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#6276187 - 07/10/18 08:20 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: ringtailtrapper]
huntinhal Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 241
Loc: Ne
Originally Posted By: ringtailtrapper
Originally Posted By: huntinhal
OK guys,I have been contacted to be one of these guys they come to see.We are fighting an uphill battle here so we better unite and stick together one way or another.



So you want me to rub your belly when you roll over ?? No thank you. By unite do you mean agree with you, and discard my concerns ?? No thank you.

Good luck.


RTT.Really, RTT. I am asking everone to come together with a response not come up with some childish remarks. I can see you only want to argue. Part of the problem.

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#6276205 - 07/10/18 08:48 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
pcr2 Online   content
"Twerker"

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 11883
Loc: potter co. p.a.
i see it as less than 10 percent of the trapping community trying to push whats good for them on the other 90 percent or more.call me names and tell me why i'm wrong.i Do appreciate opinions different than mine.
_________________________

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#6276211 - 07/10/18 08:55 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
wallfur Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 507
Loc: idaho
Exactly who contacted you and what are they asking you to do?

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#6276236 - 07/10/18 09:38 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: huntinhal]
hippie Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 5384
Loc: pa
Originally Posted By: huntinhal
OK guys,I have been contacted to be one of these guys they come to see.We are fighting an uphill battle here so we better unite and stick together one way or another.


All i'll say is good luck and know/follow this by heart.

http://www.nationaltrappers.com/bmpcoyotewestern.pdf

More may depend on you than you realize..or maybe not, but be prepared and eyes wide open.

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#6276974 - 07/11/18 10:30 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 5042
Loc: mn north of blakely
Originally Posted By: gibb

US companies will not buy raccoon because of internal bans on using raccoon because of the video skinning them alive in China.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-sold-West.html



Traceability would help alleviate the fears by US manufacturers.

I hate to say it guys, it's coming and sooner than most would like to think and from my conversations the push isn't only coming from GOOS.

So it's either fight it tooth and nail and loose or get at the table and help draft it.


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#6276995 - 07/11/18 10:54 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
hippie Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 5384
Loc: pa
No ones worried about traceability, that can be done easy.

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#6277018 - 07/11/18 11:32 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
wallfur Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 507
Loc: idaho
c and T hasnt helped with ranch mink prices....even with C and T in place it will not increase prices.....to much ranch fur in the market place is the problem.....as far as CG advertizing goes,i think we are already meeting there demands with BMP with the laws that are in place......ride alongs will be a big mistake IMO


Edited by wallfur (07/11/18 11:38 AM)

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#6277025 - 07/11/18 11:47 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Armpit, ak
Steve it was raccoon dog going back to the Burlington coat factory fiasco. There are already U.S. labelling laws routinely ignored by Chinese manuacturers and American retailers. In the end American retailers want cheap Chinese manufactured products to sell and the ole switch a roo is are part of doing business with a country that has raccoon dog farms.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#6277362 - 07/11/18 09:26 PM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: MJM]
ringtailtrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 1082
Loc: Illinois
[/quote]
I can not see how signing a statement like this, is going to keep anyone from trapping or selling fur.

[/quote]



Mark, that is nothing more than a consignment contract. That document has nothing to do with certification in the manner that Boco was referring to. I will say that would deal with traceability, and would be no different than with the shipping tags via the auction houses. I agree that document would be no issue, because it has nothing to due with certification. The statement at the bottom is a no issue, the auction is just shifting liability way from itself back toward the shipper. The auction house does not want to be know as a business that partakes with Illegal activities.

RTt
_________________________
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums

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#6277429 - 07/11/18 10:37 PM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: Steven 49er]
ringtailtrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 1082
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Steven 49er
Originally Posted By: gibb

US companies will not buy raccoon because of internal bans on using raccoon because of the video skinning them alive in China.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-sold-West.html



Traceability would help alleviate the fears by US manufacturers.

I hate to say it guys, it's coming and sooner than most would like to think and from my conversations the push isn't only coming from GOOS.

So it's either fight it tooth and nail and loose or get at the table and help draft it.




This about control of not only product, but production as well, and that is were certification comes into play. I see a future of a limited number of only certified trappers that are able to market fur, that the end user may keep tabs upon, and if need be bring into compliance as they see fit, and if the trapper bulks at anytime, then they are out in the cold with no market. This would increase market share for those certified, but those not certified could be shut out altogether at some point. I guess the term "Free trapper" means nothing anymore.


Steven, if we fight this what makes you think we would lose ?? The traceability issue is just pure BS, because they have that already in place, and like I have pointed out most fur is graded into sections already, and all fur is shipped with names, addresses, License number, so do they want traceability ?? or certification with accountability ?? They want C&A, and traceability is the smoke screen. With certification they will limit our numbers, and with accountability they will crucify us with legal action.

