What is your opinion of replacing food stamps with boxed food deliveries? Should be good for farmers as a way to move commodity surpluses. WalMart takes one fith of all food stamps. They will oppose the program.

Bothers me to see SNAP cards used to purchase foods I cant justify for my family.

Eliminate both

EBT is a very abused program bought and sold for .20 on the dollar cash to buy drugs and alcohol~

I remember back in the 60's even they had canned meat, evaporated milk,cheese and many other foods available. I am not sure why that was ended but few now days know how to cook compared to back then.

Government should NEVER be the keeper of the population but we as a whole have allowed this to happen. Charity used to be handled by the churches.

Big Sugar lobby is all about candy, soda, bakery product being included on the card. My Dad is 91 and lives on Social Security and gets $15 dollars a month, he should have 5 kids living in his apartment with him, he would get more.

This used to be how it was done. I have no issue with giving out beans, rice, flour, etc... Commodities that have very little value other than nutritional. And I have no issue putting conditions on receipt of those commodities.

I do have an issue with the taxpayers money going to fund extravagant meals with no accountability.

In the old testament God made it perfectly acceptable for travelers to wander into your fields and eat their fill. But they couldn't take a single kernel of grain with them when they left. People didn't go hungry, but abuse wasn't possible.

We need to figure out a way to feed hungry people without condoning a shiftless lifestyle.

Mike

Those commodities are death in a can/box all salt and starch in most of them but like anything you can "learn" to eat the stuff but it will never be good for you.

I would not feed that stuff to my chickens!

What is the time limit for this type of 'help'?

6-9 months and then it should end unless its an extreme case......really pees me off to see so many very well dressed and obviously well fed folks using this type of payment. I have seen a few that walk outside and get in a brand new vehicle and drive away.

Some of us scrape by on our own......maybe we are the stupid ones?

I don't see a link explaining what would be handed out, so what are you referring to?

Last I knew, the Cherokees still pass out commodities to members of their tribe.

It's good stuff made with real ingredients. Their Mac n' Cheese blows Kraft's garbage out of the water.

I'm just a poor working white stiff... So I have to budget and make good choices about what I eat.

Hard to screw up a bag of pinto beans.

Mike

There must be different grades of commodities the stuff they hand out is nasty but the youth academy I worked at was considered "Non-profit" somehow and the stuff they got was a better grade you would be surprised what came off of that truck as a commodity. Meats, salad dressings, cheese and a lot more some was pretty good stuff, they never got the canned meats for some reason.

I had the same Government boxes but seemed like better stuff.

Find a can of meat products and try to eat some it will answer your question, does everything need a link? LOL

Look up the diabetes and High blood pressure numbers on the Indian reservations that might answer you question too.

I can see the pros to this that it could reduce the amount of fraud or abuse but it seems like any savings seen from that would be offset by the cost of distributing.

maybe trump will be like regan and give out some gubermint cheese :}... that was some good stuff had grill cheese n mater soup for long time... dang i miss them days

If you have ever been in a SD jail at meal time you would see the negative effect commodities have on people that depended on them, it is common practice to cover everything with salt and then blacken it with pepper to get to the level they are accustom to.

Not sure what they get now on the Rez but the kids at the Academy had a lot of commodity jokes and saying it was a big part of their lives that still impacts them today.

Best I recall that program was ended because it cost so much to operate.
Government paid trucks, drivers, warehouse men, warehouses, distribution facilities, local administrators; there was an industry in commodity transportation and handling that made a ponud of pinto beans cost as much as three pounds of Porterhouse.

Euthanization, eugenics and sterilization of all who fail to meet economic standards is the only solution. Forget all this save the children stuff, they are contributing nothing. Face it in honesty, no one outside of our personal circles of family, religion, or political views should be allowed to reproduce or to influence future society by raising children.
As Jackson said, "Nits make lice" so start by sterilizing all welfare applicants and all their children over the age of twelve. Then euthanize all second time applicants or first time applicants over the age of forty. Set a "poverty level of 100,000 and limit anyone under that level to only one child or two children with IQ levels of 140 or greater.
Reevaluate every five years to determine if adjustments are needed.
Exempt all redheaded people from the controls programs, redheads are to be the most desirable future genetic marker.

