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Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: walleye101] #6210697
04/07/18 02:11 PM
04/07/18 02:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 327
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 327
east central WI
Originally Posted By: walleye101
Originally Posted By: Dirty D

I hope you get where I'm coming from.




Dirty D
I get where you are coming from but here is the story in Northern MN.

We have been way over the restoration goal for wolves for decades. Wolves have not "wiped out the deer herd", but they do in areas significantly deplete deer numbers. On the other hand, Moose have been in serious decline and really are in danger of being "wiped out". The fact that they we are no longer able to have a Moose season shows that wolves are in direct competition with hunters and in this case the wolf clearly won.

Back to deer though, from a preditor prey standpoint it would have been far better for the moose if the wolves had depleted the deer. As it is now, the deer are providing a prey buffer that keeps wolf density high even with a catistrophic decline in moose. With no decline in wolf abundance there is no predation relief for moose even at current low densities and they will continue to decline.

The reason folks distrust the "studies" is that MNDNR has for years been pointing to everything but wolves for the decline in moose, when there own data would suggest otherwise. It is only recently the some researchers are beginning to implicate high predation mortality on moose calves as the primary reason for the decline.


Your comment brings up an interesting point.
So the Moose Pop. is too small for human hunting. Wolves are eating a portion of the Moose population without doubt.
Do you truly care about the Moose population or do you care because you no longer can hunt Moose?
If the Moose population can stabilize and maybe slowly increase but there is never a Moose season again are you OK with that?
Just wondering what your true motivation is here. Is it all about you and your fun or do you really care about the Moose?



As far as Moose and deer, do you discount the Brainworm? Is that just made up by the MN DNR?
If its true then what % of the Moose that the wolves eat are weakened by the brainworm and are dying a slow death anyways?
Also if the brainworm is true would it be better for the Moose if the deer population in N. MN (where I've been told they are not native anyways by posters on this forum) to decline?
Or would you prefer the wolves be eliminated, Deer Populations increase and take your chances on the Moose coming back?

As far as eating calves, how about bears? don't they eat calves too?
They can be hunted right now, maybe we should have a open all year season, unlimited bag limits. After all they eat Moose calves too and we can do something about them.

All this predator/prey stuff is not so simple.

All of you with your Little Red Riding Hood mentalities better get used to it for your own sanity. I hear all the whining about wolves eating "your deer/Moose" and the "only good wolf is a dead wolf". There is nothing that can be done right now as far as wolves in the GL area. If or when they get delisted they will still remain. If the population of wolves declines too much after delisting the states will not allow harvesting. Wolves are here to stay. They have been here for thousands of years before and there is no reason they can't be here in the future. Get used to it.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6210719
04/07/18 02:40 PM
04/07/18 02:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 366
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 366
Northern WI
Moose are native to Mn, in NE Mn there were moose and caribou, and few deer until the forests were logged and they followed the logging and new growth. There were two sustainable moose populations in N Mn until recently.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6210729
04/07/18 02:43 PM
04/07/18 02:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,352
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
trapper
danny clifton  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,352
williamsburg ks
First moose I ever saw was off HWY1 in the early 80's


Ban private vehicles now. They are killing too much wildlife and too many children.
Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6210736
04/07/18 02:47 PM
04/07/18 02:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 366
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 366
Northern WI
Dirty D can we please keep this thread on target and argue wolf management on the other thread I started. I will respond to you on that thread.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: danny clifton] #6210739
04/07/18 02:51 PM
04/07/18 02:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 366
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 366
Northern WI
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
First moose I ever saw was off HWY1 in the early 80's


Danny I lived up in that neck of the woods in the mid 80's and it was a rare trip across hwy 1 without seeing at lease one moose, any time of the day.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6211961
04/08/18 08:33 PM
04/08/18 08:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 38
NJ
H
Hunter4623* Offline
trapper
Hunter4623*  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 38
NJ
Email sent

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: Dirty D] #6212188
04/09/18 01:39 AM
04/09/18 01:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 567
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 567
MN
Originally Posted By: Dirty D



Your comment brings up an interesting point.
So the Moose Pop. is too small for human hunting. Wolves are eating a portion of the Moose population without doubt.
Do you truly care about the Moose population or do you care because you no longer can hunt Moose?
If the Moose population can stabilize and maybe slowly increase but there is never a Moose season again are you OK with that?
Just wondering what your true motivation is here. Is it all about you and your fun or do you really care about the Moose?

