Busted for saving the muskrats.
#6188655
03/15/18 07:15 PM
03/15/18 07:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,684 ND
MJM
OP
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OP
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Authorities found more than 130 dead hawks and other birds on an 80-acre property in Lassen County, said the California Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW) in a statement.
“It’s like nothing we have ever seen,” Captain Patrick Foy of CDFW’s law enforcement division told the SF Gate.
“I’ve been doing this for 21 years and some of us have been around in excess of three decades. We all kind of looked at each other and said we’ve known of nothing close to this many raptors involved in a poaching case.”
Wildlife officers collected over 140 carcasses of mostly raptors, but other birds and mammals as well. (California Department Of Fish And Wildlife) Officials were alerted to the property after receiving an anonymous tip from a person who said they saw a man kill a hawk in the area, the CDFW said.
A local officer inspected the property, and found two dead raptors in a tree and seven at its base, which justified obtaining a search warrant, the SF Gate reported.
Later, during the search, investigators with the help of a sniffer dog found a total of 126 raptor carcasses in addition to the original nine. They also found two dead bobcats, one taxidermied mountain lion, and other non-game birds, said the CDFW.
Most of the raptors found were red-tailed hawks. At least one dead owl was also found, as well as an uncommon migratory ferruginous hawk.
The property belonged to 67-year-old Richard Parker, who was booked on Sunday, March 11, with multiples charges including the take of birds of prey, take of migratory nongame birds as designated by the federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act, take of other nongame birds, and possession of wildlife unlawfully taken.
The illegal taking of raptors can lead to up to 6 months jail, and a fine of up to $5,000 per bird, the CDFW said.
"Not Really, Not Really" Mark J Monti "MJM you're a jerk."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6188666
03/15/18 07:24 PM
03/15/18 07:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,363 MT
snowy
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It seems where every I go I see birds of prey sitting and waiting for their next meal. Just a lot of birds of prey these days.
Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6188721
03/15/18 07:53 PM
03/15/18 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,472 ohio
skippyturtle
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At what point do we have a seaon on the over populated raptors.
NTA OSTA
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6188736
03/15/18 08:03 PM
03/15/18 08:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
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If raptors were overpopulated we would see a crash in prey populations, wouldn't we?
Clark
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Clark]
#6188888
03/15/18 10:00 PM
03/15/18 10:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,464 MN
walleye101
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If raptors were overpopulated we would see a crash in prey populations, wouldn't we?
Clark Have you been following the trend in snowshoe hare populations in MN?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6188905
03/15/18 10:15 PM
03/15/18 10:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,559 MB
Jurassic Park
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$700,000 fine...6 months of jail please!
Cold as ice!
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6188977
03/15/18 11:55 PM
03/15/18 11:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
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williams,mn
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I don't care for the loose use of the word "poaching"....Poaching implies a needful use of the poached .
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Clark]
#6189076
03/16/18 06:37 AM
03/16/18 06:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030 SEPA
Lugnut
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If raptors were overpopulated we would see a crash in prey populations, wouldn't we?
Clark There are no wild pheasants left in Pennsylvania and rabbits are few and far between compared to yesteryear.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189180
03/16/18 09:04 AM
03/16/18 09:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218 MI
lebowski
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Mr. Parker broke the law. He will face the consequences.
I can't believe some on this forum would condone breaking the law to "save the muskrats"
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
--The Dude
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Clark]
#6189187
03/16/18 09:11 AM
03/16/18 09:11 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,118 Ky
jbyrd63
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If raptors were overpopulated we would see a crash in prey populations, wouldn't we?
Clark LOL come to ky and try to find a pond with a muskrat in it !!!!!
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: lebowski]
#6189216
03/16/18 09:33 AM
03/16/18 09:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
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Mr. Parker broke the law. He will face the consequences.
I can't believe some on this forum would condone breaking the law to "save the muskrats" Now that's funny. If you want to save the muskrats, cut down all the trees around your rat pond so the raptors cant perch there. I believe that if you don't shoot something once in a while, how do you know you'll hit anything. Growing up, I shot every hawk, horned owl, buzzard and crow I could. I hardly fire a shot now unless it is one a year at a deer.
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189276
03/16/18 10:22 AM
03/16/18 10:22 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
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The natural reaction to a situation without an obvious cause is to blame something other than ourselves. Why not raptors? They're everywhere! And they all feed on muskrats?