The concept is sound. But it would have to be intensively managed and there are a lot of questions left to be answered. One thing I'd implement is that the companies providing the "meals" could only be responsible for X amount of meals per day. This allows them to maintain quality in what they are putting together and ensuring that fresh foods are being delivered. It also opens the door for a new expanding market in which multiple companies could get on board and begin working, thus increasing employment and increasing the use of domestically produced seasonal foods. If you are trying to make them eat healthier, you have to use fresher foods and "Shelf stable milk" should NEVER be an option for anyone. I was given that crap in the Marines and it was death in a box.

I do like the idea though, give them healthier food, with options for consideration of allergies, and cut down on the black market EBT cards.

That was the result back then. But it did create jobs and expand the government bureaucracy.

Sounds familiar. Funny that you call it the only solution.

More like a final solution...


I’d like to think TJM was being a little sarcastic.

The cards are electronically tracable there is no accountability or tractability of raw produce and commodities; they were either "lost" in shipment or spoiled before distribution, while being sold to the intended recipients or being traded for goods or services by the handlers and distributors.

Eliminate these leeches and eliminate the problems, in concert with sterilization of recipients include all applicants for the jobs that would allow abuse of the commodity distribution program. Might not keep them from operating a black market but would keep them from having kids that grow up to work for the government.

TJM,

I give your comments ZERO merit. It's rare I find an individual more extreme in their views that I am. You are one of those. I give your comments no merit not because they differ from my own thoughts, but because that are obviously a pipe dream and far too extreme for 99.9% of the population that isn't mentally ill to embrace.

Not really my dream, simply expanding the commonly expressed views to a logical conclusion.
Reality is there is no solution, just situation management.

Seen a lady on the Rez once pulling out EBT cards like she was playing cards she had a Crown Royal bag of them she had bought from others on the cheap.

Yes EBT is way better then "here eat this" but the commodity damage still exist today and corruption is very common.

All solutions are final. when a problem is solved, there is no more problem. Anything less than final is not a solution, just a continuation of the problem.

What is a heavier burden, SNAP fraud or Military spending fraud/waste/abuse?

Neither is actually a burden, both provide countless jobs and aid the economy and expand the tax base. Both are funded by make believe (fiat) money borrowed from other countries.

I was a Lions International member for 20
years....at Christmas time we would take boxes of food items to needy families.
I was also the garbage man in the same area. If it required cooking or effort, much of it went into the trash.
I once picked up 21 sacks of food items beside a dumpster at a low-income housing where someone was moving out.
Worst thing we can do is make it easy for somebody. A working man dont have it easy.

Making life easy is how the opposition gets their votes.
Down here on the rez the guys who grew up on commodities are said to have "mod bods".

Yeah... Scrap what I said earlier. Railroad cars. We need railroad cars.

Mike

I didn't read anything in the article about meals, just groceries. Recipients can cook without fat and salt if they wish. Be good if a person's doctor could contact the distribution point and eliminate foods that the patient should avoid.

Someone mentioned "well clothed and well fed". I might add gold jewelry, salon fingernails and hair braids, tattoos, SSI and disability income, free Obamacare, Air Jordans, multiple cell phones, designer jeans, and the all important Cadillac Escalade in the driveway. Then they get earned income credit, child care, free lunch and breakfast for the kids, energy assistance, and housing, not to mention law enforcement costs, prison costs, and drug treatment. We all pay for this stuff because many are not working even with jobs going unfilled. They do save money on belts.

I have a relative that her hubby takes less work to not mess up the free money coming in and will put her Mom in the poor house as she gives a tick on a dogs butt competition sucking her Mom dry!

That food that they are proposing to give out, will be like the Meals on Wheels, or that food the senior folks that live at home, and are on long term home care , get. Packaged , boxed up meals, made either in a Hospital or in a factory somewhere. Over salted, bland, tasteless , fruit that got frozen from being too close to the dry ice in the shipping box. Not enough to fill your stomach, dessert will consist of a hard chocolate chip cookie. 1 small container of fat free Milk. Oh, and sometimes the food will be so bad, even the Dog won't eat it !!