Why does CG want a signed statement ?? Could it be that they are in some way protecting themselves ?? Does the average trapper have the ability to take on corporate lawyers if something goes south with those statements, and could trappers be found liable ?? Is that what trapping needs today, trappers taking on corporations in court on accountability issues ? Just where we need trapping issues, in the courts, brilliant. Great media headlines, and toss even more money into the coffers of groups like HSUS, and world wildlife fund. Free fundraiser for those groups !!


Maybe it should be trappers asking for accountability from end users like CG. There have been a good share of end users over the years get caught miss representing their products, and yet when they do it's trapping that ends up with the black eye. Why ???


I would advise any trapper looking to produce, and market fur in the future to oppose signing anything in regards to traceability, certification, or accountability.


RTT
_________________________
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums

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#6277435 - 07/11/18 10:50 PM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 5042
Loc: mn north of blakely
RTT, when the details are finally settled I may agree whole hearted with your last statement, until then I'm going to keep an open mind.

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#6277457 - 07/11/18 11:39 PM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 16279
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
You might as well sell your traps now if you believe all that crap.C+T is on track to be industry wide by 2020.
Long overdue too.


Edited by Boco (07/11/18 11:41 PM)

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#6277459 - 07/12/18 12:06 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
Woodsloafer72 Online   content
trapper

Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 637
Loc: Minnesota
If you want an example of how C+T helps an industry just look at farming. It killed the little guys.

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#6277537 - 07/12/18 06:42 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: Woodsloafer72]
tjm Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 7610
Loc: SWMo.
Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
If you want an example of how C+T helps an industry just look at farming. It killed the little guys.
yes but in trapping the little guys are doing it for fun and using outside money too support a "hobby".

Traceability is already in place and has been for many years, self-certification is in place when we sign our permits saying that we will follow all laws and regulations.

The problems with raccoon-dog and false advertising were nothing to do with trappers or hunters, it was retailers and marketing people blatantly lying, I guess all the opposition to fur in the USA can be laid on the marketing people maybe. And now those marketing types want to set trappers up as either whipping boys or scapegoats for any future bad press that comes from false advertising at the retail level.

It was mentioned above and passed over, does CG actually even buy coyotes? It was said that they actually buy ruffs already made up by some invisible to the consumer ruff supplier, who may or may not be the dresser/tanner; but breaks any tie between the trapper and the garment maker.
I have already self-certified with my permit and provided traceability at the buyers level and beyond the buyer, whether it be a country buyer or through an auction, after the initial sale I have no more to do with the fur nor any control over it.
Certification of the brokers and tanners and dressers and furriers and marketing liars is beyond my control, but if there is a problem with the public perception, it arises in those areas. Always it has been the retailers that have created the public perception, the retailers need to look at their own house first.

Open mind, Ok. Voluntary whipping boy for corporate advertising, I don't think so. But others have volunteered and more will in time.
This entire discussion is moot, the folks that are affected first and most have already made the contract. The precedent is in place. Boco is correct in that it is too late to prevent all this.

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#6277573 - 07/12/18 07:55 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
huntinhal Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 241
Loc: Ne
Just curious where our state and national guys stand on this. I trap 60 to 75 days a year by my self so its not like need someone along. If I decide I think its good for the trapping image I will do it , If not I wont.

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#6277607 - 07/12/18 08:44 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
tbn Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 4816
Loc: nunya,ks
It is the unpredictable stuff that happens that concerns me. I just hope the bozos they pick live in a perfect world.

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#6277624 - 07/12/18 09:05 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
Chamacat Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1450
Loc: New Mexico
Data Mining
_________________________
I can catch them here...I can catch them ANYWHERE

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#6277658 - 07/12/18 10:23 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: huntinhal]
tjm Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 7610
Loc: SWMo.
Originally Posted By: huntinhal
Just curious where our state and national guys stand on this. I trap 60 to 75 days a year by my self so its not like need someone along. If I decide I think its good for the trapping image I will do it , If not I wont.
here is what the National guy said; https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads....lit#Post6274064

But, how can you or I be sure what will happen to the video and pictures they take on the line after they edit them and or sell them or whatever? If these people want to learn about trapping, they can take a Trapper's Ed Course a lot quicker and cheaper. They could take instruction from any of several well known trappers. Only need to ride along is to document you. What you say, what you do, what you don't say or do. How many minutes the animal is in the trap before removal/dispatch? This might be of particular interest in some states with multi-day check times on foothold devices, maybe?

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#6277661 - 07/12/18 10:26 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: Boco]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Armpit, ak
Originally Posted By: Boco
You might as well sell your traps now if you believe all that crap.C+T is on track to be industry wide by 2020.
Long overdue too.


I remember when many Candians had to sell all their traps after their trapping leaders promised them higher prices. The only higher prices they saw was higher prices they paid for Canadian produced traps.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#6277665 - 07/12/18 10:32 AM Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 16279
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
BS.Why would we have to sell any traps,we can use more traps legally here than many states???


Edited by Boco (07/12/18 10:33 AM)

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