No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products

Joe Goodman Prints
Please support Joe Goodman because he supports us with donations


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Type 2 diabetes #6209261
04/05/18 11:09 PM
04/05/18 11:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,316
West Michigan
G
Getting There Offline OP
trapper
Getting There  Offline OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,316
West Michigan
I have had type 2 diabetes for about 5 years, I take a pile twice a day at meal time. I have never check my Blood Glucose level. So I purchased a meter etc. My levels where higher than I would like but not bad. BUT this morning I did not take my pill, my number more the doubled. So the morel of the story do not forget your pills. I see my Doc. twice a year. He felt using a meter did not help solve anything WRONG it opened my eyes, end of story.


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209267
04/05/18 11:23 PM
04/05/18 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
Do yourself a favor and learn how to eat to avoid carbohydrates. The longer you have it, the more your body buids up insulin resistance, making it harder to control. Check out the atkins diet, it is very good for diabetics, but you have to be willing to give up a lot of foods that you would love to eat. Been a type 2 for right at twenty years now. Good control of your blood glucose will let you lead a normal life, but your numbers need to be under 130 to avoid damage to your body! Good luck.


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209284
04/05/18 11:56 PM
04/05/18 11:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 40
orange co, nc
B
brisket Offline
trapper
brisket  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 40
orange co, nc
have a good friend with type 2, he eat a hand full of pills several times a day but he still had a hard time controlling his blood sugar. One day at work the client was telling us how he cured his type 2 with diet and intermittent fasting., so gary went home and did some research. Two days later he threw all his pills away, started fasting and changed what and when he ate. It's been two and a half years now and his A1C is normal not even pre diabetic. He was also able to recover from alot of the nerve pain he was having. If you or anyone else is interested in the information he found you can youtube Jason Fung M.D. this will lead you to other doctors of the same mindset too.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209317
04/06/18 12:40 AM
04/06/18 12:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 840
NH
S
sgs Offline
trapper
sgs  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 840
NH
I cured my diabetes with a ketogenic diet. Type 2 is a lifstyle disease. It's your choice.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209381
04/06/18 02:06 AM
04/06/18 02:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
No such thing as a cure for type 2 diabetes. The correct term is you have it in remission. In other words, as long as you keep doing the right thing you're fine but go back to old bad habits and it will be right back.

With diet and exercise I went from a 7.5 A1c down to 5.9 in 4 months via changes in diet and exercise. Then I quit doing those things and a year and a half later I was tested at 9.6 A1c. I am now taking it seriously and the doc has me on Metformin (which I can hardly wait to get off of). I have dropped from 210 to 190 since Feb 14th. I have almost entirely removed carbs from the diet and have practiced intermittent fasting (which my doc takes a dim view of).

I am 6'1, so 190 is pretty close to where I think I should be weight wise, but I still need to get a little flab off of the abdomen. Belly fat is strongly correlated to type 2 diabetes. Get rid of it, and almost always the diabetes will be controlled.


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209423
04/06/18 03:04 AM
04/06/18 03:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,927
Idaville, Indiana
M
MB750 Offline
trapper
MB750  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,927
Idaville, Indiana
I have been taking pills for 4 or 5 years now + giving myself a shot, 70 units once a day.


For years I have been tomstrap, now I must change because of the whims of the cyber world. NRA Endowment, ISTA Life, FTA Life, NTA
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209525
04/06/18 07:38 AM
04/06/18 07:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 109
UK
FoxExterminator Offline
trapper
FoxExterminator  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 109
UK
I was diagnosed on 30-12-2017...got one of those tester kits (free here in the UK plus as a diabetic I now qualify for all free meds etc from now on....(the National Health Service here in the UK is one of the very good things about living here...similar health service in Ireland)
anyway I was only taking 1 x 500mg metformin a day...doc prescribed 2000mg...my blood sugar level was 18.6...it was even higher previously...so I upped the dose to 1000mg a day and stopped drinking diet cokes and diet pepsis ...blood sugars bonce now between 7 and 13 ....was off the choccies and biscuits and desserts for 3 solid months....hardest thing I ever done....but last week decided enough was enough and treated myself for a few days to old habits.....
its a balance thing IMO....do you want to eating porridge and drink water and live to be 100 or enjoy life and die around 70 years of age.... as a friend of mine who also has type 2 said to me recently....he is tired of being a victim!
I will be a victim mostly because I have very young children to care for but occasionally I will stop being a victim and enjoy a little binge on sweet treats (I just stop testing myself for a few days when I do that smile )