A person would be better off, getting meals delivered from the local Restaurant !

Still more then the people paying for it are getting out of it.

I really dont have a problem with anyone getting food stamps as long as the farmers get the tax break where they deduct 20% off gross sales when they sell to a cooperative. that puts there tax burden at zero!

Sounds like incentive to get a job to me then.

Be careful where you say it , but oh so true

to bad it happens all over not just on the Rez

That’s true.

Getting a job when the person is 90 years old , is going to be a bit difficult ...

For sure I ran a Schwan's truck until I got into the Sheriff's Office and that was the monthly trip to both Reservations on the 11th of every month I have a lot of good friends up that way!

Should pass a drug test to get anything

X2
the faster they print money into oblivion the faster we can have a civil war and try and get things back to reality.... sadly it takes oppr
ession ,genocide, starvation, and war, study history!

the money isnt borrowed .. mostly just inflated wich oure media says is less than 2% i hate to be a doomsdayer but were looking at some ugly times ahead.. we dont have a fiscally responcible party we have liberals and less liberals..

A lot of "pro poverty" people on this thread. I thought politics were banned? Oh well, I'll throw in my two cents.

Speaking of spending money, current administration budget will be about a trillion dollars in the red YEARLY. I didn't see any increases for poor people.

It's all part of the grand Republican plan: run up debt, declare an emergency, and reduce or eliminate so-called "entitlements" which help out the "poor" (Medicare, Medicade, Social Security). All of which were created by Democrats by the way.

Reminder: Slick Willie was the last President to run a budget surplus.

Rat , what you got against people feeding themselves ?

So you’re making it up. Thats what I thought. You have no idea wha they have planned.

No problem at all, sometimes people need help. What I am against is rich people getting breaks and people in the middle pointing their fingers at the poor.

Yep it's them dang rich people's fault

The problems with most of the proposals made here are that your system would cost more to administer, or else leave people starving in the streets.

Rats, I appreciate your thinking, but if I were you I'd clean up that post of political references.

Jim

It's not the rich people's fault. But why pick on the poor?

How long would they starve in the streets ? Jimmy

How long would they starve in the streets ? Jimmy

I don't get your point.

Giving someone something they did not earn is more likely to destroy them

I want to bring things back around to spending money on poor people. What we spend on the needy is a drop in the bucket. Where is all this money going? A trillion a year in deficits??

Make them line up for their food.Line them up against the wall,and feed them meatballs with a slingshot,like they do in the old age homes.
I think I'll go fry up a mess of Klik.

that is the biggest lie slick willy pulled off!! if we had a budget surplus why didn't the national debt reduce?? the took some numbers that were a little better than last months the multiplied by the spped of light they came up with a surplus... then he played the sacks and all the liberal went to jivin!! keep on jivin dude !!!!
didnt work enough intelligent people in the usa.. proof is in the pudding Trump is the POTUS

Sounds like a lot more fun than our old folks homes!

Nazi in your midst:

from tjm:
Euthanization, eugenics and sterilization of all who fail to meet economic standards is the only solution. Forget all this save the children stuff, they are contributing nothing. Face it in honesty, no one outside of our personal circles of family, religion, or political views should be allowed to reproduce or to influence future society by raising children.
As Jackson said, "Nits make lice" so start by sterilizing all welfare applicants and all their children over the age of twelve. Then euthanize all second time applicants or first time applicants over the age of forty. Set a "poverty level of 100,000 and limit anyone under that level to only one child or two children with IQ levels of 140 or greater.
Reevaluate every five years to determine if adjustments are needed.
Exempt all redheaded people from the controls programs, redheads are to be the most desirable future genetic marker.

^^^ Methinks that Rats! doesn't understand the concept of sarcasm.

Mike

I am out of here, goodnight.
The point I am trying to make is that poor people have it rough, and I have EMPATHY.
I know that many of you are Christians and if you don't have any feelings for the less fortunate then you are not at all like Jesus.

