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Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: danny clifton] #6273018
07/05/18 07:53 AM
07/05/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 697
Jackson Co, KS
N
NEYotetrapper Offline
trapper
NEYotetrapper  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 697
Jackson Co, KS
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
went to cabela's in KC awhile back to get a bullet mold. I knew they had the one I wanted as I called first. while there I asked a whetstone. the only thing they had worth buying was overpriced worksharps and some diamond hones. they did have some of those junk man made abrasive stones whatever they are called. Not a single natural oil stone to be found. Couldn't find a butchers steel either. Had a lot of knives that would work as a weapon but very few an outdoors person would find useful. I still shop in cabela's but it aint the same business as when the only store was in west NE. Kinda like Walmart in 1985 when sam Walton ran it all and what it has morphed into today.


Going public killed Cabelas.

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: NEYotetrapper] #6273022
07/05/18 07:58 AM
07/05/18 07:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932
SEPA
That and selling the business to Bass Pro Shops.


Eh...wot?

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273033
07/05/18 08:27 AM
07/05/18 08:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,343
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper Offline
trapper
Jtrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,343
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Thanks Monster Toms, im sure your insight will be ignored and the mass's will continue off in what if's and pixie dust, lol.

I have long said NAFA fur grading is the worst on the planet and from your post that is what CG is having problems with as
well. But I really don't understand why they don't just attend western sales and buy what coyotes they want? They want to ride
along with a trapper just to see what all it takes to produce a pelt that's fine but I don't get why they want some piece of
paper signed when they buy pelts at your sale? I don't think it's for bad evil reason's like many here do after what you posted,
I just don't understand why they need that.


Not my circus, not my clowns.
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273061
07/05/18 09:25 AM
07/05/18 09:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,773
el vado, nm
T
Tom Fisher Offline
trapper
Tom Fisher  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,773
el vado, nm
I spent yesterday speaking to about 60 young people from several western states about the equipment and methods we use in New Mexico, that they meet the BMP standards. I would sign a paper stating that same fact to Canada Goose, my concern is not what the ARF's think it is how the public percieves how how fur is produced. If Canada Goose is going to attend a sale so will my coyotes!

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: Jtrapper] #6273083
07/05/18 09:57 AM
07/05/18 09:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,896
Oakland, MS
Drifter Offline
trapper
Drifter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,896
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted By: Jtrapper
Thanks Monster Toms, im sure your insight will be ignored and the mass's will continue off in what if's and pixie dust, lol.

I have long said NAFA fur grading is the worst on the planet and from your post that is what CG is having problems with as
well. But I really don't understand why they don't just attend western sales and buy what coyotes they want? They want to ride
along with a trapper just to see what all it takes to produce a pelt that's fine but I don't get why they want some piece of
paper signed when they buy pelts at your sale? I don't think it's for bad evil reason's like many here do after what you posted,
I just don't understand why they need that.


The reason is called appeasement. If you go to their page they say only fur caught using BMP. So if we are NOT fully using the BMP guidelines we will be blackballed?

Canada Gooose fur statement

The Canada Goose Fur Transparency Standard™ is our commitment to support the ethical, responsible and sustainable sourcing and use of real fur. The first traceability program to cover the wild habitat, it ensures that all fur sourced by Canada Goose is in accordance with the Agreement of International Humane Trapping Standards (AIHTS) in Canada and the Best Managed Practices (BMP) in the United States, and is fully traceable throughout the supply chain. The standard certifies that we never purchase fur from fur farms, never use fur from endangered animals, and only purchase fur from licensed North American trappers strictly regulated by state, provincial and federal standards. As of April 2017, all fur used in new Canada Goose products is fully traceable, and includes country of origin labelling.


Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.

Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic









Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273141
07/05/18 12:06 PM
07/05/18 12:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046
Homer, Alaska
S
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"
Spek Jones  Offline
"FATHER"
S

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,046
Homer, Alaska
I can appreciate what CG appears to be trying to accomplish, but I also think they are going about it the wrong way. It is a good thing IMO that they demonstrate a concern for the well fare of the resource via humane trapping methods and sustained use management, and that they want to convey that message to their customers and potential customers. It just seems to me that the way they are going about trying to accomplish that goal out of touch with the industry. They are garment manufactures and seem to be totally lacking in understanding about the fur industry.

