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#6277416 - 07/11/18 10:17 PM Did you ever wonder?
trapperkeck Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 6843
Loc: St. Cloud, MN
If, when you apply for a job, why do they ask for your ethnic background, age and sex, if they do not discriminate?
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#6277418 - 07/11/18 10:20 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
rpmartin Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/03/14
Posts: 712
Loc: S/W Wisconsin
Good point, no I haven't given it much thought till now.
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#6277426 - 07/11/18 10:34 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
DelawareRob Online   happy
trapper

Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 1853
Loc: Middle of Delaware


https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm


The EEOC collects workforce data from employers with more than 100 employees (lower thresholds apply to federal contractors). Employers meeting the reporting thresholds have a legal obligation to provide the data; it is not voluntary. The data is collected using the reports below and is used for a variety of purposes including enforcement, self-assessment by employers, and research. Each of the reports collects data about gender and race/ethnicity by some type of job grouping. This information is shared with other authorized federal agencies in order to avoid duplicate collection of data and reduce the burden placed on employers. Although the data is confidential, aggregated data is available to the public.
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#6277491 - 07/12/18 05:05 AM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
Michigan Trappin Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 3916
Loc: Southwest Michigan
So why not enter the data AFTER people are hired, then the claims of age/race/sex discrimination would be a little less likely. As I realize you can look at someone and still guess what they are. Just seems wrong to ask it on the application, should be on forms for those hired, if it is for statistics of who's working at a company
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#6277492 - 07/12/18 05:08 AM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 11938
Loc: potter co. p.a.
seems everybody is throwin rocks and living in glass houses anymore.
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#6277512 - 07/12/18 05:45 AM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: Michigan Trappin]
DelawareRob Online   happy
trapper

Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 1853
Loc: Middle of Delaware
Originally Posted By: Michigan Trappin
So why not enter the data AFTER people are hired, then the claims of age/race/sex discrimination would be a little less likely. As I realize you can look at someone and still guess what they are. Just seems wrong to ask it on the application, should be on forms for those hired, if it is for statistics of who's working at a company


I believe they do it before so they can determine how diverse the application pool is.
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#6277557 - 07/12/18 07:23 AM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
Gary Benson Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5504
Loc: Sandhills Nebraska
Affirmative Action.......employers are required to hire a certain % from each ethnicity.....not the most qualified. Anything else is racist!!!!
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#6277582 - 07/12/18 08:06 AM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: Gary Benson]
DelawareRob Online   happy
trapper

Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 1853
Loc: Middle of Delaware
Originally Posted By: Gary Benson
Affirmative Action.......employers are required to hire a certain % from each ethnicity.....not the most qualified. Anything else is racist!!!!


Not true. Employers are encouraged to have a diverse group of qualified applicants. They are required to give equal opportunities of employment to applicants that are qualified. They are not required to hire a certain percentage of any race or ethnicity.



Affirmative action programs are governed by a number of overlapping laws. A common principle is that whether for admissions or employment, affirmative action programs such as targeted recruitment and goals are encouraged to remedy past effects of discrimination; quotas are disfavored. Affirmative action in American employment law has evolved through a series of governmental proclamations, court decrees, and voluntary programs instigated by employers in the private sector. Private employers who receive no public funding are not required to adopt affirmative action policies. Affirmative action policies are enforced by the entities adopting them if they are voluntary, while affirmative action policies required by government mandates can be enforced through the legal system.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/affirmative-action/



Edited by DelawareRob (07/12/18 08:18 AM)
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#6277739 - 07/12/18 01:02 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
KeithC Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2859
Loc: Champaign County, Ohio.
Affirmative action is a bad idea. It creates hate in the qualified people that are being passed over to hire the less qualified people. It creates a sense of entitlement in the less qualified people. It casts a shadow of incompetence on qualified minorities that get a job on their own merits. It puts people in jobs they are not as competent at doing as well as the people passed over. It sometimes puts people in jobs where they can sometimes cause grave harm to others.

