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#6023381 - 10/11/17 06:47 PM History buffs, Worst general of WWII?
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
I just thought it might be a good topic to discuss. Perhaps enlighten me a bit. Who in your opinion was the worst general in WWII on any side??? I think I would start with de Gaulle. Although he was more of a prima donna at the end and did little through the war other than command the French resistance. A tie with him and possibly worse would be Monte, he just plain old sucked as a general. terrible tactics and a prima donna beyond compare. I believe he lost more battles than he won. I guess another contender would have to be MacArthur. I feel he was overrated as a leader. Your thoughts?
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#6023389 - 10/11/17 06:53 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Fisherman Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 558
Loc: northern New York
Mac Arthur may have been pompous but he was a brilliant general. Monte was pompous and a lousy general.


Edited by 330-Trapper (10/11/17 09:15 PM)
Edit Reason: Language

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#6023391 - 10/11/17 06:59 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Snare loop Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/19/17
Posts: 8
Loc: West Central Mn
Major General John P. Lucas at Anzio

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#6023394 - 10/11/17 07:02 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Tweed Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 1867
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Just about any Russian general that Stalin didn't kill....

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#6023402 - 10/11/17 07:07 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Tweed]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: Tweed
Just about any Russian general that Stalin didn't kill....
The reason for that is because Stalin killed all of the good ones. He was afraid of a coup.
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#6023404 - 10/11/17 07:08 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
OldCoon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 207
Loc: Pennsylvania
Major General Lloyd Fredendall of the US Army or any French or Italian general officer.
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I trap mink because I don't know any better.

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#6023412 - 10/11/17 07:12 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Well, maybe we should include a reason? People are coming up with generals I've never heard of. Not that I'm an expert or anything. But let's fill in the gaps.
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#6023442 - 10/11/17 07:29 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
kickingbird Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 445
Loc: southern Illinois
Monte was definitely a prima donna but blood and guts Patton had a touch of it too. I liked Ike.
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#6023450 - 10/11/17 07:35 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
52Carl Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 2552
Loc: Virginia
General der Infaterie Albert Burkhalter.
He could not keep Stalag 13 in order, nor marry off his widowed daughter.
He and Colonel Wilhelm Klink should have both been sent to the Russian Front.

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#6023451 - 10/11/17 07:35 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Monte was definitely a prima donna but blood and guts Patton had a touch of it too. I liked Ike.
All generals are prima donna's to an extent. However, Patton was a brilliant strategist. Not very PC even for the time but as far as a leader and a general, he was brilliant.
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#6023452 - 10/11/17 07:36 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
pass-thru Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2350
Loc: Va
So this pontificating is based on your vast experience in the military?


Never was in a combat zone, calls de Gaulle a do little prima donna. Finstarded.

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#6023453 - 10/11/17 07:37 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: 52Carl]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: 52Carl
General der Infaterie Albert Burkhalter.
He could not keep Stalag 13 in order, nor marry off his widowed daughter.
He and Colonel Wilhelm Klink should have both been sent to the Russian Front.
You watch way to much nick at nite! laugh
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Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6023454 - 10/11/17 07:37 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
KeithC Online   content
trapper

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2105
Loc: Champaign County, Ohio.
The German generals, who would not stand up to Hitler, who let him start a war on multiple fronts.

Keith

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#6023464 - 10/11/17 07:41 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Snare loop]
corky Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 2710
Loc: Three Lakes,WI 66
Originally Posted By: Snare loop
Major General John P. Lucas at Anzio


Certainly would have got my dad's vote. He was an original Darby's Ranger bazookaman that got shot twice at Anzio. Met my mom, an army nurse, on the hospital ship.
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#6023474 - 10/11/17 07:46 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1047
Loc: Wisconsin
Field Marshall Gerd Von Rundstedt.Was so convinced we were going to invade France at Pas De Calais, he would not move troops even after we landed at Normandy. He thought it was a diversion. Wouldn't listen to Rommel.
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#6023479 - 10/11/17 07:49 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Todd Lund]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: Todd Lund
Field Marshall Gerd Von Rundstedt.Was so convinced we were going to invade France at Pas De Calais, he would not move troops even after we landed at Normandy. He thought it was a diversion. Wouldn't listen to Rommel.
That's a good one! However, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't he decide to move troops and tanks but needed Hitler's approval and he wouldn't give it?
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Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6023511 - 10/11/17 08:19 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
USMC47 Offline


