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#6210697 - 04/07/18 09:11 AM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: walleye101]
Dirty D Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 274
Loc: east central WI
Originally Posted By: walleye101
Originally Posted By: Dirty D

I hope you get where I'm coming from.




Dirty D
I get where you are coming from but here is the story in Northern MN.

We have been way over the restoration goal for wolves for decades. Wolves have not "wiped out the deer herd", but they do in areas significantly deplete deer numbers. On the other hand, Moose have been in serious decline and really are in danger of being "wiped out". The fact that they we are no longer able to have a Moose season shows that wolves are in direct competition with hunters and in this case the wolf clearly won.

Back to deer though, from a preditor prey standpoint it would have been far better for the moose if the wolves had depleted the deer. As it is now, the deer are providing a prey buffer that keeps wolf density high even with a catistrophic decline in moose. With no decline in wolf abundance there is no predation relief for moose even at current low densities and they will continue to decline.

The reason folks distrust the "studies" is that MNDNR has for years been pointing to everything but wolves for the decline in moose, when there own data would suggest otherwise. It is only recently the some researchers are beginning to implicate high predation mortality on moose calves as the primary reason for the decline.


Your comment brings up an interesting point.
So the Moose Pop. is too small for human hunting. Wolves are eating a portion of the Moose population without doubt.
Do you truly care about the Moose population or do you care because you no longer can hunt Moose?
If the Moose population can stabilize and maybe slowly increase but there is never a Moose season again are you OK with that?
Just wondering what your true motivation is here. Is it all about you and your fun or do you really care about the Moose?



As far as Moose and deer, do you discount the Brainworm? Is that just made up by the MN DNR?
If its true then what % of the Moose that the wolves eat are weakened by the brainworm and are dying a slow death anyways?
Also if the brainworm is true would it be better for the Moose if the deer population in N. MN (where I've been told they are not native anyways by posters on this forum) to decline?
Or would you prefer the wolves be eliminated, Deer Populations increase and take your chances on the Moose coming back?

As far as eating calves, how about bears? don't they eat calves too?
They can be hunted right now, maybe we should have a open all year season, unlimited bag limits. After all they eat Moose calves too and we can do something about them.

All this predator/prey stuff is not so simple.

All of you with your Little Red Riding Hood mentalities better get used to it for your own sanity. I hear all the whining about wolves eating "your deer/Moose" and the "only good wolf is a dead wolf". There is nothing that can be done right now as far as wolves in the GL area. If or when they get delisted they will still remain. If the population of wolves declines too much after delisting the states will not allow harvesting. Wolves are here to stay. They have been here for thousands of years before and there is no reason they can't be here in the future. Get used to it.

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#6210719 - 04/07/18 09:40 AM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
Line Jumper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 364
Loc: Northern WI
Moose are native to Mn, in NE Mn there were moose and caribou, and few deer until the forests were logged and they followed the logging and new growth. There were two sustainable moose populations in N Mn until recently.

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#6210729 - 04/07/18 09:43 AM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
danny clifton Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11264
Loc: williamsburg ks
First moose I ever saw was off HWY1 in the early 80's
_________________________
Ban private vehicles now. They are killing too much wildlife and too many children.

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#6210736 - 04/07/18 09:47 AM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
Line Jumper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 364
Loc: Northern WI
Dirty D can we please keep this thread on target and argue wolf management on the other thread I started. I will respond to you on that thread.

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#6210739 - 04/07/18 09:51 AM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: danny clifton]
Line Jumper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 364
Loc: Northern WI
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
First moose I ever saw was off HWY1 in the early 80's


Danny I lived up in that neck of the woods in the mid 80's and it was a rare trip across hwy 1 without seeing at lease one moose, any time of the day.

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#6211961 - 04/08/18 03:33 PM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
Hunter4623* Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/18/17
Posts: 38
Loc: NJ
Email sent

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#6212188 - 04/08/18 08:39 PM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: Dirty D]
walleye101 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/13/08
Posts: 509
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Dirty D



Your comment brings up an interesting point.
So the Moose Pop. is too small for human hunting. Wolves are eating a portion of the Moose population without doubt.
Do you truly care about the Moose population or do you care because you no longer can hunt Moose?
If the Moose population can stabilize and maybe slowly increase but there is never a Moose season again are you OK with that?
Just wondering what your true motivation is here. Is it all about you and your fun or do you really care about the Moose?

