Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6219572
04/17/18 01:03 AM
04/17/18 01:03 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494
Garden,Michigan
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A lot of guys turn their nose up at these sets nowdays.I think their excellent change ups from the more run of the mill sets.How many fox come across a spring hole set nowdays?
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6219613
04/17/18 06:54 AM
04/17/18 06:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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Tweed, call Craig O'Gorman. He started calling it the mafia set. O'Gorman is best known as a top trapper. his marketing skill is overlooked.
Buck, not many. You have to find a perfect spot and it takes a long time to make. Lots easier to catch that same fox on one side or the other. There are a lot of sets that work but are just not practical. Read Hawbakers trapping north American furbearers to se a compilation of time consuming sets.
I never saw a reason to tie up two traps for one critter. If your catch goes from 80% caught per visit to 90% by starting out with two traps you will catch more fur putting the second trap in its own location.
Anyways that's what I think.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: danny clifton]
#6219640
04/17/18 08:03 AM
04/17/18 08:03 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494
Garden,Michigan
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Tweed, call Craig O'Gorman. He started calling it the mafia set. O'Gorman is best known as a top trapper. his marketing skill is overlooked.
Buck, not many. You have to find a perfect spot and it takes a long time to make. Lots easier to catch that same fox on one side or the other. There are a lot of sets that work but are just not practical. Read Hawbakers trapping north American furbearers to se a compilation of time consuming sets.
I never saw a reason to tie up two traps for one critter. If your catch goes from 80% caught per visit to 90% by starting out with two traps you will catch more fur putting the second trap in its own location.
Anyways that's what I think. Agreed with needing the right location.I can think of a few places where I've trapped where using the water set would have added a few more pelts,areas up here that have more rock than top soil.Thing was when I saw the location I thought back to those old sets and knew I had a perfect location to make one,but thinking it took too much time and having never having made the set before didn't have the confidence.I'd do it now.I have used the trail sets successfully for just about everything.The problem we have here is the amount of deer we have running around,if their not using the trail before they will be after you make the set.Again,just a couple of old time sets to use as a change up where its feasible to use.
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Buck (Zandra)]
#6219736
04/17/18 09:54 AM
04/17/18 09:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719 Maine
Mac
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719
Maine
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A properly made spring hole set is a good set. I doubt over a handful of trappers make the set. There are certain strategies that are needed to really make it shine. I am personally glad it has fallen out of fashion. Granted it is not a high speed production set. But you would be surprised how fast it can go in with the right circumstances. Would I trade the spring hole set for say a dirt hole set? No, but it is a good tool. Probably not worth a darn out West or in a desert. Mac
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6219773
04/17/18 10:58 AM
04/17/18 10:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,247 wantage n.j.
eric space
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,247
wantage n.j.
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The key to a spring hole set is to make it at the spring, not just anywhere in the water. Biggest advantage is that springs do not freeze, even in sub zero weather. It's a great wintertime set, your set is always working, no matter how cold or how much snow. In the mid to late 60's (I started snaring in 1970) my grandfather and I would trap fox in winter, almost all in springholes. Always fastened our traps to a notched rock, I still occasionally find a spring with a notched rock in it. A few months ago I mentioned that Gramp used a Blake and Lamb underspring #2 with offset galvanized pans for watersets. In the May 2018 Fur-Fish-Game in the antique trap section Tom Parr has a picture of a B&L with notched pan spikes to hold on the sod. In the same picture, behind the featured trap is one of those galvanized pan B&L's with the upturned pan corners. Check it out, Eric
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Lazarus]
#6219852
04/17/18 12:28 PM
04/17/18 12:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,937 PA
elkaholic
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,937
PA
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Looks like a walk-thru with 2 traps.
Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Lazarus]
#6219863
04/17/18 12:50 PM
04/17/18 12:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445 Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
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That's correct, it is not a Mafia set. I for one only use 1 trap. That's OGs set to share.. Givem an offer they can't refuse! There's also more to the spring hole than a sod on the pan. With a little preseason work they are quick to set for winter. Like any other sets theirs a right way and a right time to be most effective.
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: elkaholic]
#6219867
04/17/18 12:53 PM
04/17/18 12:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,694 Nevadafornia
Lazarus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,694
Nevadafornia
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Looks like a walk-thru with 2 traps. Not being critical of the set that is pictured . . . its just not a mafia set. A blind or flat set used as a back up to another set is frequently referred to as a mafia set. IT IS NOT. As I learned it, a mafia set is a very specific set with specific components (a coyote trail, a dropping, good camouflage, etc).
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6219869
04/17/18 12:54 PM
04/17/18 12:54 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,109 Northern Michigan
J.Morse
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,109
Northern Michigan
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What Eric said. That set (springhole) was used because it was an all-weather set, within reason of course. In a part of the country where sub-zero weather is sporadic, not having to fuss with crusty snow, melting/re-freezing, etc. made that set attractive, at least in theory!