If there's something strange in your neighborhood
and it don't look good
Who you gonna call (FoxExterminator)
I ain't afraid of no fox
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209540
04/06/18 09:56 AM
04/06/18 09:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 840
NH
S
sgs Offline
trapper
sgs  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 840
NH
"No such thing as a cure for type 2 diabetes. The correct term is you have it in remission."

You just don't know the definition of the word "cure" evidently.

The point is, type 2 diabetes is a choice for most people.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209606
04/06/18 12:06 PM
04/06/18 12:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Good info guys. they say I"m Pre-diabetic or just above. got to make changes now or pay later.
Doctor's giving me 90 days to get my act together or a pill to solve. I really dont want that so all your ideas is interesting!

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209611
04/06/18 12:12 PM
04/06/18 12:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
A very good website with loads of info on the subject is Diabetes Daily. I thought I knew about diabetes till I got on there, and there are a lot of eye opening links there. I don't binge anymore, all it does is come back to haunt you! Diet is what it is about!


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209614
04/06/18 12:15 PM
04/06/18 12:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,827
Philippines,,ohio
west river rogue Offline
trapper
west river rogue  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,827
Philippines,,ohio
philippines living took away most of mine....eating alot of trees,weeds etc. sick


http://philippinebolomachete.weebly.com/ 52 yrs trapping on 2 continents and 5 states usa
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: west river rogue] #6209623
04/06/18 12:24 PM
04/06/18 12:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,316
West Michigan
G
Getting There Offline OP
trapper
Getting There  Offline OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,316
West Michigan
Originally Posted By: west river rogue
philippines living took away most of mine....eating alot of trees,weeds etc. sick


You see it is all about diet. LOL


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209689
04/06/18 01:38 PM
04/06/18 01:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,049
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,049
Ky
Originally Posted By: Getting There
I have had type 2 diabetes for about 5 years, I take a pile twice a day at meal time. I have never check my Blood Glucose level. So I purchased a meter etc. My levels where higher than I would like but not bad. BUT this morning I did not take my pill, my number more the doubled. So the morel of the story do not forget your pills. I see my Doc. twice a year. He felt using a meter did not help solve anything WRONG it opened my eyes, end of story.


You are the classic tale of what may go wrong. Most Dr can drop the ball when they tell you that you have diabetes. THE FIRST thing they should do is give you a meter. Then you have an ideal how some foods effect you. It lets you know if you are taking the right meds. Or even if you need a higher dose. ANY Dr that tells you that you are diabetic and instantly doesn't tell you how to get and use a meter is a quack !!!!

I am speaking as a person whos wife is a diabetic of 41 years !!!! She test her blood 5 times a day. More if she gets sick or has a steroid injection. To date she has had NO diabetic side effects . Only one cataract on her eye. Good luck and remember it is a constant battle !!!!!

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: MB750] #6209694
04/06/18 01:40 PM
04/06/18 01:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,049
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,049
Ky
Originally Posted By: MB750
I have been taking pills for 4 or 5 years now + giving myself a shot, 70 units once a day.