As far as Moose and deer, do you discount the Brainworm? Is that just made up by the MN DNR?
If its true then what % of the Moose that the wolves eat are weakened by the brainworm and are dying a slow death anyways?
Also if the brainworm is true would it be better for the Moose if the deer population in N. MN (where I've been told they are not native anyways by posters on this forum) to decline?
Or would you prefer the wolves be eliminated, Deer Populations increase and take your chances on the Moose coming back?

As far as eating calves, how about bears? don't they eat calves too?
They can be hunted right now, maybe we should have a open all year season, unlimited bag limits. After all they eat Moose calves too and we can do something about them.

All this predator/prey stuff is not so simple.

All of you with your Little Red Riding Hood mentalities better get used to it for your own sanity. I hear all the whining about wolves eating "your deer/Moose" and the "only good wolf is a dead wolf". There is nothing that can be done right now as far as wolves in the GL area. If or when they get delisted they will still remain. If the population of wolves declines too much after delisting the states will not allow harvesting. Wolves are here to stay. They have been here for thousands of years before and there is no reason they can't be here in the future. Get used to it.


Settle down there Dirty D. whistle

Did I say anything about wanting to hunt moose? I've never hunted moose and most likely never will. My point was that it is a management failure when an iconic big game species has declined to the point that it can no longer support a hunting season. It should be every conservationists goal to restore the moose population back to where there could be sustainable harvest again. I'm kind of wondering what your true motivation is on this topic.

Did I say anything to discount brainworm? Brainworm effects mature adult moose, and is one source of mortality for adult moose. Wolves do prey on adult moose and some of those have brainworm. No matter what the various sources of adult mortality are, populations decline when adult mortality exceeds the rate of replacement by new calves. Moose calves are not dying or weakend by brainworm.

Nowhere in anything I wrote did I suggest eliminating wolves. I only advocated for active management of wolves to assist in moose recovery. Where do you get the idea that any active management of wolf densities will result in eliminating wolves?

Did I say bears don't eat moose calves? Yes they do and they to can be managed reasonably with seasons and limits. Nobody is suggesting predators be eliminated.

And what is the point of the derogatory "Little Red Riding Hood" comment? Sounds to me like you're the one doing the whining. Yes when wolves get delisted they will still remain. That is the point of an active management program.

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#6213829 - 04/10/18 02:06 PM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
coykill Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 450
Loc: Upper Peninsula, Mi
email also sent. We have a cabin 30 miles north of our home that is over run with wolves. My wife and I called in 5 of them calling for coyotes to 23 yards in front of us. It is nothing to take a ride and see wolf tracks. A few weeks ago we seen tracks and followed them on snowmobile and found a fawn with the ribcage eaten off and that is it. Are they killing for fun? Last night here at home my wife walked our black lab and found a fawn along the driveway that looked like the fawn we seen at the cabin. We are so paranoid about letting our dog outside alone that we have to babysit her. There is way to many wolves around here and with spring coming there will be a bunch more pups. They have to open a season soon.

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#6217124 - 04/14/18 12:05 PM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
black and tan Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/30/14
Posts: 37
Loc: Wisconsin
I am an hour north of Madison the wolves are here.

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#6217142 - 04/14/18 12:41 PM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
AJE Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 3269
Loc: WI - Wisconsin
I believe it. They are spreading.
_________________________
WTA Member

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#6217224 - 04/14/18 02:11 PM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
rpmartin Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/03/14
Posts: 712
Loc: S/W Wisconsin
They are most definitely spreading, and will continue until we are allowed to at least try to control the population. Thanks to everyone who emailed.
_________________________
Life member
NRA, NTA, RMEF, Pheasants Forever.
WTA,TTA,FTA member

AKA the thread killer

Fill more beaver....................traps


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#6218006 - 04/15/18 10:22 AM Re: NTA e-mail about wolf delisting [Re: rpmartin]
Tactical.20 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 12554
Loc: N.W. Iowa
Hope you guys are able to control them soon

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