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. #6260967
06/16/18 03:20 PM
06/16/18 03:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7,003
Louisiana
Aix sponsa Offline OP
trapper
Aix sponsa  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7,003
Louisiana
.


Whether you think you can or can稚, you池e usually right. - Ford

Winners Focus on Winning - Morris
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261001
06/16/18 04:19 PM
06/16/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,941
Lower Alabama (Daleville)
L
LAtrapper Offline
"Professor"
LAtrapper  Offline
"Professor"
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,941
Lower Alabama (Daleville)
Aix sponsa- You are over your PM limit.


Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).

Ron Fry

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261135
06/16/18 10:01 PM
06/16/18 10:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Since Oct. 29, 2010 I have used swim through cage traps of varying sizes from 32 to 48 inches long in widths from 12 to 24 and heights from 10 to 15 inches and simply put, they all worked great, exceeding expectations. Most of the time I use a 12x18x39 or 36, which sort of duplicates a 660, a trap I used with great success for years, but have used larger and smaller cages to fit different runs. Even the 12x12x36 has taken 61 and 63 pound beaver. As a swim through trap, though many have used them on land quite successfully, I have chosen to stay in the water for which they were designed, with and without lure, duplicating what you would do with a 280, 330 or 660 conibear. The 10 inch trap was used for a specific purpose to comply with a law. In at least one state a drowning set has to be checked less frequently than a set with a live beaver. They found many shallow instances that a 12 inch high trap would produce a live beaver so rather than spend time digging out a channel, they used a 10 inch trap under water. If a guy wanted to land set he could get a single door 1080 Havahart and just put lure in the back, not my thing. The swim through traps are great in water.

Like any device that can easily be seen by a beaver, if a beaver is square shy from an encounter with a conibear, he may avoid the trap. In that regard a cage and conibear are similar. If a beaver doesn't hit the cage first or second night, I switch gears and waste no time changing plans. Grab a foothold, Bailey, maybe a Hancock on the dam or perhaps a well hidden snare. I have seen beaver climb out and go fifty feet around a snare more than once too, so even a snare is not 100%.

Conibears usually have an 8 to 10 inch opening for height, so the traps do not have to be taller than 12 inches. I have never, in 8 years experienced refusals as such for size, just a square shy beaver now and then left over from trapping season.

Some things to avoid are generic. I like to set very late in the day as much as possible, just before dark. The beaver are emerging to feed and can often be taken in an hour down to minutes. In that way there if far less chance of encountering a non-target like a turtle, muskrat, otter, fish etc. I know some will say, what if they smell you or see you? If you have castor on the bank they will just about go over you to get to it. I have had to dispatch beaver at close range at dark with rifle and potato hook that were ready to do battle when they smelled the castor on me.

We all come to runs that are too deep for our boots, runs we can't quite reach. A swim through beaver trap with swing bar trigger can literally be thrown in and will never fire, and yet it has the sensitivity to take a rat. I tossed that in becauseI was just asked that question about deep runs that were too deep for boots. You can set almost any run you can find, putting the cage way ahead of a conibear. The trap can sit in soft mud a few inches deep that bleeds up through the wires without causing issues with firing and catching. Cages can be set in small culverts down to 2 feet and 18 inches if the doors are internal. No wiring, no stabilizing, just a drop in. They will also work on concrete, hardpan, cobblestone and bedrock.

Basically, whatever you did with your conibears, you can do with a cage, and then some.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261214
06/17/18 12:54 AM
06/17/18 12:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Im curious how you know that you have never had a refusal in 8 years. I have only been using cages for beaver for 2 years. I run alot of cameras and have seen multiple refusals from smaller cages.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261297
06/17/18 03:35 AM
06/17/18 03:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
It's common to catch a pair of beaver with castor over night, side by side sets, with just two cages in less than 12 hours. Have also cleaned many colonies with large numbers of beaver with cages in a few days, 12 just recently. They just kept coming. There were 3 females, 55, 57 and 61 pounds. If there is a refusal for a cage by an individual beaver at a specific set sometime during the night I wouldn't know about because they are in the cages when I get there. All they have to do is go through one once. Not sure about what you mean by refusals on "smaller cages," or what type of cage or how it was set.

I do sometimes wonder if beaver communicate when live caught. I caught three large beaver one night with traps partially out of water and using castor. Beaver were alive. Other beaver in the colony were then afraid of the location and castor. After seeing 10 beaver cage caught, the last one had to be snared.

A G door will work of course, but you can't really hide them easily, brush must be kept from the doors, they won't go into tight places, will freeze up in cold weather as they can't be set shallow. Try to toss one into a deep run and keep it set. With self contained low profile cages you pile on the brush, logs, whatever you like to hide a trap.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261521
06/17/18 03:01 PM
06/17/18 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Smaller traps as in 12x12. Refuse to go into the trap. If its completely submerged, no problems. I have no problem tossing my G door trap into deep runs, or putting them upside down to block the entire run . Swing doors do fit in more tight places. But I rarely set tight places with a cage . Live beaver definitely attracts more beaver. I have video of caught beaver with 2 more swimming around it.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Jim Comstock] #6261526
06/17/18 03:06 PM
06/17/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Jim Comstock
If there is a refusal for a cage by an individual beaver at a specific set sometime during the night I wouldn't know about because they are in the cages when I get there. All they have to do is go through one once.