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6219893
04/17/18 01:39 PM
04/17/18 01:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,846 Pa
Wright Brothers
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,846
Pa
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There's an Old Pro trapper around here that knows the spring set. Hope he sees this topic.
Far as I can tell, the other set is pay per view only though I could be wrong, again.
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6220096
04/17/18 06:06 PM
04/17/18 06:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 213 Pennsylvania
OldCoon
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 213
Pennsylvania
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Over the years I've taken a lot of foxes in the 'springhole set' or 'water set,' as us old Dutchmen call it. It is not for high rolling or Phil Brown style of fox trapping, but as some have observed, made in the right place and made correctly it can be a real good fur producer.
I am now 71 and not in the best of health so my trapping days are over, but I dare say springs I fixed up years ago would be ready to go with just a bit of a cleaning out. I always fixed my springs in early September so there was plenty of time for Mother Nature to hide my work. When I was ready to trap everything looked nice and natural.
A springhole or water set will work anytime of year but the best time is after deer season is over and most of the hunters are out of the woods and woodlots. The best trap I ever used in these sets was the old Victor #2 square jaw coils with 8 feet of extension chain and a two pronged grapple attached. I also tightened up the pan tension so there was no creep when the fox initially stepped on it.
The water set works best for the trapper with a static trapline, meaning he traps the same 3-4 farms year after year.
There used to be a trapper up in Barryville, NY, Lew Eckert who was also postmaster. Lew was a great believer in the water set. He trapper larger creeks, not just small springs. If I remember correctly, Lew once caught over 300 foxes in a single season in water sets. He had the bounty affidavits to back his claim. Fox fur was worthless back then, in the 50s, and it only paid to trap them for bounty.
I trap mink because I don't know any better.
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6220130
04/17/18 06:48 PM
04/17/18 06:48 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494
Garden,Michigan
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I remember Johnny Thorpe talking about a fella in his neck of the woods taking 100+ fox a season on a walking line back in the '30's,all from the spring hole set.
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: OldCoon]
#6221421
04/19/18 07:05 AM
04/19/18 07:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719 Maine
Mac
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719
Maine
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Good to see you posting OldCoon. Eckert wrote a pretty neat little book explaining his methods. I have chatted via email with a couple of his students. He could make that set work on all types of water. As you noted it is probably not a PB style set but it is a good set. I have yet to really make it work on coyotes but will.
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6221706
04/19/18 03:15 PM
04/19/18 03:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497 PA
PAskinner
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497
PA
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Question for the spring hole guys... where do you put you trap? I dont put my trap nearly that far out from the bank. Johnny emphasized that the trap and lure stick are very close, and from the landing rock to the lure stick only the span of your hand, or about 8 inches.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: PAskinner]
#6221738
04/19/18 03:56 PM
04/19/18 03:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 213 Pennsylvania
OldCoon
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 213
Pennsylvania
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I prefer my trap about 6 inches from the bank. The bait/lure rock 6 inches from the trap.
The more solid appearing your stepping sod is will play no small part in selling your set.
Sometimes I used bait and lure, other times just lure and other times just bait. In the dead of winter, when snow covers the ground and everything is frozen, try taking a generous handful of hog cracklings and putting them on the bait rock. Put a few dry leaves over the bait to conceal it from birds overhead. Use small stones to weight the leaves down to keep them from blowing away.
Good luck.
I trap mink because I don't know any better.
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: MChewk]
#6222176
04/20/18 06:02 AM
04/20/18 06:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719 Maine
Mac
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719
Maine
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This has been a good thread. Good to see you posting Mike Mason. Good post Mr. Mcewk on another version of the set.
If one gets out of the idea that you need the picture perfect spring you will be amazed the number of spots this set will go in.
Mac
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6222194
04/20/18 06:40 AM
04/20/18 06:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,937 PA
elkaholic
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,937
PA
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So I had an idea and wanted to see what y'all thought. Since you need to put some moss on your trap,think you could do what cat trappers do where they glue a shingle or something similar to the pan so you don't have to worry about finding moss ? Just an idea I like your out of the box thinking. I think it would work, but moss would be a higher percentage bet. Remember with it-You are trying to make the set look as natural as possible. Moss gives you that edge. Also remember you're next to a spring or similar water area, moss is everywhere.
Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6222211
04/20/18 07:09 AM
04/20/18 07:09 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494
Garden,Michigan
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I've used variations of this set for coon but never for larger predators.What got me thinking about this set was the coyote tracks I've seen along the edge of some beaver ponds where the banks and the surrounding areas were mud.Up here our low lands and ponds tend to be cedar swamp type of habitat with the ground soil being very wet,some might look at this set as low percentage and maybe it is compared to others,but I think in its place it would really shine.Now I'm really getting fired up for the fall of '18!Excellent thread
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6222214
04/20/18 07:15 AM
04/20/18 07:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,446 Houghton Lake, MI
strike2x
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,446
Houghton Lake, MI
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I have to work hard enough keeping dirt sets working in northern Michigan weather. Since I can't set within 50 feet of water until November I can't see using this set myself but I do see how it could work.
