Building a cabin?
#6217860
04/15/18 08:59 AM
04/15/18 08:59 AM
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bass10
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Well guys I am tired of googling this and decided to ask where I may actually get answers. I am not the most construction educated but am finding out if you ask 10 different people you get 10 different answers. I am wanting to break ground on a 28' x 36' cabin. I have decided to go with a foundation. I was not going to have a crawl space, just back fill after block and cement. I have two semi retired contractors that will be doing most of the work but I need to guide them to what I want. this is the general slope of where its going and the actual design I want. It will have two stories but I want the top floor only 1/2 to 3/4 of the cabin so it overlooks the kitchen, living area. The contractors are trying to talk me out of the gable roof but I like the looks as I think its more cabin/barn looking? If I stay with the gable roof can I lift the top level to have 8' sides so its not shorter with the roof. Also, contractors is trying to push putting down floor joists and wood flooring as they say it will be too cold without. I just don't understand why I'd put down $6000 worth of concrete and still do this? I hope to keep this thread open as I will have lots of questions and like others I'd like to update progress along the way as I thought that was pretty cool. Any advise or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by bass10; 04/15/18 09:01 AM.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6217870
04/15/18 09:08 AM
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The term for that style roof is "gambrel" not gable. It is a good idea to create more usable space on the second floor.
Are you pouring a slab on grade? It doesn't sound like it if you are going to have a crawlspace. If you are building foundation walls then I agree with your contractors, set floor joists and wood sub-floor. It makes a better job.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6217932
04/15/18 10:15 AM
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My Dad was a contractor and did my in-laws place in northern WI. He did a crawl space for the pest factor, and the gain of short headroom storage, the wood floor I think is a must either way.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6217955
04/15/18 10:39 AM
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I'd advise keeping an open mind with your builders. I tend to agree with them on the thoughts you posted, and, many you did not lol. IME, when the inexperienced "guides" the experienced, value vs cost can suffer. Try to communicate your thoughts and ideas and ask why they have theirs. Initial planning is important, and so is all being on the same page.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: racerboy108]
#6217956
04/15/18 10:40 AM
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The only thing I don't like about gambrel roofs is they have little ventilation.
If you build a soffit into them they can be vented the same as a standard gable roof with vented soffit and a ridge vent. You just have to make sure air can flow through the plates at the pitch breaks. In the pic above the porch would need vented soffit on the part of the roof overhanging the beam, or a couple of vented panels on the porch rafters inside the beam.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6217978
04/15/18 10:59 AM
04/15/18 10:59 AM
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GREENCOUNTYPETE
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you have 2 options it would seem with the foundation
you have to lay foundation walls , with footers and concrete block
1 fill with gravel and then do concrete floor with vapor barrier and insulation under the concrete
2 leave a crawl space and insulate the walls.
I would take option 3 or 4
if your building on a grade like that I would do half crawl space on the uphills side and a full on the down hill side , you already have to keep you footings 4 feet below grade so what is 3 more coarse of block to have a usable basement
you can make it just a gravel floor with a pad to have the furnace and hot water heater on
4 do a full basement with full 8 foot ceilings a great place to have a shop , storage , and while it will cost more up front , your building a house larger than the one my family of 5 lives in , it will be worth much much more as a full house with a full basement yet most jurisdictions don't charge taxes for unfinished basement square footage.
as for the roof , materials wise it is virtually the same to do the barn type roof or a strait wall with a roof the same angle as the porch , yes it is more siding and less roofing , but then you can have windows all along that 36 foot wall up high for great ventilation and light
maybe the first question should have been will this cabin larger than my house have electricity and plumbing? I assumed it would. even if you never store a thing in the basement it is a great way to make your heating , water and electrical much easier to run and access later as well as keep a space warm
I had a 24x26 garage at my last house with a barn roof like that and a finished room above you give up a bunch of the space to those side walls about 2-3 feet on each side depending on slope and the loss of being able to have windows for light and ventilation the room was 18 x 26 with a cut out for the stairs it had 3 windows in the room they were north south and not east west the way the wind normally blew so even with the windows all open it was hard to catch a breeze.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#6218020
04/15/18 11:30 AM
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4 do a full basement with full 8 foot ceilings a great place to have a shop , storage , and while it will cost more up front , your building a house larger than the one my family of 5 lives in , it will be worth much much more as a full house with a full basement yet most jurisdictions don't charge taxes for unfinished basement square footage.
