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#6167423 - 02/23/18 09:57 AM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
The Beav Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 14083
Loc: Wisconsin
Last season I lost 5 coyotes to BAD failure. 3 happened right In front of me.
I use the swaged type BAD.
This year I caught 33 coyotes In CRs. Never had a BAD fail this season. But they did work on all the deer catches.
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#6167673 - 02/23/18 01:33 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: The Beav]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 16407
Loc: Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: The Beav

This year I caught 33 coyotes In CRs. Never had a BAD fail this season. But they did work on all the deer catches.


Who's product and what poundage ?

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#6167720 - 02/23/18 02:25 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
The Beav Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 14083
Loc: Wisconsin
Rally Hess 380Lb BADs Crush On type I don't trust those S hook types.
The first 40+ Inches 1X19X3/32s. A barrel swivel and the rest of the CR 7X7 X 3/32s, Toss the loop end after a catch and buy new loop ends and re use the tag end.
Haven't had a chew out or BAD that went wrong on a coyote. And they preformed like they were suppose to on the deer I caught.


Edited by The Beav (02/23/18 02:25 PM)
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#6168030 - 02/23/18 07:31 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: Michael Morris]
~ADC~ Offline
The Count

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 5828
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Michael Morris
Originally Posted By: trappergbus
Don't get me started on Michigan's lame CR laws.......We need efficient tools to manage coyotes!!


Who is it? MI, MO, WI and PA? Our CR regs are crap


Mi are far worse than the other CR states. Their CR's can't close tighter than 4.25 or 4.5" can't recall exactly, but its not good.

Deer stops set at 2.5" will still kill coyotes if you can use a real snare around them. They will release a foot caught deer too. A neck caught deer, unless its a monster and hits hard enough to break the BAD on the first lunge is still going to be there when you get there. If you can't handle that you best not set many snares or CR's.
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#6168050 - 02/23/18 07:45 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
trappergbus Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 3543
Loc: Southern Michigan
It's 4.25, It just plane sucks. All that's needed is a Bad period game over. Ya outa see what they do to a nice red fox.. Who thinks this stuff up??
_________________________
Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..

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#6168158 - 02/23/18 09:22 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
Jpwilson Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/11/15
Posts: 34
Loc: upstate, NY
I remember reading, Craig O'gorman wrote that a coyote on an 8 foot run can at times exert up to 400 lbs. of pressure. different coyotes have different personalities so I'm sure that varies by the animal. A 285 lb break away seems like this could be very common place unfortunately.

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#6169602 - 02/25/18 08:57 AM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
H380 Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 363
Loc: Alberta
I use Martys BADs and they are weak in comparison to what you are using .. weak as in the different methods of posting opening weights . Ive used his 265s for 3 years and find they open at 126 on the US scale , Im jumping to his 385 s, they open at 236 on US scale . Its a wonder we held anything when using the skinny ones . He says to overcrimp them , teardrop shaped , maybe thats what saved us , but after losing a bunch this year I'll risk the bigger ones . These are all with kill springs , sorry no experience with out one . Needs to be a standardized scale . As for deer catches , you are right , even these light weight ones kill deer . Im not bashing Marty or his products , I know him and he's a good guy .. He has the game figured out , just a different way of measuring stuff . I get stuff from Kris at Dakotaline too , and the 285# BADs from them are MUCH heavier than Martys 385s.


Edited by H380 (02/25/18 09:00 AM)

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#6169942 - 02/25/18 12:51 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
Mark Steck Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 37
Loc: South Dakota
The thing with BADís is they need to be tested the same way each time. Itís hard to compare testing on a machine to that of an actual catch. Yet ďlabĒ testing is all we have. At Dakotaline we use a straight pull with a 3Ē loop. Yes there is some variance between tests but not a lot. Our testing machine is very close to the one the one State of ND uses. They seem to be out in front of other States

If we were to do a straight pull of our 285 BAD without a snare loop the BAD would start to open around 160 pounds and be fully open at 170 pounds. I know there is debate about whether a straight pull is comparable to an animal lunging? I believe youíd need a highly qualified physics expert to settle this. For consistent measurement some States are mirroring what ND has.

