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Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284244
07/22/18 02:20 AM
07/22/18 02:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,628
evansville Indiana age72
don Wolf Offline
trapper
don Wolf  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,628
evansville Indiana age72
I think people that might be sick from being an alcoholic, may need some free help also. Probably a lot more alcohol related addicts than Heroin addicts. I have seen a lot more alcohol dependence than I have Heroin or Crank or Cocaine in my life.

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284261
07/22/18 05:53 AM
07/22/18 05:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,668
OK
Aaron Proffitt Offline
trapper
Aaron Proffitt  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,668
OK
Alcohol is one of the very few drugs where quitting cold turkey after a long period of heavy addiction can prove fatal.


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284275
07/22/18 06:49 AM
07/22/18 06:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Yes really Ang. If an addict decides to get sober, giving some rehab aid makes sense. Forcing them to get sober through incarceration doesn't work. First off there is that whole profit thing. They manage to get high in prison also. At least occasionally.

Coming into Lansing on hwy 7 from KC you will see a big billboard advertising for correctional officers. Starting pay is 15 an hour. 25 miles S. W. at Edgerton is an intermodal where warehouse people are being started at 18-20. More signs. Wonder who is bringing drugs into our prisons?

Meanwhile in spite of all the tax dollars, the addict gets released and two hours later he is high again. So he fails the urine test his P.O. gives him and goes back to prison. Eventually all his time is served and he is just released unsupervised. COMPLETE waste of tax dollars.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: Aaron Proffitt] #6284280
07/22/18 07:04 AM
07/22/18 07:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,468
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,468
Iowa
Originally Posted By: Aaron Proffitt
Alcohol is one of the very few drugs where quitting cold turkey after a long period of heavy addiction can prove fatal.


I didn't know this - how so?

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: trapdog1] #6284305
07/22/18 07:51 AM
07/22/18 07:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
In addition to general withdrawal symptoms, alcohol withdrawal symptoms can include: heart palpitations, hallucinations, seizures and delirium tremens (DT's). The seizures and the DT's can be fatal.

Withdrawal from benzodiazepine drugs like Xanax and Valium can also be fatal.


Eh...wot?

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284306
07/22/18 07:52 AM
07/22/18 07:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
trapdog, treatment for alcohol withdrawal is often ethanol introduced intravenously. cold turkey can shut down organs


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284311
07/22/18 08:03 AM
07/22/18 08:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,472
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline
trapper
west river rogue  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,472
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
lol,,great..pump them full of gasoline!!! cry

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: Law Dog] #6284340
07/22/18 08:54 AM
07/22/18 08:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,056
Morehead city NC
JakeDog Offline
trapper
JakeDog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,056
Morehead city NC
Originally Posted By: Law Dog
Originally Posted By: FlyinFinn
This brings up another point I have been thinking about. Doctor licensing and the oath they take to treat anyone and everyone regardless of the ability or notion to pay the bill. So, because of their ethical conviction, the cost of the deadbeats is spread out to others. As far as I know, this is a fact. So, why do we as a government mandate the doctors obtain licensing, and demand that they have this oath of ethics? I could care less about the doctors ethics. I would like to pay for the services rendered to me, and if his ethics demand that be treat others for free, the charity can come from his.own heart and wallet.


You will be stabilized and then be moved to a welfare (State run or contracted hospital) never seen dead bodies outside of a hospital in all my years! LOL Oh the drama the mind can create!

The one I dealt with last night was given outstanding treatment and better care then I have ever received with no cost spared that including a expense transfer for better free care that they will never ever pay for.


Or the one you narcan and save, then they walk out of the ER AMA just to be found in the parking lot face down. NARCAN wears off before the opiates do! lol - opiates stores and released out the liver got him.

There aren't any answers I don't think cause society isn't going to let people die or turn them away from care. if I am called they get treated --

Only answer I can think of is we start executing drug dealers, that would put a hamper on it, not end it but you would see it curbed! China does this, why cant we? oh yeah because we are a society that grew up on disney movies, and emotions, we have this crazy belief that the world can live in peace and harmony, love your fellow human type stuff. As a society we have grown way soft, liberalism progressive whatever -- to a point we hand out free needles to drug addicts - -

Last edited by JakeDog; 07/22/18 08:57 AM.

Suppression rules/prevention drools

Confidence is going fly fishing for Moby Dick, in a row boat, and bringing tartar sauce with you.
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: Lugnut] #6284348
07/22/18 09:01 AM
07/22/18 09:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,468
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,468
Iowa
Originally Posted By: Lugnut
In addition to general withdrawal symptoms, alcohol withdrawal symptoms can include: heart palpitations, hallucinations, seizures and delirium tremens (DT's). The seizures and the DT's can be fatal.

Withdrawal from benzodiazepine drugs like Xanax and Valium can also be fatal.


Wow. I knew about the general withdrawal. Is the rest of that common, or mostly in extreme cases?

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284355
07/22/18 09:08 AM
07/22/18 09:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
if we execute drug dealers we need to start with the unbelievably rich heads of criminal organizations, then elected officials, then judges, then law enforcement mixed up in the drug trade before we start executing addicts paying for their habit which is 99.9% of "dealers" in U. S. prisons.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: Law Dog] #6284356
07/22/18 09:09 AM
07/22/18 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,239
SW WI
trapper20 Offline
trapper
trapper20  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,239
SW WI
Originally Posted By: Law Dog
Many call it a victimless crime and they never consider who pays for the services and hospital fees that are racked up every day by poor choices! Just seen one that is going to end up with a quarter of a million hospital bill or around that before it's all over maybe more! That bill will never get paid ever by that person and has already cost the system millions in services and aid costs already.


