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Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail #6181472
03/08/18 06:42 PM
03/08/18 06:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 793
Norborne MO
B
BBarnes Offline OP
trapper
BBarnes  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 793
Norborne MO
What's everyone's opinion or experience?


thanks
B

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6181492
03/08/18 07:02 PM
03/08/18 07:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,444
Wisconsin
Muskrat Offline
trapper
Muskrat  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,444
Wisconsin
You're probably going to get lots and lots of sharetime on this one. I'm on year 32 with longtail Go Devils, by choice. I know what I want out of a mud motor and the longtail satisfies that need.

And you'll have fellas who will say surface drives do everything they want and need.

I'd suggest you find some folks who have 'em and beg for ride alongs. A couple different longtail setups, and a couple different surface drive setups.

Then once you decide on which one, do your homework on the best boat (length/width/weight) that will be served by the best horsepower.

Too many fellas I've known do not take that advice, think they've got it all from reading this and that on the internet, make their purchase, then play the bumpup game a year later or maybe even sooner.

IMO, two rigs will best serve the water trapper. And that's what I've got. From these 32 years of running longtails, I've settled on the Go Devil 9 horse Honda longtail on the back of a 14' Alumacraft V-bow. You can get more payload into the front end of a V-bow and still get it up on plane than you can a flat. Real nice marsh/small river rig.

The other rig is a 16' Alumacraft T16XL that has the transom beefed up to 20" with aluminum plating. On that sets a 35 horse Go Devil longtail. Lightweight boat, plenty of payload in the front end, and that 35 pops it up on plane right now.

Go Devil is all I've ever run, and have had no problems with the rigs all these years except once a 23 horse came with the wrong fitting to the tank and I had to replace that. Otherwise, regular maintenance and keep the prop out of the sand and you've got a rig that will provide you with years of dependability.

Go Devil motors I've owned: 5 hp, 5.5 hp, 8 hp, 13 hp, 18 hp, 23 hp, and the 35s I've got now, the other on an 18' foot flat for duck hunting and fishing.

Look 'em all over. Talk with fellas that own and run 'em . . a lot. And listen to the others who post on here and why they like their rigs.

Just don't rush into it. And have fun!

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6181508
03/08/18 07:27 PM
03/08/18 07:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn
Different rigs for different applications. I bought my small SPS longtail in the summer of "13" and it serves me well on small water. I would like a bigger rig too, and haven't bought one yet. Bigger water takes a bigger motor. Surface drives are spendier and a lot more hp than my little rig. Money was an object, still is .


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6181741
03/08/18 11:19 PM
03/08/18 11:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613
Northern Missouri
Northmocats Offline
trapper
Northmocats  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613
Northern Missouri
My buddy has a surface drive we run in the Grand River . It wont set speed records but is a decent setup for shallow stuff.

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6181752
03/08/18 11:34 PM
03/08/18 11:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn
I've picked up an old 48 x 16 riveted Jon I'd like to put something bigger on. That would let me run the Rainy River safely, I cant do it with my little rat rig...here is a pic of the small rig.
Shallow water, small waves only with this 14' Montgomery Wards type boat.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6181759
03/08/18 11:40 PM
03/08/18 11:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn

That little 6.5 predator wont quite jump a beaver dam with the boat near empty, I had about 40lbs of gear just ahead of my handhold.

This little rig is nimble, and agile. I have picked my way through a lot of spots with it and a bigger rig might not do in the tight areas .


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6181897
03/09/18 04:20 AM
03/09/18 04:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,946
South metro, MN
C
Calvin Offline
trapper
Calvin  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,946
South metro, MN
What are your applications? How long are you running it per day, how far... and how much does turning/maneuverability factor into your needs?

You can save a few bucks with the longtails but they can wear a guy out a lot faster and you lose the turning ability (which may or may not be an issue for you).

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6181912
03/09/18 05:51 AM
03/09/18 05:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
Has anyone tried the scavengers?