How many are poor because of life choices?

G'niiiiiite

Mike

Classic. Absolutely classic.
I appreciate the "I" statements you made. "I have empathy"...that's great, I applauded you. However, forcing other people to feed someone else at the end of a gun or prison cell isn't empathy. Government is incapable of true empathy, that is only possible in the realm of individuals.
There is a certain amount of waste and fraud that needs to acceptable in any government program. I don't know how to make it the least amount possible. I'm willing to try new things in regards to food stamps. I doubt any tweak will end with people starving to death in the street. If that were to occur, many people would experience true empathy, by feed those hungry people themselves.

I'm back. My point is, for all you fiscal conservatives out there: Anti-poverty measures are but a small part of the budget. Where is the BIG money going? To people who already have plenty. We cannot all be rich, it is impossible.

Been living here the last 40 years working with the people that live here you might have a app for that but I have been living it!

Wow I showed up late for the party. Lol
We could fix a lot if we just sent all the illegal imagrout and groners out of the USA. A LOT OF IT.

There will always be those without money to buy food. It could be for a lot of reasons from just bad luck to irresponsibility to who knows what. It not only affects them but it affects their dependents, and even ME. Yes, me.

People need to eat. They will find food even if comes to stealing it, or stealing whatever to trade for it.

We need a program to keep people fed. It doesn't need to include French wine and Russian caviar. Limit the benefit to necessities. Delivering food boxes involves a lot of extra costs related to logistics. I don't believe it would be cost effective.

Soup kitchens don't make a lot more sense.

I think what we have is along the right track. But, we could do more. Teach the man to fish, so to speak. Offer, or even require training in nutrition, cooking and food economics. That won't save us from the malicious, but, would be sure to help the truly needy.

Keep the needy fed and they have that much less reason to harass me on the street.

We have a local food bank that gives out food during the week many food banks all over SD but like anything else you see abuse there too.

Overall the US gives away billions here and overseas from just people and organization no strings attached.

Yes Law Dog, that is what compassionate people do.

I see people here who despise the hungry. Why is that?

What would Jesus think of that?

Can anyone make a real Dinner for $1.50 to $1.73 ? Those old folks that have their Mortgage paid off, and still living in their own home, don't have it easy. Taxes, Utilities , Homeowners Insurance, Food and Miscellaneous expenses ; eat up most of their retirement check each Month. Then , the Government actually expects people to buy food that is healthy and tastes good. Those stores, they know when the food stamps come in. They jack their prices up that week, suckering the customers into spending more than what they normally would. But, when the Refrigerator is empty, people got to eat.

If people are so against the poor getting Food Stamps, would they be against the Government eliminating Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, SSI , SSDI, and Veterans benefits ??

Well, why not?? They are all expenditures that could be eliminated.

You are confused . It's not the governments responsibilty . It's family and the church who should not only help those in need but teach them to care for themselves.

Thanks for the backup Canvasback2.

A little inspiration for the rest of you:

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " Huber H. Humphrey

Like I said, people make poor choices. Stay out of trouble, finish HS, don't get pregnant or get someone pregnant, don't do drugs. Live within your means and work hard, save your money. If most everyone did this we could take care of the ones that can't take care of themselves.

Actually it wasn't Jackson, but a guy named John Milton Chivington. Google the "Sand creek Massacre" to see what a fine specimen he was.

Cut taxes for those at the top and leave the lazy poor to step up or starve.

REALLY?????????

And what are people in need , to do when they have NO FAMILY?? And the Churches in the Town are NOT in the Food Pantry business?? None of the Churches in my Town are giving out food!

Rat , since you're worried what would Jesus think , remember 2 Thessalonians 3:10

Get a job man and help yourself .......don't expect your neighbor to feed you

Thank you Margaret Sanger........you got first........

Per the constitution: "a government exists for the benefit of the people". We are not an "every man for himself society". We are all in this together. It is mean-spirited to look down on someone who needs food.

Let's see a vote of who wants food denied to the hungry.