As far as Moose and deer, do you discount the Brainworm? Is that just made up by the MN DNR?
If its true then what % of the Moose that the wolves eat are weakened by the brainworm and are dying a slow death anyways?
Also if the brainworm is true would it be better for the Moose if the deer population in N. MN (where I've been told they are not native anyways by posters on this forum) to decline?
Or would you prefer the wolves be eliminated, Deer Populations increase and take your chances on the Moose coming back?

As far as eating calves, how about bears? don't they eat calves too?
They can be hunted right now, maybe we should have a open all year season, unlimited bag limits. After all they eat Moose calves too and we can do something about them.

All this predator/prey stuff is not so simple.

All of you with your Little Red Riding Hood mentalities better get used to it for your own sanity. I hear all the whining about wolves eating "your deer/Moose" and the "only good wolf is a dead wolf". There is nothing that can be done right now as far as wolves in the GL area. If or when they get delisted they will still remain. If the population of wolves declines too much after delisting the states will not allow harvesting. Wolves are here to stay. They have been here for thousands of years before and there is no reason they can't be here in the future. Get used to it.


Settle down there Dirty D. whistle

Did I say anything about wanting to hunt moose? I've never hunted moose and most likely never will. My point was that it is a management failure when an iconic big game species has declined to the point that it can no longer support a hunting season. It should be every conservationists goal to restore the moose population back to where there could be sustainable harvest again. I'm kind of wondering what your true motivation is on this topic.

Did I say anything to discount brainworm? Brainworm effects mature adult moose, and is one source of mortality for adult moose. Wolves do prey on adult moose and some of those have brainworm. No matter what the various sources of adult mortality are, populations decline when adult mortality exceeds the rate of replacement by new calves. Moose calves are not dying or weakend by brainworm.

Nowhere in anything I wrote did I suggest eliminating wolves. I only advocated for active management of wolves to assist in moose recovery. Where do you get the idea that any active management of wolf densities will result in eliminating wolves?

Did I say bears don't eat moose calves? Yes they do and they to can be managed reasonably with seasons and limits. Nobody is suggesting predators be eliminated.

And what is the point of the derogatory "Little Red Riding Hood" comment? Sounds to me like you're the one doing the whining. Yes when wolves get delisted they will still remain. That is the point of an active management program.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6213829
04/10/18 07:06 PM
04/10/18 07:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 470
Upper Peninsula, Mi
C
coykill Offline
trapper
coykill  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 470
Upper Peninsula, Mi
email also sent. We have a cabin 30 miles north of our home that is over run with wolves. My wife and I called in 5 of them calling for coyotes to 23 yards in front of us. It is nothing to take a ride and see wolf tracks. A few weeks ago we seen tracks and followed them on snowmobile and found a fawn with the ribcage eaten off and that is it. Are they killing for fun? Last night here at home my wife walked our black lab and found a fawn along the driveway that looked like the fawn we seen at the cabin. We are so paranoid about letting our dog outside alone that we have to babysit her. There is way to many wolves around here and with spring coming there will be a bunch more pups. They have to open a season soon.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6217124
04/14/18 05:05 PM
04/14/18 05:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 43
Wisconsin
B
black and tan Offline
trapper
black and tan  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 43
Wisconsin
I am an hour north of Madison the wolves are here.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6217142
04/14/18 05:41 PM
04/14/18 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,951
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,951
WI - Wisconsin
I believe it. They are spreading.


WTA Member
Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6217224
04/14/18 07:11 PM
04/14/18 07:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 716
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
trapper
rpmartin  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 716
S/W Wisconsin
They are most definitely spreading, and will continue until we are allowed to at least try to control the population. Thanks to everyone who emailed.


Life member,
NRA, NTA, RMEF, Pheasants Forever.
WTA,TTA,FTA,SA,member


Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6218006
04/15/18 03:22 PM
04/15/18 03:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,752
N.W. Iowa
T
Tactical.20 Offline
trapper
Tactical.20  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,752
N.W. Iowa
Hope you guys are able to control them soon

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: Tactical.20] #6309187
08/24/18 04:02 AM
08/24/18 04:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,951
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,951
WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Tactical.20
Hope you guys are able to control them soon
Talk seems to have fizzled. I haven't heard much about it. Paul Ryan doesn't seem overly enthused about such legislation. Our 2 Senators expressed interest, but maybe it was just cheap talk. Or maybe there's just not enough interest at the Federal level. Frustrating.