How do you know its not a different beaver that ended up in the cage? A refusal is a refusal no matter if he enters at a later time or not.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261604
06/17/18 04:39 PM
06/17/18 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
I have no cameras set up so I could not speculate as to what happens over night and am not really all that concerned with precisely what occurs as long as the end result is success, which it is has been for going on a decade. My experiences have been that the beaver swim through the trap first time and get caught. Bottom line, if you have beavers in the traps when you arrive and there are no more beaver present, the job is done. Can't ask for more. I'm not missing, not having sprung traps, not having refusals. I just set and catch beaver.

The wire trigger, with internal powered door traps were made as a swim through trap, which is where they shine. The refusal aspect is not an issue with what I do, nor do I hear it from the hundreds of others doing pretty much what we are doing. A 12x18x39 trap from the end is not intimidating as the cage wire is only 1/4 inch. When I set the first one in 2010, had no idea if it would work, but the western guys knew. Anyway, first day a rat, then 10 beaver in a row. Should hit the 1,000 mark this summer or fall as we are now at 970.

A couple of years ago I took a rep from a big pest control company with me. Had 3 spots to set. Told him not to come early as I set later in the day as it would take no time. I don't load up with cages either. Many times I set but two, for new colonies. It's not like a load a location and just hope something will connect. Two traps will most often yield two beaver. That day we set but 6 traps, 2,2,2 at 3 locations. Next day the 3 jobs were done, 5 beaver and a turtle.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261637
06/17/18 05:25 PM
06/17/18 05:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Here, a beaver refusing to go in a cage for 5 minutes can result in a nutria in the cage instead of the beaver coming back in 10 minutes to enter an open cage. You can just about guarantee you will need extra sets just for nutria.

You say you dont know what goes on, yet say you never have refusals. Non targets dont always beat the beaver TO the cage, just entering it.
Thats my point I think you're missing.

Last edited by AirportTrapper; 06/17/18 05:25 PM.

If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261656
06/17/18 06:25 PM
06/17/18 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
I make blind sets, dam break sets, castor mounds , swim through (Like a swim around with a snare). Trail sets, positive sets. You can do all kinds of things with them.

Size, my 14x17x36, or the comstock 12x18.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261684
06/17/18 07:14 PM
06/17/18 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
Comstocks are a great trap for underwater beaver trapping. If set with the doors down, it pushes any grass and sticks down and out of the way. Also like that there are no safety catches to forget on the Comstocks. It's a sturdy trap that doesn't weigh too much.

I'm in Washington. It's a daily check if we set cages as a live set here. If set underwater, it's every third day.
My most consistently productive set is pictured. It's a channel below a dam crossover. This channel is just wide enough and just deep enough for a 12x12 Comstock. It guards the river access from a series of beaver ponds. This set is usually plugged with a flattail on nearly every check. It doesn't look like it but that is a five foot drop over the dam.


Here's the same set looking up-


Downside of cages vs. conis is size, weight and a cage doesn't fit in as many places. A lot of dam crossovers are short, steep and open up into wide pools. Tailor made for a coni or snare but tough to get 3' of straight and level run to get a cage in.

Here's another one set in a dam break. If you have the room and can put the cage in at an angle, it helps keep debris from tripping the trigger.

Last edited by wildflights; 06/17/18 07:30 PM.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261688
06/17/18 07:23 PM
06/17/18 07:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
We all trap somewhere, but not everywhere. Obviously each of us has different variables, situations, conditions to deal with depending on where we are located. In my area I have learned how to work with what I have, beating problems and adapting in such a way so as not have issues with non-target catches, sprung traps, refusals or wasted time and trips. Equipment is only as good as the operator. It takes effort and time to put traps and methods together to form working systems. The cage traps themselves work very well, so it's up to the user to develop a program that addresses the issues that confront them.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261695
06/17/18 07:32 PM
06/17/18 07:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Thanks for sharing the photos. I have not used the 12x12 in a dam break myself but others have, as shown. The best part in all this is seeing how well so many do in experimenting with new and different methods. Dan Gates in Colorado came up with a simple solution to pond setting where there are no narrow spots, only wide open areas. He set a 12x18x39 cage just under water, then piled grass and leaves on top with mud to finish it off. With a little castor on top beaver just swim around and under which of course ends the swimming.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Jim Comstock] #6261812
06/18/18 12:24 AM
06/18/18 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Jason Turner Offline
trapper
Jason Turner  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Jim Comstock
Thanks for sharing the photos. I have not used the 12x12 in a dam break myself but others have, as shown. The best part in all this is seeing how well so many do in experimenting with new and different methods. Dan Gates in Colorado came up with a simple solution to pond setting where there are no narrow spots, only wide open areas. He set a 12x18x39 cage just under water, then piled grass and leaves on top with mud to finish it off. With a little castor on top beaver just swim around and under which of course ends the swimming.