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 6947
Loc: California
I completely disagree with the statement that all, or even most, generals are prima donnas. I've met, worked with, and fought with dozens of them.
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#6023514 - 10/11/17 08:21 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: USMC47]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: USMC47
I completely disagree with the statement that all, or even most, generals are prima donnas. I've met, worked with, and fought with dozens of them.
Noted
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#6023524 - 10/11/17 08:34 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1047
Loc: Wisconsin
True Finster except Hitler was asleep when the invasion began and did not want to be disturbed. Alfred Jodl, Hitler's chief of staff said so. I suppose we could add Jodl to the list. Actually not moving the entire 15th Army out of LeHarve/Calais area bought valuable time for the Allies. That was Von Runsdedts call.
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#6023556 - 10/11/17 08:53 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Todd Lund]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: Todd Lund
True Finster except Hitler was asleep when the invasion began and did not want to be disturbed. Alfred Jodl, Hitler's chief of staff said so. I suppose we could add Jodl to the list. Actually not moving the entire 15th Army out of LeHarve/Calais area bought valuable time for the Allies. That was Von Runsdedts call.
I know there was an entire tank division that they wouldn't move to the front either. Was that under Von Runsdedt's command also? Or was that an SS division? I had thought that they were Southeast of the Beachheads, though I may be wrong.
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#6023576 - 10/11/17 09:13 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1047
Loc: Wisconsin
It was the 2nd SS panzer division. The 21st Panzer and Panzer Lehr divisions we're closer to the Normandy coast and could have really raised you know what early in the invasion.They were regular Wehrmacht.Thank god Rommel was in Germany on June 6 for his wife's birthday. I think he would have jumped in the staff car, disobeyed everyone, and counter attacked.
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#6023585 - 10/11/17 09:17 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Art S Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 644
Loc: Pa
Don't really think they "wouldn't" move those tanks,
more they couldn't,we had air superiority by then.
Victors write the history books,how about Lt.Gen.Arthur Percival,
the fall of "The Gibraltar of the east" Singapore,
where 30,000 Japanese captured a fortified city with 85,000 British soldiers in it.
The Japanese commander set up a siege and "showed" his troops and "re-showed" them
again in different clothes.Percival thought he was against more people,
so he surrendered.


Edited by Art S (10/11/17 09:26 PM)

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#6023607 - 10/11/17 09:34 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Kyt Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 934
Loc: Kentucky
Whoever the Brit general was that surrendered I believe Singapore to the Japanese without putting up much of a fight.

I don't share the opinion that Monte was a bad general. He was largely responsible for beating Rommel in Africa. He was methodical and overly cautious but he got the job done. His methods kept lots of British soldiers from being buried in a foreign country. If Prima donna was a disqualifier Patton wouldn't make honorable mention.

Early on MacArthur made some monumental blunders that would have ended his career if there had been any suitable substitute. In the end he made up for the mistakes. He evidently came to think he owned the army in the Philipines and nobody could tell him what to do. That thinking got him fired in Korea.

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#6023682 - 10/11/17 10:44 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
bob56 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1162
Loc: NW Missouri
If Truman had left MacArthur alone, we might not have the problems of today with North Korea?
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- Thomas Jefferson


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#6023700 - 10/11/17 11:30 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Fisherman]
walleyed Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/21/10
Posts: 3399
Loc: Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
Originally Posted By: Fisherman
Mac Arthur may have been pompous but he was a brilliant general. Monte was pompous and a lousy general.


No Arguement On Montgomery being an Imbecile. One Just Need Study The Debacle that was Operation Market Garden to drive home that point

But MacArthur Was A Bumbling, Incompetent, Insubordinate Arse Hurl.

