry also. Then there are the hydrogen electric trucks, including semis. Some of you seem to think that "charging" a huge battery is the only way to power a electric vehicle and that will never work. You may be right in that it has its limitations. Good thing those working in the field don't have your mindset. Although they are working and improving the platform they have. They are also looking way beyond that (a concept you may never understand with your Neanderthal Thinking). Instead of getting behind green energy and realizing you have to break some eggs to make a omelet. Green Energy will make everyones lives better in many ways but it cannot just be born. It has to be developed. So either lead or follow. Just get out of the way.

Wyoming trucker. You do realize you are breathing the same air as everyone else in the world. I lived in a valley in Montana. Right there in the Rocky Mountains where the air pollution settles in the valleys and you can tell the difference just driving into it. Heck I could "taste" the pollution just getting close to Missoula. You suffer from the same disease as the CC people who believe moving manufacturing will reduce pollution. It starts with an "S".

Rebuilding the world for the future is the next endeavor to giving man purpose.


That's quite the "electric" dump truck. It only take 2 diesel engines of 16 cly. each to drive the generator.
You have no excuse this time, full moon was last week, lol.

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#5953788 - 07/18/17 06:14 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
The part that Mtwildman can't get his head around that all those fancy concepts still need coal to boil water to drive steam turbines to get the energy that is needed to to charge batteries or split water into hydrogen and oxygen. It does not come from fairy farts. To drive those electric cars, you just have more losses due to multiple energy conversions and this have to burn more fuel to do the same work. Its really simple
The laws of physics are called laws for a reason. And no matter what one tries, there is no way around them.
You can't have an electric generator powered by an electric motor and on top of that expect to run a lightbulb with the leftovers. It just does not work that way.
Welcome to reality Mtwildman.


Edited by Scuba1 (07/18/17 06:27 PM)
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#5953805 - 07/18/17 06:30 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Friend of mine worked for a RR in Cedar Rapids back in the day. They even changed oil in the choo choo's while they were running. Just exchanged it. Sorta like.
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#5954199 - 07/19/17 12:38 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Drifter Offline



Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 7415
Loc: Oakland, MS
I know from a man hat rebuilds them for Burlington Northern when they first lite them off it takes a can of either per cylinder.
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"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
~ ~Abraham Lincoln








Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .

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#5954218 - 07/19/17 01:17 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 2679
Loc: Coldspring Texas
Unfortunately I didn't have time to read all of the posts on this topic.....but Just in case it wasn't stated before I'll go on and say it here

.....anyone that drives an electric vehicle is a cross dressing, transgendered, sandall wearing, beard oil using, gender neutral, wanna be tennis player
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#5954231 - 07/19/17 03:35 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
danny clifton Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 9162
Loc: williamsburg ks
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#5954260 - 07/19/17 05:47 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Savell]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Savell
Unfortunately I didn't have time to read all of the posts on this topic.....but Just in case it wasn't stated before I'll go on and say it here

.....anyone that drives an electric vehicle is a cross dressing, transgendered, sandall wearing, beard oil using, gender neutral, wanna be tennis player

Nope...that hadnt been covered yet. Really....beard oil???
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#5954324 - 07/19/17 07:14 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15549
Loc: Nebraska
How about those electric flying cars? They could have a helicopter blade on the top and windmill blades on the bottom. The helicopter blade would drive the windmill blade to generate electricity, which would then power the helicopter blade. You'd never have to recharge it.

laugh
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#5954329 - 07/19/17 07:19 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
I think the Russians have a few of that design grin Counter rotating to boot to cover all wind directions
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#5954529 - 07/19/17 11:25 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Drifter]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 23205
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: Drifter
Because of environmental concerns if spring a leak or a derailment was the explination I received.



