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Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: MnMan] #606358
02/29/08 09:53 PM
02/29/08 09:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 239
Westmoreland Co. Pa
T
toms114 Offline
trapper
toms114  Offline
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T

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 239
Westmoreland Co. Pa
high noon and dave are right. using tampons or pads really doues attrect the big buck. Its all in the estrigen. women and female animals produce estrigen during their cycle. The males smell it and know its breeding time. you have an excellent point Andy but using this stuff would propbably work only problem it has to be in the breeding season and you may attrect unwanted targets.

Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: MnMan] #606372
02/29/08 10:00 PM
02/29/08 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,077
kansas
P
possum5676 Offline
trapper
possum5676  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,077
kansas
its pretty much proven that in heat pheromones will not last in lures,of if they did the animal would have to visit in a couple hours time as they are gone fairly quickly even in the natural state, or as russ carman stated a buck would be a month behind the doe, instead of 20 minutes,one synthetic was tested a great deal on canines in the 70s 80s era by government research, supposed to be avauilable to the public from the usda upon request, is called synthetic monkey phereomone,thats probly what you are looking for and its been used and abused a fair amount already by various luremakers.


none
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: possum5676] #606379
02/29/08 10:08 PM
02/29/08 10:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,322
Oakland County, MI
R
RockyII Offline
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RockyII  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,322
Oakland County, MI
waiting.......


The more I catch, the poorer I get.
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: possum5676] #606401
02/29/08 10:18 PM
02/29/08 10:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 153
PA
M
medicine man Offline
trapper
medicine man  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 153
PA
 Originally Posted By: possum5676
its pretty much proven that in heat pheromones will not last in lures,of if they did the animal would have to visit in a couple hours time as they are gone fairly quickly even in the natural state, or as russ carman stated a buck would be a month behind the doe, instead of 20 minutes,one synthetic was tested a great deal on canines in the 70s 80s era by government research, supposed to be avauilable to the public from the usda upon request, is called synthetic monkey phereomone,thats probly what you are looking for and its been used and abused a fair amount already by various luremakers.



The female products would work fresh, but the pheromones are too volatile to bottle and store, they only last a few hours, still doesnt explain why some of those matrix lures are effective (from hersay, never have used them) but a lot of bowhunters think doe-in-heat scents are the biggest crock going, due to this reason. Personally, from a deers perspective, i have seen deer seem attractted to it, and others scared of it, but then again it could jsut be the curiousty factor

Another theory is the blood contains an elevated level of estrogens, and that is the attractant, but thats just some thoughts, no proof of anything

As for the "after products", the mucous contains a fair amount of estrogen and natural pheromones, and that might be why the are so attracted to it


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Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: medicine man] #606416
02/29/08 10:26 PM
02/29/08 10:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,957
Allen County, Indiana
G
Geezerman Offline
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Geezerman  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,957
Allen County, Indiana
Well I know a guy that used his wifes used sanitary womens hygine products to lure in whitetail bucks, he killed a lot of big bucks.

I wonder if I tell my wife this therory if she'd be willing to help me out at a few set locations, remote ones LOL

Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: medicine man] #606428
02/29/08 10:32 PM
02/29/08 10:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,135
SW Pa
B
Bob Jameson Offline
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Bob Jameson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,135
SW Pa
I use and have used blood by products for many years to enhance glandular products that we will just say have been man altered in a way that in essence mirrors the heat cycle very closely.

What happens when your dog, fox, coyote,cat comes into heat???Most all are aware of this condition I am sure.

Bodily fluids/excretions of many kinds will cause animal interests and peak their curosity.

Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: Bob Jameson] #606453
02/29/08 10:44 PM
02/29/08 10:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,720
Flatland TN
J
j lord Offline
trapper
j lord  Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,720
Flatland TN
some good serious points, when andy called me about this post i thought....oh no, this post wont last 2 minutes, lol.

thanks guys for the replies and all the other folks for keeping it clean, well as can be anyway, lol.


James Lord
-------------
www.jlordvideos.com
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: j lord] #606507
02/29/08 11:08 PM
02/29/08 11:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 607
missouri
bsnow Offline
trapper
bsnow  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 607
missouri
i know a guy that used "used" tampons during deer season and he swears by them, lol but its true


IMPROVISE
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: bsnow] #606552
02/29/08 11:27 PM
02/29/08 11:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,946
minnesota-USA
bearden49 Offline
trapper
bearden49  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,946
minnesota-USA

Andy, don't be gettin any ideas of putting a woman on each trap site............
but ur point is well put........does make you wander


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Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: bsnow] #606556
02/29/08 11:31 PM
02/29/08 11:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,061
MN
M
Mark K Offline
trapper
Mark K  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,061
MN
I have heard that too.

