Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6273425
07/05/18 07:19 PM
07/05/18 07:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148 Illinois
ringtailtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148
Illinois
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The only documentation that I know about that CG is asking of the western auctions, Signing your name stating "these pelts were harvested legally by state law". Thats it, nothing else, Lot of pot stirring going on here that doesn't need to happen. CG believes in "truth in advertising" they can only be as truthful as the information passed on to them. Doesn't matter how a coyote is harvested as long as you say it was legal. If that's the case, I agree I wouldn't see any problem with it. But that's entirely different than what the NTA president said. A statement of harvested legally is far different than traceability, so what do they want ?? They already have the traceability via the auction houses, they can tell who furs are in what lots already, and from where they were shipped. The certification is the real problem. Put a few trappers on a pedestal, and give them a title, and see how quick they toss their fellow trapper under the bus. You wont be able to sell a pelt unless your in the click, that is what these clowns are looking to do, heck Boco said it himself, this is a marketing play. A marketing play with a way to control the whole enchilada. They want to have every trapper certified, this will certainly limit the number of trappers, thus easier to control. Kind of like what happen to the farmers in the 80's
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: Boco]
#6273432
07/05/18 07:23 PM
07/05/18 07:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148 Illinois
ringtailtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148
Illinois
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No it is good in many ways,and unfortunately for fossils like you it is coming anyway,and not just coyotes. The devil with certification, just look at what Boco said, they want this for all species. These clowns have an agenda, and that is market control for a few, and we know who the few would be. Fine trappers they are tossing their fellow trappers out in the cold. Darn Communist!!! RTT
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: Boco]
#6273439
07/05/18 07:34 PM
07/05/18 07:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,674 OK
Aaron Proffitt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,674
OK
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They wont have to do that here,we have been harvesting with Traps that comply to the international certified humane standards for 20 years or so.We were the first country to do so ... Must be very proud . Some countries are the first to put a man on the moon . Other countries...
Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6273450
07/05/18 07:53 PM
07/05/18 07:53 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,577 Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,577
Oakland, MS
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So Monstertoms, do you know anything about these ride-alongs on people's trap lines that Chris was talking about then?
~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6273455
07/05/18 08:02 PM
07/05/18 08:02 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,708 The great cage state Colorado
Monster Toms
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,708
The great cage state Colorado
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Yes I explained it earlier. Most of CG's people are foreigners, the ride alongs are more to educate them as to what it takes to harvest coyotes and the processes from the harvester side. No judgments, no contention, just education for their people. Just like them sending folks to the different state sales to get an education on how things happen. They are enthralled with Colorado due to the diversity in fur that we offer, along with the ability to handle all types of fur from all over the country. If we treated them the way most of the posters here feel, It would be an interesting state of affairs.
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: Monster Toms]
#6273468
07/05/18 08:14 PM
07/05/18 08:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148 Illinois
ringtailtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148
Illinois
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Yes I explained it earlier. Most of CG's people are foreigners, the ride alongs are more to educate them as to what it takes to harvest coyotes and the processes from the harvester side. No judgments, no contention, just education for their people. Just like them sending folks to the different state sales to get an education on how things happen. They are enthralled with Colorado due to the diversity in fur that we offer, along with the ability to handle all types of fur from all over the country. If we treated them the way most of the posters here feel, It would be an interesting state of affairs.
let coyotes go out of fashion, and then see how enthralled they are. RTT
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6273475
07/05/18 08:20 PM
07/05/18 08:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,487 Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,487
Nebraska
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So Monstertoms, do you know anything about these ride-alongs on people's trap lines that Chris was talking about then? I seen a post made prior to the western convention in MT this year looking for trappers that would be willing to let a CG rep. ride along with them. A spokesman from CG was supposedly going to be at the convention to answer any questions. I don't remember where I seen the post or if this even transpired at the western convention but maybe someone from MT can provide some insight.
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: Marty B]
#6273867
07/06/18 12:26 PM
07/06/18 12:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,184 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,184
Armpit, ak
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You can certify anything anything. One of the dirtiest bycatch fisheries in Alaska. I'm not sure the bycatch thrown overboard dead is sustainable? Canada Goose was marketing their coats as using only fur from "Certified Canadian Trappers" years ago. Seems to be a company willing to lie to sell product, so might not be any standards, just a lot of paper full of lies.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: Dirt]
#6273925
07/06/18 02:08 PM
07/06/18 02:08 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,708 The great cage state Colorado
Monster Toms
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,708
The great cage state Colorado
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You can certify anything anything. One of the dirtiest bycatch fisheries in Alaska. I'm not sure the bycatch thrown overboard dead is sustainable? Canada Goose was marketing their coats as using only fur from "Certified Canadian Trappers" years ago. Seems to be a company willing to lie to sell product, so might not be any standards, just a lot of paper full of lies. Back then CG was only buying from NAFA/FHA and were un-aware that the lots contained coyotes from all over. They made an assumption that since they were purchased in Canada that they were Canadian coyotes. This in turn is what began the ball rolling for this accountability so that they can advirtise truthfully.
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6273935
07/06/18 02:31 PM
07/06/18 02:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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I find it hard to believe buisnessmen were unaware an internatiol buisnesss dealt with more than one country
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6273985
07/06/18 04:56 PM
07/06/18 04:56 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,472 mn north of blakely
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,472
mn north of blakely
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Danny, if you ever go to an international fur auction and talk to the buyers and manufacturers that attend one thing you find out is they don't know much other than what they intend to do with the skins they bought.
