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#6264280 - 06/21/18 10:00 AM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/18/16
Posts: 477
Loc: Louisiana
I put it upside down so the cage is at top of water to help hold debri on top of cage.
_________________________
If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.

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#6264317 - 06/21/18 11:14 AM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Aix sponsa Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 6726
Loc: Louisiana
That makes the debris like a dive stick, only better. That痴 cool
_________________________
If you can either quickly or quietly switch out shells, you can bring home almost anything.

Don稚 Tread On Me!

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#6264352 - 06/21/18 12:13 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
what are the advantages of setting a trap upside down if the entire trap is submerged anyway?


With a swing bar trigger setting upside down makes the trap appear more open. The doors on the bottom and the protruding up swing bar guide the beaver up through the top of the trap, limiting the amount of force the beaver can put against the door because of the angle of the doors. If the trap were right side up the beavers momentum and body would be down low into the trap and at the bottom of the doors. If the doors don,t lock the beaver can possibly push his way on through the door. The wire floor and the beavers claws allow much leverage for a large strong beaver. With the trap upside down the beaver can,t get the leverage needed to open the door fast enough before he drowns.

The trap being upside down is not needed if the doors lock as they go down.

It really is only a problem on a short trap or a large fast moving beaver that has momentum and size to force the door back up enough to squeeze it open before he drowns. Upside down makes it very hard for any means to fight the trap, especially under water. A wider trap also helps to reduce the chance of the door not locking before the beaver drowns. It makes him want to pull his body in and then fight the trap, especially with a large beaver, causing his demise.

Out of water, upside down makes an uneven floor. Sometimes it matters and some time not.

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#6264477 - 06/21/18 04:32 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Can anyone talk about the different sets they make with cage traps?


Trap Guillotine long spring wire trigger 14x17x32-38".

1. set on a cross over on land
2. crossover at waters edge
3. run under water or shallow water
4. one to two traps parallel in run
5. one or two traps lured between traps parallel to bank
6. Small opening in dam or pipe set perpendicular to opening using one or two traps.
7. one or two traps set in 5-8" of water about 5" apart lured on debris between traps on run or
perpendicular and just out of main channel
8. one or two traps floated with pvc pontoons
9. castor mound set with one or two traps
10. box culvert sets hung or set on floor of culvert
11. trap parallel to sea wall with lure against wall. Can be hung if needed.

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#6264578 - 06/21/18 07:21 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Jason Turner Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/25/15
Posts: 166
Loc: Arkansas
Back to the exposed cage thing...if a beaver is caught and held for a period of time and is observed by the rest of the colony, will it lead to refusals?
_________________________
Wildlife Removal, Etc.

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#6264636 - 06/21/18 09:02 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 134
Loc: New York
Setting upside down is definitely the way to go with lock bar type powered door cage traps. Debris is always kept under the doors, stuff you might not see in deep or dark water. A door firing downward can pick up junk and could get jammed. Firing up through water free of debris provides for clean firing and catch. I don't think I can remember a time in 8 years that I have ever had a door jammed, though a few times a beaver has carried sticks that got caught right along with the beaver.

Guillotine door traps are great, if you don't mind putting up with all the obvious limitations that will force abandonment of a great many locations. Just imagine the difference in trying to squeeze a 30 inch tall monster in a 12 inch slot. Ain't gonna happen. Internal doors, either powered lock bar or bifold make for clean setting, nothing sticking up or out. Placing logs on top of a lock bar trap will all but make the trap disappear. The bottom of the trap can sink into the muck while the top of the trap and log become "one."

I do like 4 way triggers with side to side firing, but have found that after a thousand catches with 660 magnums, the two way triggers Rich Kaspar made work just fine for beaver, otter and rats. The same is also true for the powered door cages.

Jason, I have found that beaver "talk." Got 3 big ones on castor one night, all alive in cages just a bit out of water. Next night nothing. Thought I might be done. Turns out there were 8 more beaver. None of which would return to that location.

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#6264793 - 06/22/18 07:13 AM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Jason Turner Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/25/15
Posts: 166
Loc: Arkansas
That痴 what I have noticed too then Jim. They don稚 like to see one of their own kind in distress. In my area, I can catch multiples in a snare location unless it痴 a female with pups. I may be doing some things incorrectly but that痴 my experience.
_________________________
Wildlife Removal, Etc.

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#6265002 - 06/22/18 12:54 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Jason, I have found that beaver "talk." Got 3 big ones on castor one night, all alive in cages just a bit out of water. Next night nothing. Thought I might be done. Turns out there were 8 more beaver. None of which would return to that location.
_________________________


Just move to another location in the pond, change the lure and presentation.

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#6265007 - 06/22/18 01:02 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Guillotine door traps are great, if you don't mind putting up with all the obvious limitations that will force abandonment of a great many locations. Just imagine the difference in trying to squeeze a 30 inch tall monster in a 12 inch slot.