I'm not buying into Jesus would let people would let people starve: Matthew 14:13-21

Tell that to the 90 year old Woman who has just gone through her 2nd bout with Cancer and is now home with Hospice Care. Tell that to her 94 year old World War 2 Veteran Husband, who himself is barely getting around with one of those 4 wheeled strollers; but who refuses to leave her side and put her in a Nursing Home. Those are people that are at the end of their lives. How about showing a little compassion for once !!

The purpose of the constitution is to limit the power of the federal government...........not to feed people

If you cant get a hot meal in 'merica you got nothing. You have bad neighbors.

I hijacked this thread and I am NOT sorry about that. We talked about the Constitution and Jesus. We are all in this together. My beef is that being mean to people who need help is not productive. Give help where you can. Why would you be envious of someone who has nothing? I am asking you to be kind in your actions and thoughts.

There is no compassion in giving when it comes from government taxing others

Charity is a personal value and should come from your own resources


How compassionate are you canvasback? Ratman ?

And to protect the freedom of speech. If corporations are given individual rights surely a vote in support of a politician who shows empathy and compassion is nothing more than an individuals expression of free speech.

I have helped bring Companies into my Town that have created JOBS for people.

If we wait for the fed.gov to fix our problems we could be waiting for a long time. life is what you make of it.

I don't get it gray dog. I am for freedom of speech.

Quote from you: "If corporations are given individual rights surely a vote in support of a politician who shows empathy and compassion is nothing more than an individuals expression of free speech."

Can a corporation be jailed?

No, but the executives of the Corporation can be.

Was this an act for compassion or an act for compensation ?

X2

I think TJM was serious ==>
Quote from his reply: "Euthanization, eugenics and sterilization of all who fail to meet economic standards is the only solution. Forget all this save the children stuff, they are contributing nothing. Face it in honesty, no one outside of our personal circles of family, religion, or political views should be allowed to reproduce or to influence future society by raising children.
As Jackson said, "Nits make lice" so start by sterilizing all welfare applicants and all their children over the age of twelve. Then euthanize all second time applicants or first time applicants over the age of forty. Set a "poverty level of 100,000 and limit anyone under that level to only one child or two children with IQ levels of 140 or greater.
Reevaluate every five years to determine if adjustments are needed.
Exempt all redheaded people from the controls programs, redheads are to be the most desirable future genetic marker."

It took a long time to write all of that.

In case you haven't noticed, I am strongly defensive about people who cannot provide for themselves. Have fun picking on them.

No they can't and seldom are those who head them. Incorporating is an excellent shield against personal responsibility for the decision makers even when those decisions are criminal.

\

Of course. But I've also read more about this tonight. Then plan is to eliminate 1/2 of the EBT benefit, and replace it with healthy foods. You will get a box delivered to you that contains milk, juice, canned veggies, rice, beans, cheese, etc. and will have half of your allotment of stamps still available to use as you see fit.

Most 90 year olds get far less than $90 a month, so it will not affect them, only people with 7 kids, 7 baby daddies and no job.

Well, my memory is that I saw it attributed to Andy J during the Creek war which would have been maybe 50 years prior to John Miltons little party, so I had sorta presumed Chivington just quoted Jackson; they were pretty much two of a kind concerning native rights.
But a little web research shows that "Nits will be Lice,.." appeared in various writings as early as 1683 in connection with the Irish Rebellion and credited to Oliver Cromwell himself. It then is possible that both th Great Injun Killers quoted old Oliver and equally possible that the expression was simply a common place expression at the time. I did find this too "president Andrew Jackson said, “If you pursue a wolf, you have to kill the whelps too.” "

Ole chivington, he done his deal just 45 miles n of me. Nothing to be proud of. We shoot yotes just outside the fence, that place is still very much alive. Not in a good way really.........if you wanna see some spooks thats a pretty good place to start....

Whatever. My whole deal is please don't pick on poor people. I have been there and I did not like it. Still poor but doing better.

If you are jealous of the poor and hungry I feel sorry for you.

