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#6076282 - 12/06/17 10:10 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
mnsota Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 1229
Loc: minnesota
The queer couple should have moved on and bought their cake elsewhere. I suspect they targeted the baker to draw
maximum coverage to their in "your face attitude". That's consistent with that community.

I hope the baker wins.

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#6076285 - 12/06/17 10:15 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
J Staton Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 2275
Loc: Arkansas
I wonder if in CO a man enters a Jewish or Muslim deli and demands they make him a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich the shop owner would be required by law to make it?

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#6076286 - 12/06/17 10:16 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
Predatorfever32 Online   content
trapper

Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 152
Loc: Pennsylvania
This should have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with property rights

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#6076289 - 12/06/17 10:22 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 9834
Loc: Eastern Shore of Maryland
I suspect this wouldn't be an issue if his shop was a members only but he purchased a public business license which came with an agreement to abide by laws preventing discrimination.

As was stated earlier if his business practice is that he doesn't decorate ANY cake that is against his religious teaching, which is the why he is citing for not doing so, he should win.
_________________________
"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-

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#6076291 - 12/06/17 10:24 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: jwill]
RKG Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/18/16
Posts: 162
Loc: PA
Quote:


Maybe a little study on you're part would clear up what is consistent with the Christian faith. Old covenant versus new and all.


I'll have to check, but I think Romans chapter 1 is in the New Testament (specifically vv 26-28)

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#6076294 - 12/06/17 10:26 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: HobbieTrapper]
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 8031
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
I suspect this wouldn't be an issue if his shop was a members only but he purchased a public business license which came with an agreement to abide by laws preventing discrimination.

As was stated earlier if his business practice is that he doesn't decorate ANY cake that is against his religious teaching, which is the why he is citing for not doing so, he should win.

"Public business license" may be the very root of the problem, however, I doubt too many can see that far anymore.

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#6076299 - 12/06/17 10:32 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: RKG]
jwill Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 558
Loc: wyoming
Originally Posted By: RKG
Quote:


Maybe a little study on you're part would clear up what is consistent with the Christian faith. Old covenant versus new and all.


I'll have to check, but I think Romans chapter 1 is in the New Testament (specifically vv 26-28)


Good grief, go back and look at the context of what I said and why I replied to hobie.
_________________________
And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement!

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#6076313 - 12/06/17 11:09 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: HobbieTrapper]
trapre Online   embarrased
trapper

Registered: 11/29/17
Posts: 82
Loc: state college, PA
We should still follow the Old Testament but Christ died so the rules aren't as strict.
_________________________
If a sparrow can not fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? -Benjamin franklin

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#6076323 - 12/06/17 11:20 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
trapre Online   embarrased
trapper

Registered: 11/29/17
Posts: 82
Loc: state college, PA
we don't have to sacrifice anymore do we? no. But we have to follow the commandments? yes.
_________________________
If a sparrow can not fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? -Benjamin franklin

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#6076327 - 12/06/17 11:21 AM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: mnsota]
trapre Online   embarrased
trapper

Registered: 11/29/17
Posts: 82
Loc: state college, PA
Originally Posted By: mnsota
The queer couple should have moved on and bought their cake elsewhere. I suspect they targeted the baker to draw
maximum coverage to their in "your face attitude". That's consistent with that community.

I hope the baker wins.
agreed.
_________________________
If a sparrow can not fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? -Benjamin franklin

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#6076420 - 12/06/17 01:21 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
Kart29 Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1017
Loc: Hancock Co., Indiana
The Old Testament included three kinds of law

Civil law for the governing of the people, administration of the courts, etc.
Ceremonial law - for the regulation of religious practice and worship
Moral law (the Ten Commandments) - to define a code of behavior for the people consistent with God's character and nature.

The civil law is obsolete because the Hebrew national government with God as the head of state no longer exists.
The ceremonial law was made irrelevant when Jesus said "This is the New Covenant of my blood"
The moral law (the Ten Commandments) is still effective and unchanged as God's nature is unchanged.

The requirements not to have tattoos and not to wear garments of two kinds of fabric and not to cook a kid goat in its mothers milk were part of the ceremonial law which is informative but not applicable at this time.


I think the problem is with a state law preventing discrimination based on sexual orientation. Eliminate that rotten law and the problem goes away.
_________________________
"Felt the lightning - and waited on the thunder"

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#6076431 - 12/06/17 01:40 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: adam m]
Hupurest Offline
"Andy S wannabe"

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 2848
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: adam m
I say it hangs in the balance. Being serviced isn't a right it's a privilege. The same sex couple should've put on their big girl/boy underwear and taken their business elsewhere. But nooooo they decided to through a tantrum like a 3 yr old who can't get the candy in the store.


Ok, I disagree 100% with this....


Change the "gay couple" with other examples to see if it passes the test...