I use both lock bar doored traps and powered guillotine doored traps. By far my first choice to go in the truck is a powered guillotine doored trap.

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#6265014 - 06/22/18 01:11 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
I do like 4 way triggers with side to side firing, but have found that after a thousand catches with 660 magnums, the two way triggers Rich Kaspar made work just fine for beaver, otter and rats. The same is also true for the powered door cages.


I see no problem either with a two way "conibear" type trigger. A two way swing bar trigger has more limitation in baited sets due to what I eluded to in an earlier post.

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#6265025 - 06/22/18 01:45 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Back to the exposed cage thing...if a beaver is caught and held for a period of time and is observed by the rest of the colony, will it lead to refusals?
_________________


Example: This last February I set two conibears on underwater runs on main channel. I set two 17"t x 14" wide guillotine doored traps side by side in 8"of water set to where the beaver would go through the traps to get to the lure. I caught two that night. Made same set back and caught one the second night. The third night I had nothing. Moved traps about 50 yards and set in 6-8" of water side by side 5" apart, with lure between them. Caught one more. Moved traps closer to first two catches and added another trap to make a triangle cage set in 6-8" of water. Caught 3 in the three traps. Made set back at same location and had nothing the next two days. Heavy rain came, had two more. Ended up with none in 330's and 12 in cages when I took traps out.

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#6265090 - 06/22/18 04:26 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Kirk De]
Aix sponsa Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 6726
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Kirk De
Quote:
Back to the exposed cage thing...if a beaver is caught and held for a period of time and is observed by the rest of the colony, will it lead to refusals?
_________________


Example: This last February I set two conibears on underwater runs on main channel. I set two 17"t x 14" wide guillotine doored traps side by side in 8"of water set to where the beaver would go through the traps to get to the lure. I caught two that night. Made same set back and caught one the second night. The third night I had nothing. Moved traps about 50 yards and set in 6-8" of water side by side 5" apart, with lure between them. Caught one more. Moved traps closer to first two catches and added another trap to make a triangle cage set in 6-8" of water. Caught 3 in the three traps. Made set back at same location and had nothing the next two days. Heavy rain came, had two more. Ended up with none in 330's and 12 in cages when I took traps out.



Sounds a lot like what I do with coons in dry trails. When I make a catch, I move my 220 to the next pinch point if it痴 nearby. If it痴 a thick grassy trail, then I move my trap, oh I don稚 know, 10 feet? 15-20 feet? Point is, I move them. Yes, I致e caught them in traps after I simply emptied the catch and reset, but I致e had much better luck by not waiting a day or two of no catches. I go ahead and move it every catch, and I seem to be back on them more quickly. I camouflage my traps anyway, and I知 not positive why they avoid the original location, but it痴 all about what a person feels works best for them, and that痴 what works best for me. Others mileage may vary.

_________________________
If you can either quickly or quietly switch out shells, you can bring home almost anything.

Don稚 Tread On Me!

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#6265204 - 06/22/18 08:17 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 134
Loc: New York
Anyone who lives in the colder climates, like half the country or more, where ice is a factor, would never have a G door trap to use for beaver and otter. For that matter not so good for cats and the like when snow piles up, thaws and freezes. No good way to cover the doors. I often set runs where ice is present or will form after I set. All that's needed is water just a little deeper than the trap, 14 inches or so. Have to do a lot of looking for a run to accommodate a door sticking up like a flag 30 to 36 inches high in frozen areas. Sure would be "fun" chopping out a run for under ice and find that a 28 inch deep run was too shallow. At times I slide cages into culverts or under boat docks where its a tight squeeze. That would be a big no for the G door. Not difficult to understand that it makes a whole lot of sense to use equipment that it that most versatile. Heck, on a dam break set a powered lock bar trap can freeze in solid, but will fire and catch when set upside down as the trigger is on the bottom and the upside door in the pond in under water. The powered locker traps are not heavy and can be stacked. First time I did it I had an otter on the bottom and a rat on the top.

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#6265570 - 06/23/18 11:58 AM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
I use both lock bar doored traps and powered guillotine doored traps. By far my first choice to go in the truck is a powered guillotine doored trap.


I doubt if there is a handful of trappers, that when given the chance to trap under the ice, would even want to use a cage of any design make or model.

Very few would even want a 200$ cage to be inactive for a long ice over.

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#6265574 - 06/23/18 12:10 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
At times I slide cages into culverts or under boat docks where its a tight squeeze. That would be a big no for the G door. Not difficult to understand that it makes a whole lot of sense to use equipment that it that most versatile



What about a trap with a powered guillotine door on one end and a lockbar door on the other. You could choose the door you may need for the set. Would allow easy removal of live or non targeted animals.

Could set flush or not.