Definitely The Worst All Time General Whose Chronic Incompetence Led Many, Many Thousands of His Soldiers To Their Death In Phillipines, During The Greater South-Western Pacific Campaign, and In North Korea.

He Skated From Corregidor in A P.T. Boat Leaving General Jonathan Wainwright holding The Bag, and Condemned Thousands Of American & Phillipino Troops to Die During The Baatan Death March.

Thank God The Naval Admirals, and Marine Corps Generals Were In Charge of Most Of The Pacific War Rather Than McArthur, Or The U.S. and Austrailian Casualties Would Have Easily Surpassed The Million Mark.

w
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#6023706 - 10/12/17 12:00 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1047
Loc: Wisconsin
Didn't General Percival have all of his big artillery pointed out to the ocean because he didn't think the Japs could move thru the jungle?
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#6023784 - 10/12/17 06:13 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
OhioBoy Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 1847
Loc: Ohio
I doubt this German General was loved back at headquarters after this.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/30/wwi...de-my-body.html

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#6023790 - 10/12/17 06:19 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Todd Lund]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: Todd Lund
Didn't General Percival have all of his big artillery pointed out to the ocean because he didn't think the Japs could move thru the jungle?
While I agree that he was not much of a leader, I do think that he was under supplied and he did have very green troops from what I have read. His plight is easy to Monday morning quarterback but being there in that situation with the troops and supplies he had, while I don't think he gets a pass, I do think that it can be understood. Another thing to think about here is that Percival was a "Gentleman soldier". Unfortunately for his men, I believe that he thought that his men would be treated with respect and as equals by the Japanese. I do not believe he knew that the Japanese considered surrender as the act of a coward. This is just guesswork on my part but it does seem to make sense and explain some actions. Percival's plight has many dynamics to it.
_________________________
Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6023896 - 10/12/17 08:29 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
DaYooper14 Online   content
trapper

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 409
Loc: North Carolina
Clark - for his laziness when invading Italy, sending in under-strength division to get wiped out @ Monte Cassino & rather than breaking out @ Anzio and running them down, headed towards worthless Rome

Kulik - This hombre so messed w/ pre-war preparations and his love of horse that the t-34 was under-gunned as a result of his actions. He was also the commander of the leningrad front at the start

Gamelin - Infamous believer of the Maginot Line - oh it'll hold em out, I think I'll move all my troops to Belgium.
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#6023972 - 10/12/17 09:34 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: DaYooper14]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: DaYooper14
Gamelin - Infamous believer of the Maginot Line - oh it'll hold em out, I think I'll move all my troops to Belgium.



Well, it did hold them. It held Germans, there ammo and other supplies quiet comfortably and securely for awhile after they flew over it and drove around it! grin


Edited by Finster (10/12/17 09:34 AM)
_________________________
Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6023996 - 10/12/17 10:03 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: bob56]
Tweed Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 1867
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: bob56
If Truman had left MacArthur alone, we might not have the problems of today with North Korea?


Agreed!

There would be no North Korea...just a United Korean Democratic People's Republic.

Mac was the reason the Chinese flooded in.

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#6024010 - 10/12/17 10:22 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Tweed]
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 8042
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Tweed
Just about any Russian general that Stalin didn't kill....

General Zhukov was credited by General Eisenhower as being a superb general.

The war in Europe ended with victory and nobody could have done that better than Marshal Zhukov – we owed him that credit. He is a modest person, and so we can't undervalue his position in our mind. When we can come back to our Motherland, there must be another type of Order in Russia, an Order named after Zhukov, which is awarded to everybody who can learn the bravery, the far vision, and the decisiveness of this soldier.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#6024016 - 10/12/17 10:25 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 8042
Loc: MN
Also zhukov was mostly responsible for leading 20 million commies to their death, for that we owe him our gratitude

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#6024017 - 10/12/17 10:26 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Pressure9pa Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 151
Loc: Southern Indiana
British Field Marshall Claude Auchinleck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Auchinleck

Bungled the operation in North Africa and made for a revolving door of subordinate officers.

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#6024040 - 10/12/17 10:43 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: FlyinFinn]
Tweed Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 1867
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: FlyinFinn
Also zhukov was mostly responsible for leading 20 million commies to their death, for that we owe him our gratitude


The politicians we're commies...those were 20 million men.

