Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6185400
03/12/18 03:42 PM
03/12/18 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 8 SE Alaska
Sobie2
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 8
SE Alaska
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I wouldn’t... saw a snare yesterday for wolf with an S hook used to secure cable around a tree. IIn our area if non trappers saw a wolf running around with a snare on it, that would be the end of trapping in an already overly regulated island!
Sobie2
Norwegian Russian Tlingit
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6185435
03/12/18 04:11 PM
03/12/18 04:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,697 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
"On The Other Hand"
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"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,697
Idaho, Lemhi County
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In Alaska, we experimented with many break-away systems. The one we finally settled on was 7/64 1x19 GAC double swaged with 1/8 aluminum double ferrule. This was relatively consistent with break-away between 700 and 750 lbs. I have seen a handful of wolves break away with that system. Having said that, I would expect that 525 is a bit light.
Jack
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6185592
03/12/18 07:21 PM
03/12/18 07:21 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,686 Alaska
drasselt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,686
Alaska
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So I take it the weak spot was the 1/8" ferrule?
you can vote your way into socialism, but you will have to shoot your way out.
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6185767
03/12/18 09:48 PM
03/12/18 09:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,697 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
"On The Other Hand"
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"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,697
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Yeah drasselt, that was the idea, to have it break away at the double ferrule for moose, but hold together for wolves.
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6187281
03/14/18 10:28 AM
03/14/18 10:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,638 Bethel, Alaska
fishermann222
"OX"
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"OX"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,638
Bethel, Alaska
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Spek we had some issues with 3/32 Thompson locks this weekend also. Here is a photo os a cut and hammered one that failed on us this weekend, luckily we still picked up the wolf in the next snare. If you look close at this picture, you can see where the cable actually formed a groove into the lock. It is almost as if the GAC "filed" the lock from movement. This didn't just happen on this one lock, but two others as well, where you could see the cable "filed" the lock so it wouldn't cinch down. Disappointing.
I survived the Tman crash of '06
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Gulo]
#6187378
03/14/18 12:24 PM
03/14/18 12:24 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,686 Alaska
drasselt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,686
Alaska
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Yeah drasselt, that was the idea, to have it break away at the double ferrule for moose, but hold together for wolves. C. Gardner tested some 3/32 coyote snares for me back then. Keiper locks If I recall they let loose around 1000 - 1200 lbs. Still they released all moose. But it's warmer here than the interior and we had them tied to stout trees, not brush. Got lucky I suppose. Now there are so few moose around it's not the problem that it once was. These were mainly used as coyote snares.
you can vote your way into socialism, but you will have to shoot your way out.
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6187412
03/14/18 01:03 PM
03/14/18 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046 Homer, Alaska
Spek Jones
"FATHER"
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"FATHER"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046
Homer, Alaska
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Fish, that is a problem I see a lot too. The locks are made of cold rolled steel and the steel is to soft. Most of the time they will lock properly, but too many of them will round off the edge like your picture shows. That is why I am trying to temper them myself, to make them harder and stop them from rounding off. That lock you show also has the hole off centered, not as bad as some of them, but still not centered.
Drasselt, thanks for the comments about the Keiper locks. I have been wanting to try them out, do you prefer them over the Thompson locks? I've never held one, but from what I understand they are made with tempered steel, and I have heard of at least one breaking due to the steel being too brittle. Would like to know what your thoughts are on them.
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6187522
03/14/18 02:52 PM
03/14/18 02:52 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,686 Alaska
drasselt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,686
Alaska
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Spek we bought a bunch of pre made snares from somewhere and they had the keiper locks but that was 20 +years ago! Most of them have cycled through not sure now if I still have some or not but probably do, mixed in with arsenal. I'll make a point of keeping an eye out for them, I still have to get my gear put away from this year. If I find some, I'll let you know but I never had any break on coyotes or wolves. It is possible moose broke some but it seems the end stop let go on most or all. My brother gave me a dozen old Thompson 7/64 a couple years ago, original locks, I was going to pass them along but it sounds like I better hang onto them!
you can vote your way into socialism, but you will have to shoot your way out.
