I've seen a lot of threads recently about predator calling. This is kind of a passion of mine , has been for well over 30 years, especially when I relocated to a different part of my state that is predator heavy . However, the federal and state lands are essentially a no go for trapping them . Even many of the ranchers and lease holders love for you to shoot them , not so much set traps. So , adapt and overcome.
So let's share ideas and lessons learned.

If using your phone to play calls use a clean plastic bottle as a megaphone.

Plenty of quality calls for free download.

No matter the hunt it turns into a yote hunt if yotes are seen as long as your not tracking a buck or elk.

Calls are like guns can't ever have too many.

As you stated calling can gain permission.

I love hunting coyotes just wish I could find one

Love it. I use to do a lot more of it. My partners have all disappeared for various reasons so I don't do as much.

I'd like to get into calling. I have a foxpro wildfire ecaller. My terrain would be mountainous hardwoods with some pastures. I know we have good populations of yotes and cats. I was reading the post about the lights for night hunting and am considering getting a green light for night. I know the best way to learn is trial and error, but where would you more experienced ones start? Day or night. Loud or quiet calling?

I learned to wait a few seconds before shooting. I called out a fox one time and just before shooting I spotted another set of eyes coming down the dark trail which turned out to be a wolf. Shot the wolf. I was using a mini phantom jack rabbit in distress call. Worked well on lynx and Fox too but never a wolverine.

Decoy dogs...

I've completely changed how I choose a decoy dog . I used to use pretty rough dogs like curs, airedales, and catahoulas . My go to dog now is a GSP . Why ? He likes to roam big , he's just rough enough to handle himself should he have to tie into a wounded coyote but he's not overly aggressive. And lastly, when a coyote approachea Tripp initially goes into that pre-point , stiff-legged stalk that seems to drive territorial coyotes insane . Then the real fun begins .

That brings me to my next point...

Coyote hunting and predator calling aren't always the same game. Ryan kinda hit on that .

Learn in the morning.

Osky

Today is the first time I have called a Yote into shooting distance to see it. I got a Foxpro Patriot I just got. I have tried a few different times over the years to call one in with no luck. I know distress calls are good to use, but I don't know how long of a duration is good to keep it running. Today, I would run it for a few short minutes then shut off for 5 minutes or so then repeat. I ran for around 45 or more minutes. Then switched to a coyote pup in distress, that's when I saw the yote. I should have shut it off because I could see it within 70 yards just no shot because it was in the woods. Can someone tell me what they do while calling, on how long you let it run? thanks in advance. I am an experienced deer hunter and can call them well, Turkeys too,. I hate yotes around my house and so want to thin them out more than I am trapping this year.

Biggest factor in my estimation is getting into your calling location unseen or heard.
Call softly at first, they have very good ears.
Start out 4 - 5 minutes then couple minute break. Repeat.
If conditions are right a hand caller I prefer.
I have had them come within seconds, some 45 mins or better.
After 20 good minutes my feet are ready to wander.
When you spot one, back that sound down.
No prisoners, no educating, shoot to kill and be dam sure you do.

Osky

I believe the best time overall is first light until 11:00 am.
They seem to get up and moving good again about 1 1/2 hours before sunset.

Many totally different things can and do happen when night hunting not all of them good.
Become a good daylight hunter before you tackle the night.

Osky

Too, think of this like fishing and you've got a whole box of lures and baits . One day , or even hour, one thing might draw them on string . Next, might be something completely different.

Lol !! Regular rock stars

Now how is that young man gonna get any coyotes from there with all those giggles noisy girls around?
I think think that picture has been phony shopped.

Osky

Geez RN. Where did you dredge up the " nerds of the year" pic?

I normally try to give usefull info but am changing my way Abit about calling critters.
To many " trying" to do it now and it's getting outta hand

Curmudgeon


Osky

Im not a pro but I use to call a dozen or so coyotes and a handful of cats every year pretty regular 15 years ago. Once the electric calls start to become popular and everyone with a hunting license started to try and call once or twice a year it got a lot tougher to be successful around here. Seems yotes get pretty wise about calling really fast.

Now that's it been discussed... Competition

In my part of SW Oklahoma, I have access to lots of public land . This land is almost always shotgun or archery only hunting . No idea why. Good news it doesn't see a lot of calling pressure . Apparently, guys can't wrap their heads around killing coyotes with shotguns .

My dad first got me interested in coyote calling when I was around 13. I'm 53 now. How I call kinda depends on what I have going on at the time. If I'm checking traps and things are dead, I might call a few stands on the way home. I don't count that as serious calling even though I often shoot something. If I'm dead serious, I'll go to one of my favorite areas way farther than my traps, get there at sunrise, and make as many stands as I possibly can- often running back to my truck. If I call something in every 4 or 5 stands, I'll call it a good day. Making between 12 and 15 stands is about as many as I can do. I won't usually call in high wind or around a full moon. In my experience, I just don't do well. My favorite times to call are calm days right after a storm, and around a new moon.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake I see people make is the use of overpowered scopes, especially in cover like sage. I've seen more guys all outfitted with 22 power Nightforces act like coyotes are gonna give up and climb in the back of their trucks. Then they can't find them in close calling, and don't at least bring a shotgun. Give me a 1x6 any day of the week. Even a fixed 4. There is a place for high power scopes, just not often in calling as I experience it.