DANG hope you have a good endoctronologist That sounds like a lot of insulin for just one shot.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6209696
04/06/18 01:42 PM
04/06/18 01:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 880
northern New York
Fisherman Offline
trapper
Fisherman  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 880
northern New York
I'm type 2, am on metformin and glipizide. What has really helped me is to stop eating desserts and pasta. Big thing is exercise, even it is only walking. Don't be a couch potatoe.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213392
04/10/18 11:17 AM
04/10/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
I was wondering if you all have thoughts on the artificial sweeteners and if they affect you or your blood levels? like equal, stevia, monk fruit etc? before i start using it in earnest I would like some ideas from you?

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213410
04/10/18 11:40 AM
04/10/18 11:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,316
West Michigan
G
Getting There Offline OP
trapper
Getting There  Offline OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,316
West Michigan
I do not use any artificial sweeteners. My wife uses sugar but I do not eat many of the old goodies. I hope this helps.


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Ronaround] #6213420
04/10/18 11:50 AM
04/10/18 11:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,915
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,915
SEPA
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
I was wondering if you all have thoughts on the artificial sweeteners and if they affect you or your blood levels? like equal, stevia, monk fruit etc? before i start using it in earnest I would like some ideas from you?


Stevia is a natural sweetener. that's what we use. You have to be careful about how it was processed and what was added to it or taken away from it. My wife gets us stuff that is supposedly minimally processed and 100% natural.

I haven't had sugar or artificial sweeteners for over a year now, except what is added to processed food.


Eh...wot?
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213426
04/10/18 11:55 AM
04/10/18 11:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
The natural sweetner, stevia is a good choice, but the others, equal, splenda and a host of others are really not "good" for diabetics. I have learned to enjoy my food with no sweetners, and that was after growing up with a mom that had to put sugar on her tomatoes! It is an aquired taste, and old habits are hard to change, but if you have diabetes.....change you must!


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213440
04/10/18 12:18 PM
04/10/18 12:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Hey I did sugar on my mators when I was young too. grin
thanks guys!

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213484
04/10/18 01:12 PM
04/10/18 01:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
A
acrews145 Offline
trapper
acrews145  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
As a nurse, I see many people with the complications of diabetes. Most of the time it is because they just do not take care of themselves or take the time to understand the disease process. Type 2 diabetes is about insulin resistance. The body makes insulin like it is supposed to, but it cannot be used because the body is resistant. Diet and exercise are the key components for controlling the disease and staying off meds. Most insurance providers will pay for a consult with a registered dietician to learn how to count carbs and modify your diet so you are not deprived but are making smart choices. Artificial sugars are not a substitute for moderation as they "trick" your body into thinking it is getting real sugar. In 10 years working in the ED, I have only seen a handful of people actually take their disease serious and utilize the resources available to them. As far as the ketogenic diets, they can help but are hard on the kidneys long term due to the high amounts of protein. Moderation is key and this is where the dietician comes in. Hope this helps.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213545
04/10/18 02:21 PM
04/10/18 02:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
Good stuff that rings of truth acrews. What is your take on intermittent fasting to get rid of abdominal fat?


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213554
04/10/18 02:30 PM
04/10/18 02:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
so your saying the pancreas makes the insulin but whos fighting it in the body?
is there any work out here for a fix to this?

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213566
04/10/18 02:47 PM
04/10/18 02:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
JakeDog Offline
trapper
JakeDog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
I use stevia "whole earth" I call it hippie sugar - Not sure it is not processed or made in a factory/labratory though it says 100% natural??? seems shady - It says on the package OK for diabetics and it is what my doc recommended.

I dont use it in anything much other than a touch in tea -


Suppression rules/prevention drools

Confidence is going fly fishing for Moby Dick, in a row boat, and bringing tartar sauce with you.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Ronaround] #6213567
04/10/18 02:49 PM
04/10/18 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
JakeDog Offline
trapper
JakeDog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
so your saying the pancreas makes the insulin but whos fighting it in the body?
is there any work out here for a fix to this?


??????? With type 2 your cells are just insulin resistant - no workout designed specifically just exercise in general can help the cells be more receptive to insulin.

