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Re: Socialism [Re: danny clifton] #6290726
07/30/18 09:50 PM
07/30/18 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline OP
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AntiGov  Offline OP
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Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
Quote:
For healthcare to not be a disaster , government would have to have no involvement


government is providing for our general welfare



And yet , people still can't figure out why it's a mess


Report a post club - Non member


Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6290739
07/30/18 10:02 PM
07/30/18 10:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,414
Idaho Falls, Idaho
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Furvor Offline
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Furvor  Offline
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Idaho Falls, Idaho
Capitalism is a risk/reward system. You take the risk. You get the reward.
Socialism is a risk/reward system. You take the risk. Others get the reward.
Of course, Karl Marx never described his labor theory of value that way.
Socialism sounds too good to be true and it is not true. It assumes there is no such thing as free loaders.

Last edited by Furvor; 07/31/18 12:24 AM.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6290981
07/31/18 08:49 AM
07/31/18 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,424
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
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Riverotter2 Offline
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Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Seem like the word Socialist is always tacked onto wonderful people and their organizations.

Hitlers National Socialist German Workers Party

Lenin's Democratic Socialist Party

Carl Marx

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders -- Socialist Democrats of the good old U.S.A.

Seem like more of this Socialist crap led to more death, death death then free, free, free in the long run don't it.

Re: Socialism [Re: virgil1972] #6291154
07/31/18 12:49 PM
07/31/18 12:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted By: virgil1972
I agree that many of the people don't even know what is socialism really is and means. They think you can have all that free stuff, not have high taxes, and keep your freedoms.


And it doesn't cost anybody anything. It's the "Money Grows On Trees" fantasy.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Socialism [Re: danny clifton] #6291161
07/31/18 01:00 PM
07/31/18 01:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
Quote:
For healthcare to not be a disaster , government would have to have no involvement


government is providing for our general welfare
grin


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291165
07/31/18 01:05 PM
07/31/18 01:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Donner, you have it backwards. The cost of insurance is driven by the high cost of medical services. You said it yourself, $30 Tylenol, $629 band-aids, etc. How do you think that influences insurance premiums?


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291215
07/31/18 02:26 PM
07/31/18 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,756
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Law Dog  Offline
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Central, SD
Pretty sure that $30 aspirin and the $4 catchup paper cup in comes in is from the many that never pay their own bills and use the ER like a free clinic all of the time.


That meth head from the other day will end up with a bill easily over a quarter million dollars when it's over just to go out and do it again first chance they get. Never had a steady job in their life and State is paying for the kids just a never ending story.


I often wondered if coverage did not drop and the costs went up with Obummercare to keep from having to give it away if it was offered on a payed policy? Many people only see the price hike and don't consider the coverage lost at the same time as a loss. Preventive care is a shadow of what it was at one time with many basic tests and labs not being covered, 15 years ago I paid $20 for a Dr. visit and the policy coverage paid $120 now that is reversed.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291269
07/31/18 04:19 PM
07/31/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Indiana

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291270
07/31/18 04:21 PM
07/31/18 04:21 PM
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Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Indiana
Just like anything else. Get govt out and prices will fall. Just the paperwork alone required by govt would probably drop medical cost in half.

Then you price people based off life style and life choices they are making. Vs charging everyone the same

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291278
07/31/18 04:29 PM
07/31/18 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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gryhkl Offline
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A big problem is that government involvement is driven by lobbyists representing interest such as the pharmaceutical industry, energy industry, mega banking industry, corporate farmers, etc............. Our elected officials are bought and paid for before they ever make it to Washington D.C.

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291321
07/31/18 05:32 PM
07/31/18 05:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,756
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Law Dog  Offline
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Central, SD
Yep the big push to stop pharmaceutical drugs from Canada is not a safety issue as much as a competition problem with special interest groups, so who are they really looking out for it sure is not the little guy!



Last edited by Law Dog; 07/31/18 05:45 PM.

Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Socialism [Re: Trapper7] #6291409
07/31/18 07:47 PM
07/31/18 07:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,526
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted By: Trapper7
Donner, you have it backwards. The cost of insurance is driven by the high cost of medical services. You said it yourself, $30 Tylenol, $629 band-aids, etc. How do you think that influences insurance premiums?