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#6265590 - 06/23/18 01:16 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Aix sponsa Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 6726
Loc: Louisiana




I知 sure the same set could be made using snares or bodygrips and fencing, but a cage trap may be more appropriate at times. There痴 probably a smaller chance of damage to the dock with an enclosed cage, etc. I get that. Would someone mind describing sets they have made under docks using cage traps, how they supported the trap (shelf construction, stapling cage to dock, etc), and how they lured or baited it?
_________________________
If you can either quickly or quietly switch out shells, you can bring home almost anything.

Don稚 Tread On Me!

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#6265620 - 06/23/18 02:56 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
I知 sure the same set could be made using snares or bodygrips and fencing, but a cage trap may be more appropriate at times. There痴 probably a smaller chance of damage to the dock with an enclosed cage, etc. I get that. Would someone mind describing sets they have made under docks using cage traps, how they supported the trap (shelf construction, stapling cage to dock, etc), and how they lured or baited it?
_____________________


I used to go to over 400 set locations every winter for about 13 years before I slowed down. When all the years are included, no matter the methods used, I can count on my hand the locations where beaver activity was under the dock. In all of the situations the water level, in relation to the dock and slope of bank was such that one could not get under the dock. The best location was never under the dock. It was always near or somewhere else in the pond or small lake.

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#6265737 - 06/23/18 07:28 PM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 134
Loc: New York
Love under ice setting, even more so with cages. If I had to choose one time of year and condition it would be December and ice. When the snow is up your crotch and ice is a foot thick or more during the dead of winter I do back off, with cages or conibears. Lots of work. But in the early going when there is 2 to 4 inches the powered door lock bar cages really shine, even in 14 inches of water, don't need much. Ice is the best deadman on the planet. Puts the beaver on the bottom of the runs so they come easy. Two inches of solid ice is all you need. I will even push it to 1-1/2 but move slowly. Once you start opening holes and spot the runs you can drop several cages on the bottom to in essence form a fence on a fairly wide creek, 5 feet plus, except the fence is all traps. And, you don't have to fence a really wide creek in it's entirety, just look for the travel ways. Working from ice is like having a boat to work from, but the boat does not tip or move and it covers the entire waterway. You can skip around everywhere and anywhere with ease and set any location you like.

Holes can be opened quickly with an axe while the traps can be dropped in as fast as you can set them. Got 11 beaver out of one December colony a couple of years ago, with a nice 60 pound female in a shallow tight run by a partial dam. I was done with the colony in three nights. If you set 4 to 6 cages it's not unusual to have a beaver in every one. Just too easy.

Aix, the location under the dock the last time was exactly the same height as the space under the dock, squeezed it in. The beaver were going under and feeding. I set on Adirondack glacial cobblestone from fist sized to basketball mainly. Got both beaver in the set, two nights. What's great about a double door lock bar with low profile is you can set them and slide them into a culvert as far as the potato hook will reach, not a flush set on the outside, but a deep set on the inside, well out of sight of anyone even looking for traps. One lock bar door might be good, but two is better, again more options. Love to push the traps way up inside a small tight culvert, no wires to give it away, no stabilizing and no high stand up G doors to say, "please steal me."

I have set 4 foot deep water on angled bedrock under docks and done the same, catch and go. Always peace of mind with internal doors and triggers, nothing to catch and foul on a stick or piece of brush you missed or drifted in. With internal parts anything and everything you want can be piled on to camo the trap, even a 100 pound log isn't off limits, all without any special considerations or worry.

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#6266652 - 06/25/18 09:16 AM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Quote:
Can anyone talk about the different sets they make with cage traps?


Trap Guillotine long spring wire trigger 14x17x32-38".

1. set on a cross over on land
2. crossover at waters edge
3. run under water or shallow water
4. one to two traps parallel in run
5. one or two traps lured between traps parallel to bank
6. Small opening in dam or pipe set perpendicular to opening using one or two traps.
7. one or two traps set in 5-8" of water about 5" apart lured on debris between traps on run or
perpendicular and just out of main channel
8. one or two traps floated with pvc pontoons
9. castor mound set with one or two traps
10. box culvert sets hung or set on floor of culvert
11. trap parallel to sea wall with lure against wall. Can be hung if needed.
______________


When I make a list using a lockbardoored trap I come up short.

I left out the ability to avoid turtles and non targets is easier in the guillotine doored traps with a 330 conibear hanging trigger.

I say again: I use both guillotine doored traps, traps with guillotine a guillotine door on one end and lock bar door on the other, as well as several models and sizes of lock bar doored traps.

What I have found is that None have the ability to catch as the 14x17x32-38 powered guillotine doored traps have.

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#6266659 - 06/25/18 09:28 AM Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa]
Kirk De Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Working from ice is like having a boat to work from, but the boat does not tip or move and it covers the entire waterway. You can skip around everywhere and anywhere with ease and set any location you like.


I picture a trapper pulling a sled with dozens of snares and conibears. I can,t however see the practicality of pulling a sled any distance with the same number of set opportunities with cage traps. The practical aspects are just not there.

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