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182249
03/09/18 12:25 PM
03/09/18 12:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,386
williams,mn
Getting wore out from running a longtail while rat trapping is an issue.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: trapper les] #6182277
03/09/18 12:48 PM
03/09/18 12:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 793
Norborne MO
B
BBarnes Offline OP
trapper
BBarnes  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 793
Norborne MO
Thanks Muskrat and Les for the info and photos. Maybe someone will weigh in on the Surface drive. What I want to do is put it on a 14-16 foot v bottom boat and run a secondary river and channels off that river. My thought right now is to strictly water trap only.


Thanks
Ben

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182317
03/09/18 01:16 PM
03/09/18 01:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613
Northern Missouri
Northmocats Offline
trapper
Northmocats  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613
Northern Missouri
Some of the surface drives you can get a clutch button so the prop isnt running full time or when you want to slow it down. Without the clutch the prop runs full time and you have to trim up to stop. My buddy's surface drive is a full time one. He has to Trim up (electric trim) to slow down and it will spray a good path of water. With the trim button its a learning curve, but I would think its less tiring then a long tail but haven't driven a long tail so cant say 100%. The electric trim was an option on his surface drive also along with clutch package for disengaging prop. Few options to think about if your looking at surface drives.
Turning around in a tight narrow spot with a bunch of stumps and logs could be trickier with a long tail IMO, but either mud motor would be suited well for the crooked river or other small tributaries down your way. Good luck if you end up getting one keep us informed.

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182352
03/09/18 01:59 PM
03/09/18 01:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,405
USA-WI
K
Kre Offline
trapper
Kre  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,405
USA-WI
I have a surface drive. But, I have a boat made for a surface drive and I'm not sure how one would perform on a boat made for an outboard. My 23 hp SD pushed my 1548 at least 20 mph, which is nice because I have to make longer runs. I can adjust it so the prop barely licks the water when I'm setting and checking. It just crawls along which is nice.

If you're going to be using a regular boat, designed for an outboard, you probably should go w/ a longtail. But, my only experience is w/ SD, so what do I know?

I can say, I will never go back to an outboard for trapping. I'm done w/ sheared pins and busted up props. Air cooled is very nice.

Going on a ride along w/ someone is a good idea. I know it's intimidating when you don't have experience with either a LT or SD. It can be a big investment, so you want to make the best informed decision that you can.

Good luck!

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182494
03/09/18 04:47 PM
03/09/18 04:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 318
Chillicothe.Il
Trapper Dan2 Offline
trapper
Trapper Dan2  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 318
Chillicothe.Il
I have a 23hp surface drive on a 16 ft Lowe Jon boat.
At one time I had a 23hp long tail on it.
I only use it duck hunting so this is my take on them.

In the long tail I almost had to stand up running it.With the asian carp we
have here,I can't think of a better way to go for a swim.

The sd turns sharper and can be run sitting down.It
has an electric trim on it also.

Dan

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182532
03/09/18 05:40 PM
03/09/18 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
trapper
Marty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Do surface drives have reverse? I was hung up on tall tree stumps that were just underwater a few times with a flatbottom and a longshaft..Trees that had been inn the water for a few decades and rotted off at the surface. Maybe 10-15'of water.

To deep for the push pole and had to swim to shore both times with a rope and pull the boat off.

Having reverse is always a plus. Anyway ran 5 and 18 hp go devils, they ran fine.


E
'Honey Badger Militia'
Sleep, the anti woke adote.
Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182600
03/09/18 06:59 PM
03/09/18 06:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 291
Kansas
C
cutmjack Offline
trapper
cutmjack  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 291
Kansas
Muskrat and Trapper Les pretty much said it all as far as I'm concerned.
If you were running MOSTLY deeper water or marshes, I'd consider a surface drive. MOSTLY on the shallow side, long tail wins hands down. My disclaimer is that I've owned a Go Devil 24 HP Honda longtail for 18 years. NEVER one problem mechanically or functionally, and I've seen surface drives in same situation where I hunt/trap, struggle a bit in very shallow water. I've said my boat, 16' Sea Ark flat bottom, and motor could run on wet grass if it had to. To each their own, based on preference and application, but my 2 cents.

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182613
03/09/18 07:12 PM
03/09/18 07:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
F
FairbanksLS Offline
trapper
FairbanksLS  Offline
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F

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
I had a Go Devil longtail with a 23hp Kohler on a 16x48 Jon boat. Had a grab bar and it was a fight in the rivers I used it on and had limited maneuverability.