One of my friends uses some commercial product that apparently makes them do the cartoon stop skid when they walk into the scent trail.

Can't remember what it was.

Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: Mark K] #606629
03/01/08 12:20 AM
03/01/08 12:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,416
Iowa
S. Christenson Offline
trapper
S. Christenson  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,416
Iowa
I hear if you pee all over your set, yotes go crazy....


Just Barnesing it.
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #606692
03/01/08 01:15 AM
03/01/08 01:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,271
Idaho
Lynxcattrapper Offline
trapper
Lynxcattrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,271
Idaho
 Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
I think j lord is right, it's already in passion lures. But you are right, Andy. In grizzly country women are advised not to go camping at that time of the month.
WELL said...also the zoo is NOT OPTIMUM for places to be at that "time"... the monkeys go CRAZY and throw poop and such...(been there..SEEN THAT)
lynx





Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: bsnow] #606695
03/01/08 01:17 AM
03/01/08 01:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,271
Idaho
Lynxcattrapper Offline
trapper
Lynxcattrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,271
Idaho
 Originally Posted By: victortrapper
i know a guy that used "used" tampons during deer season and he swears by them, lol but its true
ABSOLUTELY... have a local guy that's use those..and pads and the animals go WILD... it's NOT unusual..just nature.
lynx





Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: Lynxcattrapper] #606710
03/01/08 01:34 AM
03/01/08 01:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,296
Michigan 19 yrs old
K
kylevandyke Offline
trapper
kylevandyke  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,296
Michigan 19 yrs old
Andy if ya want i'll send ya a few bottles of this "dynamit lure"

Last edited by kylevandyke; 03/01/08 01:37 AM.

whitetail madness all..... year....long!!!
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: kylevandyke] #606716
03/01/08 01:37 AM
03/01/08 01:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,296
Michigan 19 yrs old
K
kylevandyke Offline
trapper
kylevandyke  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,296
Michigan 19 yrs old
 Quote:
i know a guy that used "used" tampons during deer season and he swears by them, lol but its true


It works well on whitetails!! I use a little differet technique, that im only comfortable saying in a PM, so if anyone wants to kno, pm me and i'll tell ya what i do, shot bucks using it and have had NUMEROUS pass ups come into it!! I learned it from another guy at work, and now me, my buddy, my dad, and my dads buddy all use the same thing, works like a charm!


whitetail madness all..... year....long!!!
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: kylevandyke] #623624
03/09/08 05:13 PM
03/09/08 05:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,133
East TN.
High Noon Offline
trapper
High Noon  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,133
East TN.
Ok guys I'm gonna step in it here. I quit making trapping lures back in the 80's to study deer. After 20 some years I've come to some conclusions about using deer urine and other attractants. I don't always aggree with government tests. I have done all my research on deer in the wild. I could tell ya all kinds of storys about the big time deer scent companys. Some have tried to buy from us and others have bought. When you sell to these big time companys you have to sign papers saying that you won't give any information about them etc. So don't ask!
If you have alot of money you can sell anything. You just buy as many ads as you can. TV, magizines, etc. Buy a few people, put them on your so called "PRO STAFF" and so on. These companys have to buy from many suppliers to meet demands. Some get another company to bottle and put it in pretty packaging. Do you think that there is alot of quality control going on? Do these big companys know what they are buying? Then do we mix this barrel of urine with that barrel of urine? These are things you should think about. Oh ya forgot about the new craze of serial numbers. Think I'll get outa bed when Mr. Buckie decides to mount Mrs. In Heat at 2 oclock in the morning. I could go on forever!
Back to the subject of deer urine and in heat scent. I do sell alot of in heat scent. Does it work better than regular deer urine? Thats really what your looking for right? And why do I sell in heat scent if it doesn't work?
OK HERE GOES! I don't know. Glad I got that outa the way!
Here's what I do know. I have shot as many big bucks with regular doe and young buck urine during the rut as I have using In Heat Scent. And also during testing I have not seen any more attraction to in heat than to regular doe urine. I have however seen better attraction to young buck and dominate buck urine. The only time Doe in heat outshined was the first day or two. Some big companys start packaging in May or June! How about your store bought urine vs. fresh urine. It's hands down with fresh urine. Where do you get fresh urine? From me of course:) Why do I sell Doe-in-Heat? (Because some guys watch to much TV and swear by it:0) REALLY some guys swear by it and that's what works for them. You have the tools you need right in front of you do your research and find those who sell fresh urine. But you still need to know who sells watered down urine and a host of other things.
I know some deer farmers that collect urine for 3 weeks when they think that the does are in heat then mix up three weeks worth and call it in-heat. Nothing gained if you don't put in the time. That's what's so great about this site that Paul runs. Do you have great bait makers and others that share what works for them? Am I a better lure and baitmaker than Bob J., Asa L., Paul D., or others? I think not! Do I have some lures and baits that work? Yes I do. Does one persons lure work better than anothers? Do we have a favorite lure, and does that tend to make us buy more of that persons products?
You have some great moderators on this website and you can find alot of answers on here, use it. What I write on here is just my opinion. I think that you have some of the very best lure and baitmakers around that answer the best they can without giving up their livelyhoods. I do have this one last thought, and that is this. These guys (Bob, Asa, Paul) sell an honest product and might not make the best of proffit on some of them, but they try to give you a product that works. And just like me, they keep trying to improve products. If they didn't we wouldn't learn much from them would we? It costs lots of time and money to come up with new and better products. The cost of everything is going up so don't complane if these guys have to raise prices in the very near future. They don't make as much proffit as you may think! If they help you, help them in return.
I have started making lures and bait for trapping again because I have grown tired of all the testing for deer that I've done over the last 20 or so years. And I was a Trapper before I was a Deer hunter. I'm not so young anymore and do alot of thinking about climbing those treestands as I hunt alone. I can still kneel down and set a mean trap though, so that's where my interest lies now until I can't get up off the ground. Hopefully my wife will just grind me up and sell me for Yote bait when that day comes. I will make the best yote bait anyone has ever or will ever come up with. So bid high as I'm sure my wife will sell me on E-Bay! I hope she puts a good reserve price on me:0)

Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: High Noon] #623674
03/09/08 05:58 PM
03/09/08 05:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,332
PA
E
elkaholic Offline
trapper
elkaholic  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,332
PA
Gonna be a run on gynie tools now Andy.


I know what you mean about dogs going nutso.

Ours goes insane.


Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: elkaholic] #623741
03/09/08 06:37 PM
03/09/08 06:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 28
Maryland
W
woodswalker Offline
trapper
woodswalker  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 28
Maryland
I can see it now.... "Charles, go wait in the truck. I'm gonna lure this set. Gimme a few minutes.... You can get the next one..."

Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: elkaholic] #623755
03/09/08 06:51 PM
03/09/08 06:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,163
Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
trapper
Asa Lenon  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,163
Gulliver, Michigan
Back in the Michigan bounty era with a bounty paid on wolves, coyote, bobcat and fox there were a lot of trappers as a good trapper could make a fair living or make a difference in thier family's living standard. There were many I remember who bolstered ideas about using the wife's sanitary napkins, peeing on sets, etc. I can only say that these guys NEVER come anywhere near to harvesting numbers that were brought in by guys like my Dad and some of the better State trappers and State trapper instructors. Those who followed the age-old method of throughness and attention to detail along with common sense lure, bait and urine formulation and usage were always the top producers year after year. Bounty payments were public record so one could always check and see if the sanitary napkin/set peeing type trappers were doing all that they bolstered. None ever did to my knowledge and recollection and the coyotes harvested by them were most always pups in the Summer just leaving the den. To bounty an animal, one had to take the whole body into the DNR and make out a form for each animal. Information on the form included sex, age, whether trapped or hunted, section/range and township of harvest, etc. Anyone could go to the DNR office and thumb through the records on anyone bountying animals. The times when I did run a check on some bragging trappers all I seen were pups, pups, and more pups in limited numbers compared to the thorough trappers. Deer are a different story, I have no doubt that human scent can and does attract many, it was always known that a woman had to be careful in rutting season or in a pasture containing a bull. Ace

Re: SERIOUS LURE QUESTION, Please be serious. [Re: Asa Lenon] #624412
03/10/08 12:49 AM
03/10/08 12:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,133
East TN.
High Noon Offline
trapper
High Noon  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,133
East TN.
Well said Asa, my thoughts were from what I learned studing deer. One last thing I might add is this. I don't use the napkins anymore as I have found other ways that work just as well. Gun hunters don't have as much use for urines and masking scents as bow hunters do. And the very biggest mistake bow hunters make is not being able to mask themselves properly. Deer are very curious and will check out most any smell they happen upon. But I asure you that hunting Trophy Whitetails is in fact very different than hunting deer. And so are the ways of hunting them. Trapping other critters is another thing all together.
Stan

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