Trappers and trapping associations, in both the USA and Canada, have been working together with State and Federal game biologist, game management agencies, scientist, veterinarians and basically all stake holders involved with the industry to develop and implement "Best Management Practices" for at least the last 40 years that I know of. Many millions of dollars have been invested and thousands upon thousands of hours spent towards improving tools and equipment and developing a balance of the most humane methods for the welfare of the animals while still allowing for the harvest of the resource in order to accomplish a sustained harvest via wise, realistic, game management practices. The things that have been learned through these studies have been incorporated into State and Provincial government trapping regulations. The importance of these practices are also being taught to trappers through out the industry via trapping schools made available to both new and experienced trappers through out North America. In short, it has been and still is an ongoing program that trapping industry as a whole is heavily invested in.

All this information is out there and available to CG. All they have to do is research it, write it up in a short professionally worded statement and make that statement available to their customers and consumers. It is a slap in the face of all trappers and Gov agencies that have invested so much time and money in this that CG does not recognize that effort and honor it. I suspect it is not a deliberate thing on their part but is being done more through ignorance than anything else. They don't have a clue about what all has went into getting to the point where we are today. The idea of going around to individual trappers and collecting statements for each individual fur item is pretty far fetched.

Neither Canada's AIHTS nor USA's BMP's are absolutely perfect systems. As with fur farming, the beef industry, fishing, hunting, or any other resource harvesting along those lines, there will always be instances where things did not go well or as planned. All we can do is keep striving to improve our methods and means while harvesting the resource and continue managing that resource on a sustained use basis.

It would be nice though to see CG and other clothing manufactures make use of the information that is already out there as a way to further educate the general public about the trapping industry's efforts to do things right through continued research, improved methods and continued sustained harvest management.

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: Spek Jones] #6273149
07/05/18 12:23 PM
07/05/18 12:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,235
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline
trapper
rpmartin  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,235
S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
I can appreciate what CG appears to be trying to accomplish, but I also think they are going about it the wrong way. It is a good thing IMO that they demonstrate a concern for the well fare of the resource via humane trapping methods and sustained use management, and that they want to convey that message to their customers and potential customers. It just seems to me that the way they are going about trying to accomplish that goal out of touch with the industry. They are garment manufactures and seem to be totally lacking in understanding about the fur industry.

Trappers and trapping associations, in both the USA and Canada, have been working together with State and Federal game biologist, game management agencies, scientist, veterinarians and basically all stake holders involved with the industry to develop and implement "Best Management Practices" for at least the last 40 years that I know of. Many millions of dollars have been invested and thousands upon thousands of hours spent towards improving tools and equipment and developing a balance of the most humane methods for the welfare of the animals while still allowing for the harvest of the resource in order to accomplish a sustained harvest via wise, realistic, game management practices. The things that have been learned through these studies have been incorporated into State and Provincial government trapping regulations. The importance of these practices are also being taught to trappers through out the industry via trapping schools made available to both new and experienced trappers through out North America. In short, it has been and still is an ongoing program that trapping industry as a whole is heavily invested in.

All this information is out there and available to CG. All they have to do is research it, write it up in a short professionally worded statement and make that statement available to their customers and consumers. It is a slap in the face of all trappers and Gov agencies that have invested so much time and money in this that CG does not recognize that effort and honor it. I suspect it is not a deliberate thing on their part but is being done more through ignorance than anything else. They don't have a clue about what all has went into getting to the point where we are today. The idea of going around to individual trappers and collecting statements for each individual fur item is pretty far fetched.

Neither Canada's AIHTS nor USA's BMP's are absolutely perfect systems. As with fur farming, the beef industry, fishing, hunting, or any other resource harvesting along those lines, there will always be instances where things did not go well or as planned. All we can do is keep striving to improve our methods and means while harvesting the resource and continue managing that resource on a sustained use basis.

It would be nice though to see CG and other clothing manufactures make use of the information that is already out there as a way to further educate the general public about the trapping industry's efforts to do things right through continued research, improved methods and continued sustained harvest management.


Very good post, I agree 100%


Life member,
NRA, NTA, RMEF, Pheasants Forever.
WTA,TTA,FTA,SA,GOA, member


Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: Spek Jones] #6273158
07/05/18 12:34 PM
07/05/18 12:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,657
Mountain View, AR
S
ShaneT Offline
trapper
ShaneT  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,657
Mountain View, AR
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
I can appreciate what CG appears to be trying to accomplish, but I also think they are going about it the wrong way. It is a good thing IMO that they demonstrate a concern for the well fare of the resource via humane trapping methods and sustained use management, and that they want to convey that message to their customers and potential customers. It just seems to me that the way they are going about trying to accomplish that goal out of touch with the industry. They are garment manufactures and seem to be totally lacking in understanding about the fur industry.