Wish I had more time to trap....
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: elkaholic]
#6222317
04/20/18 09:32 AM
04/20/18 09:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,473 South MS
dublelung
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,473
South MS
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Looks like a walk-thru with 2 traps. Yeah but you gotta have those cool names to make it legit. A double trap walk through just ain't cool.
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Buck (Zandra)]
#6222382
04/20/18 11:38 AM
04/20/18 11:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,296 Louisiana
Aix sponsa
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,296
Louisiana
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I've used variations of this set for coon but never for larger predators.What got me thinking about this set was the coyote tracks I've seen along the edge of some beaver ponds where the banks and the surrounding areas were mud.Up here our low lands and ponds tend to be cedar swamp type of habitat with the ground soil being very wet,some might look at this set as low percentage and maybe it is compared to others,but I think in its place it would really shine.Now I'm really getting fired up for the fall of '18!Excellent thread I’m pickin’ up what you’re puttin’ down. I too see lots of coyote tracks in the muck around beaver waters. A solid stepping place to get a better whiff of some castor would probably be a great set. May have to try it next year sometime
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: lumberjack391]
#6222557
04/20/18 04:53 PM
04/20/18 04:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719 Maine
Mac
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719
Maine
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Met a really good trapper from PA back in the 80s. I cannot spell his name to save my life. I am pretty sure his first name was Jack, and the last name something like "Scmucke"? He was with Mike Marysada (sp) who was teaching at a Neil Olson seminar. This Jack showed his version of the spring hole set and I believe he told us he had pretty good luck with the set. He used different things for the pan cover but the one that I remember was this; he used a thin piece of shale/rock glued to a pan with construction adhesive. Just a different idea.
There is a guy on youtube, CTtrapper, who has some awesome videos of various styles of spring hole sets. He does not have a ton of videos on his channel but boy he has some good ones. I would like to meet him and pick his brain.
Mac
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6222615
04/20/18 07:08 PM
04/20/18 07:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,823 Lower Alabama (Daleville)
LAtrapper
"Professor"
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"Professor"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,823
Lower Alabama (Daleville)
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Met a really good trapper from PA back in the 80s. I cannot spell his name to save my life. I am pretty sure his first name was Jack, and the last name something like "Scmucke"? He was with Mike Marysada (sp) who was teaching at a Neil Olson seminar. This Jack showed his version of the spring hole set and I believe he told us he had pretty good luck with the set. He used different things for the pan cover but the one that I remember was this; he used a thin piece of shale/rock glued to a pan with construction adhesive. Just a different idea.
There is a guy on youtube, CTtrapper, who has some awesome videos of various styles of spring hole sets. He does not have a ton of videos on his channel but boy he has some good ones. I would like to meet him and pick his brain. Mac Is this one of his videos?- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBBeanMWFww He does have quite a few videos- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA03ien9_0Rzpu5lG-6inXw/videos
Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).
Ron Fry
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6223689
04/22/18 09:05 AM
04/22/18 09:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,037 SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,037
SEPA
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I was just reading through my current copy of FFG and came across a trap specifically designed for spring-hole sets in the Antique Trap Collecting column. The Blake & Lamb Water Set trap came with four pointy projections on the pan for holding a piece of sod, a brass pan nut and bolt for tension adjustment (instead of the more common rivet) and galvanized pan and shank.
The article contains an excerpt from E. J. Dailey's booklet Expert Fox Trapping that describes how to make a spring-hole set.
Eh...wot?
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Lugnut]
#6223692
04/22/18 09:10 AM
04/22/18 09:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,037 SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,037
SEPA
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OldCoon thanks for sharing. Good to see you posting you ole Mink skinner. I still set a couple of Spring Holes. X 2 Good to see you posting Old Coon, brings back memories of the glory days at the HPA forum. You always were an advocate of the spring-hole set.
Eh...wot?
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#6328572
09/19/18 09:20 AM
09/19/18 09:20 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,971 Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,971
Peoria County Illinois
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I have to side with Lazarus. Craig said you want to give the coyote an offer he can't refuse. It does look like a good set though but you might have to watch out for deer.
Just passin through
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Re: The ole Spring hole and Mafia set
[Re: Furvor]
#6328667
09/19/18 12:14 PM
09/19/18 12:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,412 Pennsylvania
Hern
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,412
Pennsylvania
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I make a few spring hole sets each season. #3 size traps provides bigger area (moss) for animal to step or feel comfortable stepping on bigger area. I prefer Cap moss on pan but have used Carpet moss. Cap moss Carpet moss
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