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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: waggler]
#6223054
04/21/18 11:32 AM
04/21/18 11:32 AM
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Forget the entire argument of evolution/adaptation/mutation of various species.
The question is where did life originate from?
Back in the 70's and 80's apologists for evolution of the species (I won't call them scientists) argued that life sprang into existence beginning with an electric arc in an atmosphere of ammonia and other compounds that supposedly created an amino acid with protein-like qualities.
That theory as to the origin of life has pretty much been de-bunked by the scientific community.
You really haven't heard much argument by scientists recently as to the origins of life. They are smart enough to realize they don't have the answer. The deeper they get into the subject the more complex it gets. Exactly. I don't think any of the guys promoting evolution theory on here are sitting at computers that programmed themselves and to think that this world programmed itself is just nonesense.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: Lugnut]
#6223057
04/21/18 11:35 AM
04/21/18 11:35 AM
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Scientific theory is just that; theory. Scientists gather what limited data is available through observation and experimentation then postulate theories based on that. As more data and/or understanding becomes available, some theories are called into question and others take their place.
There are no cold hard facts in religion either. There are as many theories as there are religions. What makes a christian believe his God is more real than Allah or Brahman or any of the other deities of the dozens of religions worldwide?
For one thing, God has spoken to me in ways that I find hard to explain, but that were as real as a person talking to me. Once you have experienced him, doubts tend to fade away. Of course, being human we can always doubt anything, even our own existence, so there is still faith involved.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: Yes sir]
#6223059
04/21/18 11:38 AM
04/21/18 11:38 AM
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Lugnut
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If man can create moral law can he change moral law and it be ok if it improves the species? Such as if it is in the best interest of the species is it morally ok to depose of the less intelligent say 2/3rds of the gene pool? lugnut you didn't Dodge my question did u? I didn't answer because it is a question that doesn't make sense to me. Morals and laws are two completely different things, at least in today's world. The only thing they have in common is that both were created by man. I don't believe morality or law has any direct bearing on the improvement or evolution of the human specie. What is considered moral or immoral is very different depending on the culture and/or religion; radical Islam believes that it is perfectly moral to chop the heads off of infidels, most other cultures/religions consider such acts immoral. Morality also changes constantly with the passage of time within cultures. Some things considered immoral two hundred years ago in America are acceptable today. Perhaps not by religious zealots but by society at large. Morals as imposed by religions and laws created by governments serve the same purpose; to keep the masses on the straight and narrow and to provide punishment for those that stray from that path. Neither should be necessary if, as you say, mankind was inherently moral, if humans as a specie were born with a strong sense of right and wrong instilled by their creator.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: Lugnut]
#6223066
04/21/18 11:49 AM
04/21/18 11:49 AM
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RKG
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Morality also changes constantly with the passage of time within cultures. Some things considered immoral two hundred years ago in America are acceptable today. Perhaps not by religious zealots by by society at large.
Morals as imposed by religions and laws created by governments serve the same purpose; to keep the masses on the straight and narrow and to provide punishment for those that stray from that path.
This is very interesting. Especially in light of other threads where "older generational" posters take issue with "younger generational" actions and behaviors. What is really being discussed is the current shift in culture. As I stated before, we have exited the Modernist society, and have entered the Postmodernist. Without even being aware of what is going on, several are quick to judge and opinionate on what they observe, in relation to what their world view is. Yet, we all decry that what we 'believe" is or isn't a religion. Culture continues to change as man wrestles with trying to answer his 3 basic questions, and without ever being satisfied, he "evolves" his thinking into the next philosophy, which manifests itself in culture change. And when that philosophy fails to answer the 3 basic questions, the next philosophy is waiting in the wings. Sometimes the forest has to be identified by the types of trees growing in it.
Last edited by RKG; 04/21/18 11:51 AM.
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: Lugnut]
#6223081
04/21/18 12:03 PM
04/21/18 12:03 PM
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West Virginia
wkimble1
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Forget the entire argument of evolution/adaptation/mutation of various species.
The question is where did life originate from?
Back in the 70's and 80's apologists for evolution of the species (I won't call them scientists) argued that life sprang into existence beginning with an electric arc in an atmosphere of ammonia and other compounds that supposedly created an amino acid with protein-like qualities.
That theory as to the origin of life has pretty much been de-bunked by the scientific community.
