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#6049187 - 11/08/17 06:21 PM Critique this please.
DezertTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 461
Loc: Desert Southwest-CA
I'm on a job for a very sick yote. Law and local ordinances state I can only cage trap. Residential area. Trap has been backed into a grouping of native shrubs where he has been seen resting underneath in the afternoons.

Used bacon bait beneath (the recipe is on this site someplace) yote urine, floor is perfectly prepped, bait hanging/wired from inside the top of the trap, he'd have to step on the plate to get to it. What else can I do to convince this animal to enter? It's been only 18 hours, but starving as he is, I'd have thought he'd have entered by now. This has worked well for me in the past, but it's not working yet for this guy. Thanks




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#6049214 - 11/08/17 06:38 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
BigBob Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 13472
Loc: St. Louis Co, Mo
PM sent
_________________________
Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!

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#6049267 - 11/08/17 07:22 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
Vinke Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5166
Loc: WA
Starving or mange?
My guess is it wil die before you cage it
_________________________
Living life like a dog with a stick



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#6049284 - 11/08/17 07:35 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
DezertTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 461
Loc: Desert Southwest-CA
Severe mange Vinke...and now starving as a result. Horrible for any animal to suffer like this. People and their effing rat and squirrel poisons cause this. Rarely see it in remote desert, they're found near residential or agricultural areas around these parts. I've caged plenty, but this guy isn't going for what normally works, and I was hoping someone might have an idea I hadn't thought of.

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#6049343 - 11/08/17 08:23 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
Vinke Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5166
Loc: WA
Mange is ectoparasitic and has nothing to do with secondary ingestion.....
_________________________
Living life like a dog with a stick



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#6049366 - 11/08/17 08:45 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: Vinke]
DezertTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 461
Loc: Desert Southwest-CA
Originally Posted By: Vinke
Mange is ectoparasitic and has nothing to do with secondary ingestion.....




Rodenticides affect the immune systems of both canids and felines. Once poisoned rodents are ingested, the immune system is affected, and mange rears its ugly head. Some species of mange are carried naturally, and a healthy immune system keeps it in check, no different than the bacteria on our own skin.

We're seeing rodenticide induced mange due to immune system breakdown in kit foxes, bobcats, mountain lions, yotes, etc. all over this part of the country, in addition to the thousands that bleed out. (Including all raptors, carrion species, etc.)


Here's some reference information for you Vinke. You might want to read up.

Anticoagulant exposure and notoedric mange in bobcats and mountain lions in urban Southern California
https://ucdavis.pure.elsevier.com/en/pub...ats-and-mountai

LA Mountain Lion A Poster Cat For California's Rat Poison Problem
https://www.npr.org/2014/06/21/323970068...-poison-problem

Anticoagulant Rodenticides: Secondary Poisoning of Wildlife in California
http://caforestpestcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/stella-Mcmillin.pdf


I posted asking for possible ideas to get a sick yote trapped. This yote has severe mange because he's been eating poisoned ground squirrels near a residential area.

Do you have anything to offer?


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#6049390 - 11/08/17 09:15 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
Vinke Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5166
Loc: WA
Yes

Found a better article but it is also on cats, I have never read a thesis on canines
_________________________
Living life like a dog with a stick



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#6051866 - 11/11/17 06:47 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
Budfish Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 468
Loc: Des Allemands, Louisiana
I think there is a possibility that yote may have passed away already or will soon. My be too sick to want to eat.

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#6052079 - 11/11/17 09:40 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
bhugo Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 1174
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Just put it down.
_________________________
Member MTPCA and NTA

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#6052746 - 11/12/17 05:32 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
Kurt in Va Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Virginia
Most trappers don't think you can trap coyote in cages in any where close to a timely matter, you say you have so you have more experience then 99 % in doing it so probably no help here for you on this subject. The last study I read it was more then 1000 trapping days for 17 coyotes and most were sick or pups. One guy said he used a mouse squeaker on a auto loop in back of cage, that's all I can give you.
I was thinking you could ask the trappers from CO. or Wash. they are both cage only states.



Edited by Kurt in Va (11/13/17 08:35 AM)

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#6054009 - 11/14/17 05:24 AM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
DezertTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 461
Loc: Desert Southwest-CA
He was trapped this past weekend.

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#6054092 - 11/14/17 07:37 AM Re: Critique this please. [Re: Kurt in Va]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1056
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Most trappers don't think you can trap coyote in cages in any where close to a timely matter, you say you have so you have more experience then 99 % in doing it so probably no help here for you on this subject. The last study I read it was more then 1000 trapping days for 17 coyotes and most were sick or pups. One guy said he used a mouse squeaker on a auto loop in back of cage, that's all I can give you.
I was thinking you could ask the trappers from CO. or Wash. they are both cage only states.


All of the studies I have seen have none of the latest trap designs. NONE. The studies are all old and outdated. The designs are changing and improving faster than the years that go by. It is expensive to test. There is so much that goes into it.

Even if the best design for a region were to exist, how it best may be used in the regions tested would take some time. Many years.