It would be nice to see the slightest bit of critical thinking coming from the collective wisdom of this board. How many species of raptors are A) large enough to kill a muskrat and B) hunt over water? In North America that limits us to, at most, 3 raptors. Yes, let's blame the raptors because we would hate to look at our own practices that limit muskrat populations, that would take change that we may not agree with.
Clark
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189277
03/16/18 10:22 AM
03/16/18 10:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,111 7mtns of CENTRAL PA
GROUSEWIT
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They r the #1 uncontrolled predator. State Game depts claim their hands r tied. So I guess we just let them eat all the pheasants or muskrats in this case they want and keep wondering why hunter participation keeps dropping. Like the wolves and elk out west!
Last edited by GROUSEWIT; 03/16/18 10:26 AM.
NRALIFER,PRPA LIFER,HUNTER,FURTAKER
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189289
03/16/18 10:30 AM
03/16/18 10:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
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trapper
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There is no mention of muskrats in the article, by the way, lol. Tis a nice thread title though .
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189297
03/16/18 10:34 AM
03/16/18 10:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830 Wisconsin
The Beav
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Wisconsin
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If we would close down all the Hi Ways the raptor population would plummet over night.They live off all the road kills and the mowed ROWs make easy hunting for small rodents.
Like Les said cut down all the trees around the pond and that would take care of the problem. We never passed up a shot at any crow hawk or owl when we were kids.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189304
03/16/18 10:36 AM
03/16/18 10:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,170 Oregon
beaverpeeler
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No pheasants around here anymore either. But in the last 30-40 years farmers have taken out all the hedgerows and a good portion of the contiguous brush patches so they can farm a little more land.
Farmers may need to be thinned out a little?
My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: beaverpeeler]
#6189316
03/16/18 10:43 AM
03/16/18 10:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,364 Iowa
~ADC~
The Count
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The Count
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Posts: 16,364
Iowa
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No pheasants around here anymore either. But in the last 30-40 years farmers have taken out all the hedgerows and a good portion of the contiguous brush patches so they can farm a little more land.
Farmers may need to be thinned out a little? LOL
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189318
03/16/18 10:45 AM
03/16/18 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,111 7mtns of CENTRAL PA
GROUSEWIT
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My dad and uncles used to collect bounty from hawks, owls, an foxes.But that was when the farm was loaded with pheasants and quail. Back then u were instructed only to shoot the chicken hawk and owl.But the demise of small game is from newer farming practices and can't be from creating an uncontrolled avian predator!
NRALIFER,PRPA LIFER,HUNTER,FURTAKER
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Clark]
#6189320
03/16/18 10:46 AM
03/16/18 10:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030 SEPA
Lugnut
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Posts: 20,030
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The natural reaction to a situation without an obvious cause is to blame something other than ourselves. Why not raptors? They're everywhere! And they all feed on muskrats?
It would be nice to see the slightest bit of critical thinking coming from the collective wisdom of this board. How many species of raptors are A) large enough to kill a muskrat and B) hunt over water? In North America that limits us to, at most, 3 raptors. Yes, let's blame the raptors because we would hate to look at our own practices that limit muskrat populations, that would take change that we may not agree with.
Clark I agree with what you posted. I would like to see a regulated season on redails only in my state. I have no doubt they play a big role in reduced small game numbers. And they seem to be over-populated.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: beaverpeeler]
#6189335
03/16/18 10:55 AM
03/16/18 10:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030 SEPA
Lugnut
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030
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No pheasants around here anymore either. But in the last 30-40 years farmers have taken out all the hedgerows and a good portion of the contiguous brush patches so they can farm a little more land.
Farmers may need to be thinned out a little? Here in PA there are many factors that contributed to the elimination of pheasants; clean farming techniques/lack of cover, early cutting of hybrid hay crops, avian flu, the banning of DDT and the protection of raptors just to mention a few. But now that they are gone the PGC has found it impossible to build a breeding population even on large tracts specifically tailored for that purpose (Wild Pheasant Recovery Areas) where no hunting is allowed and the cover is maintained. I believe our very large population of redtails has a lot to do with that.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189345
03/16/18 11:05 AM
03/16/18 11:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
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trapper
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Posts: 25,409
williams,mn
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We need to vote to establish another sacrificial bird, besides the common pigeon, starlings , and English sparrows, just so folks can practice their shooting skills more. Maybe the crowduck, and the common seagull ?
