wondering to know if 525 pd break away s hook is enough to keep wolf

I would say not the best. I was always told 700 min. Guess it depends if you like to loose wolves or how big the wolves are you chase.
That being said I did kill a big black 2 years ago in a coyote snare with a 235lb and a small killer spring with camlock on a tree that was 2.5 inches around. Thing died real quick

I wouldn’t... saw a snare yesterday for wolf with an S hook used to secure cable around a tree. IIn our area if non trappers saw a wolf running around with a snare on it, that would be the end of trapping in an already overly regulated island!

Sobie2

In Alaska, we experimented with many break-away systems. The one we finally settled on was 7/64 1x19 GAC double swaged with 1/8 aluminum double ferrule. This was relatively consistent with break-away between 700 and 750 lbs. I have seen a handful of wolves break away with that system. Having said that, I would expect that 525 is a bit light.

Jack

So I take it the weak spot was the 1/8" ferrule?

Yeah drasselt, that was the idea, to have it break away at the double ferrule for moose, but hold together for wolves.

A 750 LB breakaway for wolves is ideal IMO. Moose will open it up with little effort. A lighter breakaway will work on wovles with a perfect catch (280 or more), any fight and they will open the breakaway though. They won't open a 750.

Spruce

I used those for a bit Jack, but released too many wolves and went back to cut Thompson locks. When a wolf tangles low they were able to leg press up and pop that ferrule. I also have too many coyotes which as you know I’m sure, are not compatible with that snare. It may have been the assembly of the snare that caused my problems as I I also had two pull the cable off the 9wire. This was a while back when they were first offered by only one snare manufacturer.
I still lose catches but weather here is not conducive to cam locks. Thompson lock quality is not what it used to be. I wish they were still stamped from the thicker diameter steel and a much harder steel would also be fantastic.

X2 on the Thompson locks. Another problem with the newer Thompson' locks is that they are not stamping the holes centered in the lock. That makes one side considerably weaker than the other side, which means the lock is only as strong as it's weakest point. I recently sorted through 300 of their 7/64th size locks and found only 36 out of the whole bunch that had the holes punched in the center line of the lock. I cut breakaway slots in these 36, then heated them up and tempered them to increase the hardness of the steel. I made these 3 doz up into wolf snares, and tossed the other 264 locks in the junk pile. The old locks that Thompson made were by far my favorite lock. These newer ones, not so much.

Haven't had enough wolves around lately to do much of a test to see if the tempering of the locks made a noticeable difference.

And no, 525 lbs is not enough to hold the bigger wolves consistently. I did some testing on cut and hammered 3/32nd thompson locks a few years ago. Due to the variation in the strength of the locks, depending on how off centered the holes were, the locks were failing at between 550 and 650 lbs of pull. And the bigger wolves were popping those locks on a regular basis.

I think if the locks were stamped out symmetrically they would be breaking away pretty consistently at around 650 lbs, providing that the cut was hammered down tight. But as it is, they are not very consistent at all.

Spek we had some issues with 3/32 Thompson locks this weekend also. Here is a photo os a cut and hammered one that failed on us this weekend, luckily we still picked up the wolf in the next snare.

If you look close at this picture, you can see where the cable actually formed a groove into the lock. It is almost as if the GAC "filed" the lock from movement. This didn't just happen on this one lock, but two others as well, where you could see the cable "filed" the lock so it wouldn't cinch down. Disappointing.

C. Gardner tested some 3/32 coyote snares for me back then. Keiper locks If I recall they let loose around 1000 - 1200 lbs. Still they released all moose. But it's warmer here than the interior and we had them tied to stout trees, not brush. Got lucky I suppose. Now there are so few moose around it's not the problem that it once was. These were mainly used as coyote snares.

Fish, that is a problem I see a lot too. The locks are made of cold rolled steel and the steel is to soft. Most of the time they will lock properly, but too many of them will round off the edge like your picture shows. That is why I am trying to temper them myself, to make them harder and stop them from rounding off. That lock you show also has the hole off centered, not as bad as some of them, but still not centered.


Drasselt, thanks for the comments about the Keiper locks. I have been wanting to try them out, do you prefer them over the Thompson locks? I've never held one, but from what I understand they are made with tempered steel, and I have heard of at least one breaking due to the steel being too brittle. Would like to know what your thoughts are on them.