Even for one to say that there will be little improvement in the future is in my opinion an uninformed guess. Trap function for coyotes will improve with time.
_________________________
http://www.advancedtrap.com

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#6054447 - 11/14/17 03:36 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: Kirk De]
DezertTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 461
Loc: Desert Southwest-CA
Originally Posted By: Kirk De
Quote:
Most trappers don't think you can trap coyote in cages in any where close to a timely matter, you say you have so you have more experience then 99 % in doing it so probably no help here for you on this subject. The last study I read it was more then 1000 trapping days for 17 coyotes and most were sick or pups. One guy said he used a mouse squeaker on a auto loop in back of cage, that's all I can give you.
I was thinking you could ask the trappers from CO. or Wash. they are both cage only states.


All of the studies I have seen have none of the latest trap designs. NONE. The studies are all old and outdated. The designs are changing and improving faster than the years that go by. It is expensive to test. There is so much that goes into it.

Even if the best design for a region were to exist, how it best may be used in the regions tested would take some time. Many years.

Even for one to say that there will be little improvement in the future is in my opinion an uninformed guess. Trap function for coyotes will improve with time.



"For a region." Bingo!
Many folks think a yote is just a yote and nothing could be further from the truth. There are 19 known subspecies, each with it's own specific "quirks," to to speak, and there are variations in diet, etc. even within the same subspecies. The hardest thing is getting inside of their heads...which is a new game every time I go through this. But I like a good challenge, so that's OK. Trap placement and prep is everything...I'll spent 2-3 hours just getting a trap completely set up. Illness is also a HUGE factor. With scabies, their vision eventually ends up affected, sometimes severely, so setting traps using sight based baits/lures can be a total waste of time. For others, it may work well. I think I spend more time thinking about what's going on in an animal's brain than probably anything else, especially where yotes are concerned. If I were to try to cage trap back east---I might as well be on Mars. :-)

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#6055577 - 11/15/17 07:36 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
Baxter Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 7
Loc: California
Why couldn't you have used collorum?
_________________________
Aaron


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#6056663 - 11/16/17 09:16 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
DezertTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 461
Loc: Desert Southwest-CA
Hi Aaron

More feral/stray dogs in that area than I can count. If they end up cage trapped, I can just call animal control to come pick them up-and they do. Too many dogs in these parts killing livestock.

If a yote that sick ends up on a collorum with that many feral dogs around, feral dogs would have torn it apart, and while some folks don't care, I do. It's just not acceptable to me to allow that to happen. If he's cage trapped, he's protected until removed by me.

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#6057217 - 11/17/17 04:13 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
Baxter Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 7
Loc: California
Kind of understand. Makes sense .
_________________________
Aaron


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#6057494 - 11/17/17 08:37 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
52Carl Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 2530
Loc: Virginia
DezertTrapper, you are special (in a good way). I understand fully the circumstances which you must endure in order to accomplish what the rest of us outside of California take for granted. All of us do not want animals to suffer the misery of mange, yet those geniuses in charge of California laws are directly causing coyotes like this one to suffer days/weeks/months needlessly.

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#6057598 - 11/17/17 10:24 PM Re: Critique this please. [Re: DezertTrapper]
DezertTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 461
Loc: Desert Southwest-CA
Thanks for that! I'm not a bleeding heart by any means, but I believe in people helping critters when they can. Yes, I am severely limited in what I can do legally here, so I have to think outside the box-a lot. Sometimes the frustration is more than I care to admit. It kinda feels like I have a set of handcuffs on, the house is on fire and I can't grab a hose.

And yeah, our "geniuses" up there in their ivory towers-who have never once had to deal with (nor care to deal with) a sick animal, an overpopulation of animals, etc. are calling all the shots. Example: mountain lion issues, they're becoming far too frequent. If hunting them down WITH DOGS was allowed, even just to scare them badly enough that they learn to steer clear of populated areas? What does that hurt? Nothing! But oh...it's SO cruel to do such a thing to a mountain lion...they're fully protected! (Smacks forehead!)

If we had enough game wardens, they could actually come help dispatch some of these poor things. I do feel awful for them. I am a retired veterinary technician, and I've seen more than my share of dogs with scabies (mange) so I've seen up close and personal how terribly they suffer. I can think of no reason an animal should have to suffer in such a way-and often it is human caused to begin with. 25 years ago? It was rare to see such a thing in this area, and now? I've literally lost count of the calls I've received just this year. This oh so "environmentally responsible" state allows the sale of rodenticides by the megatons-and it's poisoning everything. Wildlife needing help don't get it, especially in more rural areas like mine-and we "can't afford" more game wardens, but there is millions of dollars available to provide attorneys for illegals? If that isn't a contradiction in terms, I don't know what is. If it takes me a week to trap a sick yote so it can be humanely dispatched, I'll do it, because I know if left, it'll suffer for months (and already has) and it'll die an excruciating death. Eventually, so will all of the others that come into contact with it. (Think dens) Nothing about that is OK with me.

I've got 2 collarums and one cage trap set currently, on my own dime, and I'm working on a program to get more equipment, and perhaps train a few sharp people to volunteer in the future. Call me nuts, but its how I sleep at night. With many of our nuisance critters going into hibernation, Work is slowed down a bit and I have more time, so why not? Keeps me out of trouble, keeps my skills sharp, and keeps the wheels turning in my head.

If God took this state, turned it upside down and shook it hard enough, you'd be able hear the corruption splattering as it hits the ground----in Vermont.

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