I don't know much about Zhukov but my thoughts are that the only reason the Nazis didn't role all the way to Novosibirsk is because there were more Russian bodies than there were Nazi bullets.

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#6024049 - 10/12/17 10:46 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 8042
Loc: MN
Potato PoTato, a commie is as a commie does.

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#6024085 - 10/12/17 11:15 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Trapper7 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 4848
Loc: MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Finster, you seem to be somewhat of a history buff. Do you ever watch the TV show Mysteries at the Museum? I never miss it, it's so interesting like how the most insignificant thing can make or change history.
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#6024090 - 10/12/17 11:18 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Trapper7]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: Trapper7
Finster, you seem to be somewhat of a history buff. Do you ever watch the TV show Mysteries at the Museum? I never miss it, it's so interesting like how the most insignificant thing can make or change history.
Yes, the wife and I watch it when we come across it.
_________________________
Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6024091 - 10/12/17 11:21 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Trapper7 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 4848
Loc: MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
It's on every Thursday night at 8:00PM here, 9:00PM your time.
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#6024343 - 10/12/17 05:54 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
BigBob Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 13516
Loc: St. Louis Co, Mo
Originally Posted By: Finster
Originally Posted By: Todd Lund
Field Marshall Gerd Von Rundstedt.Was so convinced we were going to invade France at Pas De Calais, he would not move troops even after we landed at Normandy. He thought it was a diversion. Wouldn't listen to Rommel.
That's a good one! However, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't he decide to move troops and tanks but needed Hitler's approval and he wouldn't give it?

No, They were too afraid to wake the crazy man up to ask!
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#6024362 - 10/12/17 06:29 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
kickingbird Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 445
Loc: southern Illinois
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!


Edited by kickingbird (10/12/17 06:30 PM)
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#6024364 - 10/12/17 06:35 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
KeithC Online   content
trapper

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2105
Loc: Champaign County, Ohio.
Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!


Our military, for the most part, voted for and support President Donald Trump. Very few liberals care enough to serve in the military in the United States. Your side will do very poorly if the United States ever has a military coup.

Keith

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#6024368 - 10/12/17 06:43 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!
Why do the libtards on here feel the need to troll every single thread? Why not go back to PETA where you belong?


Edited by Finster (10/12/17 06:45 PM)
_________________________
Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6024375 - 10/12/17 06:46 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: BigBob]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: BigBob

No, They were too afraid to wake the crazy man up to ask!
Yes, I do believe that is correct.
_________________________
Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6024387 - 10/12/17 06:59 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
rszwieg Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 337
Loc: Sugar Island, WI
Rommel is over rated as a general. Germanylost North Africa sooner because of him.
He was ordered to hold the Brits at Tobruk not attack. He couldn't get needed supplies because Operation Barbarrosa was under way.
He was tactically brilliant but didn't understand logistics. His staff feared him and wouldn't question his decisions. He wasn't as nice as James Mason portayed him.

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#6024405 - 10/12/17 07:32 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
52Carl Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 2552
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!

Give me one instance of "out of control" behavior and the "leader' to which you refer.
And make it snappy before the crickets get horse...

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#6024411 - 10/12/17 07:36 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: 52Carl]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 7180
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: 52Carl
Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!

Give me one instance of "out of control" behavior and the "leader' to which you refer.
And make it snappy before the crickets get horse...
Don't feed the trolls, he ain't worth the time. He's just trying to get the thread kicked or start a bunch of crap.


Edited by Finster (10/12/17 07:38 PM)
_________________________
Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6024420 - 10/12/17 07:56 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
kickingbird Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 445
Loc: southern Illinois
Originally Posted By: Finster
Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!
Why do the libtards on here feel the need to troll every single thread? Why not go back to PETA where you belong?


you give them more fodder each post than they can come up with
That is the problem finkster you always assume you are the moral authority. As far as peta is concerned
you give them more fodder each post than they can come up with. Just have the backbone to admit what is happening right now in history.