In type one your body attacks itself specifically the islets of langhem (sp?, or I am off on my word totally) and destroys them taking away your ability to produce insulin, then you get a pump installed! LOL

J

Last edited by JakeDog; 04/10/18 02:52 PM.

Suppression rules/prevention drools

Confidence is going fly fishing for Moby Dick, in a row boat, and bringing tartar sauce with you.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213569
04/10/18 02:55 PM
04/10/18 02:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
JakeDog Offline
trapper
JakeDog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
I have mine controlled back down to a A1c of 5.6 -

just diet and crossfit - no meds taken - running bet with doc I can maintain though think next office visit will go bad as I have been slack on the exercise here lately chasing daughters soccer tourneys all over the east coast - been slackin!


Suppression rules/prevention drools

Confidence is going fly fishing for Moby Dick, in a row boat, and bringing tartar sauce with you.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: beaverpeeler] #6213590
04/10/18 03:25 PM
04/10/18 03:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
A
acrews145 Offline
trapper
acrews145  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
Originally Posted By: beaverpeeler
Good stuff that rings of truth acrews. What is your take on intermittent fasting to get rid of abdominal fat?

Intermittent fasting does not really work in the long term. This just starves your body and makes it hold on to what it has. This is why fad diets do not last. The most effective way to lose weight and keep it off is changing your eating habits and adding exercise. Weight watchers is a great program for this. It does not eliminate anything, but supports moderation. This is why it works and people have long term results. Consult with a dietician is recommended before starting for diabetics because the program preaches eat all of the fruits and veggies you want. These have hidden sugars and carbs which affect glucose.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213593
04/10/18 03:27 PM
04/10/18 03:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Good point. low glycemic berries only.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: JakeDog] #6213594
04/10/18 03:28 PM
04/10/18 03:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
A
acrews145 Offline
trapper
acrews145  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
Originally Posted By: JakeDog
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
so your saying the pancreas makes the insulin but whos fighting it in the body?
is there any work out here for a fix to this?


??????? With type 2 your cells are just insulin resistant - no workout designed specifically just exercise in general can help the cells be more receptive to insulin.

In type one your body attacks itself specifically the islets of langhem (sp?, or I am off on my word totally) and destroys them taking away your ability to produce insulin, then you get a pump installed! LOL

J

You are correct. Type 1 diabetics do not have the ability to produce insulin and type 2 produce insulin but are unable to use it. This is why type 2 diabetics can "fix" their condition and type 1 cannot. BTW it's Langerhans, but you were close!

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213606
04/10/18 03:47 PM
04/10/18 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
Well, I'll see how it goes, but intermittent fasting seemed to really help me push off some of the belly fat. I've lost 20 lbs since Feb 14th, and my current BMI is 24.9 (considered normal weight). I am at the goal I set for myself weight wise and continue to take it easy on the carbs and eat lots of veggies, fish, etc. I also am visiting the swimming pool three times a weeks and doing some weights. I'm hoping my A1c makes a drastic improvement from the 9.6 in mid February so that I can get off of Metformin.


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213608
04/10/18 03:52 PM
04/10/18 03:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
JakeDog Offline
trapper
JakeDog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
I couldnt remember for the life of me but I was close!! LOL thanks for the correction - And what is it - we drink alot and pee alot because our bodies sense higher levels of sugar in the blood and are trying to balance it out?

J


Suppression rules/prevention drools

Confidence is going fly fishing for Moby Dick, in a row boat, and bringing tartar sauce with you.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: beaverpeeler] #6213610
04/10/18 03:54 PM
04/10/18 03:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
JakeDog Offline
trapper
JakeDog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,043
Morehead city NC
Originally Posted By: beaverpeeler
Well, I'll see how it goes, but intermittent fasting seemed to really help me push off some of the belly fat. I've lost 20 lbs since Feb 14th, and my current BMI is 24.9 (considered normal weight). I am at the goal I set for myself weight wise and continue to take it easy on the carbs and eat lots of veggies, fish, etc. I also am visiting the swimming pool three times a weeks and doing some weights. I'm hoping my A1c makes a drastic improvement from the 9.6 in mid February so that I can get off of Metformin.


that 20lbs should help alot if you keep eating right - good job BTW too that is awesome. I went from 210 to 172 not seem to be hovering around 185 which is fine for me.

