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#6053176 - 11/13/17 06:56 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
2labs Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 845
Loc: Western N Y
Yes it seems pretty dumb, but that is NY. I live just north of the boundaries, and won't be going after one. The area I live in has alot of fishers but not a season here and I am just 12 miles from the boundaries of the area you can trap them. I also feel they are killing the Turkey's down this way.

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#6053209 - 11/13/17 07:26 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: pcr2]
Ronaround Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 1029
Loc: N.E.Ohio
Originally Posted By: pcr2
wait till you have to release one and he's sitting there wagging that pretty black bushy tail and making the cutest little sounds then as you take a step towards them and they smile and you think he stole his teeth from a doberman.just sayin grin


great analogy my friend!!

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#6053279 - 11/13/17 08:47 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
whartonrattrappe Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 140
Loc: NY
Yes the season was only SIX days but, it's a chance to hone your skills in fair weather. Which we get in NYS sometimes for the month of November. The ones I caught in the expansion zone the last week in October didn't look any less prime than the ones caught in the Adirondacks this weekend.

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#6053308 - 11/13/17 09:25 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Fisherman Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 544
Loc: northern New York
With all of their bragging about fisher in the southern tier, the truth is that NYS DEC has been a miserable failure when it comes to fisher management. They have established this ridiculous season in western NY because they are so afraid someone might catch and keep a fisher during the canine and coon season, so they opened it the same as when those seasons open. My question is, are there enough fisher there to warrant an open season or not? From all observations there certainly are. To justify their actions they go to terms such as "trophy" and opportunity" and completely ignore fur quality. Truth is that a later season in late December, such as in Pennsylvania, would provide those same things along with quality furs. To provide merely for "sport" and "Trophies" plays right into the arguments of the anti trappers.
I suspect that a lot of this is to prevent a repeat OF the total failure to protect the core Adironack population! Say what you will, but someone was asleep at the switch,too busy radio collaring and playing with a species that is growing and expanding their range; pine marten. Truth is that the biologist most responsible for the fisher management plan knows little to nothing about fisher and resorts to college text book theories, such as TPUE (Traps per Unit of Effort). Consequently NY trappers have to apply for a "Special Fisher permit, Must maintain a daily log, and must submit the head or jaw" The log is to justify that TPUE theory and trappers are threatened with no permit in the following year if they fail to turn in the log. Gestapo tactics?
The St. Lawrence county study of a few years ago demonstrated that a later fisher season had no adverse affect upon the population, yet DEC chooses to ignore this and instead chooses to twist results of the flawed Cornell surveys to their advantage. All of this seems to me is to justify their own jobs; think I'm crazy? Just look at what they've done with deer management!

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#6053342 - 11/13/17 10:05 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 8434
Loc: potter co. p.a.
i wish Sawmill Creek i believe it is from Catt.County would chime in.
_________________________
weasel-1
mink-
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reds-4
greys-1
beaver-
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#6053348 - 11/13/17 10:12 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Rat_Pack Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 1427
Loc: Central New York
Cuomo is at the helm. Poop rolls down hill. End of story.