Trappers and trapping associations, in both the USA and Canada, have been working together with State and Federal game biologist, game management agencies, scientist, veterinarians and basically all stake holders involved with the industry to develop and implement "Best Management Practices" for at least the last 40 years that I know of. Many millions of dollars have been invested and thousands upon thousands of hours spent towards improving tools and equipment and developing a balance of the most humane methods for the welfare of the animals while still allowing for the harvest of the resource in order to accomplish a sustained harvest via wise, realistic, game management practices. The things that have been learned through these studies have been incorporated into State and Provincial government trapping regulations. The importance of these practices are also being taught to trappers through out the industry via trapping schools made available to both new and experienced trappers through out North America. In short, it has been and still is an ongoing program that trapping industry as a whole is heavily invested in.

All this information is out there and available to CG. All they have to do is research it, write it up in a short professionally worded statement and make that statement available to their customers and consumers. It is a slap in the face of all trappers and Gov agencies that have invested so much time and money in this that CG does not recognize that effort and honor it. I suspect it is not a deliberate thing on their part but is being done more through ignorance than anything else. They don't have a clue about what all has went into getting to the point where we are today. The idea of going around to individual trappers and collecting statements for each individual fur item is pretty far fetched.

Neither Canada's AIHTS nor USA's BMP's are absolutely perfect systems. As with fur farming, the beef industry, fishing, hunting, or any other resource harvesting along those lines, there will always be instances where things did not go well or as planned. All we can do is keep striving to improve our methods and means while harvesting the resource and continue managing that resource on a sustained use basis.

It would be nice though to see CG and other clothing manufactures make use of the information that is already out there as a way to further educate the general public about the trapping industry's efforts to do things right through continued research, improved methods and continued sustained harvest management.


Nice post!


"Good Lord, thank you for your endless bounty. Lord please give me the strength to gather what I need"
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: rpmartin] #6273159
07/05/18 12:35 PM
07/05/18 12:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 697
Jackson Co, KS
N
NEYotetrapper Offline
trapper
NEYotetrapper  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 697
Jackson Co, KS
Originally Posted By: rpmartin
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
I can appreciate what CG appears to be trying to accomplish, but I also think they are going about it the wrong way. It is a good thing IMO that they demonstrate a concern for the well fare of the resource via humane trapping methods and sustained use management, and that they want to convey that message to their customers and potential customers. It just seems to me that the way they are going about trying to accomplish that goal out of touch with the industry. They are garment manufactures and seem to be totally lacking in understanding about the fur industry.

Trappers and trapping associations, in both the USA and Canada, have been working together with State and Federal game biologist, game management agencies, scientist, veterinarians and basically all stake holders involved with the industry to develop and implement "Best Management Practices" for at least the last 40 years that I know of. Many millions of dollars have been invested and thousands upon thousands of hours spent towards improving tools and equipment and developing a balance of the most humane methods for the welfare of the animals while still allowing for the harvest of the resource in order to accomplish a sustained harvest via wise, realistic, game management practices. The things that have been learned through these studies have been incorporated into State and Provincial government trapping regulations. The importance of these practices are also being taught to trappers through out the industry via trapping schools made available to both new and experienced trappers through out North America. In short, it has been and still is an ongoing program that trapping industry as a whole is heavily invested in.

All this information is out there and available to CG. All they have to do is research it, write it up in a short professionally worded statement and make that statement available to their customers and consumers. It is a slap in the face of all trappers and Gov agencies that have invested so much time and money in this that CG does not recognize that effort and honor it. I suspect it is not a deliberate thing on their part but is being done more through ignorance than anything else. They don't have a clue about what all has went into getting to the point where we are today. The idea of going around to individual trappers and collecting statements for each individual fur item is pretty far fetched.

Neither Canada's AIHTS nor USA's BMP's are absolutely perfect systems. As with fur farming, the beef industry, fishing, hunting, or any other resource harvesting along those lines, there will always be instances where things did not go well or as planned. All we can do is keep striving to improve our methods and means while harvesting the resource and continue managing that resource on a sustained use basis.

It would be nice though to see CG and other clothing manufactures make use of the information that is already out there as a way to further educate the general public about the trapping industry's efforts to do things right through continued research, improved methods and continued sustained harvest management.


Very good post, I agree 100%


I agree another well thought out post.