Edited by kickingbird (10/12/17 07:57 PM)
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#6024424 - 10/12/17 07:57 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
Finster Offline
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Originally Posted By: kickingbird


you give them more fodder each post than they can come up with
That is the problem finkster you always assume you are the moral authority. As far as peta is concerned
you give them more fodder each post than they can come up with. Just have the backbone to admit what is happening right now in history.
Good grief, you are an idiot.
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#6024437 - 10/12/17 08:06 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
kickingbird Offline
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You sound just like the the man you adore , You should run for office! Just reach down and admit what you know! By the way i have an opinion of you also but will leave it at that,
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#6024440 - 10/12/17 08:12 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
Finster Offline
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Originally Posted By: kickingbird
You sound just like the the man you adore , You should run for office! Just reach down and admit what you know! By the way i have an opinion of you also but will leave it at that,
Go back to PETA where you fit in and are wanted.
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#6024450 - 10/12/17 08:23 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
kickingbird Offline
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Unfounded name calling, how old are you? Probably supported more sportsman causes and rights than you have . Do you even hunt or trap? Seems you spend a Lot of time trying to convince people of your minority ideas. If you would spend more time trying helping people rather than inciting people,would not have to dispute your opinion you try to state as fact. I do not try to high jack anyone's posts but yours are all like a bad tv rerun.
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#6024465 - 10/12/17 08:40 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: DaYooper14]
Macthediver Offline
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Registered: 12/25/06
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Originally Posted By: DaYooper14
Clark - for his laziness when invading Italy, sending in under-strength division to get wiped out @ Monte Cassino & rather than breaking out @ Anzio and running them down, headed towards worthless Rome

Kulik - This hombre so messed w/ pre-war preparations and his love of horse that the t-34 was under-gunned as a result of his actions. He was also the commander of the leningrad front at the start

Gamelin - Infamous believer of the Maginot Line - oh it'll hold em out, I think I'll move all my troops to Belgium.





DaYooper14
My wifes great uncle might agree Clark wasn't a good general. He was one of I believe only 19 guys left from the wiped out division you spoke
of. They snuck back threw enemies lines after dark and some how got out alive. He is still alive but I think in a nursing home now. I heard once during a show on history channel. That the invasion failed because Clark took to long getting ready to move after good intel on German troop strength. Good intel had just some reserve units there in that area, the Germans moved crack troops into it sometime after. They said Clark dilly dallied just didn't move quick enough on good the intel..Could have been whole different deal.

Mac


Edited by Macthediver (10/12/17 08:40 PM)
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#6024471 - 10/12/17 08:45 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: DaYooper14]
Finster Offline
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Registered: 03/13/13
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Originally Posted By: DaYooper14
Kulik - This hombre so messed w/ pre-war preparations and his love of horse that the t-34 was under-gunned as a result of his actions. He was also the commander of the leningrad front at the start



I've never heard this before. How so? I mean to say, how did that come about?
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#6024487 - 10/12/17 09:00 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
warrior Offline
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Registered: 01/28/07
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Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!


Obviously you have never served. One notable fact of history is the American military's amazing obedience to its civilian masters. It is ingrained in our martial culture to avoid any hint of the kind of disrespect of the elected leadership.

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#6024499 - 10/12/17 09:13 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Finster Offline
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DaYooper, I'm not seeing this under gunned tank thing. From what I understood, the T-34 tank was one of the best of the war and one of the best ever built, obviously considering the era. This is from Wiki so take it with a grain of salt but this is what is printed about it:

The T-34 is a Soviet medium tank that had a profound and lasting effect on the field of tank design. At its introduction, the T-34 possessed an unprecedented combination of firepower, mobility, protection and ruggedness. Its 76.2 mm (3 in) high-velocity tank gun provided a substantial increase in firepower over any of its contemporaries;[5] its well-sloped armour was difficult to penetrate by most contemporary anti-tank weapons. When first encountered in 1941, the German tank general von Kleist called it "the finest tank in the world"[6] and Heinz Guderian affirmed the T-34's "vast superiority" over existing German armour of the period.[7][8] Although its armour and armament were surpassed later in the war, it has often been credited as the most effective, efficient and influential tank design of the Second World War.[9]
The T-34 was the mainstay of Soviet armoured forces throughout the Second World War. Its design allowed it to be continuously refined to meet the constantly evolving needs of the Eastern Front: as the war went on it became more capable, but also quicker and cheaper to produce. Soviet industry would eventually produce over 80,000 T-34s of all variants, allowing steadily greater numbers to be fielded as the war progressed despite the loss of thousands in combat against the German Wehrmacht.[10] Replacing many light and medium tanks in Red Army service, it was the most-produced tank of the war, as well as the second most produced tank of all time (after its successor, the T-54/55 series).[11] Its development led directly to the T-54 and T-55 series of tanks, which in turn evolved into the later T-62, T-72, and T-90 that form the armoured mainstay of many modern armies. T-34 variants were widely exported after World War II, and, as of 2017, the tank remains in limited frontline service in many developing countries.


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34
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#6024517 - 10/12/17 09:39 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Art S Offline
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Registered: 05/22/11
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The T-34 out gunned all but a few tanks in WW2,
if anything you could say they weren't ready at the beginning because
of Kulik, but considering the Russians helped Germany by letting them design and build
their tanks in Russia, they couldn't in Germany because of The Versailles Treaty,
the Russians knew what was coming,so they made theirs better,
they had the T-34's ,Stalin held them back til Germany got over extended and he pounced,
he sacrificed a lot of people/soldiers with that strategy (RUTHLESS)but he won.


Edited by Art S (10/12/17 09:39 PM)

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#6024530 - 10/12/17 09:58 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
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Bigbob you are mixing up the panzers in the rear controlled by Hitler with the coastal infantry that could have been pulled out and sent west to flank Normandy.V. Runstedt controlled them.
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#6024533 - 10/12/17 10:08 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
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Rommel was a military genious way ahead of his time. He lost North Africa because the needed petrol and supplies were sunk on their way to him by British planes on Malta and submarines. Ultra intercept provided the intelligence. Hitler did not see the value if the Suez Canal. Rommel almost took it with two battered Panzer divisions and a light division and an Italian division. He was outnumbered almost 7 to 1. Poor resources and superb leadership. Kinda reminds me of Bobby Lee.
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#6024535 - 10/12/17 10:11 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: kickingbird]
K52 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/11
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Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: kickingbird
Rommel's path thru history may be repeated again in United States of America 2017. Not assassination plot but rebellion against an out of control leader! Go patriotic generals!


What an idiot. You taking Addicted Anglers place now?

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#6024541 - 10/12/17 10:18 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
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Registered: 12/24/06
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I agree on the T 34. It was easy to produce and maintain. On the other hand, if you look at our modern XM1 tank it has a striking resemblence to the king tiger.
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#6024542 - 10/12/17 10:19 PM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Todd Lund Offline
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Registered: 12/24/06
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I agree on the T 34. It was easy to produce and maintain. On the other hand, if you look at our modern XM1 tank it has a striking resemblence to the german king tiger.
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#6024624 - 10/13/17 05:58 AM Re: History buffs, Worst general of WWII? [Re: Finster]
Finster Offline
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Here's one I haven't seen posted yet. Soviet General Dmitry Pavlov. He managed to get 500,000 troops killed because of his incompetence. Wow, when you start looking at the numbers, the Russians really took a beating. I knew they lost millions in the war but when you start really looking at the numbers, it's almost unbelievable. Here's the story in short:

Pavlov was commander of the Soviet Western Front when the Germans invaded in June 1941. He had 45 divisions under his overall command, most of them untrained conscripts. In the shocking first days of the battle, Pavlov lost contact with his forward units, then ordered his men to carry out Stalin's orders and attack in all directions.

Never a true believer in the role of tanks in warfare, Pavlov squandered his armor in wave after wave of frontal assaults against dug-in German guns. The critical cities of Minsk and Bialystock were both captured in gigantic cauldron battles, and of the 650,000 men under Pavlov's command, less than 150,000 survived. Pavlov and a dozen other lesser generals were executed soon after.
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