I agree with this option and always recommend it to my customers who are considering crawlspaces. GREENCOUNTYPETE's assessment of this option is spot on and hits many of the points I use to try and convince my customers.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6218041
04/15/18 11:46 AM
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I too would go full basement. NEVER seem to have enough storage space.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6218084
04/15/18 12:39 PM
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I'm a contractor. You just got some great advise. Be wise and use it. Your contractors will appreciate doing a project done correctly.
I trap for fun. I skin 'em for the money! Grinners For Life-Lifetime Member, MO Chapter, Den #1 ~You Grin, You're In~
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6218101
04/15/18 12:59 PM
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I don't advise the gambrel roof. Just go up with the second story walls and standard roof. When you get older, that second story is for young people to sleep in. The older you get, the less stair ways you will need or want.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: ]
#6218969
04/16/18 09:40 AM
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I too would go full basement. NEVER seem to have enough storage space. My reasoning for not having a full basement is there is already a 120 year old farmhouse on this property and the basement foundation is one of the reasons I'm tearing it down and building new. Also, with a 28x36 and half the upstairs I am already at 1500 sq.foot which is more than enough for my wife and my second home. I already have a 2600 sq. ft. house with no kids at home anymore.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#6219108
04/16/18 12:41 PM
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will you be heating it all the time or just when you are there? Well I haven't 100% decided yet but was leaning towards just a wall mount 80,000 propane heater and then having a wood stove for when I'm there. I am there about every weekend but wasn't sure if I wanted to burn through propane all winter when I'm not there? I was going to have very little drywall if any as I know it doesn't hold up to freezing?
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6219134
04/16/18 01:12 PM
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have you considered since your building into a grade like that,have one the porch on the down grade side and and on on the up hill side, set the hole works into the hill , make the 2nd story have just a few steps down on the uphill side , keep all your mechanicals in the middle of the back and give it it's own heating zone. to keep it at 60 and heat the rest of the house to 45.
if your pouring concrete put pex in it and a small natural gas boiler it will mount on the wall they are so small they use an antifreeze mix so much better heat than a wall unit
2x6 construction and spray in foam we had some friends that built a house about the size your talking they insulated it very well the first floor was concrete floor in the side of the hill 5 feet up the north wall their natural gas heating bill was down around 30-40 dollars a month to heat to 68 when they had a fire in the wood stove they could easily get the hole house up to 80
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 04/16/18 01:14 PM.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#6219181
04/16/18 02:12 PM
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have you considered since your building into a grade like that,have one the porch on the down grade side and and on on the up hill side, set the hole works into the hill , make the 2nd story have just a few steps down on the uphill side , keep all your mechanicals in the middle of the back and give it it's own heating zone. to keep it at 60 and heat the rest of the house to 45.
if your pouring concrete put pex in it and a small natural gas boiler it will mount on the wall they are so small they use an antifreeze mix so much better heat than a wall unit
2x6 construction and spray in foam we had some friends that built a house about the size your talking they insulated it very well the first floor was concrete floor in the side of the hill 5 feet up the north wall their natural gas heating bill was down around 30-40 dollars a month to heat to 68 when they had a fire in the wood stove they could easily get the hole house up to 80
Well if faced that way the view from that porch would be of basically scrub brush. Plus I wasn't wanting any windows or anything back there because of break ins. They could sit back there for hours and nobody could see them, plus the beautiful view of the hills is on the front. I am not familiar with pex but will look into it. There is no natural gas options there. I was actually going to go with metal sides and am not sure what will be the best way to insulate it. I haven't gotten that far to see if I can put the metal right to the framing then insulate (spray or otherwise) up to the metal or if I need sheeting. I will probably use knotty pine for the interior walls? So to back track do you agree with my foundation choice but you're saying run pex thru it to heat it?