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#6053383 - 11/13/17 11:17 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Fisherman]
wy.wolfer Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/24/14
Posts: 1264
Loc: Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted By: Fisherman
With all of their bragging about fisher in the southern tier, the truth is that NYS DEC has been a miserable failure when it comes to fisher management. They have established this ridiculous season in western NY because they are so afraid someone might catch and keep a fisher during the canine and coon season, so they opened it the same as when those seasons open. My question is, are there enough fisher there to warrant an open season or not? From all observations there certainly are. To justify their actions they go to terms such as "trophy" and opportunity" and completely ignore fur quality. Truth is that a later season in late December, such as in Pennsylvania, would provide those same things along with quality furs. To provide merely for "sport" and "Trophies" plays right into the arguments of the anti trappers.
I suspect that a lot of this is to prevent a repeat OF the total failure to protect the core Adironack population! Say what you will, but someone was asleep at the switch,too busy radio collaring and playing with a species that is growing and expanding their range; pine marten. Truth is that the biologist most responsible for the fisher management plan knows little to nothing about fisher and resorts to college text book theories, such as TPUE (Traps per Unit of Effort). Consequently NY trappers have to apply for a "Special Fisher permit, Must maintain a daily log, and must submit the head or jaw" The log is to justify that TPUE theory and trappers are threatened with no permit in the following year if they fail to turn in the log. Gestapo tactics?
The St. Lawrence county study of a few years ago demonstrated that a later fisher season had no adverse affect upon the population, yet DEC chooses to ignore this and instead chooses to twist results of the flawed Cornell surveys to their advantage. All of this seems to me is to justify their own jobs; think I'm crazy? Just look at what they've done with deer management!
Unfortunately, the state wildlife agency employees are often times almost totally ignorant of what "PRIME" fur is or means, or differences in grades and values. The concept of fully utilizing wildlife taken for the fur frequently escapes them and can be equated to killing a deer and only taking the backstraps and wasting the rest. I hope this message makes it's way to the right DEC people.

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#6053467 - 11/13/17 01:48 PM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Trapper7 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 4761
Loc: MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
A few years ago MN had their 5 day season and 3 of the 5 days we got heavy snow with wind that buried every set.
_________________________
So many people today feel rather than think.

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#6054188 - 11/14/17 09:27 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Fisherman]
whartonrattrappe Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 140
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Fisherman
With all of their bragging about fisher in the southern tier, the truth is that NYS DEC has been a miserable failure when it comes to fisher management. They have established this ridiculous season in western NY because they are so afraid someone might catch and keep a fisher during the canine and coon season, so they opened it the same as when those seasons open. My question is, are there enough fisher there to warrant an open season or not? From all observations there certainly are. To justify their actions they go to terms such as "trophy" and opportunity" and completely ignore fur quality. Truth is that a later season in late December, such as in Pennsylvania, would provide those same things along with quality furs. To provide merely for "sport" and "Trophies" plays right into the arguments of the anti trappers.
I suspect that a lot of this is to prevent a repeat OF the total failure to protect the core Adironack population! Say what you will, but someone was asleep at the switch,too busy radio collaring and playing with a species that is growing and expanding their range; pine marten. Truth is that the biologist most responsible for the fisher management plan knows little to nothing about fisher and resorts to college text book theories, such as TPUE (Traps per Unit of Effort). Consequently NY trappers have to apply for a "Special Fisher permit, Must maintain a daily log, and must submit the head or jaw" The log is to justify that TPUE theory and trappers are threatened with no permit in the following year if they fail to turn in the log. Gestapo tactics?
The St. Lawrence county study of a few years ago demonstrated that a later fisher season had no adverse affect upon the population, yet DEC chooses to ignore this and instead chooses to twist results of the flawed Cornell surveys to their advantage. All of this seems to me is to justify their own jobs; think I'm crazy? Just look at what they've done with deer management!


You show an awful lot of disdain for someone who at one time had an excellent working relationship with the DEC. What happened?

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#6054208 - 11/14/17 09:51 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Redknot Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 654
Loc: Tug Hill, NY
It's a three-year fisher population study being conducted by DEC...
_________________________
~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~

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#6054209 - 11/14/17 09:52 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Rick Otts Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Alpine NY
The Fisher and Bobcat permit programs are a real pain in the butt and the people at Cornell are worthless I believe they are friends with PETA.There are a lot more fisher around than people think the same with bobcats heck I seen a Cougar on Connect hill last year and plenty of bobcat sign but no season there.
_________________________
Rick Otts

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#6054210 - 11/14/17 09:56 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: walleyed]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2968
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: walleyed
Originally Posted By: RiversNorth13

Maybe don't have a season till they can give every trapper a tag . laugh


They've (NYS DEC) Already Done That In The New Western New York Fisher Season.

There Are No Bag Limits And A Trapper Can Take As Many As He Can During That Five Day Period.

During The Inaugural Fisher Season Last Year, Some Trappers Harvested Multiple Fisher.

