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Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Kansas Rook] #6160250
02/17/18 12:58 AM
02/17/18 12:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,241
Indiana
K
keystone Offline
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keystone  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,241
Indiana
Originally Posted By: Kansas Rook
Originally Posted By: RETIREDDUDE
WHAT CAUSES THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS???????
When people go back to parenting their children instead of keeping them drugged to control bad behavior, maybe then the number of these shootings will drop. When I was a child we didn't get drugs when we did something wrong we were punished. And I don't want to hear "they won't let me correct my kids". You don't have to beat a child to teach them right from wrong.

But Prozac, Zoloft and Luvox are not the answer. Just a few examples.

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.



Ok so you propose that the meds are the cause. Can you prove that or just create a correlation? Who is to say that the mental instability that lead these young people to the doctors that prescribed the mess didn’t cause the behavior. Basing beliefs on loose correlations is dangerous. Example. The more churches a community has the more incidents of violence in that community. This is a fact. However when you look closer larger cities have more church’s thus more people and more violent acts. It’s has nothing to do with the church’s. Kids have been on Ritalin since I was in school in the 70’s and things weren’t getting shot up.


I don’t think the pharmaceuticals can be ruled out as evidence if in fact all these madmen are on certain medications.

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160257
02/17/18 01:08 AM
02/17/18 01:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
X2 retireddude...........prescribed meds are given out like candy and it's perfectly legal . Many prescribers make an exceptional living


Report a post club - Non member


Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160265
02/17/18 01:16 AM
02/17/18 01:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,241
Indiana
K
keystone Offline
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keystone  Offline
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Posts: 3,241
Indiana
Rather than rely on the federal government to solve the problem, what about leaving it to the local level of government?

If a local school district wants to pay for armed guards in the schools, and tax the property owners accordingly, why aren't they already free to do so?

Jim

I agree this would be better handled through state and local govt, but i also feel like the federal govt has forced its way into the public school systems so much that they shouldn’t be able to get out of this. They wanna be the boss until it cost money!

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160291
02/17/18 02:48 AM
02/17/18 02:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
T
tjm Offline
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tjm  Offline
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SWMo.
BAN SCHOOLS

problem solved

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: tjm] #6160304
02/17/18 03:17 AM
02/17/18 03:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: tjm
BAN SCHOOLS

problem solved



There are still several "one room" school houses in this area... No idea how old those buildings are. But I would bet they were funded by the members of each community.

We were educating children long before the feds and Dept. of Education came along. Not sure when and why we handed control of the whole mess to bureaucrats hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160306
02/17/18 03:23 AM
02/17/18 03:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
T
tjm Offline
trapper
tjm  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
One room school and voluntary education has never attracted any mass killings that I'm aware of.

Compulsory attendance and consolidated schools are a large part of the socialist design of a new world. Force the genius to learn at the same rate and level of an imbecile and give both equal honors.

The school I have the most memories of was actually three rooms, 1-4, 5--8 and a lunch room. Had about forty five students at the time. But Mama taught in a couple of one room schools.

Last edited by tjm; 02/17/18 03:27 AM.
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160317
02/17/18 06:47 AM
02/17/18 06:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks
Your kid is much more likely to die in a car crash. Quit obsessing. Arm yourself. You folks are letting yourselves be led around like puppies getting lead broke. INSANE PEOPLE DO INSANE THINGS. LAWS WON"T STOP THEM. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PREVENTING OF MASS SHOOTINGS.

Last edited by danny clifton; 02/17/18 08:42 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Teallbrook] #6160347
02/17/18 07:54 AM
02/17/18 07:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,467
Iowa
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trapdog1 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,467
Iowa
Originally Posted By: Teallbrook
I would think that keeping guns out of the hands of mentally ill people would be a start.


Sounds great, but who gets to define this?

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160396
02/17/18 09:24 AM
02/17/18 09:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
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EdP  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
Like any complex issue there is not just a single cause but rather a number of contributing causes. That also means there is not a single solution. This is well recognized by most folks both on the political right and the left. However, many on the left are anti-2nd amendment and are using the issue to again try to disarm the populace. They know it will not stop the shooting but they don't want any other solution implemented because then they will loose their most effective talking point. This approach ensures our children remain at risk.

The answer to this is what James, Keystone, and I have advocated in this thread - implement deterrents on the local level. Parents need to challenge their school boards, superintendents, principles and administrators to take action to make sure it can't happen IN THEIR SCHOOL. Stop expecting a national solution and implement what will work for your community school. Protect your children.

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: tjm] #6160411
02/17/18 09:44 AM
02/17/18 09:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218
MI
lebowski Offline
trapper
lebowski  Offline
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MI
Great insight-thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted By: tjm
BAN SCHOOLS

problem solved



"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

--The Dude
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: danny clifton] #6160414
02/17/18 09:48 AM
02/17/18 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218
MI
lebowski Offline
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lebowski  Offline
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MI
Yet the data show they happen at much higher rates in this country




Originally Posted By: danny clifton
..THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PREVENTING OF MASS SHOOTINGS.


