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Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265002
06/22/18 05:54 PM
06/22/18 05:54 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
Jason, I have found that beaver "talk." Got 3 big ones on castor one night, all alive in cages just a bit out of water. Next night nothing. Thought I might be done. Turns out there were 8 more beaver. None of which would return to that location.
_________________________


Just move to another location in the pond, change the lure and presentation.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265007
06/22/18 06:02 PM
06/22/18 06:02 PM
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Georgia
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Quote:
Guillotine door traps are great, if you don't mind putting up with all the obvious limitations that will force abandonment of a great many locations. Just imagine the difference in trying to squeeze a 30 inch tall monster in a 12 inch slot.


I use both lock bar doored traps and powered guillotine doored traps. By far my first choice to go in the truck is a powered guillotine doored trap.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265014
06/22/18 06:11 PM
06/22/18 06:11 PM
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Quote:
I do like 4 way triggers with side to side firing, but have found that after a thousand catches with 660 magnums, the two way triggers Rich Kaspar made work just fine for beaver, otter and rats. The same is also true for the powered door cages.


I see no problem either with a two way "conibear" type trigger. A two way swing bar trigger has more limitation in baited sets due to what I eluded to in an earlier post.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265025
06/22/18 06:45 PM
06/22/18 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Back to the exposed cage thing...if a beaver is caught and held for a period of time and is observed by the rest of the colony, will it lead to refusals?
_________________


Example: This last February I set two conibears on underwater runs on main channel. I set two 17"t x 14" wide guillotine doored traps side by side in 8"of water set to where the beaver would go through the traps to get to the lure. I caught two that night. Made same set back and caught one the second night. The third night I had nothing. Moved traps about 50 yards and set in 6-8" of water side by side 5" apart, with lure between them. Caught one more. Moved traps closer to first two catches and added another trap to make a triangle cage set in 6-8" of water. Caught 3 in the three traps. Made set back at same location and had nothing the next two days. Heavy rain came, had two more. Ended up with none in 330's and 12 in cages when I took traps out.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265204
06/23/18 01:17 AM
06/23/18 01:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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Jim Comstock  Offline
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New York
Anyone who lives in the colder climates, like half the country or more, where ice is a factor, would never have a G door trap to use for beaver and otter. For that matter not so good for cats and the like when snow piles up, thaws and freezes. No good way to cover the doors. I often set runs where ice is present or will form after I set. All that's needed is water just a little deeper than the trap, 14 inches or so. Have to do a lot of looking for a run to accommodate a door sticking up like a flag 30 to 36 inches high in frozen areas. Sure would be "fun" chopping out a run for under ice and find that a 28 inch deep run was too shallow. At times I slide cages into culverts or under boat docks where its a tight squeeze. That would be a big no for the G door. Not difficult to understand that it makes a whole lot of sense to use equipment that it that most versatile. Heck, on a dam break set a powered lock bar trap can freeze in solid, but will fire and catch when set upside down as the trigger is on the bottom and the upside door in the pond in under water. The powered locker traps are not heavy and can be stacked. First time I did it I had an otter on the bottom and a rat on the top.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265570
06/23/18 04:58 PM
06/23/18 04:58 PM
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Quote:
I use both lock bar doored traps and powered guillotine doored traps. By far my first choice to go in the truck is a powered guillotine doored trap.


I doubt if there is a handful of trappers, that when given the chance to trap under the ice, would even want to use a cage of any design make or model.

Very few would even want a 200$ cage to be inactive for a long ice over.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265574
06/23/18 05:10 PM
06/23/18 05:10 PM
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Quote:
At times I slide cages into culverts or under boat docks where its a tight squeeze. That would be a big no for the G door. Not difficult to understand that it makes a whole lot of sense to use equipment that it that most versatile



What about a trap with a powered guillotine door on one end and a lockbar door on the other. You could choose the door you may need for the set. Would allow easy removal of live or non targeted animals.