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189349
03/16/18 11:07 AM
03/16/18 11:07 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,738 Iowa
coydog2
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Posts: 2,738
Iowa
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I know around me here that the farmers put in alot of tile lines to gain more ground to farm.So that take out some of the wet lands. Less rats in the end.it is not just one thing that is the problem it is many.if there was more marsh around then the rats and other animals will make it. Also for game birds.Like stated about farmers clear the brush and all for more crops.So you got a lack of cover for game.There is also many animals that feed on rats beside birds.Just like on game birds and rabbits.
Life member of DAV,NTA,NRA,ITA.Also member of FTA,CBA
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189424
03/16/18 12:42 PM
03/16/18 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 815 Nebraska
1crazytrapper
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Clark if you think that there are only 3 raptors that are able to take muskrat sized animals, you might have to do a little research.
Member of NFH and NRA
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: yukonjeff]
#6189442
03/16/18 12:57 PM
03/16/18 12:57 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,738 Iowa
coydog2
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Posts: 2,738
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Lets kill all the beautiful raptors to save the ugly muskrats.
Thanks guys. Now I understand the thinking on how wildlife populations were decimated and went extinct in the lower 48 states. You got it right on the nose for the heart of the problem.I know some that like to see every thing clean out so no wildlife is around.
Life member of DAV,NTA,NRA,ITA.Also member of FTA,CBA
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: 330-Trapper]
#6189447
03/16/18 01:03 PM
03/16/18 01:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,306 minnesota
goldy
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minnesota
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It would be nice to see the slightest bit of critical thinking coming from the collective wisdom of this board.
Oh Clark,Clark,Clark...There's plenty of Wisdom And critical thinking on "THIS BOARD" you just cannot fathom any of it- at all- because it doesn't usually follow your utopian ecological balance that you have come to believe in. In many ways it's the pot calling the kettle black. This Board is just fine if you don't think so change the channel. X2.
"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" Ben Franklin talking about guns
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189451
03/16/18 01:06 PM
03/16/18 01:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
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good for that guy he has my support! I hunted pheasants in Kansas on the way home I counted red tails sitting on power poles. I got sick of it at 390 and was still over a hundred miles from the Missouri Kansas border! we actually had a red tail kill a pheasant while our dog was pointing it! and sadly it survived! Im starting to believe fish and wildlife are more tree huggers than peta! I guess the problem can always be rectified after its to late! I enjoy watching eagles but they are still just a white headed buzzard.
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189467
03/16/18 01:26 PM
03/16/18 01:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497 PA
PAskinner
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Posts: 4,497
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I certainly don't Advocate what he did. But to shoot that many Raptors in that small of an area gotta tell you something about how overpopulated they are.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Clark]
#6189552
03/16/18 03:20 PM
03/16/18 03:20 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,628 Champaign County, Ohio.
KeithC
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Posts: 15,628
Champaign County, Ohio.
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The natural reaction to a situation without an obvious cause is to blame something other than ourselves. Why not raptors? They're everywhere! And they all feed on muskrats?
It would be nice to see the slightest bit of critical thinking coming from the collective wisdom of this board. How many species of raptors are A) large enough to kill a muskrat and B) hunt over water? In North America that limits us to, at most, 3 raptors. Yes, let's blame the raptors because we would hate to look at our own practices that limit muskrat populations, that would take change that we may not agree with.
Clark You would think anyone capable of critical thinking would comprehend that muskrats are not born adult size and that almost every raptor, except for tiny ones, such as kestrels, can kill a muskrat, when they first become ambulatory. You would also think anyone capable of critical thinking would comprehend that muskrats don't always stay in the water and that all species of raptors sometimes fly over and near water. Keith
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189663
03/16/18 05:55 PM
03/16/18 05:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409
williams,mn
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I don't know why invasives, like Pheasants were even brought up. As parasitic nesters, with a shorter incubation period, they are the main displacer of prairie chickens. Yet we kill all the egg eaters . If I thought pheasants would make it up here and displace sharptailed grouse, I'd kill every one I saw. They are a non native in my state.
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: jbyrd63]
#6189723
03/16/18 07:10 PM
03/16/18 07:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,053 SE Kansas
K52
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Wonder what the wildlife biologist would say the population is per square mile if that many was killed on 80 acres. Two.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: yukonjeff]
#6189761
03/16/18 07:54 PM
03/16/18 07:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,865 Huntingdon Co. Pa.
forestman3
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Posts: 1,865
Huntingdon Co. Pa.
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I though we as trappers were conservationist, apparently not.
As if destroying all their natural habitat to farm every square inch wasn't enough.... Now we need to persecute them for eating their natural diet as well because we like to sport hunt/trap the same animals they need to eat to survive.
