no they don't! most U.S.A trappers don't use those types of traps unless they are forced to and ok what average? on which specie? all my central cats are still setting there. less than 50 so I am glad they held them rather than fire sale them. my western coyotes I had there averaged 37 dollars, but that was more than they were worth, semi heavy and shot up and rubbed junk and had less than 75 of them there. thats about all I had there in numbers. and a few odds and ends.

This should be another nightmare for Fur Buyers. Just the amt. of book keeping alone will choke a Horse. Will each trapper that sells to me have to fill out a certification paper? If they do, then each trappers fur will have to be held separate from other tappers fur. This alone will be a night mare. I can see where trappers will just fill these papers out and in a lot of circumstances will lie about what the have did, to make that fur get certified. I do know one thing about the public and that is, they don't mind telling a lie, so as to get ro sell their fur. This thing will end up being a boondoggle for buyers. I already have a mound of paper work in the ginseng Business. I really need to have to fill out and handle more paper work. Glad my years of doing any manner of business is coming to an end. Things are getting out of hand in this day and age.
This whole certification process started back in either the late 70s or early eighties. The Europeans told all fur producing countries that in either 10 or 20 years, all traps will have to pass a test to get a BMP certification for each state or the whole U.S will have to comply with BMP rules to sell fur in Europe. this is the way things are getting done to satisfy the Europeans.

very true Don I agree!

Here's what FACE-EU (http://www.face.eu/international-agreements/aihts/) states about the AIHTS implementation schedule:


And here's Canada's 2013 Phase 2 certified trap list (below). When you compare this list with the current list for coyotes, they've added 6 traps in 5 years, three of which were either Soft Catch or rubber-jawed traps. Footholds for coyotes are "added all the time" at a rate of 1.2 traps per year.

But the claim that "traps are added all the time" is misleading no matter how you define "all the time". Many of these additions are simply adding 4-coiled versions of the exact same model. So if you lump the 4-coiled with the 2-coiled of the same model, and start with the 2010 listing, Canada has at best only certified 8 foothold traps for coyotes since 2010 (3 traps were already in the 2010 listing). So basically Canada has newly certified only 3 new trap models for coyotes in the past 8 years if you lump the 2- and 4-coil versions of the same model together.

I'll wait to respond to Boco's usual rejoinder which blames manufacturers for this.

kinda saw this with sang already haven't we Don??

Boco-do you think certification will impact new trapper recruitment in a negative way????

Boco-do you think certification will impact new trapper recruitment in a negative way???? [/quote]

I think it’s gonna effect all trappers in a negative way. New or old. Trappers get set in their ways, and generally don’t like change.

We live in a whole different society now with weird agendas. I don't see the strength in numbers for future trappers.

Trappers have no strength in numbers. Back to the beaver market. It sure would help if registered Canadian trappers were not required to harvest beaver and then dump them on the auctions when they can't sell them.

Obviously it takes time to test the traps,and a big demand for footholds here does not exist,so some traps may not get put forward by US companys if their main market is the USA.And don't forget,some traps do not pass the accepted standard of humaneness regardless.Dont forget that is a list of traps tested and certified,not mandatory.After a trap is tested and put on the list there is years before it becomes mandatory.

If you look at the lists of killing traps,which is the traps of choice for northern trappers,there are traps being added from germany and Russia,who now have their own trap testing facilities like Canada.So if there is a demand for new traps in those countries there will be more traps on the list.
Personally I don't need 30 different traps to harvest a species.
I am glad we follow the accepted industry humane standards here as we can easily get all our fur certified,without having to jump thru hoops or become liars like you guys are talking about.

Jim Gibb is on the FIC board for the TRDC,he can explain the nuts and bolts of the agreement to you,if you are really interested how it works.
I doubt if he will respond if your just looking to continue a p---sing match though.

In no way does the AIHTS hinder trappers here.Per capita trappers in Canada produce a lot more fur than in the US.We have about 1/10 the amount of trappers but if you compare species which are present in numbers on both sides of the border we produce around half the harvest.