Could set flush or not.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265620
06/23/18 07:56 PM
06/23/18 07:56 PM
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Quote:
I知 sure the same set could be made using snares or bodygrips and fencing, but a cage trap may be more appropriate at times. There痴 probably a smaller chance of damage to the dock with an enclosed cage, etc. I get that. Would someone mind describing sets they have made under docks using cage traps, how they supported the trap (shelf construction, stapling cage to dock, etc), and how they lured or baited it?
_____________________


I used to go to over 400 set locations every winter for about 13 years before I slowed down. When all the years are included, no matter the methods used, I can count on my hand the locations where beaver activity was under the dock. In all of the situations the water level, in relation to the dock and slope of bank was such that one could not get under the dock. The best location was never under the dock. It was always near or somewhere else in the pond or small lake.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265737
06/24/18 12:28 AM
06/24/18 12:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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Jim Comstock  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
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New York
Love under ice setting, even more so with cages. If I had to choose one time of year and condition it would be December and ice. When the snow is up your crotch and ice is a foot thick or more during the dead of winter I do back off, with cages or conibears. Lots of work. But in the early going when there is 2 to 4 inches the powered door lock bar cages really shine, even in 14 inches of water, don't need much. Ice is the best deadman on the planet. Puts the beaver on the bottom of the runs so they come easy. Two inches of solid ice is all you need. I will even push it to 1-1/2 but move slowly. Once you start opening holes and spot the runs you can drop several cages on the bottom to in essence form a fence on a fairly wide creek, 5 feet plus, except the fence is all traps. And, you don't have to fence a really wide creek in it's entirety, just look for the travel ways. Working from ice is like having a boat to work from, but the boat does not tip or move and it covers the entire waterway. You can skip around everywhere and anywhere with ease and set any location you like.

Holes can be opened quickly with an axe while the traps can be dropped in as fast as you can set them. Got 11 beaver out of one December colony a couple of years ago, with a nice 60 pound female in a shallow tight run by a partial dam. I was done with the colony in three nights. If you set 4 to 6 cages it's not unusual to have a beaver in every one. Just too easy.

Aix, the location under the dock the last time was exactly the same height as the space under the dock, squeezed it in. The beaver were going under and feeding. I set on Adirondack glacial cobblestone from fist sized to basketball mainly. Got both beaver in the set, two nights. What's great about a double door lock bar with low profile is you can set them and slide them into a culvert as far as the potato hook will reach, not a flush set on the outside, but a deep set on the inside, well out of sight of anyone even looking for traps. One lock bar door might be good, but two is better, again more options. Love to push the traps way up inside a small tight culvert, no wires to give it away, no stabilizing and no high stand up G doors to say, "please steal me."

I have set 4 foot deep water on angled bedrock under docks and done the same, catch and go. Always peace of mind with internal doors and triggers, nothing to catch and foul on a stick or piece of brush you missed or drifted in. With internal parts anything and everything you want can be piled on to camo the trap, even a 100 pound log isn't off limits, all without any special considerations or worry.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266652
06/25/18 02:16 PM
06/25/18 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Can anyone talk about the different sets they make with cage traps?


Trap Guillotine long spring wire trigger 14x17x32-38".

1. set on a cross over on land
2. crossover at waters edge
3. run under water or shallow water
4. one to two traps parallel in run
5. one or two traps lured between traps parallel to bank
6. Small opening in dam or pipe set perpendicular to opening using one or two traps.
7. one or two traps set in 5-8" of water about 5" apart lured on debris between traps on run or
perpendicular and just out of main channel
8. one or two traps floated with pvc pontoons
9. castor mound set with one or two traps
10. box culvert sets hung or set on floor of culvert
11. trap parallel to sea wall with lure against wall. Can be hung if needed.
______________


When I make a list using a lockbardoored trap I come up short.

I left out the ability to avoid turtles and non targets is easier in the guillotine doored traps with a 330 conibear hanging trigger.

I say again: I use both guillotine doored traps, traps with guillotine a guillotine door on one end and lock bar door on the other, as well as several models and sizes of lock bar doored traps.

What I have found is that None have the ability to catch as the 14x17x32-38 powered guillotine doored traps have.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266659
06/25/18 02:28 PM
06/25/18 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Working from ice is like having a boat to work from, but the boat does not tip or move and it covers the entire waterway. You can skip around everywhere and anywhere with ease and set any location you like.


I picture a trapper pulling a sled with dozens of snares and conibears. I can,t however see the practicality of pulling a sled any distance with the same number of set opportunities with cage traps. The practical aspects are just not there.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266677
06/25/18 03:11 PM
06/25/18 03:11 PM
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Jim

All of your posts for beaver have made reference to your using traps with lock bar doors in actual catches for beaver. You state all of these problems that could and will arise if using a powered guillotine doored trap.