I wouldn't think the volume of coolant in those engines would be anything compared to the fuel onboard. A lot of the heavy equipment in this country uses diesel in the cooling systems.
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#5954738 - 07/19/17 04:35 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
The new Queen Mary is driven by electric motors at the prop side. But they still run big diesel engines to run the generators that power them. In Germany, we have had diesel electric shrimp trawlers for over 40 years. The new German Baltic subs are powered by hydrogen fuel cells. But ya still have to use more power to split water into oxygen and hydrogen.
Mtwildman, before you copy and paste those articles, read them beyond the bit where you get to the first " electric" word. Then things may become a little clearer to even you.
You can't just dig a hole in your garden, wait for it to fill with hydrogen and then shovel that stuff into a fuel cell to run your toaster. That is not how it works
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#5954793 - 07/19/17 05:53 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: Scuba1]
Mtwildman
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Scuba1
The new Queen Mary is driven by electric motors at the prop side. But they still run big diesel engines to run the generators that power them. In Germany, we have had diesel electric shrimp trawlers for over 40 years. The new German Baltic subs are powered by hydrogen fuel cells. But ya still have to use more power to split water into oxygen and hydrogen.
Mtwildman, before you copy and paste those articles, read them beyond the bit where you get to the first " electric" word. Then things may become a little clearer to even you.
You can't just dig a hole in your garden, wait for it to fill with hydrogen and then shovel that stuff into a fuel cell to run your toaster. That is not how it works


Look, someone decided to not allow me to defend myself against your incompetent stupidity. So maybe you should just keep your mouth shut.

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#5954815 - 07/19/17 06:19 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
coyotesoldier229 Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 282
Loc: PA
Quote:
.....anyone that drives an electric vehicle is a cross dressing, transgendered, sandall wearing, beard oil using, gender neutral, wanna be tennis player


Now that's funny and exactly what I was thinking.

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#5954844 - 07/19/17 07:04 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
My incompetence may derive from writing a paper on renewable energy when I did my engineering degree. Worked as a development engineer for Enercon, a company that is still at the forefront of wind generators that have no gearbox and produce energy at as little as 12 RPM. I can't disclose fully how that works but the principle is similar to a magnetic rail. I left there for personal reasons, not due to incompetence or stupidity.
I could put numbers with the corresponding formulas about what I was trying to explain to you in the most basic way that I know how.
But I would think that the whoosh sound people talk about when things go over ones head would be more like a sonic boom.
It may or may not be your fault that you do not understand the basics of physics. I am willing to help you understand it if you are willing to accept that you have a deficiency in that area.

ATB

Michael
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#5954860 - 07/19/17 07:20 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
I'll try to make it easy for your benefit.
If one ants to power a car, lawnmower, dumbstruck or whatever else by electricity or Hydrogen...... pick anything you want other then fossil fuels in this example.
Electricity does not just happen. It has to be " made " one has to use something that contains energy and transform that into electricity. Coal, oil, Natural gas, Uranium.
The way that is done today is to either burn the stuff or fusion is in the case of uranium. The energy that is released is used to boil water, turn it into steam, run it through a series of turbines that drive generators. Then it gets transformed, put into the national grid and is almost ready to use.
Now you can use that electric energy to split water into its two elements. Oxygen and hydrogen. But you are going to loose some energy in every transformation. Even if you use it to charge up a batterie.
But the start of this chain of events on a large scale always starts with extracting energy from whatever fuel you choose and turn water into steam at a pretty big loss. And you loose energy whenever you want to change from one form of energy to another. Mostly through heat. Thats just the rule of the game and no form of wishful thinking can overcome that.


Edited by Scuba1 (07/19/17 07:22 PM)
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#5954968 - 07/19/17 09:17 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
BuckNE Offline
"Dirk Studmuffin"

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 15549
Loc: Nebraska
Fission from Uranium

And I still like my flying car perpetual motion idea.
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#5954974 - 07/19/17 09:26 PM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Sorry ..... my bad.


But he has the electric semi thing right .... I just did some research

Web exclusive! Become the king of the road with a World Tech Toys semi truck. You can drive it on its own or attach the back-trailer for a full effect. Darken the room and you'll be treated to a great show with the LED lights, plus the full function radio control allows you to steer this rig in any direction. Amp up the fun in your house or on your driveway with this semi trailer truck.


Truck linky thing


Now you could just up the scale a lot and there you are. But then you will need several strong folks to work the leavers on the remote


Edited by Scuba1 (07/19/17 09:32 PM)
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#5955070 - 07/20/17 05:02 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4427
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
So you're saying that The Professor on Gilligans Island was just fooling us when he made a generator out of coconut shells and driftwood? I was sure it was real!
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#5955127 - 07/20/17 07:41 AM Re: REAL cost of an ELECTRIC car. [Re: jbyrd63]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 2737
Loc: On a Boat
Garry ..... buy a few copper and some sink nails and a couple of lemons. I betcha you can power your whole house with it. crazy
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