So any argument that says the aihts has hindered trappers here doesn't hold water,on the contrary,we now have a lot better traps available thanks to the improvements thru the trap testing program-which by the way was started in 1982 by the OTA and the FIC,which was at least a decade before the agreement was signed to use better traps.

And Dirt,no one forces anyone here to market beaver.Just because an animal has no fur value(plenty of value in a beaver to a trapper besides fur,lol) doesn't mean that you don't need to manage its numbers to keep the line healthy and protect your investment(registered line).

PRC,I think it already is negative for you guys the way you see it as some kind of conspiracy to stop you from trapping.I find that strange as it can do nothing but improve the industry(and the image of the industry),especially for the people that wear our product here in North America.Its interesting to see the guys out west that have the good fur that's in demand don't see it as a big deal,that is how we look at things here.We like to work with the people that are moving forward with positive change to improve and modernize the industry.

Well when the fha magazine excuses Canadian trappers for shipping them beaver they are required to harvest at loss or for poor returns nobody is being forced to trap beaver .

Dirt,That is likely spin they use to excuse themselves for selling beaver too cheap perhaps.It is likely more about nuisance beaver being pelted by trappers who have already been paid to remove them.Beaver need managed on the landscape,both in the bush and near civilization.
No one is forced to pelt and put up no value fur.Any no value fur shipped to the auction needs to go on the burn pile,that would help curtail the double dipping.

Boco, i don't understand your arguement that you have it better than we do, at all.
You say you can use anything you always did, then turn around and say you don't use footholds for coyotes, so the rubber jaw/lam'd jaws don't affect you. Well they do effect some of your countrymen!

Another of your counrtymen stated he can't use snares. Like i said before, careful what you wish for because you might be in his shoes soon if these people decide restraints are better than snares.

When someone brings up a law or trap you can't use that we can, you blow it off by saying i don't use that trap here because the grounds frozen. What about the folks just alittle south of you? They have to live by the sames laws you do and i bet they wish they could use things that are now outlawed.

We could claim, as you do that we haven't lost anything if we pick and choose what state/provance law we want like you do.

Want the most humane, go to cages Boco. You don't know what the end game might be if you allow some company to dictate what method you use.

No disrespect, but you come off as..........I'm not worried about the guys in Canada to my south, i can't use those traps anyway so i'm ok with them being banned here. i can use my snares, watertraps and bodygrips, i don't care if they lose their footholds.

Not true,we have tons of footholds to use here.I can only speak to my own experience and the fact is I use the same tools I used 35 years ago on the trapline,albeit with upgraded improvements thanks to aihts.And you can thank the bmp's for tool improvement too.

And cages are not any more humane or less than any other trap.leave an animal in a cage in the heat on an extended check and see if you still think cages are humane.-You guys are funny.

And hippie,there are states where you cant use any footholds at all,so yes we are way better off here than you are.How many states have blanket prohibitions on snares?Only in the heavily populated south of Ontario is snaring restricted to cable restraint snares,which makes sense,as does restrictions on large conis set on land.

I don't know of any trappers here that are hindered from trapping like you guys south of the border.

And when I explain in plain English how things are done here,you start calling names-very mature.

Who here cares a lick what you do down there?If you are curious and want information about how things are done here,I try to convey it in the most direct language possible.

You seem to be the ones that are always saying how we are hindered from trapping thru regulations here when in fact it seems to be the exact opposite.

Last year I took the time to document a season on my lines.They were short lines and I had the time to do it, and I enjoyed doing it as an info session on how we trap here,and try to answer any and all questions.
I don't see why people think that showing or promoting the way we manage fur here is somehow putting down the way others in different places trap.
I don't get that.


I think I am about done with this repetative banter.

I probably sound like a broken record,lol.

Any questions on fur sewing,the other part of the industry?

Boco- What's the name of the thread about your lines last season? I must have missed it. Might be fun to look at it now in the heat of summer.

Its on trapping only not sure what page now.

Is this it? Many posts; lots of pictures!

A few pics from the northern line.- https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6041493/1