Have you ever used a long spring (high speed) guillotine doored trap for beaver to actually know for sure what you are saying is accurate.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266777
06/25/18 06:16 PM
06/25/18 06:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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Jim Comstock  Offline
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New York
Paramount in the decision making process required for selecting the most effective equipment available is finding those catching devices that are the most versatile, traps that can be set in more ways, positions, situations and at more locations than others. If the traps are more stabile, all the better. For those who are fixated on a trap with a door that fires straight down that may also be shown to be roll over proof or close to it, a powered, bifold door trap, again with internal components and zero clearance, able to be shoved into tight places with flush mount capabilities, nothing sticking up or out, is yet a second device that is far superior to a G door trap.

I know of an incident where a bifold cage got rolled 20 yards down a trail with a cat in it. At first thought to be stolen, that was not the case. My impression when I saw the photo was, "what an ugly cat." No wonder, it was a lion kitten. The female had rolled the cage down the trail trying to free the young one, but no luck. Forty pound cat was in the cage that showed sign of wear, no escape.

I have no allegiance to style or type of device, but to what form dictates superiority.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266782
06/25/18 06:25 PM
06/25/18 06:25 PM
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Quote:
I know of an incident where a bifold cage got rolled 20 yards down a trail with a cat in it. At first thought to be stolen, that was not the case. My impression when I saw the photo was, "what an ugly cat." No wonder, it was a lion kitten. The female had rolled the cage down the trail trying to free the young one, but no luck. Forty pound cat was in the cage that showed sign of wear, no escape.


Like this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLPoxdm0hwY

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266797
06/25/18 06:46 PM
06/25/18 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Jim

All of your posts for beaver have made reference to your using traps with lock bar doors in actual catches for beaver. You state all of these problems that could and will arise if using a powered guillotine doored trap.

Have you ever used a long spring (high speed) guillotine doored trap for beaver to actually know for sure what you are saying is accurate.


Quote:
I have no allegiance to style or type of device, but to what form dictates superiority



How would you really know unless you used them?

As far as bi-fold doors for beaver, because the way they fall and close, they are not as fast in a tall trap going through water as a powered longspring guillotine door trap. The folded door also limits trap design more than a guillotine door trap.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266882
06/25/18 09:32 PM
06/25/18 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Let痴 talk about using double door, powered door, wire trigger (not pan) fired cage traps for beaver. Tell me about the sets you like to make, when you choose to use them when other options are also available, how you usually lure them, how you secure them, and any additional information about them, including problems and mistakes to avoid. Let痴 try to keep it focused on beavers for this one if possible. Beaver cage traps 101, let痴 go.



The easiest set to make using a guillotine doored trap that is at least 14" wide x 17' tall and 32-38" long is two traps side by side in 6 to 8" of water about 5 inches apart. I wire the traps with 16 ga wire on each end about 5" apart. I take grass or weeds and place between the two traps with lure as a scent set. That way when the first is caught the traps stay in position for the next catch. If catching otter, fish may be caged or on a stringer between the two traps. Block off the ends with a clipped branch stuck in the mud. If there is enough room, and many beaver,set them in the shape of a triangle. Best to be out in the water and place muddy grass on top of traps for eye appeal.

The same set could be set perpendicular with scent just outside of run or right in middle of run with or without scent.

The beaver or otter works the trap at an angle with his tail next to the back side wall(14" wide trap). This makes him spin, bringing his tail into the trap when the door falls. The conibear trigger is formed into a "W". The beaver will hit the trigger with his shoulder or try to push through the loop formed by the trigger. If my trigger was a swing bar trigger the beaver would have to go to the left or right more so not allowing as free of movement in the trap. If a 12" tall trap were used the beaver would be less likely to enter because of water depth. If the trap was 18" tall, with the swing bar on its side, movement through the trap would be restricted. The taller trap also keeps the animal from climbing on and over the top. If the doors were lock bar doors that stuck out on the ends the circling beaver would have further to go around to enter the traps. The lock bar doored traps ends would not match in a triangle set.

Or just set in a run in water, on land, or under water.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266888
06/25/18 09:52 PM
06/25/18 09:52 PM
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What if there were no runs and you only had one trap and what if it was not 16" or more in height, but you have several places where the water out from the bank was 6to 8" deep?

Set the trap out in the water. Place a piece of half inch plywood the length of your trap with two metal rods attached, into the mud about 5 inches from the trap on each side. Fill in the gap with mud and debris. Pile debris and mud on top of trap. Place lure on each side next to the outside wall of the trap 4" on each side of trigger.

Beaver will circle into trap using the trap as a channel.

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