Need get back in the crossfit gym - it really helps keep me down on the weight.

J


Suppression rules/prevention drools

Confidence is going fly fishing for Moby Dick, in a row boat, and bringing tartar sauce with you.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213646
04/10/18 04:43 PM
04/10/18 04:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
Ha ha, that is my start out weight too, 210. I'm 188 this morning. If I went down to 185 that would be what I weighed when I was 25 (36 years ago).
Good job Jake! My doc seems to think that I need to be on meds from here on out and I'm not buying it. LOL Hope I can hit your A1c at my next blood draw.


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: JakeDog] #6213647
04/10/18 04:44 PM
04/10/18 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
A
acrews145 Offline
trapper
acrews145  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
Originally Posted By: JakeDog
I couldnt remember for the life of me but I was close!! LOL thanks for the correction - And what is it - we drink alot and pee alot because our bodies sense higher levels of sugar in the blood and are trying to balance it out?

J

The kidneys handle the excretion and absorption of extra glucose so you pee more which triggers extra thirst and starts a cycle.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213729
04/10/18 05:51 PM
04/10/18 05:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
acrews, my doc also prescribed Losartan. I thought that was for high blood pressure of which I'm just a smidge over normal. Any idea on that?


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6213733
04/10/18 05:54 PM
04/10/18 05:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
I still say the biggest thing you can do for yourself is cut your carb intake, especially if your wearing belly fat. When I went on my diet about a year and a half ago, I weighed my normal (all my life) 175#. With in a month of eating like I do now, I lost 15 lbs. I thought my doc would have a fit, instead she loved it. Said I was doing the right stuff! It took my body about a month to readjust to the diet, but now I have more energy than I've had in ten years! I have moderated my carb intake slightly, but still don't eat but about 40 carbs a day, but have increased my fat intake quite a bit. Mostly poly and mono fats, and try not to eat too much saturated fats. Works for me, and my lipids were perfect the last two check ups.


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: beaverpeeler] #6214157
04/11/18 12:51 AM
04/11/18 12:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
A
acrews145 Offline
trapper
acrews145  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Virginia
Originally Posted By: beaverpeeler
acrews, my doc also prescribed Losartan. I thought that was for high blood pressure of which I'm just a smidge over normal. Any idea on that?

Losartan is for high blood pressure and they recently lowered the standards for what is considered high. Now anything over 130 is considered hypertensive. When I first became a nurse normal glucose was less than 120, now is 100. Some wonder if it's so more prescriptions can be written leading to more money going to drug companies vs actually improving health.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: acrews145] #6214250
04/11/18 02:38 AM
04/11/18 02:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
Originally Posted By: acrews145
Originally Posted By: beaverpeeler
acrews, my doc also prescribed Losartan. I thought that was for high blood pressure of which I'm just a smidge over normal. Any idea on that?

Losartan is for high blood pressure and they recently lowered the standards for what is considered high. Now anything over 130 is considered hypertensive. When I first became a nurse normal glucose was less than 120, now is 100. Some wonder if it's so more prescriptions can be written leading to more money going to drug companies vs actually improving health.


All about $$$$$. New standards for BP is systolic <120 diastolic <80. Fasting glucose 100 or less. Nurse told me laughingly the AMA will make everyone a diabetic.
If you are on blood pressure meds (I am) that means at least 1 yearly trip to the doc.

Like you said acrews145, used to be under 120 for glucose.