NYS DEC Needs A Later Start To The Fisher Season and One Longer In Duration.

Starting It After Deer Season Would Be A Good Idea Also.

w


I disagree Walleye, after deer season there is to much snow in WNY. It's kinda like the old 10 day beaver season in Jan. they used to have. A trapper couldn't access have the places that needed trapping. I think the Fischer season, should be identical to coon season, with a bag limit. Let the individual decide when he wants to trap and avoid the heartache of incidental catches. If you filled your fisher bag limit, I guess you would have to decide to hang up the 220's on the coon line. But....... if you catch your fisher, completely unintentionally, and your under the bag limit.... you get to keep him.
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#6054212 - 11/14/17 09:57 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Redknot]
whartonrattrappe Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 140
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Redknot
It's a three-year fisher population study being conducted by DEC...


Huh...It's a season not a study. The study was completed before the season was enacted.

I for one hope the data compiled from the 6 day season will result in an even longer season after the three years.

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#6054213 - 11/14/17 10:02 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Rick Otts]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2968
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Rick Otts
The Fisher and Bobcat permit programs are a real pain in the butt and the people at Cornell are worthless I believe they are friends with PETA.There are a lot more fisher around than people think the same with bobcats heck I seen a Cougar on Connect hill last year and plenty of bobcat sign but no season there.


Please do tell about the Cougar!
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#6054214 - 11/14/17 10:04 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Redknot Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 654
Loc: Tug Hill, NY
Wharton, it is a population study to better determine the population dynamics of Fisher in the central and western portion of NYS. Edit: And portions of the ADKs

At the conclusion of this study, if it is determined that many of these locations have a sustainable Fisher population we would expect a season to be implemented that considers fur primness as well as season durations and perhaps even bag limits.


Edited by Redknot (11/14/17 10:13 AM)
_________________________
~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~

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#6054220 - 11/14/17 10:07 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2968
Loc: New York
So as all DEC studies go.......... will it end up like the otter study? The DEC shouldn't be able to start a study until they finish one.
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#6054222 - 11/14/17 10:11 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
Redknot Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 654
Loc: Tug Hill, NY
Oh no FFG, this is way ahead of the Otter study...We will be trapping Fisher in most of the areas that are open now (special or otherwise) long before DEC opens (or reopens) an otter area; as sad as that is...
_________________________
~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~

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#6054227 - 11/14/17 10:23 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Redknot]
whartonrattrappe Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 140
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Redknot
Wharton, it is a population study to better determine the population dynamics of Fisher in the central and western portion of NYS. Edit: And portions of the ADKs

At the conclusion of this study, if it is determined that many of these locations have a sustainable Fisher population we would expect a season to be implemented that considers fur primness as well as season durations and perhaps even bag limits.


I may be confused on this then. Correct me if I am wrong. As I understood it, the DEC/Cornell study took place the three years prior to the institution of the six day season. Then the six day season would be revisited after the three years are up.

I remember seeing the results of the study but have not been able to locate it at the present time.

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#6054236 - 11/14/17 10:38 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Canvasback2]
ponyboy Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 347
Loc: New York
No offense intended. But, Many years ago didn't a lot of the northern zone trappers get paid a good amount of money from the River Otter Restoration Project?
How much were they getting paid for each live, healthy, vet checked otter? They were all for it, which ended up putting all kinds of restrictions on the Southern Zone Trappers. We had no other option, but to adapt and work with the new regulations. But, some guys don't know what happened and may not have been trapping 20 years ago.

They were all about working with the DEC back then. The money was good and any new regulations on the Southern guys did not affect them.
The DEC will have their Projects and Studies until the end of time.

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#6054237 - 11/14/17 10:39 AM Re: 5 day Fisher season: What is the point??? [Re: Redknot]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2968
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Redknot
Oh no FFG, this is way ahead of the Otter study...We will be trapping Fisher in most of the areas that are open now (special or otherwise) long before DEC opens (or reopens) an otter area; as sad as that is...


But what if they couldn't start a study till they finished a study? My goodness they would either become way more efficient or stalemated
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