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6219220
04/16/18 03:10 PM
04/16/18 03:10 PM
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I don't necessarily agree with a foundation wall and cement floor
I think you should price it as a crawl space , basement without finished floor, basement with a finished floor and as a foundation with poured concrete floor.
but any option that involves concrete floor should have PEX tubing in the cement it is such a good way to heat for very little cost you heat up the cement and you have many tons of thermal mass to hold the heat you still have to do everything else you would do with a concrete floor just that for a few hundred dollars in tubing your running the heat through the part of the house you would never get warm otherwise.
cement floors are always hard on joints and to stand on hard to hit if you fall but at least if it is warm concrete from heating lines running through , it won't also be cold all the time.
when you have a building not heated , then you start heating it a lot of time the floor will start to sweat especially if you don't have insulation and vapor barrier under it , it will always be cold and no matter how warm you make the air it never really warms up the concrete floor.
I have stayed in older slab cabins in the winter , furnace can run all night the floor never gets warm and it often sweats because it was allowed to get down to freezing for days or weeks before we got there and started the heat.
my wifes office is a slab , they keep the temp up they sell propane but she always complains of it being cold that slab never warms up it even has carpet over it
if you move the slab down 6 feet into the ground it changes things you don't have frost at the floor , you stay cool but warmer than outside I take a laser thermometer if I start it the top of the cinder block wall where it is expose to the outside , we have snow right now the wall is 51.5* as I move it down the wall the temp climbs about a degree every 16 inches the floor in the middle of the room is 58.5 mid summer it won't get over 62 my house is more than 100 years old and the basement has no insulation but it shows this effect well.
if your slab is at or above grade it acts as a huge heat sink stealing heat from your room
you have to isolate it with insulation around the insides of your foundation wall and under the slab that gets expensive , concrete is expensive so a craw space with a vapor barrier and some gravel over the top then a wood sub floor puts the least expensive of all insulation between the ground and your floor , dead air space.
it used to be you vented a crawl space , now you seal them up and insulate the perimeter.
knotty pine looks nice , but the cost is more than double even a basement board drywall that handles moisture and temperature swings better.
how about running water and septic will this have water and septic , how will you run that , where will the water shutoff be . how will you drain the house if your not heating it , what kind of water heater , will you be draining it every use of the house ?
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6219222
04/16/18 03:14 PM
04/16/18 03:14 PM
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am I understanding that the view is on the uphill and not down hill side ?
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#6219228
04/16/18 03:29 PM
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am I understanding that the view is on the uphill and not down hill side ? View is on the downhill.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
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04/16/18 03:34 PM
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I am not opposed to running floor joists and sub floor, I think it will actually save me money rather than concrete. I was advised by some to stay away from a crawl space because of critters? I know that would be easier to run the plumbing. Yes I have an exsisting septic I want to tie into and a well. I wasn't planning on winterizing every time I leave but was told the newer pex lines are less likely to freeze? but was going to look into this more.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6219281
04/16/18 05:30 PM
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You will either have to drain or heat in freezing weather. If a pipe breaks in a concrete floor good luck finding the break. A crawl done right gives many options a slab doesn't. I am a builder and although I don't know your situation I do know that you need to trust your builders opinion or get a new one. I have told customer that I would not do things a certain way if I knew it was not right. Some time it is not right or wrong but rather preference just like which trap or lure you choose. Good luck.
Wish I had more time to trap....