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273188
07/05/18 01:22 PM
07/05/18 01:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,343
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper Offline
trapper
Jtrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,343
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Pete, appears from you posted from their website they're just laying to rest exactly where their fur comes from, it isn't ranch fur, isn't this or that, basically EVERY pelt produced in the U.S. is technically BMP approved! Granted a 'rat here and there in a beaver trap, etc. but over all the majority of animals are caught in traps set for them and the BMP's pretty much approved every trap we use.

I see all this as a formality more so than anything else. With that said the suspicion is well deserved because our past we have agreed to this or that and then as time goes by they come back with something else and something else to the point restriction's make it impossible to trap per how someone else feels we should.

In other words it's a slippery slope they're heading down. I doubt they fully understand that attempting to appease the people they're trying to appease won't work, they'll just dream up some other problem they have with their products and how they are produced.

EVERYONE on this thread im sure see's or worry's that is the case.


Not my circus, not my clowns.
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273209
07/05/18 01:46 PM
07/05/18 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
Yep

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273210
07/05/18 01:46 PM
07/05/18 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
Well, Boco doesn't. smile

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273250
07/05/18 02:39 PM
07/05/18 02:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,896
Oakland, MS
Drifter Offline
trapper
Drifter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,896
Oakland, MS
Snares are NOT approved by BMP or AIHTS nor are my modified traps that we both know are better Jackie.


Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.

Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic









Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273267
07/05/18 03:00 PM
07/05/18 03:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,550
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,550
Rodney,Ohio
There is a discussion on one of the Facebook groups where certain people are claiming that the BMP part will be changed to in accordance with state if that were true, why would they even bother with this push?

As to the snares, 3/32 And 1/8 snares 42-60 inches are Eastern coyote BMP approved.

Last edited by SNIPERBBB; 07/05/18 03:05 PM.
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: SNIPERBBB] #6273304
07/05/18 03:58 PM
07/05/18 03:58 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,512
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,512
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted By: SNIPERBBB

As to the snares, 3/32 And 1/8 snares 42-60 inches are Eastern coyote BMP approved.


But not Western coyotes, which is what this appears to be about.

Jackie.... you do know that the 1.5 coil spring (Duke, Bridger, Victor, etc) is not approved for coon, right? That is hands down the most used coon trap in America... and not BMP approved.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273308
07/05/18 04:05 PM
07/05/18 04:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
I don't know about your BMP agreement(I believe it is near the same),but under the AIHTS,snares are approved under the "home made device" derogation,and as such are regulated under the competent authorities(provincial wildlife managers) that are the signatorys to the agreement.
In other words if the provincial regs are followed it is good for the AIHTS.
Just as fox and mink are not listed species,they also fall under the regulation of the competent authority,and as such are good under the AIHTS.
And to repeat Ad-nauseum,it is not about appeasement of the antis,it is about providing certification and traceability to the public.C+T is one of the most powerful weapons to fight and refute the anti lies about fur harvesting in the public forum.
C+T go together,because in order for fur to be certified it has to be traceable thru the entire chain from producer to end user.

Last edited by Boco; 07/05/18 04:10 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273313
07/05/18 04:22 PM
07/05/18 04:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,550
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,550
Rodney,Ohio
It's a glorified marketing campaign is what it boils down to. They'd probably have the same or better results saying they only use free range, organic furs. Any person that has a trace of being a skeptic can see what it is.

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273332
07/05/18 05:16 PM
07/05/18 05:16 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,445
idaho
W
wallfur Offline
trapper
wallfur  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,445
idaho
consumer smoke screen for a short lived fashion trend.

Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: yotetrapper30] #6273378
07/05/18 06:35 PM
07/05/18 06:35 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,707
The great cage state Colorado
M
Monster Toms Offline
trapper
Monster Toms  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,707
The great cage state Colorado
The only documentation that I know about that CG is asking of the western auctions, Signing your name stating "these pelts were harvested legally by state law". Thats it, nothing else, Lot of pot stirring going on here that doesn't need to happen. CG believes in "truth in advertising" they can only be as truthful as the information passed on to them. Doesn't matter how a coyote is harvested as long as you say it was legal.






Re: Canada Goose Accountability [Re: Monster Toms] #6273382
07/05/18 06:38 PM
07/05/18 06:38 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,512
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,512
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted By: Monster Toms
The only documentation that I know about that CG is asking of the western auctions, Signing your name stating "these pelts were harvested legally by state law". Thats it, nothing else, Lot of pot stirring going on here that doesn't need to happen. CG believes in "truth in advertising" they can only be as truthful as the information passed on to them. Doesn't matter how a coyote is harvested as long as you say it was legal.


If that's the case, I agree I wouldn't see any problem with it. But that's entirely different than what the NTA president said.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
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