It's just going to get worse with the, (there are no consequences) thinking many have today!


also many of the crimes committed that go along with dopers-burglary, thefts, etc. cause lord knows they are too disabled to get a job

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: trapdog1] #6284357
07/22/18 09:09 AM
07/22/18 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
Originally Posted By: trapdog1
Originally Posted By: Lugnut
In addition to general withdrawal symptoms, alcohol withdrawal symptoms can include: heart palpitations, hallucinations, seizures and delirium tremens (DT's). The seizures and the DT's can be fatal.

Withdrawal from benzodiazepine drugs like Xanax and Valium can also be fatal.


Wow. I knew about the general withdrawal. Is the rest of that common, or mostly in extreme cases?


The seizures and DT's are common. Dying from those symptoms is less common but happens enough to warrant medical assistance and supervision.


Eh...wot?

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284358
07/22/18 09:09 AM
07/22/18 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
P.S. ethanol isn't gasoline. its grain alcohol. like everclear.

Last edited by danny clifton; 07/22/18 09:10 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: danny clifton] #6284359
07/22/18 09:10 AM
07/22/18 09:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
if we execute drug dealers we need to start with the unbelievably rich heads of criminal organizations, then elected officials, then judges, then law enforcement mixed up in the drug trade before we start executing addicts paying for their habit which is 99.9% of "dealers" in U. S. prisons.


Exactly


Eh...wot?

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284362
07/22/18 09:23 AM
07/22/18 09:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,758
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,758
Central, SD
Alcohol is very bad I have seen some crazy stuff one guy said the bugs were lifting the paint off of the floor then 10 minutes later said he knew that was not possible then 10 minutes later they were doing it again. The guy functioned at above 3.0 level daily it only seemed to impair his fine motor skills (he could walk a straight line OK but the turns were rough).


About anything can happen during DTs, druggers have similar issued they will tear their skin off if you let them or smash their own heads into a wall that's when a restraint chair is needed.


Guys like that you take up for a shot that helps them from doing anything really stupid.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: danny clifton] #6284367
07/22/18 09:26 AM
07/22/18 09:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,472
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline
trapper
west river rogue  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,472
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
P.S. ethanol isn't gasoline. its grain alcohol. like everclear.
it was a joke ,but it is an additive in gasoline

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284395
07/22/18 10:02 AM
07/22/18 10:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,758
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,758
Central, SD
Your taking it the other way Angie you tell me you don't know people that have lived off or the system their whole life that are dependent on the system that came from the same and will continue the produce the same? Really The cities are full of them. Come on your from IL too you cannot be serious!

Have not used your insurance in 20 years is that because you have been that healthy or not willing to pay the deductible that was the point I was making. It cost me $3,000 for my deductible my relative on aid who's husband won't better his life for fear of losing the free money that lives off of the Sister in law can walk into the ER like a Dr. Visit that insured people have to pay for because she won't better her life. Not looking at it as a Cop looking at it as a guy that works and pays his taxes I just see the waste more then the people that don't want to see it. Your paying your bill the point was many never plan to pay and the ones that will pay are not the problem. It often comes down to if you have nothing to lose and you don't pay what can they take!

As far as the needle hand out or letting people with behavioral issue medicate themselves that a responsibility that many cannot handle on their own it's ripe for abuse. You really think to get high a user won't share a needle and I can't tell you how many people that are acting out are "off their meds". Can't tell you how many people want their meds and when they are being entered into the system only the feel good meds are important the ones for their health are often full and sometimes expired even but the feel good are needed like clock work and more if they can get them any way they can.

You keep making the abuser a victim no problem but don't get upset with me when I point out the reality of how the system works later on that is what I see every day. You see it as they have no choice I see it as a self induced problem and the results of that choice. I don't ignore your side (I may not understand it I already admitted that) people have problem and I treat them well, but I know how it works on my end the "down stream" results is all I'm pointing out you can't just ignore that because you don't like it. You never see me use the word all unless I make that mistake as people are individuals that make their own choices some better then others.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: danny clifton] #6284401
07/22/18 10:07 AM
07/22/18 10:07 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
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yotetrapper30  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
if we execute drug dealers we need to start with the unbelievably rich heads of criminal organizations, then elected officials, then judges, then law enforcement mixed up in the drug trade before we start executing addicts paying for their habit which is 99.9% of "dealers" in U. S. prisons.


I'd have to mostly disagree with this too. I've never met a dealer of hard drugs, that did the drugs he sold. Weed...yes. Crack, coke, smack.... no. They tend to live in suburbia, with white picket fences, 2.5 kids, and a dog.

I think the major exception to that is meth. Meth heads seem to sell meth. Coke, crack and heroin heads rarely sell the drug they're addicted to.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284406
07/22/18 10:11 AM
07/22/18 10:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,472
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline
trapper
west river rogue  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,472
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
i dont know those ppl..usually meet them by accident without knowing,,i dont even hang with drinkers....ick

Re: Free needles are you kidding me? [Re: jbyrd63] #6284413
07/22/18 10:18 AM
07/22/18 10:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper
FlyinFinn  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
The overall rate of people suffering from addiction has not fallen since the war on drugs began. It has been a big government policy of failure. However, now their are parasites within government who know their continued employment depends upon the arrest, prosecution, detention and 'rehabilitation' of drug users and they refuse to admit the policy of failure.
The associated crimes of theft, burglary, robbery and even murder by drug users is in part due to the black market surrounding drugs. The risks of life from agents of government and the false scarcity of product raise prices. It's not rocket science. It will take a great shift from the idea that whatever I don't like should be illegal towards whatever I don't like should be mitigated by doing things that I have some control over.

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