When my father was getting his PHD in Chemistry he taught chemistry to medical students. He had 1 black student who failed the class, he was teaching, which would result in that student being expelled from medical school. My father was told by the head of the department to pass that black student anyway, because they wanted to graduate more black doctors. My father refused and told the head, that he could not in good conscience pass the black student who failed, because the student may make a mistake and later harm or kill patients. The head passed the student anyway and a few years after graduating the now black doctor lost his license for Malpractice after killing 3 patients, through his incompetence.

Affirmative action is racism and is harmful to society. It should be illegal.

Keith

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#6277745 - 07/12/18 01:12 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: DelawareRob]
Osky Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 5575
Loc: Northern MN
Originally Posted By: DelawareRob
Originally Posted By: Gary Benson
Affirmative Action.......employers are required to hire a certain % from each ethnicity.....not the most qualified. Anything else is racist!!!!


Not true. Employers are encouraged to have a diverse group of qualified applicants. They are required to give equal opportunities of employment to applicants that are qualified. They are not required to hire a certain percentage of any race or ethnicity.



Affirmative action programs are governed by a number of overlapping laws. A common principle is that whether for admissions or employment, affirmative action programs such as targeted recruitment and goals are encouraged to remedy past effects of discrimination; quotas are disfavored. Affirmative action in American employment law has evolved through a series of governmental proclamations, court decrees, and voluntary programs instigated by employers in the private sector. Private employers who receive no public funding are not required to adopt affirmative action policies. Affirmative action policies are enforced by the entities adopting them if they are voluntary, while affirmative action policies required by government mandates can be enforced through the legal system.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/affirmative-action/




Rob that is not entirely true. If you are on certain jobs as a contractor or sub contractor you are required to have a percentage of minority workers. Your not encouraged to have them, you are required to have them or else.

Osky
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#6277752 - 07/12/18 01:25 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: KeithC]
Trapper7 Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 5793
Loc: MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted By: KeithC
Affirmative action is a bad idea. It creates hate in the qualified people that are being passed over to hire the less qualified people. It creates a sense of entitlement in the less qualified people. It casts a shadow of incompetence on qualified minorities that get a job on their own merits. It puts people in jobs they are not as competent at doing as well as the people passed over. It sometimes puts people in jobs where they can sometimes cause grave harm to others.

When my father was getting his PHD in Chemistry he taught chemistry to medical students. He had 1 black student who failed the class, he was taking, which would result in that student being expelled from medical school. My father was told by the head of the department to pass that black student anyway, because they wanted to graduate more black doctors. My father refused and told the head, that he could not in good conscience pass the black student who failed, because the student may make a mistake and later harm or kill patients. The head passed the student anyway and a few years after graduating the now black doctor lost his license for Malpractice after killing 3 patients, through his incompetence.

Affirmative action is racism and is harmful to society. It should be illegal.

Keith


Keith, you are absolutely correct in what you have said.

My nephew went through training to become a state trooper. In a class of close to 80, he finished 6th. He was dropped down to the 20s because he was a white male with no military service. He took odd jobs bidding his time and waiting for a call for almost 3 years. Since he was married, he couldn't afford to wait any longer. He now drives a forklift in a warehouse loading trucks.
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#6277758 - 07/12/18 01:33 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
DelawareRob Online   happy
trapper

Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 1853
Loc: Middle of Delaware
Thanks for the clarification Osky,I looked a little closer and saw that. I donít hire or work with federal contractors of subcontractors. I did see that of all places, California banned affirmative action in their state.

Racism should not be tolerated at all in the work force. I did see wording somewhere that was to the effect of. Racism and discrimination based on sex, age, race, religion, or sexual orientation wonít be tolerated, unless you are giving special treatment to minorities and women.
So certain people are treated more equally I guess.
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#6277785 - 07/12/18 02:59 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: Trapper7]
Dr.Wolfenstein Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/01/17
Posts: 33
Loc: Michigan
Same thing happened to me.Thirty years ago,I was in college under a special program for conservation officer.I was scored very high on the entrance exam and was put on a list.My professor took me aside and told me to persure another path.The program wasn't for me as I'm not the target audience.Your the wrong color,his words.

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#6277819 - 07/12/18 04:30 PM Re: Did you ever wonder? [Re: trapperkeck]
BigBob Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 14329
Loc: St. Louis Co, Mo
Tax incentives to hire certain minority's etc.
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