I hope the antis don't read this thread they will be making posters out of some of your guys quotes. I don`t think any of us think we should take matters in our own hands like the man did.But I think we all have enough common sense to know the hawks need to be managed just like everything.That`s not going to happen and that`s what makes everyone upset.JMO
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: trapper les]
#6189773
03/16/18 08:07 PM
03/16/18 08:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,684 ND
MJM
OP
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,684
ND
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There is no mention of muskrats in the article, by the way, lol. Tis a nice thread title though . You have to admit Les I got them going. Good thing I didn't post the picture of the dead hawks.
"Not Really, Not Really" Mark J Monti "MJM you're a jerk."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189778
03/16/18 08:19 PM
03/16/18 08:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409
williams,mn
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I saw what you did, lol.
There has been an eruption of Great Gray Owls from the north, up here lately. I like watching them...mouse and vole eaters, I believe.
These days, I have limited myself to defending my chicken yard of all predators, wild or domestic.
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Hutchy]
#6189794
03/16/18 08:33 PM
03/16/18 08:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 628 Brazil Indiana
harrison72
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trapper
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Posts: 628
Brazil Indiana
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Raptors?? I thought dinosaurs were extinct??? I thought raptors were what the sheeting on my roof were nailed to?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: yukonjeff]
#6189800
03/16/18 08:39 PM
03/16/18 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218 MI
lebowski
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218
MI
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This!! I though we as trappers were conservationist, apparently not.
As if destroying all their natural habitat to farm every square inch wasn't enough.... Now we need to persecute them for eating their natural diet as well because we like to sport hunt/trap the same animals they need to eat to survive.
I hope the antis don't read this thread they will be making posters out of some of your guys quotes.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
--The Dude
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189825
03/16/18 08:53 PM
03/16/18 08:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,684 ND
MJM
OP
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,684
ND
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I for one, could care less about hawks eating muskrats. I don't care about wolves eating deer and elk. They are predators, it is what they do. Like Les I do get offended when a hawk, coon, neighbors dog or cat is after my chickens though.
"Not Really, Not Really" Mark J Monti "MJM you're a jerk."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: KeithC]
#6189871
03/16/18 09:30 PM
03/16/18 09:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580
Duluth, MN
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You would think anyone capable of critical thinking would comprehend that muskrats are not born adult size and that almost every raptor, except for tiny ones, such as kestrels, can kill a muskrat, when they first become ambulatory.
You would also think anyone capable of critical thinking would comprehend that muskrats don't always stay in the water and that all species of raptors sometimes fly over and near water.
Keith No one denies that most raptors can kill a muskrat. The critical thinking part is knowing how many actually do. Seeing a single raptor kill a single muskrat isn't really good evidence that all raptors of that species feed on muskrats. Raptors, like all predators, are opportunistic but we must manage in a way that accounts for the species preference, not the exception to the rule. Oh Clark,Clark,Clark...There's plenty of Wisdom And critical thinking on "THIS BOARD" you just cannot fathom any of it- at all- because it doesn't usually follow your utopian ecological balance that you have come to believe in. In many ways it's the pot calling the kettle black. This Board is just fine if you don't think so change the channel. I was a bit critical of the people on this board and I'm sorry for that. However, it makes me so happy that you say my name three times! What is actually happening is a difference of world view and how it is applied to managing our resources. The prevailing view is that man is at the top of the ecosystem and should dominate it through whatever means are necessary. This is also the view that got us to where we are, for better or worse. If you're a raptor, that is good and if you're a muskrat it's bad. Continue to blame the raptors, that is fine with me. Very few have listened to my advice that we should look at ourselves as the principal cause of muskrat declines. Instead we see that everything else has a greater impact on the environment than us and choose to impose our will where we see a fault needing correction. How has that worked for water quality in the gulf of mexico? Nitrates in ground water? Muskrat populations across the eastern US? Controlling weeds in agricultural fields? Clark
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189973
03/16/18 11:24 PM
03/16/18 11:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580
Duluth, MN
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I know nothing of snowshoe hair populations.
Clark
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6189977
03/16/18 11:31 PM
03/16/18 11:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409
williams,mn
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There are pockets of hares, and other places devoid. I believe it's a natural 10 year cycle, and has nothing to do with raptors.