"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

--The Dude
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160452
02/17/18 10:32 AM
02/17/18 10:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
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D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks

Lebowski you need to volunteer to confiscate privately owned firearms.

P.S. up date your statistics chart to include assault with any weapon.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: trapdog1] #6160510
02/17/18 11:11 AM
02/17/18 11:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
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Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
Your kid is much more likely to die in a car crash. Quit obsessing. Arm yourself. You folks are letting yourselves be led around like puppies getting lead broke. INSANE PEOPLE DO INSANE THINGS. LAWS WON"T STOP THEM. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PREVENTING OF MASS SHOOTINGS.


I'm in Dannys camp on this one! If you want to outlaw guns, you better get you a horse, caus cars are next.....or at least should be with that mentality!


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160524
02/17/18 11:24 AM
02/17/18 11:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,890
eastern WV
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Ridge Runner1960 Offline
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Posts: 3,890
eastern WV

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: lebowski] #6160538
02/17/18 11:36 AM
02/17/18 11:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,367
Texas
J
jtg Offline
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Texas
The liberals like to use the chart below. Many of those other countries have banded guns so they use bats, knifes, cars ect...
The violent crime rate is lower here. Check it out.
https://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/violent-crime-us-abroad/






Originally Posted By: lebowski
Yet the data show they happen at much higher rates in this country




Originally Posted By: danny clifton
..THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PREVENTING OF MASS SHOOTINGS.

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: lebowski] #6160550
02/17/18 11:53 AM
02/17/18 11:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,459
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Offline
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white marlin  Offline
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Posts: 6,459
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
Originally Posted By: lebowski
Yet the data show they happen at much higher rates in this country




Originally Posted By: danny clifton
..THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PREVENTING OF MASS SHOOTINGS.


got a chart on the relative Freedom or Constitutional protections of those countries, versus the US?

for example, Singapore endorses public "caning" for minor offenses.

How much Freedom does your average Chinese person have?

Last edited by white marlin; 02/17/18 03:27 PM.
Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: EdP] #6160563
02/17/18 12:17 PM
02/17/18 12:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,056
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,056
Ky
Originally Posted By: EdP
I would like to see the issue of school shootings solved on a local level. Local school systems are where the responsibility lies in providing on-site deterrents. We can protect the people who work in our courthouses via armed guards and x ray machines checking every person who enters. We can protect those who fly commercial airlines. We can protect workplaces and the folks who work there (I had to go through explosive and metal detectors at work for 30 years). Yet we cannot or will not protect our greatest resource, our children.

By trying to solve the issue on a federal level we limit the ideas, methods, and means to that which congress and the president will agree on. Instead, let's have more people involved finding and implementing solutions that fit their particular situation. Continuing in the mindset that we need a national solution is leaving our children at risk. Local leaders need to step up and say "not at my school," and take the actions necessary to protect the children in their school(s).


X2

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6160567
02/17/18 12:19 PM
02/17/18 12:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,056
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Ky
Originally Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE
yes and also there are a lot of unanswered questions yet

how did the shooter gain access to a school wearing a gas mask and weapons , when he had been expelled

why didn't the FBI take reports seriously

why didn't the school secure it's building

there is some definite negligence on the schools part for not having a secure building or someone let the shooter in in which case there can be 2 trials for 17 counts of murder.

survalence video should clear up many of these questions , and if no such video exists , that in it's self is a liability.

we have gotten to a time when you secure your building

you cover all the doors with cameras



any good plan starts with creating the barriers to entry to know when an entry is happening , the intelligence to know who and where , then the response

we had the law in the state legislature this year that would have allowed carry on school grounds that would have given people the potential to shoot back .

and everyone should know that it is withing the power of the state legislature to grant that power to CCL holders who have passed a background check

we do not need to wait for some federal law to change , federal gun free school zone law does not prohibit the state from granting exceptions to those licensed to carry.

so talk with your state rep and senator , in Wis it was SB169.



Spot on

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: Fur Hanger] #6160694
02/17/18 03:06 PM
02/17/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
T
tjm Offline
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tjm  Offline
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SWMo.
Concentration of many targets in a small confinement sure makes it easy for the nuts. If you insist on incarcerating your children, you really should consider de-consolidating and dispersal.
It looks very much like the kids are meant to be a target of mass killings, why else the overcrowding of "consolidation"?

Re: Mass shooting prevention [Re: keystone] #6160702
02/17/18 03:18 PM
02/17/18 03:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
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walleye101 Offline
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MN
Originally Posted By: keystone


I agree this would be better handled through state and local govt, but i also feel like the federal govt has forced its way into the public school systems so much that they shouldn’t be able to get out of this. They wanna be the boss until it cost money!


Keystone,
Where do people get the silly idea that the federal government can pay for anything? The federal government does not have money, they use yours and mine to pay for things, so federal funding just comes from a different one of our pockets than state and local.

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