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: strike2x]
#6219303
04/16/18 06:14 PM
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You will either have to drain or heat in freezing weather. If a pipe breaks in a concrete floor good luck finding the break. Another option is to add glycol to the in-floor radiant heat system.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
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07/25/18 10:18 AM
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Well its been frustrating but finally am off and running, lots of planning and a bit overwhelming. The staked out area the footer getting started the old cabin, lots of memories The new drive going up to the back a bit The views once I get a few more scrub trees removed will be better
Last edited by bass10; 07/25/18 10:22 AM.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: Kyt]
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08/06/18 10:49 AM
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You can insulate the floor slab from the outside ground with thick styrafoam all around the sides and down into the ground a couple feet. Some insulation under the slab would help, not sure about the cost then.Floor joists and wood floor are going to be warmer, but also expensive. Like others have said , it makes a difference if it is going to be heated every day or only on weekends, etc. A little heat on the slab to keep it warm would help rather than allow it to equalize with outdoor cold, then have to be re heated. But that is going to cost too. Kyt, yes I am running greenboard insulation on the outside and inside the foundation all the way down to the footer. Lots of options and they all cost money.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
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08/06/18 10:52 AM
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Last edited by bass10; 08/06/18 10:53 AM.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
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08/06/18 10:59 AM
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Looks great! Beautiful place how big of spread is it? Are you working on it full time also besides the two contractors?
Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: snowy]
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Looks great! Beautiful place how big of spread is it? Are you working on it full time also besides the two contractors? Snowy, it is 26' X 38' and even though its a hunting, fishing, trapping, retirement cabin I'm already wishing I had made it bigger. But with a tight budget I just couldn't afford to. I had the footer and foundation work subbed out. I am going to do all I can myself but I am not a builder. I work a full time graphics/printing company and this is an hour away so it'll take awhile. One of my two semi retired contractors is already bulking a bit so I may have to go another route to get it under roof by winter.
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
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10/29/18 07:56 AM
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Last edited by bass10; 10/29/18 09:13 AM.
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
#6360156
10/29/18 06:22 PM
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I like it. That is just about perfect. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the plans for that ??
Let's go Brandon
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bobsheedy]
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10/29/18 08:08 PM
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Looks good. I hope that you get the roof on soon.
Yeh, the weather has been terrible and only getting a couple days a week to work on it has been tough. I am off tomorrow and really hoping to get the trusses up this weekend? Of course I have a wedding to go to Saturday at 4:00 that is pretty important and of course its the rut here also?
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: Scuba1]
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10/29/18 08:14 PM
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I like it. That is just about perfect. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the plans for that ?? Scuba, I changed the plans from the first page. My buddy has been building houses for 35 years helped me with the plans. It is really going to be sweet but the roof will now go over the porch all the way around. He was not a fan of the gambrel design. Didn't like the snow and rain free falling below. It also changed to a 26X38, 988 square feet on the main floor and with his truss design it will have 2 bedrooms and a bath on the upstairs with approx. 670 sq. foot. The trusses will go about 3/4 of the way then I'll have a cathedral design overlooking kitchen and living.Great design but he does things 100% and he definitely didn't consider what my wallet would hold. After I get roof on and you see it I'd gladly share my plans on here.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
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11/12/18 05:08 PM
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Well had all my buddies down for the truss work Saturday (notice theres only 3 of them) JK. But got the trusses up and now onto the cathedral 2" X 10" x 20', hoping to start sheeting the roof this week but not sure if I can get a day or two off this week so it may have to go into the weekend. Theres also another section that forms on top of the trusses. Learning a lot and running out of money fast. I'll be glad when its under roof and I can stop the bleeding a bit. Do what I can when I can on the inside.
Last edited by bass10; 11/12/18 05:11 PM.
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
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11/15/18 10:07 AM
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
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Thanks all, been a real learning experience and a true labor of love, just hope I can finish it and enjoy it but the money train as well as my wifes patience is running out and its still early in the game. Got 60% under felt, the other 40% is a cathedral truss system. I have started that and got the one gable end finished and house wrap on but didn't take pics yet. Can't wait to finish up the roof and get metal on. It is a 10-12 pitch so its a bit tough but needed that pitch to have 2 bedrooms and a bath upstairs. It is a 8'8" (roughly) ceiling to accommodate my son who is 6'8".
Last edited by bass10; 12/04/18 04:19 PM.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
#6428280
01/14/19 03:23 PM
01/14/19 03:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,432 Akron, Ohio
bass10
OP
trapper
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,432
Akron, Ohio
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Well the cathedral end was a bit challenging for a novice like me and even my hired carpenter. But we finally got it roughed and under roof just in time. Got lots of work ahead of me and much more work than I imagined but staying with it and can't wait till the next thing in line to do.