Last edited by ratbrain; 04/11/18 02:42 AM.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6214847
04/11/18 09:53 PM
04/11/18 09:53 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,706
michigan,USA
S
seniortrap Offline
trapper
seniortrap  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,706
michigan,USA
Quote:
The kidneys handle the excretion and absorption of extra glucose so you pee more which triggers extra thirst and starts a cycle.


That answers the 3:00am potty call.


Vietnam--1967 46th. Const./Combat Engineers

"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction."
"After the first shot, all plans go out the window!"
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6214922
04/11/18 11:46 PM
04/11/18 11:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Online happy
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Online Happy
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Off the meds and just got back to 2 year CDL medical Certification. Oh happy day!


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6215001
04/12/18 01:12 AM
04/12/18 01:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
Good on you Hobbie. Keep on truckin'!


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6219130
04/16/18 05:08 PM
04/16/18 05:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
Off the meds and just got back to 2 year CDL medical Certification. Oh happy day!


Congratulations Hobbie.
tell us how you did it

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219197
04/16/18 06:26 PM
04/16/18 06:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 602
lewis county,new york
N
newfox1 Offline
trapper
newfox1  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 602
lewis county,new york
Been diabetic 18 years was treated as type2 at first now type1 for you guys who are on the metformin it's all the time that you spend in the bathroom that's contributing to the weight loss.i have a pump now.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219207
04/16/18 06:48 PM
04/16/18 06:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
Metformin has not made me have diarrhea if that's what you're referring to.


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: newfox1] #6219209
04/16/18 06:49 PM
04/16/18 06:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,615
Sauk County, WI
Patrice Offline
"Tman Feed Gestapo"
Patrice  Offline
"Tman Feed Gestapo"

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,615
Sauk County, WI
Guys, for those of you looking for low carb ideas for meals, I brought my low carb cooking thread back up to the top.

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6219205#Post6219205

I know a bunch of people now who ate their way out of Type 2 and no longer need any meds for diabetes or blood pressure which drops along with your insulin levels. If you're interested, you might see some ideas there.

Good luck to you all!
Patrice


WTA District 9 Director ... Go D9!
Member: WTA, Intertel, Mensa (Trappers ain't stupid.)
Life Member: NRA
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219211
04/16/18 06:54 PM
04/16/18 06:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
Just took a look. What time is supper served at your place?! I'd hate to be late.


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219221
04/16/18 07:12 PM
04/16/18 07:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
wow thats looking better as a meal than I have had for the last 6 weeks of this low carb pre diabetes before I get my next A1C.
fighting to get it hovering around 100-120

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Ronaround] #6219292
04/16/18 09:51 PM
04/16/18 09:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Online happy
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Online Happy
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
Off the meds and just got back to 2 year CDL medical Certification. Oh happy day!


Congratulations Hobbie.
tell us how you did it


If it taste good, spit it out. lol

Not quite that bad but definitely a life style change.

I stop eating long before I quit being hungry.

Sugar in is measured as is the salt.

Walking and calisthenics.

Those things caused weight loss.

I didn't take it serious until my blood pressure started to climb.

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 04/16/18 11:59 PM. Reason: Spelling

"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: beaverpeeler] #6219359
04/16/18 11:55 PM
04/16/18 11:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,615
Sauk County, WI
Patrice Offline
"Tman Feed Gestapo"
Patrice  Offline
"Tman Feed Gestapo"

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,615
Sauk County, WI
Originally Posted By: beaverpeeler
Just took a look. What time is supper served at your place?! I'd hate to be late.


C'mon over, Beeverpeeler! We always have extra for TMan members! grin


WTA District 9 Director ... Go D9!
Member: WTA, Intertel, Mensa (Trappers ain't stupid.)
Life Member: NRA
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219611
04/17/18 10:50 AM
04/17/18 10:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
So as a new learner trying to get it controlled by diet.Dr. gave me june 28th as my test day to see how my A1C comes out. How do any if at all deal with Beer on occasions? or any hard liquor recommendations that are not bad...betting none.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219757
04/17/18 02:37 PM
04/17/18 02:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
B
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,333
Oregon
I went completely without alcohol for 6 weeks while dropping 20 lbs and now that I'm at my desired weight an occasional beer or wine. All in moderation. My weight is staying where I want it so I feel OK about the occasional indulgence.