Well guys(and gals) I've been vocally leery about traceability since NAFA started to "push" it but after long consideration and talking to some pretty big players in the industry I've come to the conclusion we need to take a serious look at it and quite possibly embrace it.
I understand the trepidation that comes along with it but lets explore the flip side. Lets start with CG. Yes I said in an earlier post that CG isnt the only user of coyote but lets ask ourselves, where would the coyote market be with out CG, at what levels and what quantities? Where would the fur trade be without CG today, and yes I mean the whole trade. Think about it a little bit and not only of the trapper but where would the buyers and brokers be without the margins generated by the coyote trade.
Next maybe most of us don't/didnt' realize that CG produces more coats without fur trim than with. How come? My sources are telling me that can't and wont get enough coyote to meet demand. I've been told they are looking at other articles of wild fur but probably won't use it without traceablility. IF CG said we will take 250,000 trim quality raccoon but only if they come with traceability to ensure that there isn't any finncoon are we going to tell them to fly a kite?
To be so flippant to suggest we tell them to pound sand is nuts. We all should assess our paradigms in life on a regular basis and I'm am thinking more and more that traceability is coming whether we like it or not. The cattle producers are starting to do it, pork producers, fish producers, chicken, turkey, eggs and the list goes on and on.
I don't know what the answer is but I do know without a viable fur market trapping as most of us enjoy it is dead. I'm a fur trapper, always will be.
That should spur the debate, fire away.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6273990
07/06/18 05:09 PM
07/06/18 05:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719 pa
hippie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
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It's not "flippant" to tell them to pound sand if, as it appeared before Monster Toms straightened out what they want, was the way it was headed. I won't chance allowing one company that may not be here ten years from now even suggesting law cahnges. It sure looked that way at first on this post.
I think it would be "flippant" to allow something like that to happen. We have our state agencies working with our trapping assn's keeping things on the up-and-up so we don't need what appeared to be an outside, no idea what we do company telling us. IMO of course.
(like i said a couple years ago when this first came up, all our laws and methods are easily found on line for them to either accept or deny our goods.)
Last edited by hippie; 07/06/18 05:11 PM.
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: Steven 49er]
#6274009
07/06/18 06:20 PM
07/06/18 06:20 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447 idaho
wallfur
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447
idaho
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Danny, if you ever go to an international fur auction and talk to the buyers and manufacturers that attend one thing you find out is they don't know much other than what they intend to do with the skins they bought.
Well guys(and gals) I've been vocally leery about traceability since NAFA started to "push" it but after long consideration and talking to some pretty big players in the industry I've come to the conclusion we need to take a serious look at it and quite possibly embrace it.
I understand the trepidation that comes along with it but lets explore the flip side. Lets start with CG. Yes I said in an earlier post that CG isnt the only user of coyote but lets ask ourselves, where would the coyote market be with out CG, at what levels and what quantities? Where would the fur trade be without CG today, and yes I mean the whole trade. Think about it a little bit and not only of the trapper but where would the buyers and brokers be without the margins generated by the coyote trade.
Next maybe most of us don't/didnt' realize that CG produces more coats without fur trim than with. How come? My sources are telling me that can't and wont get enough coyote to meet demand. I've been told they are looking at other articles of wild fur but probably won't use it without traceablility. IF CG said we will take 250,000 trim quality raccoon but only if they come with traceability to ensure that there isn't any finncoon are we going to tell them to fly a kite?
To be so flippant to suggest we tell them to pound sand is nuts. We all should assess our paradigms in life on a regular basis and I'm am thinking more and more that traceability is coming whether we like it or not. The cattle producers are starting to do it, pork producers, fish producers, chicken, turkey, eggs and the list goes on and on.
I don't know what the answer is but I do know without a viable fur market trapping as most of us enjoy it is dead. I'm a fur trapper, always will be.
That should spur the debate, fire away. .....I don't thinking telling them to pound sand is the answer. but what they are asking is already in place with the laws that are on the books. that should be enough, we already have BMp in place. that should be more than enough for honest advertising! if what monster toms claims that's all they want we are already doing that, change the wording from Canadian to north American and there good to go.....people that are clueless about trapping don't need to be riding along on the trapline. ,IMO and as for cattlemen go its hurting them more than doing any good.....countries that are not compling are selling more beef than we are because of C AND T!
Last edited by wallfur; 07/06/18 06:55 PM.
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Re: Canada Goose Accountability
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#6274023
07/06/18 06:47 PM
07/06/18 06:47 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447 idaho
wallfur
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447
idaho
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anytime you advertise humane methods used for harvest, to the general public to hear that,an animal died regardless of method, (as does our food sources)to them hearing that will turn more away from buying than talked into buying. humane or not that animal died. the only difference in fur and food is everyone needs food, not the case with fur.i don't remember who posted early but said to advertise we only use free range organic fur.....true story leave it at that! CG will never appease the general public with there approach... fashion changes quickly and so will GC when it gone... leaving the trappers to sort out the mess!....you want to sell fur= buy or get some "BIG NAME" endorsements!!!
Last edited by wallfur; 07/06/18 07:14 PM.
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