Sold it first chance I got.

I'd buy another but it would be on a smaller boat and less than 10hp.

Last edited by gray dog; 03/09/18 07:13 PM.

formerly posting as white dog
Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182783
03/09/18 10:09 PM
03/09/18 10:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,083
Ks
Flint Hill fur Offline
trapper
Flint Hill fur  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,083
Ks
I put together a alumacraft 14x36 with a Beaver dam mud runner long tail kit. Put a 100$ predator 6.5 hp engine on it and have never looked back. I chose a 65in shaft over the standard 80. I actually stand on the seat to run it. 14mph with myself my 6yr old and fishing gear. For less than 1200$ for the whole package I'll never got back to an outboard. That being said it is not a long haul rig. After 30 min solid motoring I have to take a break or my back will give out

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6182992
03/10/18 03:38 AM
03/10/18 03:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,946
South metro, MN
C
Calvin Offline
trapper
Calvin  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,946
South metro, MN
I have 3 surface drives. two are 14 hp units (same unit) for my rat boat (1442) and a 28hp unit is on the 1648 jon. They really run like an outboard where you can adjust the the prop depth and not have to hold it at the correct water dept. Sit down or stand up...whatever you feel. I opted out of the hydraulic trim as the manual star wheel works just fine (even on the bigger unit).

Neither of my boats are designed for a mud motor. Both are just the standard riveted jons. I went with the riveted for both due to weight. I have a welded fishing jon and if you ever get that thing hung up, you need a crane to get it unstuck. I wanted a light boat that I could get out and free myself if I had to...or push pole off of something. If I were in a rocky areas, I might consider the welded, however....maybe.

As far as boats go, longer is usually better in relationship to mud motors...especially if you don't have pods (which I don't) Front end weight is a nice thing with mud motors. With the weight of the motor and a guy in the far rear, you'll want weight up front to even out your boat. Easier to do with a little extra length if you don't have traps or critters to do it for you.

As stated, some Surface drives have a clutch and some don't. Mine do and have been bulletproof. Let off the gas and it idles down and the prop stops spinning. Most of the smaller units are going to be direct drive without a clutch, however. If they do have a clutch, I would steer clear of electric clutches for trapping. Idling heats up the electric clutches and they can fail. Mud Buddy steered me away from their electric clutch once they understood I was a trapper and it would be idling a lot.

Marty...Yes, many manufacturers now make Surface drives with Reverse. The units look just like an outboard nowadays. But it's only the larger models, last I checked.

Another consideration for any mud motor or boat combo is payload and type of use. A little forethought into what kind of critters (how much a days catch will weigh) and how far one need to go to get there in back is essential in picking a boat/motor combo. I won't go coon and beaver trapping in my rat boat. I also won't trap rats all day out of my big boat. fighting a big boat and motor in a rat slough will wear you out. Just food for thought.

Last edited by Calvin; 03/10/18 07:11 AM.
Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6183186
03/10/18 10:33 AM
03/10/18 10:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613
Northern Missouri
Northmocats Offline
trapper
Northmocats  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 613
Northern Missouri
^ Some good info, I agree about the boat combo being important. You want a rig that drafts in little water. Wont matter whats pushing it on the back if it drafts well.

I'm gonna have to look into the build your own Longtails like mentioned above. I have a little 14 foot flat with a 10hp Johnson and a homemade jackplate right now.

Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail [Re: BBarnes] #6183254
03/10/18 11:40 AM
03/10/18 11:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156
Minnesota
M
MN live bait Offline
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MN live bait  Offline
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M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156
Minnesota
I owned a 37 gator tail for a year until I tore up the alumacraft i put it on. I couldn't afford the right boat. Big mistake as posted above. I trapped minnows with it and had a 50 gallon tank in it. Those motors are very impressive and pushed that weight like nothing. Game changer in getting to fresh minnow ground. I plan on investing in there new gtr XD with the correct boat. With the low horsepower surface drives out there I honestly don't see a advantage to a long tail. Just my person opinion

Last edited by MN live bait; 03/10/18 11:41 AM.
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