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190004
03/17/18 12:13 AM
03/17/18 12:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,939 east central WI
Dirty D
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,939
east central WI
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I have to agree with Clark and YukonJeff,
All of you should be aware that number one in wildlife populations is Cover. And for some species its different kinds of cover at different times of the year. Pheasants are a good example, nesting, winter and cover for rearing chicks. You need all types. Without any of them you won't have Pheasants.
In my area there is less cover than 50 years ago. Cleared fence rows, mowing ROW and fools who own 10 acres in the country and mow every inch. Most of the places I used to hunt 35 years ago are useless to wildlife now.
Another little point I'd like to make is how did rabbits, muskrats and whatever else ever survive 300 years ago when there more and various predators around? In Wis. we had Lynx, wolverine, wolves across the whole state and yet we had more prey species than we do now such as Elk and Bison.
YukonJeff is right in that man has done more to harm the populations of muskrats and pheasants than predators ever will.
The rest of you guys are an Anti's wet dream. Talking about killing hawks, eagles, owls and other predators, such ignorance.
Do yourselves a favor and read about the Kaibab Forest and how mans eliminating predators ruined the habitat for deer.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190013
03/17/18 12:33 AM
03/17/18 12:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409
williams,mn
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Dirty...why cant man be the predator for deer ?
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: trapper les]
#6190024
03/17/18 12:54 AM
03/17/18 12:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,939 east central WI
Dirty D
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,939
east central WI
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Dirty...why cant man be the predator for deer ? he can. Do we manage the deer herd to match the carrying capacity of the land or do we manage the herd to make hunters happy? Or maybe we should manage the herd to make the farmers and Ins. companies happy. Or maybe we should manage the herd to make the foresters and landowners who like to grow timber happy. Or do we manage the herd so there is lots of deer around and all the tourists are happy and the tourism business is happy? Everyone has an opinion on how many deer is enough. Fact is there are too many deer right now so man isn't doing a very good job at it. Politics and human nature make a mess of it. We can't agree how big the deer herd should be. I pity the DNR having to deal with it all. My .02 we should manage for the carrying capacity of the land taking into account that when deer are damaging the habitat there is too many. Which is what is happening right now.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190088
03/17/18 06:43 AM
03/17/18 06:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030 SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030
SEPA
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Our forefathers understood the wisdom of eliminating the top predators in direct competition with us for prey species.
Sometime around the late sixties and seventies we were told by government tree-huggers that we were wrong in that thinking.
Over the next four or five decades bounties were removed and predator species were federally protected and even reintroduced. Now we have an over-abundance of raptors eating small game into non-existence, fisher putting a hurting on turkey populations (here in PA) and wolves decimating the elk and deer herds out west. All in the name of a "balanced" Eco-system.
Man, as top predator, can do a much better job of managing game populations than wild predators. and the total protection and reintroduction of predators will never make sense to me.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: mnsota]
#6190232
03/17/18 09:51 AM
03/17/18 09:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 815 Nebraska
1crazytrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 815
Nebraska
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[quote=mnsota] The prevailing view is that man is at the top of the ecosystem and should dominate it through whatever means are necessary. This is also the view that got us to where we are, for better or worse. If you're a raptor, that is good and if you're a muskrat it's bad.
We have the ability to reason,.that in itself should afford us dominion over the creatures. [/quote A wolf also sees its pack as the top of the ecosystem and low and behold, they will kill any other predators that are direct competitors of their food source. That is their way of managing the ecosystem for their benefit. I believe the creatures were put here for man to manage and survive off of them. Imo the lib. view is that man is an invader,and has no business managing
Member of NFH and NRA
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Rat Masterson]
#6190268
03/17/18 10:27 AM
03/17/18 10:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218 MI
lebowski
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218
MI
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Populations are much higher than they used to be. This does not mean a person has the right to take the law or conservation practices they feel are needed in their own hands. The individual in the story broke the law and will face the consequences he should. If anyone does not think there are more hawks and eagles now than 40 years ago they don't get out much. They will continue to reproduce until they run out of prey or get a disease, then they will crash. Hopefully there will be a small mammal or bird left.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
--The Dude
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Lugnut]
#6190271
03/17/18 10:30 AM
03/17/18 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218 MI
lebowski
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218
MI
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Man hunted whitetails to very low levels. Only when seasons and regulations were enacted did the deer populations recover. Our forefathers understood the wisdom of eliminating the top predators in direct competition with us for prey species.
Sometime around the late sixties and seventies we were told by government tree-huggers that we were wrong in that thinking.