WTA Member
Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6309352
08/24/18 01:32 PM
08/24/18 01:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,549
SE Minn
R
Rat Masterson Offline
trapper
Rat Masterson  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,549
SE Minn
If the 5000 wolves in Mn aren't eating deer what are they eating? According to the locals my population estimate is closer than the state.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: Dirty D] #6309360
08/24/18 01:47 PM
08/24/18 01:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 733
SE WI
DuxDawg Offline
trapper
DuxDawg  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 733
SE WI
Originally Posted By: Dirty D
While agree with delisting and allowing state management I don't agree that our big game (deer) has been hurt by wolves.
Yes, wolves kill deer in the northern 1/2, but the southern 1/2 for now is wolf free. And the southern 1/2 could use a reduction in deer herd as there are too many now.
Wolves are not the limiting factor in the northern 1/2.


Buwahahahahahaha!!!

Somebody needs to get out in the woods. Like, EVER.

I've been stomping the SE, SC (South Central), Central, NE and NC WI woods since the 1970s. I remember when the WI DNR **INTRODUCED** wolves. The newspapers and DNR pamphlets cheered.

I remember the sizes of the herds, how they behaved, rearing success, etc. The post wolf introduction difference is NIGHT VS DAY.

The South wolf free?? Put down the crack pipe!


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
"We are fast approaching... rule by brute force."
-Ayn Rand
Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: Dirty D] #6309364
08/24/18 01:51 PM
08/24/18 01:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 733
SE WI
DuxDawg Offline
trapper
DuxDawg  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 733
SE WI

Originally Posted By: Dirty D
Wolves are here to stay. They have been here for thousands of years before and there is no reason they can't be here in the future. Get used to it.


Ha!
Wolves have been wiped out before. And will be again. Get used to it.


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
"We are fast approaching... rule by brute force."
-Ayn Rand
Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: B. Shope] #6309367
08/24/18 01:54 PM
08/24/18 01:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,314
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,314
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: B. Shope
No expensive study needed
Truth!


NRA and NTA Life Member





Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: DuxDawg] #6309374
08/24/18 02:05 PM
08/24/18 02:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 269
Central MN
Eric B Offline
trapper
Eric B  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 269
Central MN
Originally Posted By: DuxDawg
Wolves are here to stay. They have been here for thousands of years before and there is no reason they can't be here in the future. Get used to it.


Ha!
Wolves have been wiped out before. And will be again. Get used to it. [/quote]

I truly don't want to wipe them out. They are established where I am from. They're just way overpopulated. I wouldn't mind having them here, but only if I have the opportunity to harvest them. They don't respect people. Hunting would provide a large economic boost to the areas with established populations, reduce the populations to a better level, and give them a respect for people.

Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: Dirty D] #6309377
08/24/18 02:09 PM
08/24/18 02:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,024
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,024
Northern MN
Originally Posted By: Dirty D
While agree with delisting and allowing state management I don't agree that our big game (deer) has been hurt by wolves.
Yes, wolves kill deer in the northern 1/2, but the southern 1/2 for now is wolf free. And the southern 1/2 could use a reduction in deer herd as there are too many now.
Wolves are not the limiting factor in the northern 1/2.


I think that a better avenue for delisting should be developed. Its sounds like hunters are only concerned about the competition from wolves eating "their" deer.


Your as wrong now as you have always been on this topic. Not living with it your opinions are based on who knows what.

Osky



"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin] #6309466
08/24/18 06:06 PM
08/24/18 06:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,024
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,024
Northern MN
Maybe "D" can try learning a bit of truth. He asks if we are upset the deer and moose are gone because that means poor or no hunting.

Yes. That is a big part of it. Now D who do you think saves the major game populations when they are in trouble? We hunters, sportsmans groups, SCI, Ducks Unlimited..... etc. How many game and fowl populations have been restored and rescued across America and other countries by we the outdoorsman? Who is first to step up to the plate when help for wild populations of game and fowl, we the sportsman. How many wild animal or fowl populations that have been brought back with we the sportsmans time and money were then hunted or trapped back into danger? Precious few if any. Of our goal.

So yes, we want the wolves delisted and controlled so our deer and moose populations can recover and we can have successful and enjoyable hunts again. I'd like those hunts to be there for future generations as well, maybe more so at my age. If you want to hug wolves why don't you put a big ol fence around your place and I bet a bunch of sportsman me included would be happy to donate money to have wolves live trapped and delivered to your enclosure in fine and fit shape. Enjoy the heck out of them, we're all pulling for you.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

www.SureDockusa.com
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