But what do I know?


Yesterday our heritage, tomorrow our legacy�today our responsibility.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Ronaround] #6219777
04/17/18 03:06 PM
04/17/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Online happy
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Online Happy
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
So as a new learner trying to get it controlled by diet.Dr. gave me june 28th as my test day to see how my A1C comes out. How do any if at all deal with Beer on occasions? or any hard liquor recommendations that are not bad...betting none.


I drink 3 beers a year and maybe 3 glasses of wine. Doesn't appear to have any adverse effects.


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Ronaround] #6219781
04/17/18 03:13 PM
04/17/18 03:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,827
Philippines,,ohio
west river rogue Offline
trapper
west river rogue  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,827
Philippines,,ohio
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
So as a new learner trying to get it controlled by diet.Dr. gave me june 28th as my test day to see how my A1C comes out. How do any if at all deal with Beer on occasions? or any hard liquor recommendations that are not bad...betting none.
beer is fine!! i throw it over my right shoulder!!!


http://philippinebolomachete.weebly.com/ 52 yrs trapping on 2 continents and 5 states usa
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219783
04/17/18 03:14 PM
04/17/18 03:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Online happy
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Online Happy
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
lol


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219845
04/17/18 04:15 PM
04/17/18 04:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
Diabetes can be controlled.
But let me say one thing. There is no such thing as PRE- DIABETES or PRE- HYPERTENSION. Another term the AMA came up with. Either you have diabetes or you don't. You have high blood pressure or you don't.

Oh and A1C has been shown to be a flawed test.

Last edited by ratbrain; 04/17/18 04:16 PM.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219848
04/17/18 04:21 PM
04/17/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Online happy
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Online Happy
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
I don't know that it's flawed as much as how they try to put everyone in the same box with it.

It seemed pretty spot on when mine was 15. Drinking and peeing constantly, double/ghost vision. Everything but the stroke. lol


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6219851
04/17/18 04:28 PM
04/17/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
I don't know that it's flawed as much as how they try to put everyone in the same box with it.

It seemed pretty spot on when mine was 15. Drinking and peeing constantly, double/ghost vision. Everything but the stroke. lol


WOW Hobbie that is HIGH! 5.7 and below is what they shoot for right.
Certain meds can raise glucose readings. My BP med does.
Funny (or not so funny) story is my doc did blood work one physical and A1C was iffy (5.8) and fasting glucose was 100.
Later that summer my life insurance did a complete physical on me and my A1C was middle of the road reading (can't remember but wasn't near 5.7) and fasting glucose was 82.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219855
04/17/18 04:30 PM
04/17/18 04:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
Then last years physical I ate before going in (I forgot about blood draw DUH!)and my Non-fasting glucose was 84.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: ratbrain] #6219865
04/17/18 04:52 PM
04/17/18 04:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Originally Posted By: ratbrain
Diabetes can be controlled.
But let me say one thing. There is no such thing as PRE- DIABETES or PRE- HYPERTENSION. Another term the AMA came up with. Either you have diabetes or you don't. You have high blood pressure or you don't.

Oh and A1C has been shown to be a flawed test.



that's probably a true statement. lets say if I dont get it down in 90 days I get metaform. so i'm trying to eat right and test 2x day and learn from All your inputs.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Ronaround] #6219871
04/17/18 04:58 PM
04/17/18 04:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Online happy
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Online Happy
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 11,523
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
Originally Posted By: ratbrain
Diabetes can be controlled.
But let me say one thing. There is no such thing as PRE- DIABETES or PRE- HYPERTENSION. Another term the AMA came up with. Either you have diabetes or you don't. You have high blood pressure or you don't.