Over the next four or five decades bounties were removed and predator species were federally protected and even reintroduced. Now we have an over-abundance of raptors eating small game into non-existence, fisher putting a hurting on turkey populations (here in PA) and wolves decimating the elk and deer herds out west. All in the name of a "balanced" Eco-system.
Man, as top predator, can do a much better job of managing game populations than wild predators. and the total protection and reintroduction of predators will never make sense to me.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
--The Dude
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190272
03/17/18 10:32 AM
03/17/18 10:32 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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the deer don't kill my chickens and turkeys.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190315
03/17/18 11:14 AM
03/17/18 11:14 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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they think they are doing them a favor till they get overpopulated and mother nature takes care of her own.swear she is doing it with the coon around here now.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190359
03/17/18 12:29 PM
03/17/18 12:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
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what next will the government shut down major high ways? Because to many raptors are falling victims to cars! Because they have decimated the prey speices every where except the row! A fella here got fined 1700$ just for shooting at one! They will kill the wrong fuzzy lap dog someday and the tides will change. Just look at the coyote one city slicker gets a video of one chomping down on someones precious kitty then they are public enemy no one. I hate to say it but the wolves are following suit but I fear it wont be a kitty but a kid! In the 50s a lot of farm familys lived off of rabbits. Today they better have a small and skinny family. lol .But bulldozers are just as much to blame as raptors
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190366
03/17/18 12:38 PM
03/17/18 12:38 PM
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bleeohio
Unregistered
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bleeohio
Unregistered
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Muskrat lives matter!! And how in the heck does anyone know what the deer population was in 1450?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: mnsota]
#6190377
03/17/18 01:11 PM
03/17/18 01:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580
Duluth, MN
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We have the ability to reason,.that in itself should afford us dominion over the creatures. Dominion over all creation is different than what I was talking about. In your view, dominion means domination. The actual definition is sovereignty or control. How we enact that is the difference between our opinions. Clark
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: ]
#6190402
03/17/18 01:40 PM
03/17/18 01:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 605 North Dakota
BFP
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 605
North Dakota
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Muskrat lives matter!! And how in the heck does anyone know what the deer population was in 1450? I was thinking the same thing.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190410
03/17/18 01:48 PM
03/17/18 01:48 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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honestly here it is just the redtails i have problems with.i see others including eagles and they don't sit on the roof trying to figure out how to get to my chickens.also cant free range them like i would like cause of the redtails.been on this same farm for 50 yrs also.
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: lebowski]
#6190447
03/17/18 02:51 PM
03/17/18 02:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030 SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,030
SEPA
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Man hunted whitetails to very low levels. Only when seasons and regulations were enacted did the deer populations recover. Our forefathers understood the wisdom of eliminating the top predators in direct competition with us for prey species.
Sometime around the late sixties and seventies we were told by government tree-huggers that we were wrong in that thinking.
Over the next four or five decades bounties were removed and predator species were federally protected and even reintroduced. Now we have an over-abundance of raptors eating small game into non-existence, fisher putting a hurting on turkey populations (here in PA) and wolves decimating the elk and deer herds out west. All in the name of a "balanced" Eco-system.
Man, as top predator, can do a much better job of managing game populations than wild predators. and the total protection and reintroduction of predators will never make sense to me.
I wasn't aware Christopher Columbus brought wildlife biologists with him. Did they use turd counts to determine population densities five hundred years ago?
Eh...wot?
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: MJM]
#6190463
03/17/18 03:17 PM
03/17/18 03:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409
williams,mn
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I wonder if we could have the real chart...that goes back to Eric the Red ? Who's that Columbus guy anyway, in the greater light of the Vikings ?
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: mnsota]
#6190471
03/17/18 03:27 PM
03/17/18 03:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,409
williams,mn
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[
We have the ability to reason,.that in itself should afford us dominion over the creatures. I hate to lean on this....Somewhere in the Bible it will say that God gave man dominion over the creatures. Just sayin' .
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Busted for saving the muskrats.
[Re: Clark]
#6192252
03/19/18 10:36 AM
03/19/18 10:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 815 Nebraska
1crazytrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 815
Nebraska
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We have the ability to reason,.that in itself should afford us dominion over the creatures. Dominion over all creation is different than what I was talking about. In your view, dominion means domination. The actual definition is sovereignty or control. How we enact that is the difference between our opinions. Clark If you think that any of the top predators besides humans dont try to dominate every other direct competitor, than you dont spend much time in the woods. You think that the wilderness is some utopian society. Stop watching so many Disney movies. LOL
Member of NFH and NRA
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