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6187740
03/14/18 07:25 PM
03/14/18 07:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046 Homer, Alaska
Spek Jones
"FATHER"
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"FATHER"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046
Homer, Alaska
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Thanks Drasselt. Here's a picture of a new T lock with the holes punched off center. This one is pretty extreme. To me it's just hard to believe any business would let something like this go out the door. This is a 3/32 lock. This is a sample of a 7/64. The weak side of these locks is going to bend out easily when the lock is cut for a break away. An old style 7/64 with the holes punched in the center. Don't believe I ever saw one of the old ones punched off-center. The old style Thompson locks (pictured on the left) had a tapered hole where the lock binds on the cable, whereas the new ones, pictured on the right, have a round hole. Seems to me the tapered hole would lock on the cable better than the round hole, but don't know for sure. But that's one sure way to identify whether a lock is the old style or not.
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6192000
03/19/18 02:12 AM
03/19/18 02:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828 Hill City,Mn.
Rally
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
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Spek, I think the locks you have pictured on the right are not Thompson locks. They appear to be BMI Slide Free locks. You may want to look into the newer Kieper locks the Snare Shop is making. They are made of a heavier cast material. I've never tried to saw them or use them as a break away so rigged, but they are a heavier built lock.
Keep your boots dry
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6192370
03/19/18 01:11 PM
03/19/18 01:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046 Homer, Alaska
Spek Jones
"FATHER"
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"FATHER"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046
Homer, Alaska
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Thanks for the comments Rally. A little back ground, not long after Thad and Nancy bought out Raymond Thompson a few years ago, I ordered 300 hundred 3/32 snares from them. When they came in I noticed the locks were different than what I had gotten from RT in the past. I've always cut the locks as a breakaway system and had not had any issues with the old style Thompson snares, but the first year I used the newer ones I lost five wolves that winter due to them pulling out the breakaway. The locks that were failing were the ones most punched "off center". I complained to Davis's about the poor quality of the locks and we emailed back and forth a lot that winter. They were not interested in trying to improve the locks. I did talk them into selling me 300 locks for 7/64th cable. They don't like to sell parts and pieces but in this situation they made an exception. I thought if I put the bigger 7/64 locks on the 3/32 cable that might end the problem of losing wolves, but when I got the locks in and started studying them it was obvious they were no stronger structurally than the 3/32 locks, and they were plagued by the same problem of being punched off-center. There was nothing to be gained by cutting the 3/32 locks off and putting on the 7/64 locks. I was tired messing with it and tossed the bags of locks in a drawer and gave up on it for a long time. I went ahead using the 3/32 snares and accepting the lose's. In the meantime I have gradually drifted over to using footholds more than snares. I did go through the 7/64 locks this fall and picked out the best 36 locks out of the 300. I hacksawed them and hammered them down, then heated them up and tempered them in oil, and made up three dozen 3/32 snares that I feel confident in setting. But shoot, I only caught three this winter, 2 in #9's and one in a coyote snare. So no field testing yet. Rally, the locks in the picture most definitely are Thompson locks. BMI's do look very similar to Thompson locks, but if you look at a BMI the ends of the lock are cut square whereas the Thompson's are rounded some what. These are BMI. Compare with the Thompson locks pictured above. As mentioned above in my response to Drasselt I am interested in trying out the Kieper locks. I'll be ordering some for next winter. If the steel in them is tempered too hard to hacksaw I may have to try using "s" hooks as a BAD.
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6193113
03/20/18 01:26 AM
03/20/18 01:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828 Hill City,Mn.
Rally
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
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Spek, I can't tell from the picture. It's tough to get a good picture without something for scale. I can't find any of my Thompson locks to compare to my BMI's. I've several buckets of my own parts and I'm not having any luck finding any. Anyway here are a couple pictures of the old Kieper (far left all pictures) the new Kieper (center all pictures) and a 3/32" BMI Slide Free (far right all pictures). The newer Kieper is also listed as a 3/32/18" lock on all packaging. Note the rounded corners on the BMI also. LOL
Last edited by Rally; 03/20/18 01:28 AM.
Keep your boots dry
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Re: break away for wolf
[Re: Fergustrap 2]
#6194257
03/20/18 11:29 PM
03/20/18 11:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828 Hill City,Mn.
Rally
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
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Spek, You got it correct. I was looking at the body of the lock and the very corners, not the radius on the end of the lock. I was comparing what I had in my hand with your second picture of the BMI locks. I know the Kiepers will work well with 3/32 and 7/64" 1x19 cable. I've not tried to saw them for a B/A device.
Keep your boots dry
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