You really haven't heard much argument by scientists recently as to the origins of life. They are smart enough to realize they don't have the answer. The deeper they get into the subject the more complex it gets. Scientific theory is just that; theory. Scientists gather what limited data is available through observation and experimentation then postulate theories based on that. As more data and/or understanding becomes available, some theories are called into question and others take their place. There are no cold hard facts in religion either. There are as many theories as there are religions. What makes a christian believe his God is more real than Allah or Brahman or any of the other deities of the dozens of religions worldwide? Scientific theory and proven science are two different things. There are some things that can be absolutely proven 100%. We know for a fact that if you put roundup on grass it dies. We know it dies because glyphosate interferes with a plant ability to photosynthesize due to an interruption in amino acids responsible for growth. We know that. It’s proven. Not theory. You test a theory that you have to see if there is evidence to back it. Good science actually tries to DISPROVE theory in order to strengthen the theory. If you’ve exhausted all means of disproving something, then your hypothesis is very strong. That can’t be done with any religious writings because there is NO PROOF. And no, a book of writing doesn’t count as proof of anything. Where is the evidence of the ark? Family trees in the Bible have been used to determine that Adam and Eve lived a mere 6,000 years ago. If we all came from Adam and Eve, why is there DNA evidence of people sharing common DNA from Neanderthals that lived 120,000 years ago???
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: wkimble1]
#6223087
04/21/18 12:13 PM
04/21/18 12:13 PM
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Lugnut
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I separated your quote from mine wkimble1. You can only quote two quotes deep (for readability). Forget the entire argument of evolution/adaptation/mutation of various species.
The question is where did life originate from?
Back in the 70's and 80's apologists for evolution of the species (I won't call them scientists) argued that life sprang into existence beginning with an electric arc in an atmosphere of ammonia and other compounds that supposedly created an amino acid with protein-like qualities.
That theory as to the origin of life has pretty much been de-bunked by the scientific community.
You really haven't heard much argument by scientists recently as to the origins of life. They are smart enough to realize they don't have the answer. The deeper they get into the subject the more complex it gets. Scientific theory is just that; theory. Scientists gather what limited data is available through observation and experimentation then postulate theories based on that. As more data and/or understanding becomes available, some theories are called into question and others take their place. There are no cold hard facts in religion either. There are as many theories as there are religions. What makes a christian believe his God is more real than Allah or Brahman or any of the other deities of the dozens of religions worldwide? Scientific theory and proven science are two different things. There are some things that can be absolutely proven 100%. We know for a fact that if you put roundup on grass it dies. We know it dies because glyphosate interferes with a plant ability to photosynthesize due to an interruption in amino acids responsible for growth. We know that. It’s proven. Not theory. You test a theory that you have to see if there is evidence to back it. Good science actually tries to DISPROVE theory in order to strengthen the theory. If you’ve exhausted all means of disproving something, then your hypothesis is very strong. That can’t be done with any religious writings because there is NO PROOF. And no, a book of writing doesn’t count as proof of anything. Where is the evidence of the ark? Family trees in the Bible have been used to determine that Adam and Eve lived a mere 6,000 years ago. If we all came from Adam and Eve, why is there DNA evidence of people sharing common DNA from Neanderthals that lived 120,000 years ago???
Eh...wot?
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: harleydparts]
#6223091
04/21/18 12:26 PM
04/21/18 12:26 PM
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Mountain View, AR
ShaneT
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If a sentient being created humans it is likely looking at us all now wondering why it even bothered lol.
Seriously though, If you look at the Big Bamg Theory it postulates that the universe was constricted into an unimaginably tiny, unimaginably dense point before exploding into an ever expanding universe. That point had to exist inside something larger which means the universe now also exists inside something larger.
It is not that hard for me to believe that some being that exists outside of our realm of understanding started the whole process along.
I have reached the point in my life that I honestly don't think it matters. I am going to wake up each day thankful that I have the opportunity to be the best person I can be and treat other people well and enjoy the ride I have the privledge to be on.
I enjoy hard work and fooling with animals so I am about to go move my flock of 20 sheep to fresh green pasture and mark the property corners the surveyors pinned this week on the additional land I am buying with T-posts.
I hope you all have a wonderful day and God bless.
"Good Lord, thank you for your endless bounty. Lord please give me the strength to gather what I need"
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: Yes sir]
#6223094
04/21/18 12:30 PM
04/21/18 12:30 PM
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Lugnut
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Didn't say mankind is inherently moral. Man has free will as we both agree. I believe i said moral laws come from a higher power. If moral laws is solely based on ones believe or culture do we have the right to say another culture or believes actions are right or wrong? Yes, my mistake, you did say you believe moral laws come from a higher power. Whether or not an individual believes the actions of another individual are wrong has nothing to do with the source of that person's morals. My belief that beheading infidels in the name of Allah is wrong would remain the same no matter where my sense of morality came from. Perhaps if I was raised in the environment that condones that type of behavior I would feel differently. As to whether or not a person has the right to judge another morally or in any other way; absolutely, free thought is an inherent human right.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: ShaneT]
#6223096
04/21/18 12:32 PM
04/21/18 12:32 PM
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Lugnut
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If a sentient being created humans it is likely looking at us all now wondering why it even bothered lol.
I hope you all have a wonderful day and God bless.
You may be on to something! I hope you enjoy the rest of your day as well.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: harleydparts]
#6223111
04/21/18 01:01 PM
04/21/18 01:01 PM
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If nothing is inherently evil, then all we have are differing opinions. And this is a whole problem with atheistic morality. In a Godless universe I cannot say with any certainty that any action is evil, only that I don't care for certain actions. Which gives us a pretty good picture of our culture right now, and might explain why so many kids are going off the deep end, and shooting thier classmates. We have made good and evil totally relative and then we wonder why people act on their evil inclinations. We have told a whole generation that they are nothing but smart monkeys, and then we wonder why they seem to have no moral compass.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: Lugnut]
#6223112
04/21/18 01:04 PM
04/21/18 01:04 PM
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Yukon
yukon254
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Forget the entire argument of evolution/adaptation/mutation of various species.
The question is where did life originate from?
Back in the 70's and 80's apologists for evolution of the species (I won't call them scientists) argued that life sprang into existence beginning with an electric arc in an atmosphere of ammonia and other compounds that supposedly created an amino acid with protein-like qualities.
That theory as to the origin of life has pretty much been de-bunked by the scientific community.
You really haven't heard much argument by scientists recently as to the origins of life. They are smart enough to realize they don't have the answer. The deeper they get into the subject the more complex it gets. Scientific theory is just that; theory. Scientists gather what limited data is available through observation and experimentation then postulate theories based on that. As more data and/or understanding becomes available, some theories are called into question and others take their place. There are no cold hard facts in religion either. There are as many theories as there are religions. What makes a christian believe his God is more real than Allah or Brahman or any of the other deities of the dozens of religions worldwide? Thats an easy one...Jesus is the only one that died and rose again. My son likes to tell evolutionists that if their theory is right, whats wrong with him beating them up and taking their stuff.....strongest survive right?? The fact that even they know that isn't right begs the question of where did morality come from?? Animals certainly dont have it so how did it evolve in humans...
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: yukon254]
#6223127
04/21/18 01:36 PM
04/21/18 01:36 PM
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Lugnut
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What makes a christian believe his God is more real than Allah or Brahman or any of the other deities of the dozens of religions worldwide?
Thats an easy one...Jesus is the only one that died and rose again. My son likes to tell evolutionists that if their theory is right, whats wrong with him beating them up and taking their stuff.....strongest survive right?? The fact that even they know that isn't right begs the question of where did morality come from?? Animals certainly dont have it so how did it evolve in humans... Do you think that an Islamist or Hindu believes their God is any less real than you believe yours is? An Islamist denies the Holy Trinity exists. Do you ever wonder what your beliefs would be, where your faith would lie if you had been a part of another culture? I believe morality is a man-made concept; a result of our specie having a higher intelligence than the rest of life on our planet. Do you believe it is impossible for an individual who has not accepted the existence of your God to be a good and moral person?
Eh...wot?
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: Lugnut]
#6223134
04/21/18 01:54 PM
04/21/18 01:54 PM
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[quote=yukon254][quote=Lugnut]
Do you think that an Islamist or Hindu believes their God is any less real than you believe yours is? An Islamist denies the Holy Trinity exists. Do you ever wonder what your beliefs would be, where your faith would lie if you had been a part of another culture?
I believe morality is a man-made concept; a result of our specie having a higher intelligence than the rest of life on our planet. Do you believe it is impossible for an individual who has not accepted the existence of your God to be a good and moral person? Of course they can, to a point. Just as one who believes can only be good to a point. A higher intelligence doesn't explain morality. You can have a super high IQ and still be a morally deficient person. But why would someone who has no concept of a higher authority, have any way to tell what is good or evil? It's all relative isn't it?
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Creationism or evolution?
[Re: harleydparts]
#6223143
04/21/18 02:08 PM
04/21/18 02:08 PM
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Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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Lugnut,
Your question; "What makes a christian believe his God is more real than Allah or Brahman or any of the other deities of the dozens of religions worldwide?", is a valid question. I won't answer the question directly but I'd like to compare the big difference that separates Christianity from religions (including some so called Christian religions).
Christianity is about God reaching out to man; God trying to get man's attention.
All other religions are about man trying to reach God.
Christianity has just two commandments for it followers: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself" (Jesus).
Religions have all kinds of hoops to jump through, and rules that must be adhered to in order to supposedly please God and get his favorable attention. Just look at what happens when people try that method; not good.
I have been led to choose the uniqueness, simplicity, yet the paradox of the Christian view of God's relationship with mankind as revealed through Jesus Christ. I can't prove anything to anyone strictly from an intellectual perspective. Yet the confidence I have in my choice has been reconfirmed through experience many many times. I guess you have to see it to believe it.
I occasionally have to remind myself:
If I could talk someone into becoming a Believer, someone else can talk them out of it.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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