^^^ Sounds like the dam break set with your big cage Jom. Or at least that痴 how I知 doing it葉he cage covers the small break then I use landscape fabric for covering and pile on the mud and debris until it痴 hidden. It just WORKS!

Last edited by Jason Turner; 06/18/18 12:24 AM.

Wildlife Removal, Etc.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261862
06/18/18 01:46 AM
06/18/18 01:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
Originally Posted By: Aix sponsa

Wildflights, please explain exactly what you mean about setting doors down, and it helping with debris?


The doors on the Comstock stick out a little from the cage when set. Place the trap so that the doors close upwards. It makes the trap (with doors) longer on the bottom and the doors will press down the grass/millfoil/sticks so that they are not in the way when the trap is fired.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262096
06/18/18 01:56 PM
06/18/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:

The wire trigger, with internal powered door traps were made as a swim through trap, which is where they shine. The refusal aspect is not an issue with what I do, nor do I hear it from the hundreds of others doing pretty much what we are doing. A 12x18x39 trap from the end is not intimidating as the cage wire is only 1/4 inch.


That's because you not setting fully exposed traps on land. I have experimented hundreds of times setting traps on land for beaver and otter. I have set them side by side and on runs. It has been the same conclusion as exposed conibears on land. To get around that I found the most effective trap for all locations has been a 14" wide powered long spring guillotine door trap at least 32 " long, with a set door height 16" or more. The trap can be floated as a pair or as a single trap. To catch circling beaver after the first catch. It can be set in a dam set paraelle to the dam and catching the beaver as he comes to
patch the dam, at the new opening. It can just be set in the water paraelle to the dam, or bank, and catch them as they swim down the dam or bank. Set completely under the water on a run. Set right out in the water in 3 to 9" of water baited as a single trap, pair set, or triangle cage trap set for multiples. Set as a castor mound set. Set on land on a run and be very effective.

I experimented with 12 x 12, 12 x 13, 12 x 14, 13 x 14, plus many other sizes to 20" wide lock doored traps. The experimenting was even greater for the guillotine doored traps.


When the trap is set on land the beaver has time to surmise the situation ahead of time. A large beaver at not want to enter if there is a question about size for his body. On a run under water he is in the trap before he knows it.

A swing down door allows to traps to be set side by side in a baited set in 6" of water with lure between them, but unless the trap is at least 14" wide and has 14" of set door height, it will not be as effective. With a swing down door a triangle multiple catch set won,t work well. The door sticks out and won,t allow an effective set.







Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262100
06/18/18 02:08 PM
06/18/18 02:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
A guillotine doored trap has more space in the trap when the door is shut. This allows a larger beaver to be caught and more easily removed than a lock bar doored trap. A beaver up to 65 pounds can be readily caght in a 12x12x34 powered guillotine doored trap. I have been using the same one over 6 years with many catches from 60 to 65lbs. The shorter the trap, the easier it is for an animal to enter. There are others on this forum that have had the same experience.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262438
06/19/18 01:47 AM
06/19/18 01:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Jason Turner Offline
trapper
Jason Turner  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Regarding exposed cages, all other factors considered, are they consistently catching due to the safety factor created by water depth inside the cage AND the height if the door?


Wildlife Removal, Etc.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262708
06/19/18 12:46 PM
06/19/18 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
The most common way to trap beaver since the 60's has been with conibears due to the speed, ease and versatility with which they could be set under water in runs where beaver spend a great deal of time and are most comfortable. When there is any kind of danger or uncertainty where does a beaver go? Not on the bank. What set the swim through beaver traps apart from other cage traps 8 years ago was their ability to be set under water to duplicate the function of a conibear. The wire trigger with the powered doors made that possible. With the new capabilities the swim throughs could be dropped in 8 or 10 inch runs just out of water, in 14 inch water just under water or in very deep runs several feet deep, which made the trap a conibear substitute in a trap with a deeply recessed trigger. Better yet, cages do not require stabilization, a level playing field or wiring, just drop and go.

Pan traps and pan cages have been around forever. Land setting for beaver, something I have not relied on as there has been no real need for it, is a step in the other direction. You could use a 1081 Havahart if land trapping for beaver is your thing. Land setting for beaver is more about forcing, "a duck out of water." Beaver don't walk or fly to arrive at land set, but swim there. I'm happy catch them in the water on the way. I have not burdened myself with figuring out problems with cage heights, widths etc. in land setting. Set in water, the swim through cages work in whatever size you have.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262737
06/19/18 01:37 PM
06/19/18 01:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
It would be nice to be able to have deep enough water at every location to submerge the cage.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
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