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Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6293695
08/03/18 07:03 PM
08/03/18 07:03 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,895
michigan,USA
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seniortrap Offline
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Quote:
Donnersurvivor:
If a doctor does not want to work under a single payer system he does not have to, he can quit and we will replace him with another doctor. If we run low on doctors who do not want to work I am sure we can find some from overseas who would gladly gain residence and work as doctors in the U.S.


When was the last time you talked to an American doctor????


Vietnam--1967 46th. Const./Combat Engineers

"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction."
"After the first shot, all plans go out the window!"
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6293733
08/03/18 08:23 PM
08/03/18 08:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Maybe a Mexican doctor.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Socialism [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6293741
08/03/18 08:36 PM
08/03/18 08:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
So you can't be a doctor in a single payer system and work for a private individual?

What is your trade?


I think I originally misunderstood what you were trying to say. Of course some doctors could and would remain in the private sector, some people have this notion that if we went single payer there would be a lack of doctors, I dont see that being a problem.

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6293745
08/03/18 08:41 PM
08/03/18 08:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Indiana
Them DEM's have a plan on how to pay for all this!

Tax us at 90% and defund our military

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6293746
08/03/18 08:42 PM
08/03/18 08:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Indiana
That's no joke!

It's been mentioned by two up and coming socialist and one career Dem in the last month

Re: Socialism [Re: Donnersurvivor] #6293755
08/03/18 08:58 PM
08/03/18 08:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,070
South Central Wisconsin
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Nelly Offline
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South Central Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
So you can't be a doctor in a single payer system and work for a private individual?

What is your trade?


I think I originally misunderstood what you were trying to say. Of course some doctors could and would remain in the private sector, some people have this notion that if we went single payer there would be a lack of doctors, I dont see that being a problem.

Reminds me of an old song lyric. "The doctor said he's coming, but you got to pay in cash "


I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. O Lord please don't let me be misunderstood.
Re: Socialism [Re: Donnersurvivor] #6293762
08/03/18 09:11 PM
08/03/18 09:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
So you can't be a doctor in a single payer system and work for a private individual?

What is your trade?


I think I originally misunderstood what you were trying to say. Of course some doctors could and would remain in the private sector, some people have this notion that if we went single payer there would be a lack of doctors, I dont see that being a problem.


There will be a shortage of quality doctors. Single payer system and you may very well be going to see muddyriverdog or whatever his handle is. He believes anybody can be a doctor.

Whether you want to believe it or not money is why most doctors are doctors.

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 08/03/18 09:13 PM.

-Goofy-
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6293764
08/03/18 09:16 PM
08/03/18 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
If you are smart enough to be a doctor you are smart enough to do just about anything, and most will when there is not much of a living being a doctor.

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 08/03/18 09:24 PM.

-Goofy-
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6293765
08/03/18 09:18 PM
08/03/18 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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Again I do not see doctors salary as being the primary driver of medical care cost, there is no reason they could not continue to receive very large salaries.

Last edited by Donnersurvivor; 08/03/18 09:18 PM.
Re: Socialism [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6293770
08/03/18 09:26 PM
08/03/18 09:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,070
South Central Wisconsin
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Nelly Offline
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South Central Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
If you are smart enough to be a doctor you are smart enough to just about anything, and most will when there is not much of a living being a doctor.

Yep. If you're bright enough to be a doctor, you're bright enough to know that lawsuits are where the real money is in the medical field. May as well go to law school.


I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. O Lord please don't let me be misunderstood.
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6293777
08/03/18 09:34 PM
08/03/18 09:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
Again I do not see doctors salary as being the primary driver of medical care cost, there is no reason they could not continue to receive very large salaries.




Ok

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 08/03/18 09:37 PM.

-Goofy-
Re: Socialism [Re: Donnersurvivor] #6294138
08/04/18 11:07 AM
08/04/18 11:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
Again I do not see doctors salary as being the primary driver of medical care cost, there is no reason they could not continue to receive very large salaries.



What do you think is the main driver of costs ?


I don't see doctors choosing to work for the feds when they could be in private practice. Consequently, that would mean that the government would have to quasi-force doctors into government service or out of private practice. I can see that happening by laws that limit what a doctor can charge or who he can see. Doesn't Canada have a similar set-up now...or used to. Seems to me, I remember reading that there is a two-tiered medical system in Canada. One system for government big wigs and hockey professionals, and another system for everyone else.


Mean As Nails
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6294146
08/04/18 11:20 AM
08/04/18 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
I bet you lunch he will say those evil pill companies that should be doing research for free.


-Goofy-
Re: Socialism [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6294157
08/04/18 11:37 AM
08/04/18 11:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
Again I do not see doctors salary as being the primary driver of medical care cost, there is no reason they could not continue to receive very large salaries.




Ok


Hobbie, I think he may be somewhat correct. Ask a doctor what he pays in malpractice insurance premiums. It won't take much math to discover who is getting rich.

· 8+ years of medical school

· the cost of building a private practice

· staffing that practice with educated people

· buying/leasing state-of-the-art diagnostic/procedural equipment

Add all of that up. Then pay for malpractice insurance premiums and try to work a job where you are legally/ethically compelled to be available 24/7. And having your patients and friends armchair QB every decision you make... Doing everything right and still have people die under your care...

I'm not sure I could be persuaded to do it for 200K a year take-home.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6294162
08/04/18 11:48 AM
08/04/18 11:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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And for what it's worth... I am NOT advocating for any government-run health care system.

There is no simple solution to solve all of the problems associated with medical care. Any solution to one variable will likely magnify the problems associated with one or more of the other variables.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6294174
08/04/18 12:13 PM
08/04/18 12:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Your post suggest that the government could cap malpractice payouts immediately impacting costs.

Reducing eduction cost could possibly bring to light great doctors that couldn't afford to attend.

A couple wins right there, that could easily be remedied with a draft.


-Goofy-
Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6294179
08/04/18 12:18 PM
08/04/18 12:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Northeast Oklahoma
I'm not sure increasing government involvement is the answer to reducing government involvement.

The cost will still be there. It will just be redirected to a different place.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Socialism [Re: white17] #6294180
08/04/18 12:20 PM
08/04/18 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted By: white17
Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
Again I do not see doctors salary as being the primary driver of medical care cost, there is no reason they could not continue to receive very large salaries.



What do you think is the main driver of costs ?


I dont think looking at the main driver of cost is as important as looking at ways we can save on cost. Currently entire wings of hospitals are devoted to administration and billing due to the complexity of hundreds of different insurance options, single payer would axe these cost, malpractice insurance and legal cost are also enormous, when you deal with something as complex as a human mistakes will happen and we need to have a way to protect against them but allowing every emotional person who is upset about losing someone to drag a doctor or hospital into court is also a factor we can deal with by offering broader civil protections. Drug prices are another obvious problem, of course drug companies need to remain profitable so research can continue but do we need to offer such long patent protections on drugs? A EPI pen contains a few cents worth of epinephrine in a device that makes it quickly and easily deployable it is not exactly ground breaking technology yet due to the patent they charge $300 dollars for a device that without patent protection would likely cost $30 dollars, I see no reason we should continue to protect the monopoly of epi pens with a patent after this much time. Of course patients not paying for care is another reason for rising cost, I just fail to see how we protect against this.

Re: Socialism [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6294181
08/04/18 12:23 PM
08/04/18 12:23 PM
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Posts: 4,524
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted By: HobbieTrapper
I bet you lunch he will say those evil pill companies that should be doing research for free.


Have I given you the impression that I am a dye in the wool commie who drank the kool aid and now spews the official talking points? Or do I seem to be presenting what I know/believe in good faith asking for others opinions in a effort to gain knowledge to either change or solidify my opinion?

Re: Socialism [Re: AntiGov] #6294184
08/04/18 12:28 PM
08/04/18 12:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Donner is there any other industry where you can NOT pay and still receive products or services?

(I'm not picking on you, but you brought up a good point of how we protect from that)

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
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