It is a two way street, I am not a fan of Adam Ruins everything but I think this clip explains it reasonably well, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291446
07/31/18 08:30 PM
07/31/18 08:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,213
central Missouri
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Bigfoot Offline
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central Missouri
I think that it should be required for all services and pharmaceuticals priced up front and publicly posted so people can shop .

Re: Socialism [Re: Donnersurvivor] #6291907
08/01/18 12:52 PM
08/01/18 12:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted By: Trapper7
Donner, you have it backwards. The cost of insurance is driven by the high cost of medical services. You said it yourself, $30 Tylenol, $629 band-aids, etc. How do you think that influences insurance premiums?


It is a two way street, I am not a fan of Adam Ruins everything but I think this clip explains it reasonably well, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8


You really base your opinion on a TV reality show? The way this reality show explains discounts allotted to insurance companies doesn't happen. Insurance companies set maximum payments on procedures for all doctors and hospitals unless there are extenuating circumstances. They do this to try to hold insurance costs down. Common sense indicates that insurance companies aren't a charity as some think they should be. But, like any other business, they are in business to make a profit.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Socialism [Re: Riverotter2] #6291913
08/01/18 01:02 PM
08/01/18 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
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hippie Offline
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pa
Originally Posted By: Riverotter2
Seem like the word Socialist is always tacked onto wonderful people and their organizations.

Hitlers National Socialist German Workers Party

Lenin's Democratic Socialist Party

Carl Marx

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders -- Socialist Democrats of the good old U.S.A.

Seem like more of this Socialist crap led to more death, death death then free, free, free in the long run don't it.



LOL, have you ever listened to that ocasio-Cortez woman? WOW WOW WOW!

And to think, the DNC says she's the new face of their party! lol

I did notice that after he interview with M. Hoover on PBS, they musta told her to sit in the corner until november.

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291975
08/01/18 02:48 PM
08/01/18 02:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,414
Idaho Falls, Idaho
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Furvor Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,414
Idaho Falls, Idaho
The more 'aid' is given the more aid seekers will flock to the area. It's like trying to plug a leaking dike with your finger. Best current examples are California, the U.S./Mexico border, and the Afro rush overwhelming European countries. Folks assume its easier to move to where milk and honey are almost free than to fix their homeland governments.

Last edited by Furvor; 08/01/18 02:59 PM.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6291985
08/01/18 03:23 PM
08/01/18 03:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
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Marty  Offline
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North East Kansas
When the well runs dry there will be quite the dilemma in Europe and America..... laugh


E
'Honey Badger Militia'
Sleep, the anti woke adote.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6292119
08/01/18 06:59 PM
08/01/18 06:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,526
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,526
MN
[/quote]"You really base your opinion on a TV reality show? The way this reality show explains discounts allotted to insurance companies doesn't happen. Insurance companies set maximum payments on procedures for all doctors and hospitals unless there are extenuating circumstances. They do this to try to hold insurance costs down. Common sense indicates that insurance companies aren't a charity as some think they should be. But, like any other business, they are in business to make a profit."[/quote]

I wrote a pretty detailed post to which I received a few one sentence replies, in my follow up to these one sentence replies I put a clip to a show that I said was not very good, now you are accusing me of basing my opinion off of said clip, no you want a worth while reply respond in more detail to my original post, maybe give solutions not just critique.

Any industry that depends on insurance will have high rates, get a quote on having roofing or siding done, now get quotes after a storm when your insurance is going to pay for it and you will notice they are much higher than if you had to pay out of pocket, this same thing happens in medical, you have to be daft not to see that.

Last edited by Donnersurvivor; 08/01/18 07:02 PM.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6292211
08/01/18 08:40 PM
08/01/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,213
central Missouri
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Bigfoot Offline
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Posts: 2,213
central Missouri
I had 8o% insurance when I we had our youngest son . My brother in law had cash in hand and price shopped a little when they had their daughter three years after my son . we compaired money spent and he payed $800 more than my 20% I had to pay out of pocket . They had much better care with a single room . Any insurance that isn't 100% is a jip because they charge so much more if your insured .

Last edited by Bigfoot; 08/01/18 08:43 PM.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6292222
08/01/18 08:57 PM
08/01/18 08:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
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upstateNY Offline
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ny
I would like a bunch of free stuff.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
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