Spek we bought a bunch of pre made snares from somewhere and they had the keiper locks but that was 20 +years ago! Most of them have cycled through not sure now if I still have some or not but probably do, mixed in with arsenal. I'll make a point of keeping an eye out for them, I still have to get my gear put away from this year. If I find some, I'll let you know but I never had any break on coyotes or wolves. It is possible moose broke some but it seems the end stop let go on most or all. My brother gave me a dozen old Thompson 7/64 a couple years ago, original locks, I was going to pass them along but it sounds like I better hang onto them!

Thanks Drasselt.

Here's a picture of a new T lock with the holes punched off center. This one is pretty extreme. To me it's just hard to believe any business would let something like this go out the door. This is a 3/32 lock.


This is a sample of a 7/64. The weak side of these locks is going to bend out easily when the lock is cut for a break away.


An old style 7/64 with the holes punched in the center. Don't believe I ever saw one of the old ones punched off-center.


The old style Thompson locks (pictured on the left) had a tapered hole where the lock binds on the cable, whereas the new ones, pictured on the right, have a round hole. Seems to me the tapered hole would lock on the cable better than the round hole, but don't know for sure. But that's one sure way to identify whether a lock is the old style or not.

Spek,
I think the locks you have pictured on the right are not Thompson locks. They appear to be BMI Slide Free locks. You may want to look into the newer Kieper locks the Snare Shop is making. They are made of a heavier cast material. I've never tried to saw them or use them as a break away so rigged, but they are a heavier built lock.

Thanks for the comments Rally. A little back ground, not long after Thad and Nancy bought out Raymond Thompson a few years ago, I ordered 300 hundred 3/32 snares from them. When they came in I noticed the locks were different than what I had gotten from RT in the past. I've always cut the locks as a breakaway system and had not had any issues with the old style Thompson snares, but the first year I used the newer ones I lost five wolves that winter due to them pulling out the breakaway. The locks that were failing were the ones most punched "off center".
I complained to Davis's about the poor quality of the locks and we emailed back and forth a lot that winter. They were not interested in trying to improve the locks. I did talk them into selling me 300 locks for 7/64th cable. They don't like to sell parts and pieces but in this situation they made an exception. I thought if I put the bigger 7/64 locks on the 3/32 cable that might end the problem of losing wolves, but when I got the locks in and started studying them it was obvious they were no stronger structurally than the 3/32 locks, and they were plagued by the same problem of being punched off-center.

There was nothing to be gained by cutting the 3/32 locks off and putting on the 7/64 locks. I was tired messing with it and tossed the bags of locks in a drawer and gave up on it for a long time. I went ahead using the 3/32 snares and accepting the lose's. In the meantime I have gradually drifted over to using footholds more than snares. I did go through the 7/64 locks this fall and picked out the best 36 locks out of the 300. I hacksawed them and hammered them down, then heated them up and tempered them in oil, and made up three dozen 3/32 snares that I feel confident in setting. But shoot, I only caught three this winter, 2 in #9's and one in a coyote snare. So no field testing yet.

Rally, the locks in the picture most definitely are Thompson locks. BMI's do look very similar to Thompson locks, but if you look at a BMI the ends of the lock are cut square whereas the Thompson's are rounded some what. These are BMI. Compare with the Thompson locks pictured above.


As mentioned above in my response to Drasselt I am interested in trying out the Kieper locks. I'll be ordering some for next winter. If the steel in them is tempered too hard to hacksaw I may have to try using "s" hooks as a BAD.

Spek,
I can't tell from the picture. It's tough to get a good picture without something for scale. I can't find any of my Thompson locks to compare to my BMI's. I've several buckets of my own parts and I'm not having any luck finding any.
Anyway here are a couple pictures of the old Kieper (far left all pictures) the new Kieper (center all pictures) and a 3/32" BMI Slide Free (far right all pictures). The newer Kieper is also listed as a 3/32/18" lock on all packaging.




Note the rounded corners on the BMI also. LOL

I was not talking about the corners on the BMI but rather the ends of the lock. Except for the slight rounding of the very corner, the ends of the BMI are cut square across. The ends of the Thompson locks are more rounded, sort of like the Kieper locks in your picture. To me it's not really hard to see in the photos, but rather stands out. Maybe I'm not describing what I'm talking about clear enough, but I don't know how else to describe it.

Thanks for the information on the Kieper locks. I will definitely be ordering some of them for a test run.

Spek,
You got it correct. I was looking at the body of the lock and the very corners, not the radius on the end of the lock. I was comparing what I had in my hand with your second picture of the BMI locks. I know the Kiepers will work well with 3/32 and 7/64" 1x19 cable. I've not tried to saw them for a B/A device.