Oh and A1C has been shown to be a flawed test.



that's probably a true statement. lets say if I dont get it down in 90 days I get metaform. so i'm trying to eat right and test 2x day and learn from All your inputs.


You can do it.


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6219877
04/17/18 05:14 PM
04/17/18 05:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted By: Ronaround
[quote=ratbrain]Diabetes can be controlled.
But let me say one thing. There is no such thing as PRE- DIABETES or PRE- HYPERTENSION. Another term the AMA came up with. Either you have diabetes or you don't. You have high blood pressure or you don't.




that's probably a true statement. lets say if I dont get it down in 90 days I get metaform. so i'm trying to eat right and test 2x day and learn from All your inputs.


You can do it.


X -2!!!!!!

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219881
04/17/18 05:16 PM
04/17/18 05:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
Ronaround Do you see a GP or a specialist for your blood sugar??

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219907
04/17/18 06:11 PM
04/17/18 06:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
And please let me explain, I am no expert, doctor etc. However I have been married to a an RN for many years. And these conversations pop up now and then.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219916
04/17/18 06:23 PM
04/17/18 06:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
GP as this was discovered in my last blood test in mid march. hes seems quite concerned but i asked for me to make a difference first before just putting me on meds for this.he said 90 days.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219930
04/17/18 06:39 PM
04/17/18 06:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
Ronaround, there is a website called Diabetes Daily. Google that and there is a wealth of info on it. That is where I learned of Dr Bernstein's work and they had excerpts from his book there too. Lot's of good info that you can't get from a doctor!


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: lee steinmeyer] #6219945
04/17/18 07:04 PM
04/17/18 07:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Originally Posted By: lee steinmeyer
Ronaround, there is a website called Diabetes Daily. Google that and there is a wealth of info on it. That is where I learned of Dr Bernstein's work and they had excerpts from his book there too. Lot's of good info that you can't get from a doctor!


Lee> thanks I will be sure to check it out and keep it on my daily list to visit.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219948
04/17/18 07:05 PM
04/17/18 07:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
I have to give your doc credit instead of immediately starting drugs. I wonder if you have improved significantly in 3 mos if he/she will give you more time???

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219949
04/17/18 07:07 PM
04/17/18 07:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
i'm hoping, just starting to see it being better, before dinner 114-118 mornings 126-138. but working on it.

was tested originally 180 on fast in march.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6219957
04/17/18 07:24 PM
04/17/18 07:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
R
ratbrain Offline
trapper
ratbrain  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,194
Illinois
Keep going!!! Keep it up!!!!

Last edited by ratbrain; 04/17/18 07:25 PM.
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: ratbrain] #6220106
04/17/18 10:17 PM
04/17/18 10:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,221
Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted By: ratbrain
Keep going!!! Keep it up!!!!


Yep, that's the attitude you have to have! I just don't cheat anymore....it's not worth it. It is a daily struggle to keep blood sugars in line, and I know you don't want to hear this, Ronaround, but the longer you have it the worse the insulin resistence gets. At least it has for me! As you age, you lose a lot of ambition, and that exorcise is the next important thing to the diet. Cold days this time of year, I don't feel like walking and if I skip it, up goes the glucose! It is a constant battle! Good luck and feel free to ask any questions!


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6220417
04/18/18 10:50 AM
04/18/18 10:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
Ronaround Online content
trapper
Ronaround  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,446
N.E.Ohio
thanks guys. was 108 before dinner last night and 109 this morn. Happy, but as you say this is a marathon ,not a race for us.

Re: Type 2 diabetes [Re: Getting There] #6228789
04/28/18 06:06 PM
04/28/18 06:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 80
Arizona
S
Starbits Offline
trapper
Starbits  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 80
Arizona
Found out in January that I was diabetic. Since then I started watching carbs and changed my diet a bit. Since Jan I have lost 15 pounds and my A1C went from 7.1 to 6.1. Headed in the right direction.

Starbits

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread