Hand-loaders, I have a problem
#6222182
04/20/18 06:18 AM
04/20/18 06:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
OP
"Minka"
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OP
"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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I load for more than a dozen rifle cartridges, and can always seat the bullet without crimping. Neck tension alone is enough to hold the bullet in place.
Except when I load for my .300 Win Mag. About one in four of the loaded rounds come out with the bullets loose enough to fall into the case partway. At this point, the bullet can be drawn out of the case with fingers alone.
The .300 WM is the only round I have to crimp to be sure the bullet will hold. The Lee Factory Crimp die does a pretty good job, but I'd rather not crimp.
Could the expander ball on my 30-year old RCBS die be a few thousandths of an inch too large? Or am I doing something wrong?
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222184
04/20/18 06:24 AM
04/20/18 06:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
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I have the same problem and solution. I don't think its your die. I noticed it with cartridges in the magazine. Recoil seating the bullets deeper with every shot. Never tried just pushing or pulling on any but never had that problem with an 06. Hard to believe a couple hundred fps would increase recoil enough to cause that. I don't understand the whys but something is different with 300 win mag.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222186
04/20/18 06:29 AM
04/20/18 06:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
OP
"Minka"
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OP
"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Well, this happens with rounds that have never sat in a magazine, only just carried in the pocket or plastic cartridge case.
The .300 WM is prone to the issue because it has a short neck, shorter even than caliber if I recall right.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222193
04/20/18 06:39 AM
04/20/18 06:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 555 WV
garymc
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 555
WV
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I have not experienced any recoil setback issues with 300 wby, 7mm rem, or 8mm rem Mag. I Check all of my hunting rounds with some thumb pressure and then a double check with calipers before boxing. Bullet setback in the magazine could be a recipe for a bad over pressure situation if sets back too far. How many firings do you have on your brass? If the brass has several firings on it could be getting work hardened which would affect the spring back of the brass after the expander is drawn back through the neck, but typically you will start seeing neck cracks. (The solution for work hardening would be annealing which I typically do after 3 firings. If you have another set of dies in something 30 cal like 30/06 or 308 you could compare expander ball dimensions if worn I bet the manufacturer would send you an expander ball or two under warranty even after 30 years.
Last edited by garymc; 04/20/18 06:40 AM.
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222221
04/20/18 07:34 AM
04/20/18 07:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,028 West Cent IL
illinideer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2015
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West Cent IL
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I have taken the expander out and used fine sand paper to to clean it up and take it down a little. Plus RCBS has excellent customer service they have sent me replacement parts for some of my reloading stuff that was passed down to me from my late uncle. NO charge and a thank you can't beat that. Justin
Coyote 5 Badger 1 Coons 17 Bobcats 2 Released Grinners All of them USN AE2 VF-31 Tomcatters Retired SMSGT IL ANG 183 Fighter Wing Coyote U Class #4
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222235
04/20/18 07:57 AM
04/20/18 07:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 149 Northern MI
paradork
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 149
Northern MI
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Look at your brass. Had similar issues last year. Brass quality has really gone down hill. It's really springy. Winchester has been the worst for me. Had a gun that was 3 shots in one hole, not clover leaf. 3 shots. 308 hole. Issues came up eventually tracked it down to the brass not uniformly sizing resulting in inconsistent neck tension. Switched to Papua brass. Problem solved.
Don't do anything you don't want to explain to the paramedics. I do appreciate a good story tho.
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: paradork]
#6222245
04/20/18 08:08 AM
04/20/18 08:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042 SE Kansas
K52
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
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Look at your brass. Had similar issues last year. Brass quality has really gone down hill. It's really springy. Winchester has been the worst for me. Had a gun that was 3 shots in one hole, not clover leaf. 3 shots. 308 hole. Issues came up eventually tracked it down to the brass not uniformly sizing resulting in inconsistent neck tension. Switched to Papua brass. Problem solved. I'm sure para meant Lapua brass. It's pricey but I'll bet it will solve your problem, not all brass is created equal.
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222248
04/20/18 08:11 AM
04/20/18 08:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852 meadowview, Virginia
EdP
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Joined: Mar 2012
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meadowview, Virginia
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James, I think you identified the key difference WRT .300 WM, that being the very short neck, and yet I load my .270 with the bullets so far out that there is well less than one diameter in contact with the neck and have no problem. Does the problem occur the first time new brass is loaded (or the 1st reload of factory rounds,) or does it take several reloadings before it appears? That would point to work hardening and the fix would be to anneal.
You said you reload for a dozen or more cartridges. Is not one of them another .30 cal? If so, check the expander ball diameter vs. the expander in your .300 WM die. Also check for a crud build-up or burr on the expander ball.
Denny Russell suggested your die may not be resizing adequately and to check the neck on a case resized with the expander removed. You should be able to feel if the ball is expanding the neck. The expander is the only thing creating resistance on the return stroke.
This is an interesting topic. Please let us know what you find.
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222252
04/20/18 08:17 AM
04/20/18 08:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
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My 300 has never had a factory round in it since the factory proof fired it. Happened with new dies and brass when i was still experimenting with loads and bullets. That short neck explantion sounds plausible
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222379
04/20/18 11:24 AM
04/20/18 11:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,324 Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29
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Hancock Co., Indiana
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Are you sure you are getting all the resizing lube out of the inside of the case neck before seating the bullet?
It should be easy enough to mic the diameter of the expander ball and see if it too big. It wouldn't take too much effort to polish it down in diameter if needed.
I wonder if your seating die is start the bullet a little crooked and the bullet is stretching the neck a little out of round on the bullet's way in. Is there any excess runout in the bullet after being seated?
What from Christ that soul can sever, Bound by everlasting bands? None shall take thee From the Strength of Israel's hands.
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Re: Hand-loaders, I have a problem
[Re: James]
#6222510
04/20/18 03:39 PM
04/20/18 03:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689 pa
hippie
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Posts: 19,689
pa
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Common sense plays a HUGE roll in reloading, and more importantly understanding your problems.
Guys can give you every possible answer to every possible problem, but which problem do you have?
Does it feel like your expanding ball gives you resistance, as in you down sized your case neck enough, to start with?
If so, did you measure your resized case? (expanded it too far?)
You should be able to feel your problem, and if not, measure and find it that way.
Last edited by hippie; 04/20/18 03:40 PM.
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