Raymond Thompson must of either had physics expertise or just had a good mind. As I recall he used a machine with a pendulum type weight. I canít even begin to understand his thinking on it. There is a federal study from the 1970ís that was done. It focused on snares and deer. I canít seem to find it right now. One of the findings was that a longer an animal is caught, the more stress is put on BADs causing them to slowly open. The quicker you kill your coyotes the better. In cable restraint states, the earlier you check the better.

Dakotaline will be offering a 350# S-BAD this year. Weíve had 350# J-BADS for a long time but the S-BAD is a better fit for camlocks. Of course the heavier the BAD the likelihood of holding a leg caught deer increases. Personally I will never go higher than 285#. My coyotes are smaller and my laws allow for a quick kill. Plus, I am no cowboy. I donít have the knack for wrestling a live deer (I have in the past and am pretty much wasted the rest of the day).

Variables
There are moving dynamics when relying on BADs. Two winters ago I caught a buck by two front legs. My only solution was to give him a firm crack on the forehead and quickly remove the snare. He wandered away as did I.

The wire we use for our BADís at Dakotaline comes from the same company and source every time. They tell us that there will always be, although minimal, some variance within the batch of wire.

All BADs need to be applied with a tool. Whether a wire BAD or crimp on BAD there will always be minimal variations in the application of the BAD.

Will your caught critter run down an incline?

Testing done by the North Dakota GFP, and the State university showed a higher degree of inconsistency on the crimp-on BADs as compared to the wire BADís. They have provided no explanation for this. Perhaps some of this could be related to variations in cable?

I doubt anyone will ever come up with the perfect BAD simply because of all the variables involved in the field. I will always uses BADís. They work for me whether itís an unexpected heard of cattle or a yearling deer.
Mark

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#6170159 - 02/25/18 04:32 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: Jpwilson]
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 544
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Jpwilson
I remember reading, Craig O'gorman wrote that a coyote on an 8 foot run can at times exert up to 400 lbs. of pressure. different coyotes have different personalities so I'm sure that varies by the animal. A 285 lb break away seems like this could be very common place unfortunately.


You always hear: use a longer cable extension to let them get a run at it to set the snare. That may good if you aren't using a BAD but if you are I wouldn't opt to go with longer cable using BAD.

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#6170172 - 02/25/18 04:39 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
trappergbus Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 3543
Loc: Southern Michigan
At my age I'd rather loose a couple coyotes than deal with a big cantankerous buck or doe. I use your S hook BADs Mark, had a couple close calls on yotes but no losses. Some of the yotes here are big in my grand CR state... Keep up the great work!

Silk I realize what your saying but all my CRs are 10 footers, I lost more yotes with short Crs than long, doesn't make sense but is what it is. All have barrel swivels and BADs.


Edited by trappergbus (02/25/18 04:45 PM)
_________________________
Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..

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#6170959 - 02/26/18 10:23 AM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 544
Loc: Nebraska
Trappergbus,

I was surprised too see in the study how many pounds of pressure a coyote can apply with longer cable so I guess that's why I said that. I've always just used 8ft. of cable nothing shorter or longer so I don't have experience with using longer cable but would hesitate to do that just because of study results.

I've always been partial to the crimped ferrule BAD and I think it's only rated for 270 lbs. The S hook might be what helps you at 10ft because it's rated for 285 lbs. So that might be factor when deciding what to do too.

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#6171321 - 02/26/18 05:34 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: Mark Steck]
H380 Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 363
Loc: Alberta
Originally Posted By: Mark Steck
The thing with BADís is they need to be tested the same way each time. Itís hard to compare testing on a machine to that of an actual catch. Yet ďlabĒ testing is all we have. At Dakotaline we use a straight pull with a 3Ē loop. Yes there is some variance between tests but not a lot. Our testing machine is very close to the one the one State of ND uses. They seem to be out in front of other States

If we were to do a straight pull of our 285 BAD without a snare loop the BAD would start to open around 160 pounds and be fully open at 170 pounds. I know there is debate about whether a straight pull is comparable to an animal lunging? I believe youíd need a highly qualified physics expert to settle this. For consistent measurement some States are mirroring what ND has.

Raymond Thompson must of either had physics expertise or just had a good mind. As I recall he used a machine with a pendulum type weight. I canít even begin to understand his thinking on it. There is a federal study from the 1970ís that was done. It focused on snares and deer. I canít seem to find it right now. One of the findings was that a longer an animal is caught, the more stress is put on BADs causing them to slowly open. The quicker you kill your coyotes the better. In cable restraint states, the earlier you check the better.