Is it ok if the cake people said
"we don't bake cake for Injuns"??
"we don't serve black people here"
"we don't serve Jews here"
"we don't serve Whites here"
"we don't serve divorced people here"
"we don't serve republicans here"

Because you don't agree with someones sexual orientation doesn't make it ok to discriminate against them....

And as far as your line about the tantrum, the bible bangers threw just as big of a tantrum......
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Malukchuk
I'll take wolves over idiots any day.

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#6076454 - 12/06/17 01:56 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: mnsota]
Hupurest Offline
"Andy S wannabe"

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 2848
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: mnsota
The queer couple should have moved on and bought their cake elsewhere. I suspect they targeted the baker to draw
maximum coverage to their in "your face attitude". That's consistent with that community.


Its also consistent in the bible banger community to throw back they don't bake cakes for gays...


The only reason this case is here, is because the baker is a friggin idiot...

"sorry I don't bake cakes for queers"..... all high and mighty.....

meanwhile, if he had said "im sorry, based on the cake you want and the timeline and my current orders, I don't have the availability to make you a cake."



baker should lose for being an idiot...and openly discriminating.....
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Malukchuk
I'll take wolves over idiots any day.

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#6076455 - 12/06/17 01:57 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
J Staton Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 2275
Loc: Arkansas
Hupurest I believe you are seeing this a civil rights case when actually it is a first amendment case dealing with freedom of religion. The baker offered to sell them any cake in his shop he was just unwilling to decorate it. He did the same with people wanting him to decorate a divorce celebration cake, Halloween cake, etc. Those folks respected his decision but the gay couple not so much. It is my belief that this is an attack upon Christianity and not a case of a civil liberties. Just another case of militant atheist/activist IMO. Wonder if this gay couple or any gay couple has found a Muslim baker to bake them a gay marriage cake?

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#6076484 - 12/06/17 02:39 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 9834
Loc: Eastern Shore of Maryland
I have no doubt a sizzling contest was started because of distain for conviction. Both participants will suffer because of it.
_________________________
"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-

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#6076491 - 12/06/17 02:58 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: Hupurest]
Lugnut Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5666
Loc: SEPA
Originally Posted By: Hupurest
Originally Posted By: adam m
I say it hangs in the balance. Being serviced isn't a right it's a privilege. The same sex couple should've put on their big girl/boy underwear and taken their business elsewhere. But nooooo they decided to through a tantrum like a 3 yr old who can't get the candy in the store.


Ok, I disagree 100% with this....


Change the "gay couple" with other examples to see if it passes the test...

Is it ok if the cake people said
"we don't bake cake for Injuns"??
"we don't serve black people here"
"we don't serve Jews here"
"we don't serve Whites here"
"we don't serve divorced people here"
"we don't serve republicans here"

Because you don't agree with someones sexual orientation doesn't make it ok to discriminate against them....

And as far as your line about the tantrum, the bible bangers threw just as big of a tantrum......


Your first four examples are of racial discrimination and would be illegal, as they should be.

If a business owner had a religious objection to serving divorced folks (or gay folks), it might be stupid but I see no grounds for it to be illegal. If he had a political objection to serving Republicans, it might be stupid (could cost him half his customer base) but, again, I see no grounds for it to be illegal.

It's not illegal or considered discrimination to refuse service to a shirtless or barefoot person is it? Why not?
_________________________
Eh...wot?

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#6076500 - 12/06/17 03:16 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: Lugnut]
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 9834
Loc: Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Lugnut


It's not illegal or considered discrimination to refuse service to a shirtless or barefoot person is it? Why not?


It is discrimination if your reason for doing so is something other than the safety and welfare of your patrons.
_________________________
"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-

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#6076506 - 12/06/17 03:20 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: Lugnut]
Woodsloafer72 Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 493
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Lugnut


It's not illegal or considered discrimination to refuse service to a shirtless or barefoot person is it? Why not?


When I se those no shoes, no shirt, no service signs I always wonder what would be said about no pants! laugh

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#6076510 - 12/06/17 03:26 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: HobbieTrapper]
Lugnut Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5666
Loc: SEPA
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted By: Lugnut


It's not illegal or considered discrimination to refuse service to a shirtless or barefoot person is it? Why not?


It is discrimination if your reason for doing so is something other than the safety and welfare of your patrons.


So if a shop owner had a moral objection to shirtless people and refused to serve them based on that, it would be discrimination, but would it be illegal?
_________________________
Eh...wot?

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#6076517 - 12/06/17 03:35 PM Re: Patty Cake Patty Cake Baker Man... [Re: J Staton]
J Staton Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 2275
Loc: Arkansas
If I find a bakery ran by an openly gay baker and ask him to bake me a cake decorated with the words, "Homosexuality is an abomination and all gays will burn in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)!" and the baker refuses to do so, does he violate my civil liberties?

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