On a different note, when my dad died and I was cleaning out his garage, I found a few of his old calls. This was a year ago or so. I want to find some kind of glass case or other display to put them in.

Something you'll find while researching online about calling coyotes is a lot of "never-do-x" or "you-must-always-do-y". Coyotes don't wear watches, they can't count and they can't read. Run your call however you want. I like the on-a-gain off-again approach but know of many who like to let it run non stop. Fine to start off at low volume but I don't think loud is going to scare a coyote unless it's 20 feet away. I usually start quiet but have had them come charging in close after 20 minutes when I have cranked the volume all the way up. I've read many times that I should never howl because that scares other coyotes. Huh? Think about that for a second. I almost always start with howls and have had many pop up in range or howl back within seconds. I like to howl with a hand call. Fox pro howls don't get much response in my experience.

Like already said I think it's very important to approach a spot as quietly as possible. Car doors and human voices can be heard by coyotes much farther away than we probably think.

good info. thanks Osky

I suck at both. Been trying for years to call something in and the only time I succeeded was the very first time I tried with the foxpro I got for Christmas when I was about 15-16. Cousin and I had sat and played distress calls for about 20 minutes and had no action, nighttime, well we decided to start playing with the different stock sounds on the foxpro, and ended up calling in a grey fox after we'd hit every call on the caller, cousin missed. I try to get out, have tried hand calls, decoys, foxpro, tried for greys, reds, coyotes, bobcats, and wolves when we had a season. Go out with the caller on full moon, snow covered nights. What are some of the things you refer to that are "totally different things"? if you don't mind my asking.

I started in '69 with Weam's and Circe hand calls, or a piece of cellophane off a pac
of cigarettes if I didn't have a call with me when I saw a varmint. That is what we called them then. Predators! oooooh scary. Good stuff for TV stars.
I got a good deal on a Burnham brothers cassette, six volt, monstrosity with three cassettes a charger and booklet. The speaker had fifty or sixty feet of wire and a carry case. It weighed about twenty pounds but it was loud had fair sound reproduction and it worked good. Over the years I've called in red and grey fox coyote, bobcat, coons, crows feral cats, coaty mundy (sp)
skunks, civit cat (ringtail)
& a few owls and hawks. I prefer to call at night but can't now do to where I live. By the way you older guys probably remember the six volt head lamps with the battery on your belt. For a thrill, have an owl snatch your headlamp and watch cap off your head about one am. Or a grey Fox run across your legs from behind you. A lot of the development in technology has made it more attractive to more people but the basics still rule. Approach the setup with stealth.Keep movement on stand to a minimum.
The Burnham brothers advice, "If you are serious about hunting for fur carry a twelve gauge with #4 buck" is still good advice. Don't disregard the basic hunting skills and shooting skills or you will educate coyote, not good! I feel that because of the shows and articles a lot of people think they can just go plop down in the brush turn on the caller and here they come! Yea right! I honestly believe I have had coyote bust me because I moved MY EYES to fast. Going out tomorrow morning about five
Don't really expect a bonanza, most of the coyote around here have a PHD from people that educated them with sloppy techniques and run&gun tactics, and poor shooting. But I don't have the time to go eighty miles for a morning hunt to find some with only a master's ha ha. When a varmint is coming to a call they are on high alert. Keep that in mind, shoot straight and kill them. Don't educate any more of them than you can help. Calling today on public land is 500 times less productive than it was when I was young. Think there is five hundred times fewer varmints? I don't. I think a lot of them associate a call with people just like turkey and elk. Develop your skills and rely less on gadgets. Happy calling.

I to have called many years now, with a few dead dogs to count, the single most defining thing for me out here was to stop worrying about which way the wind was blowing.

Yes I keep track of it, but if I find a location I feel is doable and looks shoot able, I make the stand regardless of how the wind is blowing. To many times now that them dogs failed to read or watch that book or vid that say's watch down wind, it's where they will come from, just ain't so all the time !

I guess the second thing would be if the wind is blowing real hard, I still will go, but I'll go to the secluded windless areas where dogs are to be laying out of the wind.

The last thing is learning patience when calling and not giving up, you fail most of the time now day's because the dogs are now so educated they are not interested in moving to the sound, not because they don't want to, but because they feel threatened by what they have found there before.

When you think you have been calling a spot to long give it 10-15 more minutes. Calling coyotes I couldn't tell you how many times I thought enough is enough. Get ready to pack everything to the next stand and here they come.

For you experienced ones, when calling do you prefer prey distress or coyote calls? I would assume the time of year will dictate it to a degree.

Typically, I’ll stay with prey calls . Why call just coyotes when there are lots of additional predators that may show ? Won’t happen using ki-yi’s , challenge howls , and so on .

That being said , they’ll definitely work for coyotes but I don’t like using them without a decoy dog . Their behavior is completely different when responding to the two .

Great thread!

I’d go out during the day .

I guess re reading my posts it looks like I only go at night. I've hunted substantially more during the day, just make it a point to go out on full moon snow covered nights. I've come to the conclusion that I just stuck at it, being I've done a fair bit and never killed one.

Learn to use an open reed call. Closed reed calls freeze up in the cold weather.

The more ground you can cover, the better. I'd rather make two twenty minute calling stands then one 1-hour stand.

In my limited experience, shooting coyotes in the dark is harder than it sounds. The coyotes may be more active and more apt to expose themselves at night. But handling calls, lights, and weapons all at the same time and shooting accurately after dark is not so easy.

I would have killed more coyotes if I carried a shotgun all the time. Rifles are great for long shots and I carry one most often, but where I live, quick shot opportunities at moving coyotes in cover seems to be more common than coyotes out in the open at over 50 yards range.

Use a good quality buckshot. Copper or nickel plated and buffered shotshells are more important than the choke you use. Don't use the cheap, plain-lead buckshot. Get the Winchester Supreme, Remington Premier, or Federal Vital-Shok grades of shotshells. They are well worth searching out because the hold a much tighter pattern.

Around here, the coyotes seem to stick to the cover during daylight hours. Don't expect to call them out into an open field on a regular basis. Catch them following ditches, weedy fencelines, and edges of woodlots.

I seem to have the best luck on the coldest days of the year.

Calling coyotes does seem much less effective now than it was 10-15 years ago.

(1) Call your first 20 or so predators to a shotgun, nerves and impatience will make it tough to connect with a rifle for a inexperienced caller.
(2) Make your movements with the gun slow, controlled, and fluid,... Quick, jerking movements will put them on the run.
(3) Scent matters, watch the downwind side, but you can sit crosswind, or quartering wind, to maximize sightings.
(4) Approaching the calling stand is where 90% of the screw ups happen, quietly shut the truck door, watch the wind, walk in like a stalking Indian, pick a quiet approach route.
(5) Learn to love handcalls, they trump electronics in todays over-called areas the majority of the time, call quieter than what seems necessary to your ears.
(6) Camo on everything, headnet, gloves, gun, etc.
(7) Pay attention to birds scolding, or staring cattle, horses, deer, etc. looking in a direction other than your calling...Animal senses are superb and they will tip you off to incoming predators.
(8) Learn to call in the daylight, where you can make the most use of your own senses until you gain experience.
(9) With handcalls, really put emotionalism into your calls, trailing off at the end with the dying quivers...Make it bleed!!
(10) Have fun, predator calling is a premium hunting experience, nothing compares for excitement IMO...Also remember firearm safety, things can and do happen fast with multiple predators responding at times...Goodluck!

Scopes were mentioned above.
For daytime shooting my absolute choice would be a straight 4x with a 50mm light gathering front. Don't know of one or if it would come with the reticle I prefer. I'm old school, I know where to hold at yardage after a bit of practice.
Keep it simple. The night belongs to my 12 gauge thumper.

Osky

Good thread!!

I always had better luck on dark nights without the moon too.

You can say that again. Getting a show on TV was the worst thing to happen to coyote hunting. Now, everyone and their dog goes out, doesn't have a clue what they're doing, and makes it harder for the people that have been doing it before it was the cool thing to do.

I figured that picture was taken at your camp. Looks like some of your hunting students!

Same here!!

My experience with bobcats is we call in way more than we see. They normally come super stealthy the last 100 yds. Really common for them to hang up were they can see the area were the sound is coming from and just watch and if a cat isn't moving you ain't seeing him. I love calling from deer stands for cats and don't move period.

Hey John, them gals look " a tad" bit better than the hooglims we had at camp this past year

My two cents... you have to beat their nose above all else. Try to set up with the wind in your favor however that is not always possible. They will work their way in with their nose in the air. For every coyote I kill at night I kill 10 in the daylight. A shotgun is a great asset. Everyone wants a rifle with a big scope for long range shooting. Don’t buy into this unless your in the Dakotas or similar state. A rifle with a 3 or 4 x is perfect. There will be some long shots but close shots are more frequent. I like to use hand calls . My favorite are the Seery AP6 and a old wooden cottontail call. I have and use a Rich Higgins custom howler. For nighttime calling I use a aluminum Tri pod I built with a Foxpro caller. We mainly hunt foxes at night but do call in a few coyotes to the gun.
I had access to high dollar thermal night vision as a LEO. My buddy and I would set up at night with the foxpro while I scanned with the thermal. With the thermal I could see coyotes coming to the call. They would get real close and my buddy would turn on his light and could not see the coyotes because of the brush. One night I could see six coyotes coming to the call working the wind and my buddy could not see any of them. A couple were within 50 yds. A few nights of this changed us to daytime coyote hunters. I have hunted and killed coyotes in Arizona,New Mexico the Dakotas and several Midwest states.
You will call in way more than you see. You will call in way more than you will shoot. How ever once you can kill coyotes on a regular basis all other hunting is easy.

Coyote calling is the funnest hunting out there in my opinion. No such thing as "never" or "always" with coyotes.

If you want to see some spectacular coyote hunting pics check out derbyacrebob's threads over on predatormastersforums.com

Also lots of good threads on predator calling there.

I always hear conflicting options on how to setup concerning the wind. Which is it?

That, sir, is a tough one . I'll give my .02 tomorrow when my tablet is charged.

For me it was all about some doing and application through a couple years of steady calling. I found with using elevation and distance it was not as much concern how my scent cone was flowing out into the area.

Elevation seemed to keep it far enough away or out of the nose of incoming dogs. I stopped worrying about the wind direction when so many dogs just kept coming in when the wind was supposed to be stopping them.

I still keep track of the wind though, but I don't let it stop me from making stands that most seem to be worrying about where the wind moves directly into the are I'm calling.

Even when I am down even on the ground calling into heavy sage and grease woods or river bottoms I still call favorable setups or those that look promising. I still have dogs commit.

Maybe it has for my area a lot more to do with hungry dogs or those more interested in the call. But for my calling I really don't let the wind stop me from making stands I like any more.

Should one be concerned about wind direction, yea It teaches you alot about other animal movements, such as birds coming in, that dogs may follow, it shows direction of flow of your scent, thats good for use in other types of hunting applications.

I would assume that in heavy covered habitat your scent cone can be stopped and linger filling up the area making dogs appear much more cautious or actually so, would be a natural logical conclusion for it to do so. Timing is probably more critical to success in calling dogs into these types of areas and probably shows them reversing direction when entering a heavy covered area. If they respond quickly after your set up, probably a greater chance of success if your on them than when they respond at the end of your timing in the stand.

I feel and try to express to others the need to learn your targets in hunting as well as ones equipment so that your more comfortable taking the time to a successful conclusion or harvest.

My bottom line is I have had to much success in calling dogs to really worry any more about them not coming into shooting range when the wind is a so called problem as so many people profess it to be. Maybe it's a range factor for me, I can take them before they are over cautious and I am reading the wind to be not a problem cause I can take them before others who fell it necessary to worry about the wind. I know that wind direction plays an important roll in trapping due to scent dispersal. So it is important to be watchful of direction.

The majority of my dog kills have been at 100 yards or less with many in much closer do to heavy commitment. I have had many dogs stop at distances further out and try to wind the sound, usually these dogs continue to move in a circle trying to find the source, so I do know there is some validity to the wind theory, still I have learned that when they stop if in range I have a shot and can take them if I have watched them come in. I have found that these dogs usually are grown adults, so either it is the wind or they are just very cautious coming in. However I still have been able to get the shot in a down wind situation.

Hows that for one way or the other LOL

will suggest to anyone that has grey fox to go out and scream at them with the grey fox pup tape.we have lots of greys and thats all i hunted when i started and you can learn a lot that can come in handy when you go after other canines.great post,will stop back in here when i have more time.

Thank you for starting this thread. I just started calling and this is just what I need. I would prefer to start out doing things right, versus being an idiot shooting at every dog in the state, and educating them. What kind of Calls do you use this time of year, Bird distress, rabbit in distress, Gray fox in distress, ECT.
Thank you again!
Trapre

I have not worried about the wind much. Some of the biggest old dogs I've taken came right up it.
In the west where I did my work so many years the windier it was the more I got down into broken country, and called from locations closer together. In near hurricanes I had smart old dogs rush in to 50 yards and less.
As a rule if I could set up with 100 yards of flat or open to my downwind side, I figured good enough and they would come at least that far into wind and I would take them. Maybe I have missed a bunch I'll never know.
Here I like to use old deer stands if I can get in them quiet enough, some get salt on the steps when I go by a day or two ahead of time and see good sign. Those stands again must allow me a pretty decent look where the wind goes or I move on to another.
These are pretty much good memories in this country as the wolves have cleaned out the coyotes pretty well and I don't push the little guys that I do run across at this time.

Osky

in my opinion... calling for about 30 seconds is as long as you should ever call.... you want them to hear it... but you don't really want them to pinpoint your position right from the start... wait about 3-5 mins... if you see nothing then call again about 30 seconds.... if you do see one... if he's coming in don't do anything. Let him come.. if he stops and acts like he just wants to look... thats because he's not positive where the sound came from. At this point you want to lip squeak just until he looks at you and starts coming in again... Then when he get close enough... shoot him. It takes experience to judge how things are going as far as if he's getting nervous or about ready to bolt. Play the wind... the wind is the most important factor when calling... if he starts to circle to your downwind... you better shoot. 75% of calling coyotes is having good spots that will hold coyotes more often than not. The remaining 25% is little things... like if they can even hear the sound or was it too windy? Maybe they just aren't interested ? You won't call something in every time.... sometimes they'll just sit down and look... sometimes they'll just go back to sleep... With all the e-callers on the market... god only knows what these coyotes have experienced!!! Make sure you hide your vehicle... when driving to you spot... go slow down the road... i mean slow... like 10mh tops!!! sneak into your stand ...like you were deer hunting....

P.S.. GREAT calling spots are just like great fishing spots!! why go fish where you've never caught fish? I hunt the same stand locations EVERY YEAR!!!!

You guys prefer to call buy yourself or is there an advantage to have two guys. I call by myself and lately another guy would be helpful. They seem to be coming in from every direction there not supposed to and I’m not getting good shots at them.

Haven't posted here in a long time. Seen this thread last night and thought I may add my .02........LOL

I haven't trapped much the past cpl years other than my ADC work. I have been calling on a regular basis, like every time I get a chance....LOL

Knowing your quarry and watching them closely will teach you a lot. I know it has taught me a lot anyway.

I started with an e-caller. Still use one, on a very few occasions. I bought a whole bunch of different mouth calls, now only use three different ones. A howler on occasion, a rabbit distress, and jack rabbit distress. As far as the sounds each makes, I don't think it makes a bit of difference. I use the jack distress more than any other and we don't have jacks around here at all. My other call I can change the pitch easily and it works very well also. Make it sound like something is dying or hurt, and most times "they will come". Find a call that don't take a air compressor to use and work with it. Makes it alot more fun and easier.

Wind plays into it, but not so much that I will not hunt a stand because of it. If everything is perfect I will be set up with a cross wind. That seldom happens because so many times the wind is always changing and switching anyway. If real windy, over 10mph, I hunt where the varmint will be protected from it. That in itself can be what makes the difference. Even if it means I am directly up wind from them. I also do my best to get me out of the wind. I can sit longer and move less if I can.

I used to use a guilly suit all the time also. I may still use one in certain situations, but seldom. I have set up on fence lines, CRP fields, cut corn fields, stubble bean fields, open pastures, on creeks and ponds, and in the timber. Most times wearing a pair of brown hunting pants and whatever jacket I sorta think will blend in best.

I do most times, in open country, use a decoy. It is either a rabbit pelt I have, or a coyote tail I cut off a road kill. Both tied to a string wrapped around a Kite reel. I stick the decoy on whatever I can find quickly that has some spring to it. Keep the string held down and use very slight hand movements to make the decoy move a bit. I have had hesitant yotes see that yote tail and come running all bristled up at times. They don't stay bristled long when that 12 ga barks at them. lol I use the decoys to keep the focus away from me.

Recently I have been trying something new. "Still" hunting yotes. I had found an area where the yotes were using a regular basis in and out of a pine thicket. I had called it a few times and was never able to connect. So one morning I just eased in real quiet and set up just as I would deer hunt. Took awhile but did see three and wound up shooting two of them. I have tried it in other areas and it does work, if your in the right area and you have the patience to wait them out.

I call cats at times. Not that I am trying to, they just seem to appear. I have called fox also. Reds seem to work a stand pretty much like a yote would. Greys just seem to come tearing in like crazy maddened aliens or something. You best be ready if a grey is around. Hawks and eagles will also respond of course. Which aint a bad thing, I think the yotes watch them and will be more at ease with them around. Hawks anyway, eagles maybe not so much.

Whew, carried on long enough...lol It aint rocket science, just takes a while to learn how to have fun doing it.

Great post and some excellent comments by true veterans. I use a moveable decoy that il. trapper mentioned except mine is an old 16 inch softball painted black midway down. It imitates a skunk but really is an eye attractor. I drilled a hole through the ball and screwed in an eye bolt and connected a trap swivel. To the swivel I got a (tangled) 100 ft piece of 1/16 th cable attached and I pull the ball around to get the predators attention...seems to work well. To the new callers out there, get out and experiment...calling is a ball!

I haven't seen what you guys are using for guns, besides shotguns. What do you use? I had my 22 mag the other night, but knew I couldn't get a shot where I saw one come in. That was the first time I had luck getting one to come in. Took the 243 out yesterday, didn't see anything. I am new to this, but have tried a few times over the years with no luck yet. I have a few around my house that I am more concerned about thinning way out. Anyway I can.

That is funny. And so right on. haha

A Remington R-15 .223 and a Benelli M1 12 gauge have been my calling combo this season.

The R-15 is an 18" inch barrel carbine that is a great woods rifle, fast handling and accurate...It has a Sightron Big Sky 3x9x42MM scope which pretty much stays on 3 power....A .243 and .25 -.06 are what I use for open country.

A good read for sure,thanks for your post il.trapper.

Customized Tikka .243. Federal premium 55gr ballistic tips.
Total confidence in hunting situations to 500 yards. It will get the job done a lot farther out if need be.

Osky

I tried ballistic tips in my 243 and left exit holes as big as softballs or bigger. I went back to pointed soft nose bullets. Do you save the pelts when you shoot that load?

Many don't care how big the "holes" are !
Many yotes are hitting the dirt year round !
Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons .

I am paid by local bounty and or landowner. The hides were never a thought unless spectacular and I took them for future Clothing gifts. I shot for over 30 years from north of Wolf Point to Havre MT south to Eagle Pass TX. The southern fur was never great, and a lot of my work was done at all times of the year so hides weren't prime.
The 55 grain ballistic tips I would have shot either way. Performance is terrific and unless it was a perimeter hit I really did not see much destructive problem. I also have a .240 weatherly mag that is my favorite long range rifle. I used it as long as my shoulder didn't mind and while a personal friend was alive to reload for me. He was an artist and some of the shots I made with that 26" barreled death ray were farther out than any would believe. HOWEVER that rifle with his loads absolutely demolished coyotes, no hope for the fur. That's what happens when you put a .243/6mm projectile at the end of a suped up 06 casing.

Osky

I shoot the 65 gr. Ballistic tips out of my Winchester and have never had an exit. My rifle did not like the 55 or the 58 gr. bullets so I have no idea how they would react on coyote . I have read of people shooting coyotes with small fast bullets and getting a splash affect on impact.

I wish they made a 204 in an automatic without being an AR. Like in Savage for a reasonable price. Maybe they do and I just haven't found it. Nice guns so far. I would like to use my 243 in the 55 grain bullets I bought, but I don't want to change my scope. It is hitting perfect now. Using my Remington 100 gr. psp

I used a 22-250 and a 22 hornet for years. Now I am using a 204 and a 12 ga shotgun. I am killing about 60% of the yotes with the shotgun this year. Getting them close enough is the fun part for me.

I want to add a little something I didn't earlier.

I also have been using crow decoys in the open fields. Along with a crow caww now and then while I am calling. I am not sure why, but I have seen yotes really pick up their approach when I do that. I don't call alot while on a stand. IMHO the less you have to the better off you are. As long as they are heading my way I keep quiet and still. If they stop then I call again, many times just one to three short sounds.

That don't always work of course. Sometimes I have to call almost continuously to keep a yote coming. Read their body language and you can gauge what ya need.

Last, I agree 1000% with what others have already said. Being quiet while getting to the stand is essential. If I howl to start a stand and I get a bark back, Or if I just hear a bark, or make a distress call and hear a single bark. I have already been busted. All that bark was is a warning to every yote within earshot that something aint right. I pick up and move on. May not move more then few hundrend yards, but I know to get out and do it quick.

Hope this thread stays alive, I enjoy talking this stuff. LOL

I too have a crow call on my lanyard. Don't use it a ton out west. I do like when the magpies are squawking as they come in on a quiet morning.
Just my habit but when a customer or two are coming in, if they stop holding position and looking at the sound, I quiet down and let them come. If they stop quartering left or right, squeeze.
A good friend and I were shooting a ranch and the rancher wanted to come along in the afternoon. Not an overly ambitious rancher towards the endeavor. A long sloping hillside fed into a rugged badlands area below. Those two took the caller over the hill and were positioned
Well up the hillside in grass while I had gone around back of the hill to a rocky point 150 yards right of them. Terrific views.They called and I spotted a dog coming up thru the drainages below us. He stopped down below looking up over a bank at the callers above and backed down and barked. We all heard it plainly but only I could see the yote from where I was. It went back and forth in that wash bottom barking and looking every couple minutes. Great to watch. After 8-9 minutes of this he worked away in the wash again and disappeared. He appeared to me about 75 yards back farther looking up at them from another clever bit of cover and barked his last bark. The guys never saw the coyote until I went and picked it up.
I too have never had much luck pulling them in farther when they start to bark.

Osky

I'd like to mention another point...ending the hunt. I can't tell you how many times I've stood up and seen predators either sitting looking my way or incoming....My rule of thumb now is before I pack up and quit. I sit and watch for a few minutes more. And even then you'll have some spotted as you pack up.

ttt

Yep, sometimes I stand up after I figure it's time and I see a coyote and wish I had stayed put another minute or two. But overall if by limiting my stands to about 15 minutes I get another two or three stands in for the day I'm pretty certain that I will have averaged more opportunities to bag a coyote.

I have hunted coyotes in competitions and most if not all the guys have the strategy of limiting stands to short intervals and increasing the amount of stands in a day. I would guess that over my 35 years plus of coyote calling that 80 -90% of my coyotes came in in the first 10 minutes on the stand.

But...your results could be different. I hunt in the wide open sagebrush country. Don't know nuthin' about calling in the deep pucker brush or woods that some of you guys have.

Here’s a cool tip for ya ...

For those that live in brushy country, consider buying a six foot aluminum ladder and covering it with a silencing material and neutral paint . Sit on top of that sucker and call , mine has shoulder straps . Set it up next to a scrub oak or mesquite and call . Amazing how well this works.

Incidentally, a four foot ladder works just as well. Maybe better far as mobility is concerned.

Adam sort of touched on this earlier when he mentioned using a bottle as a megaphone for sounds on a smartphone. Allow me to go one step further. I’ve got a compact Bluetooth speaker that has pretty good volume and a couple apps from the AppStore ( iHunt by Ruger is fantastic) . Just remember to put your phone on ‘ Do not disturb ‘ mode while calling. Hate to get text alerts while on stand.

The Johnny Stewart Estrus Whimper mouth call has really improved my success. It makes 3 or 4 different sounds, and really does work great despite looking strange.

I’m no expert on coyote hunting but I’ve done it quite a bit. It’s different here in the east than the west, for one thing we can’t see a mile or so away. We have rolling hills and mountains, wood lots and farmland. With that being said I’ve called in a dozen or so coyotes in my time. But I never shot any. Something always went wrong, like me whispering to my buddy, heck they can hear that at quite a distance. The calls that worked for me on my foxpro is I would start off with the coyote locator, then wait a few minutes and play a rabbit in distress call. This always worked for me especially this time of year when the breeding season would start. I’ve had coyotes as close as 50 yards and under. Just a few weeks ago I called one in but I was Hunting fox instead. I heard one howling and yipping, it was at night btw, I managed to call it in with a mouth call I had with me. But that night the wind was swirling and it shifted on me only to have it take off. But I hunt mainly fox now but if a coyote would come I’ll take it.

I went this morning at daylight, COLD! Only called in one hawk. It came to the woodpecker distress. I could see where the yotes had been last night in the snow. I just got on a main ridge and set up for 15-20 minutes. Moved on up to the next couple of big hollows where I could see 50-100 yards. These dogs have no pressure other than me the last couple of Saturday's. I would play the woodpecker or cottontail distress for 4-5 minutes varying the volume. I mainly want to kill some yotes to maybe help the fawns or grouse nest!?!? If it wasn't an hour drive to this place I'd trap it some.

IMO here in the mountainous east.............

High power lights are over-rated. I've had better luck with low powered lights.
Shotgun kills way outnumber rifle kills. Not as much open ground as western states.
Learn to use both mouth blown and digital calls. Both work and you need to use both.
Sometimes calling from a different direction to the same area will produce when thought a dead area.
Dark, windless nights are by far the best, as are certain fields like cornfields.

Time spent afield are better than nights spent inside!

I used to use only the frangibles, ballistic tips, hollow points and such. I got tired of sewing even when I picked my shots.

I went back to solids and or jacketed soft points, even with them hitting shoulders and neck areas, I still have to sew but not as bad as the other ones. I'd use the match bullets but for the reality of shooting the dogs dead, they don't mind the cost difference in my old 22-250 I used to shoot.

I only shoot my 204 now at dogs, it's by far the most enjoyable gun for shooting dogs I've ever owned and I will use solid's in it when I start to reload for it, now I use the standard varmint round, and continue to sew when I don't get the front or boiler room shot.

I always here this about calling different parts of the country, open country, yada, yada , yada...etc.

Doesn’t matter as much as you think . I’ve called predators from the Missouri Ozarks, SD Blackhills, Eastern Wyoming, Southwest US , etc.. Just because something appears wide open doesn’t mean it is. What I mean is , walk into a Johnson grass pasture and it looks wide open . Now sit down and lean against a fence post. Your visibility just went to 50 yards max. Sometimes cow trails wear down into the ground, those are predator highways , and a coyote can be on you quick even though the pasture is made up predominantly of just native grasses.

Incidentally, anyone here has as open invite to come out anytime during the fur season. Feel free to call or text... 405-246-6624 . Just tell me who you are.

"I only shoot my 204 now at dogs, it's by far the most enjoyable gun for shooting dogs I've ever owned and I will use solid's in it when I start to reload for it, now I use the standard varmint round, and continue to sew when I don't get the front or boiler room shot."
GRitguy, what is your 204? what brand is it, is it an automatic? that is a gun I have been hearing a lot about.

Aaron put me down as a maybe. I would love to go there.

Maybe I missed it what is a good overall caliber for all around predator hunting? I don't want to destroy bobcats and fox. I just want to put them down not explode them

Elitebowman, my 204 is a Ruger M77 Hawkeye special edition made for the FBU as a one of a kind for the NTA convention in New York in 2008, bolt action matted stainless Composite stock, I did put a Timney trigger in. I have an Eagle Eye Optronics adjustable illuminated 6X24X50 scope on it and yes it can shoot just as far as any 22-250 as thats what it displaced I was using for decades.
I am a solid Ruger fan, however I feel that most fine gun makers would do this caliber fine service as well

Was just about to buy one when my friend put in for the raffle for me when I found out they were having it on the raffle. I'm in the scope more than the raffle tickets cost me, one of the few times in my life I really won something nice !

My boy builds AR's and I'm going to have him build on on that platform as soon as parts come available, I've always wanted a caliber with the knockdown at the ranges I shoot in an auto, this one is what I feel would be perfect for me.

The best thing I like about this caliber is staying on shot in the scope, no heavy recoil more like a 223 really but the speed and power are comparable to the 22-250. Such a great feeling to be able to see where you hit instead of just picking them up after the shot. I plan on reloading solids as soon as I'm set back up for reloading.

I've not been bothered by wind or distance either, but must confess I still don't take long shots unless dogs are standing barking and don't leave, I always carry a range finder, and use it first on those dogs due to distance.

It's a great caliber you won't be disappointed with it !

Adam, give me a shout sometime. Heck , I wouldn’t mind going back to NM.

Far as fur friendly calibers go , I’m an ardent fan of sub-.20 calibers with good bullets . Not varmint bullets with plastic in them , but solid performers like Berger .

Thank you Gritguy for the reply. . I don't want the AR style gun, just an automatic , regular style gun. If they make an auto in that style. I am just getting into calling more, just got a Patriot, FOxpro. I want to get as good at killing Yotes as I am with Turkey and deer calling. Would like to have a gun I can shoot well up to at least 200 yards. I have a 22 mag. and I know I can't hit that well out to that with this gun, and my 243 is bigger than I want to save the pelts.

elitebowman....as far as I know no one makes a semi auto in what most would call a predator round.

As far as what caliber? You will find in most cases it is more about the bullet than the caliber. Even your 243 can be used with the right bullet and some one to load it right. That doesn't mean it would be one I would recommend.

I have been reading alot about the 20 tactical and 20 practical. Seems they are so close to my 204 it wouldn't be sensible for me to switch. Although using the less expensive brass of the 223 to make the 20 practical would save me some money.

Aaron Proffitt what sub 20 are you shooting?

Sounds good Aaron. Thanks. What kind of sub 20 do you shoot

I use a 22 Hornet for fox and coyote, I have a friend that uses a 17 Hornet, 25gr hollow points

I have called in coyotes, grays, cats and used all kinds of sounds but have never had any red fox come in and there are a few around. Does anyone know a good sound to use for Red Fox. I have tried red distress a few times with no luck.

On my foxpro I use babee cottontail for red fox, another good one is titmouse tantrum

Adam and il. trapper,

Far as I’m concerned two calibers are the cat’s meow for ammo availability . The . 17 Remington/Fireball and .204 Ruger. There are other great ones by Calhoon , . 19 Calhoon comes to mind .

Here’s the deal. If we’re talking called predators, .204 on down are spectacular as long you don’t use a bullet designed for prairie dogs.
And choose your shots carefully just as you would Big game hunting.

Fact of the matter is , I’ll never understand blowing up good fur . Never.

I’m very intrigued by the . 17 Hornet.

I've carried both shotgun and rifle and there have been hands down more times I wish I had the shotgun than the rifle than the opposite. Shotguns with the right load and right choke are deadly when calling and the pelt damage isn't that bad.

Second that 100% .

What size shells would you guys suggest if shooting a 12 ga shotgun?Would be for fox.
Usually i use my .22 mag,have killed alot of fox with it.

I shoot 3 inch shells in my 12 guage. I like bb size lead or number 2 but a lot of people shoot 4 buck. I've killed some coyotes farther than most people would believe with a shotgun.

X 2
Shot a pile of coon and gray and red fox using a 12 gauge 2 3/4 load of Hi Brass lead 2s....killed coyotes too but like BBs in lead or 3 inch 3 1/2 inch waterfowl T loads in steel...and of course the buckshot loads. Old timer that I was fortunate to have hunted with used to handload wax coated shell buckshot loads in all varieties. He shot a side by side and was deadly with it.

Copper plated B.B. ‘s were hard to beat, now they are hard to find !

What kind of chokes do you guys recommend

I did a lot of testing when I first got my 835 and found that the bigger shot ( 5’s and bigger ) did not do well with the tighter chokes. The really big shot ( BB, T and F steel and number 4 buck ) did the best with the improved and improved modified .

Adam it would be well worth your time to spend the money for enough ammo to do some testing with your gun.

Chokes will have a lot to do with the bore diameter. The 835 runs a .760 bore so you can not choke it to tight. Standard 12 bore will be .729-.730. for copper plated bb's check out the Winchester varmint X bb loads

For a factory made choke that will work well with a standard bore the .660 - .665 Indian Creek black diamond strike choke is tough to beat. My .665 out of a remington 870 - .730 bore with bb's is pretty nasty.

Jim is that .760 bore because of what mossberg calls , back bored ?

Yes sir

Indian Creek makes great chokes...I use an old Mark Bansner Tru Glo Turkey choke that patterns #2 lead, lead BB's and lead #4 Buck like a house on fire!...If I'm hunting fox I use #2 lead or lead BB's in case a coyote responds...One thing that a lot of modern callers miss is a trick that the calling pioneers utilized...Use #2 shot on the thickly furred, winter prime coyote's...The smaller shot penetrates the thick fur better, a quick follow up shot is sometimes needed with this smaller shot if in excess of 35 yds, but it will definitely get the job done.

I will Golf Ball. For sure I'm not buying T shot. I don't reload so T shot is out of the question. Can't afford $5 per round

I don’t blame you, and their is better stuff for coyotes than steel shot .

My 10ga. likes open chokes with big shot.

Ive never shot a yote with a shotgun but my dad likes to use #4 buckshot.

Winchester 120 here and I use plated BB's. Factory modified choke. 26" barrel. Knocks their lights out.

Is there a load I can shoot out of my 12 gauge that will be able to effectively reach out 65-70 yrds?

Slugs

Ive killed them on the North side of 60 yds before shooting 3" #2. I would think the right choke and a 3 1/2" would be getting close but I've never shot a 3 1/2" so it's just a guess. I killed one past 40 yds with regular #4 shot. I know it was that far because it was standing a yard in front of my bow target and my muzzle was 28" past my sliding glass door. I usually aim for head with shotgun.

ray12

I have killed a few that far with my 12ga. Both 2 3/4 and 3" loads. I don't like shooting them that far but sometimes I do. I almost everytime give them a second, and sometimes even a third shot when I do.

An ounce of BB's has I believe 57 or 58 projectiles, I want as many as I can get into them and in the right areas.

A poster above mentioned the #2 get better penetration, that is fact. I used them for many years shooting a 20ga. It did the job very well at any yote within 30-35 yds. Shot a lot of fox out to 50 yds with it. Cant tell ya how many groundhogs I killed with those shells.

Most times I aim for the base of their neck with the Shotgun.

I like to spray some yote or fox urine around before I call. It seems when the yotes go down wind and smell the urine they drop their guard and come right in.

TTT

Aaron, I called this one in yesterday. When are you coming up to go spearing? The ice is getting thick. I need someone to help cut the hole.