Yes and no.
The arguments both for and against all social welfare programs are circular and defeat themselves; as long as you have less fortunate people the problem will exist.
Any of those social engineering routes will end up at the same place, yours and theirs are the same.

Twas somewhat tongue in cheek though.

When the more fortunate supply the less fortunate through charity everyone has a net gain. When a government becomes involved in this exchange everyone will suffer a net loss and thieves will be created.

I don't think anyone here wants to see people who truly can't help themselves starve. What most of us want is for people who are perfectly capable of working to work for their own living rather than sponging off the rest of society.

Most people on welfare and foodstamps are capable of providing for themselves, to at least some extent, they just don't have enough moral character to provide for themselves, when they don't have to.

As to eugenics, people can be genetically improved, by selective breeding. It's a true fact that makes almost all of us uncomfortable. The wrong people have most of the children in our society. People on public assistance have a much higher reproduction rate than productive people. Adults on public assistance should not be allowed to procreate, while receiving public assistance. They are much more likely to pass on both poor nature and nature. Birth control implants should be a condition of receiving public assistance as an adult. This will likely never happen here in the US.

A strong effort should be made to mentor and educate children on public assistance to help them become capable of providing for themselves.

One of the greatest things you can do for another human being is to motivate them to reach their full potential to do well.

Keith

Not jealous at all, but completely tired of buying food for those that can buy it for themselves, Like the girl I worked with that would bring in $100 worth of cookies and cakes for her coworkers everytime her food stamps came in, then be begging for $10 from everyone in the store the last week of the month@!

From KeithC:

"As to eugenics, people can be genetically improved, by selective breeding. It's a true fact that makes almost all of us uncomfortable. The wrong people have most of the children in our society. People on public assistance have a much higher reproduction rate than productive people. Adults on public assistance should not be allowed to procreate, while receiving public assistance. They are much more likely to pass on both poor nature and nature. Birth control implants should be a condition of receiving public assistance as an adult.
This will likely never happen here in the US."

No kidding Keith ==> "it will likely never happen". You may not know it but you have the Nazi thing going on.

And it could argued that those on public assistance are more genetically advanced than those who provide the assistance. Exerting less effort to achieve the same gain illustrates higher intelligence.

Rats you seem to be a genuinely compassionate person. Very admirable. You need to channel that compassion and empathy into helping others PERSONALLY. Not through federal government and harangin those that want the federal government to act within its mean and capabilities.

I most definitely do not have any sympathy for the Nazis or for liberals, who attack others with emotion laced words like Nazi, because they have difficulty forming a valid, intelligent argument.

Keith

Nazi is acronym for socialists in Germany, liberal is pc for socialist in USA; can some one explain the difference between one socialist and another socialist?

Go Rats! You tell them.

Before federal government assistance, private charity was not doing the job. If private charity had been taking care of the poor everywhere in the US, government never would have had to get involved.

Private charities don't have the resources or human power required. Ask any private charity--they're all looking, and some are begging, for more volunteers.

Like it or not, government must be involved. I agree with Rats that a decent, compassionate people take care of their poor, weak, and disabled.

Jim

In the words of Jesus Christ.."Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debt as we have forgiven our debtors."

When I was a child , The poor were skinny, nuff said.

Describe "poor", What level of "poorness" do we compassionate people reward? At what level of income do we get "uncompassionate". I have been around the country and I have seen a lot of "unfortunate " people but very few actually "poor".

I think it may have been more like government wanted people to believe they were God. Seems to be working.
If it were put forward that the church would handle the donations and government would handle the distribution,or vice versa,wouldn't be long before someone was yelling separation of church and state.
True charity comes from within. Forced charity as taxation for welfare is nothing more than theft.

What an interesting thread. It's saddening that there are so many uninformed opinions.

I am a benefits fraud investigator. I love my job. Nothing makes me happier than substantiating an allegation.

You no what slows me down..... jealous people who are mad at poor people making baseless allegations.


A culture is judged by how they treat those (and view those) in need, the less fortunate whether their fault or not.

I see horrible cases everyday that would make your head explode and yet....it still hasn't dampened my compassion.