Dakotaline will be offering a 350# S-BAD this year. Weíve had 350# J-BADS for a long time but the S-BAD is a better fit for camlocks. Of course the heavier the BAD the likelihood of holding a leg caught deer increases. Personally I will never go higher than 285#. My coyotes are smaller and my laws allow for a quick kill. Plus, I am no cowboy. I donít have the knack for wrestling a live deer (I have in the past and am pretty much wasted the rest of the day).

Variables
There are moving dynamics when relying on BADs. Two winters ago I caught a buck by two front legs. My only solution was to give him a firm crack on the forehead and quickly remove the snare. He wandered away as did I.

The wire we use for our BADís at Dakotaline comes from the same company and source every time. They tell us that there will always be, although minimal, some variance within the batch of wire.

All BADs need to be applied with a tool. Whether a wire BAD or crimp on BAD there will always be minimal variations in the application of the BAD.

Will your caught critter run down an incline?

Testing done by the North Dakota GFP, and the State university showed a higher degree of inconsistency on the crimp-on BADs as compared to the wire BADís. They have provided no explanation for this. Perhaps some of this could be related to variations in cable?

I doubt anyone will ever come up with the perfect BAD simply because of all the variables involved in the field. I will always uses BADís. They work for me whether itís an unexpected heard of cattle or a yearling deer.
Mark
Thanx for the reply Mark and yes there needs to be a stabndardized method and test for BADs so they can be compared . Thanx also for the great product lines and service .

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#6171467 - 02/26/18 07:20 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: silkyplainscoyot]
trappergbus Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 3543
Loc: Southern Michigan
I understand your reasoning.
_________________________
Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..

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#6218293 - 04/15/18 03:13 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 16407
Loc: Central Ohio
I agree with the poster that pointed out a BAD on a long snare CAN BE a real problem !

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#6219161 - 04/16/18 12:44 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
Gerald Schmitt Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 101
Loc: Minnesota
I want to see the video of Mark Steck wrestling a live deer!

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#6219179 - 04/16/18 01:10 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
trappergbus Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 3543
Loc: Southern Michigan
LOL that would be cool! It would be very educational..
_________________________
Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..

Top
#6219465 - 04/16/18 08:50 PM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
H380 Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 363
Loc: Alberta
I was gonna change to all 385 # BADs from Marty but after talking with him I have changed my mind and will stick with the light weight 265s he offers . I will overcrimp them like he says and risk losing the odd coyote . My snare setup for next year is totally different than the past tho , and I am running a 5/64 lock on 1/16" 1x19 cable from Marty because it is much stronger than my former cable . The oversize lock closes like lightning and grips tight with no slip at all , a buddy used this setup this past year and all his catches were DOA with it . Im also trying a few sets with magnum springs where Ive had troubles in the past with getting a quick kill . Hope this ends the chew out problem I had on a couple , pretty hard to chew out or open a BAD if they are dead .

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#6219639 - 04/17/18 07:00 AM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY]
late bite Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/20/14
Posts: 349
Loc: S.W. Michigan
H380 can you explain the "overcrimp"

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#6219666 - 04/17/18 07:42 AM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: late bite]
H380 Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 363
Loc: Alberta
Originally Posted By: late bite
H380 can you explain the "overcrimp"
Yup, instead of crimping the s hook into a nice round circle it should be shaped like a teardrop . Be careful not to crimp so hard that it distorts the shape of the teardrop and end passes the main shank and is bent , this make cause breakage . I had a couple coyotes open BADs last year as a result of hitting snare hard and a few more that resulted because they were just plain in there too long and not quick kills . I did purchase some 385s to use on steep hillsides where gravity is working in their favor to open the BAD .. A magnum spring is going on those as well . Marty said be careful where I use the 385 as they will definitely hold deer .


Edited by H380 (04/17/18 07:43 AM)

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#6219682 - 04/17/18 08:00 AM Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: Gerald Schmitt]
andy weiser Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 4135
Loc: montana
Originally Posted By: Gerald Schmitt
I want to see the video of Mark Steck wrestling a live deer!


Me too Gerald!!
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