Last edited by bass10; 01/14/19 03:24 PM.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
#6428281
01/14/19 03:25 PM
01/14/19 03:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951 OH
Catch22
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trapper
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OH
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All I can say is WOW, just wow!
I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
#6428534
01/14/19 08:36 PM
01/14/19 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150 Tennessee
Scuba1
"color blind Kraut"
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"color blind Kraut"
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
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Can't wait for the next installment. A great thread giving me ideas for my build starting sometime this year.
Let's go Brandon
"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
#6428567
01/14/19 08:57 PM
01/14/19 08:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,363 MT
snowy
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,363
MT
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Beautiful! Looks like a lot more then a cabin. Please keep us posted on your progress.
Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
#6715101
01/03/20 10:24 AM
01/03/20 10:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,432 Akron, Ohio
bass10
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OP
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Akron, Ohio
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Got her all shored up, been working on porch ceiling, all the walls are up on inside, electric is about 80% done, plumbing is about 95% done. Heating and cooling in a couple of months, then insulation, then start the finishing work. Lots and I mean lots of little things to do though.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin? Pic heavy
[Re: bass10]
#6715617
01/03/20 09:07 PM
01/03/20 09:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,482 Ne pa
Jerry Jr.
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Ne pa
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Looking good!
I know your pain. Started working with my Dad when I was about 12 in construction. We did everything from the ground up. Whatever needed to be done. Fast forward a few years, I got a 'real' job and we decided we needed to build some homes. We started my parents house in the spring on 09 and finished the fall of 2010. Started my house in the spring of 2011 and finished in the fall of 2012. During that time most of my free time was spent working on houses. I did get a little time to hunt with the rifle. But that was it. All other free time was spent working on houses.
Nothing like wiring a house in the middle of winter with a turbo heater going to warm your hands by. But we did it.
I did have the benefit of my Dad helping. He had 50 or so years experience building at that point. When we were building the walls my Dad would have been 72. He would walk on top of the inside and outside walls without even thinking about it. I sure hope that I can do that when I get to that age!
I grew up doing this work and with the amount of fun I had building these two houses over four years, I can only imagine the fun that you are having. Just remember how much money you are saving!
By this fall you will be in it and enjoying your labors. And then it will all be worth it. I know, been there built that.
Time is more precious than gold if you know how to spend it .... but what do I know, I'm just a dumb farmer.~My Dad NRA LIFE MEMBER, Endowment Member
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: trapper les]
#6715694
01/03/20 09:54 PM
01/03/20 09:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,611 New Hampshire
Nessmuck
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
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New Hampshire
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I don't advise the gambrel roof. Just go up with the second story walls and standard roof. When you get older, that second story is for young people to sleep in. The older you get, the less stair ways you will need or want. Right on Les.....build a Ranch...then when you get a new knee or hip...you’ll thank us later
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6718862
01/06/20 10:04 PM
01/06/20 10:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,432 Akron, Ohio
bass10
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Akron, Ohio
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Thanks Jerry, yes I’m a early riser anyway but it’s amazing when I get up at 4:00 on saturdays and sundays with anticipation to get down there and get started to see what I can get done for the day. I usually spend the week googling how to do things especially rigs to make for doing by myself. Nessmuck yes my bedroom is on the first floor. Don’t care if I ever go upstairs but there is 2 bedrooms and a full bath up there for guests. Will keep inside progress pics going.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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Re: Building a cabin?
[Re: bass10]
#6719246
01/07/20 09:57 AM
01/07/20 09:57 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,432 Akron, Ohio
bass10
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OP
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Akron, Ohio
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Yes I have to agree, it started as a cabin upgrade on a tight budget as my old one was getting in disrepair. My wife started getting interested in spending more time down there with me. So I got a good friend in the building industry involved and it just took off from there. I also have a friend that does business with me that got into the metal business so I got rid of doing the wood looking outside (as well as upkeep) and did metal sides. I am planning on taking every other Friday off and spending more and more time there. But yes its turned into a second house.
"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
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