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#6297886 - 08/09/18 12:14 PM Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment
Pressure9pa Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 212
Loc: Southern Indiana
(Hopefully it is appropriate to post this here.)

Hello All. I meant to post this a couple of months ago, I thought this group might find it interesting. I serve on a committee awarding a handful of scholarships, and the application requires an essay regarding “a newsworthy and controversial issue”. We received over 200 applications, and I thought I’d share some findings.

Not surprisingly, ~75% of the essays involved school security or second amendment issues in some form.

The applicant pool was diverse geographically (within the US), racially, economically, and presumably politically. The only shared characteristic is that the nature of the organization required that they have at least one parent working in a manufacturing organization, but that could be the CEO or the janitor. A couple of students were the children of legal immigrants. They wrote these as high school seniors through collegiate juniors, with about a 40-60 mix between high school and college. Age was not listed, but presumably they were between 17 and 22.

From what we read and see today in the media, one would assume that this group is a lost cause when it comes to understanding these issues. From what I read, that is not the case at all. There were a few outliers, but almost every essay recognized the legal standing and the importance of someone being able to defend themselves, their family, and their property and that a gun is a tool to do so. Almost all recognized that school security is a much broader issue than deciding who gets to carry a gun when and where. With maybe one or two exceptions, all recognized the rights of responsible and law-abiding sportsmen to possess and use firearms.

Views were mixed on the application of background checks, waiting periods, restoration of rights to those formerly convicted, mental health screening, and some of the finer points of the issues. While I disagreed with a lot of the commentary and believed a lot of it impractical, I found them generally to be aimed at problem solving and not finger pointing. (I expected to see anti-NRA and anti-gun sentiment – the actual essays maybe didn’t agree with where most of us would fall on these issues, but were a point to a logical conversation.)

Where I can see that the 2nd amendment advocates are failing in their message is the true mechanics of how firearms are designed to operate. Many, many essays expressed limitations toward “assault weapons”, “military-style rifles”, “machine guns”, “automatic weapons”, etc., without an understanding of what those terms are supposed to mean or how some of the limitations they are suggesting would actually affect 90% of firearms, not the 5% they think it would. The antis may not be winning the war, but they are winning this battle with these kinds of misnomers creeping into the everyday conversation. THIS NEEDS TO BE A STRONGER POINT OF THE FIREARM ADVOCATES' MESSAGE.

All in all, I was much more pleased with what I reviewed than I expected to be. I fully expected most students to want to eliminate all guns and be fully willing to rely on police/government regulation. Like I stated earlier, this was not the case at all. The applicants understood the need to protect our rights and ourselves. I’m posting it here because I know this issue is central to a lot of outdoorsmen, and I thought I’d point out that the future is not as bleak as it might appear to be on the news.


Edited by Pressure9pa (08/09/18 12:14 PM)
Edit Reason: grammer

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#6297922 - 08/09/18 02:08 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
Teacher Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rochester, MN
In a sort of segue to this topic, there is a world wide movement to topple existing governments and ruling bodies. Including presidents. The trouble is, people take/hold one view: get rid of the existing thing I don’t believe in and replace it with one I do. But they don’t think beyond that one issue: they all just want to be the leader.

In the case of gun control, is anyone campaigning on the allowed use of plain old shotguns, rifles and pistols as was the case when the 2nd amendment was written? No, they’re advocating for what they want in terms of “today”. And there doesn’t seem to be any thought to the simplicity of the time of the constitutional writings compared to the complex nature of multiple shot magazines, bump stocks, silencers, assault type rifles, policing groups, the standing (paid/professional) military we have today.

We’re not thinking our history through enough to appreciate what we want vs what was written. Nor are we thinking beyond our own wants vs that of the whole country. Being president or king doesn’t mean you have the unity of thought by the whole country. It takes a leader capable of getting everybody on board for that to happen. Essay contests like give us a baseline of thought with which we can work. And this is a good starting point.

More think and less action is needed right now


Edited by Teacher (08/09/18 11:57 PM)
_________________________
Never too old to learn

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#6297956 - 08/09/18 02:56 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 7937
Loc: Oakland, MS
As a hunter, but mostly as an American, I dang sure would not give my vote to anyone wanting to limit the guns we can own to those that were available when the 2nd Amendment was written!

But, spoken like a true liberal as always Teacher.

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#6298016 - 08/09/18 04:23 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 2899
Loc: Green County Wisconsin
I would say sure I will take exactly what the colonists had , and that was everything the standing professional army had and better. cannon , musket and rifle.

it is not about a set moment in time the people had just seen the greatest advancement in arms history and they had them before the regulars.
_________________________
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.

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#6298020 - 08/09/18 04:29 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
trapper4 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 766
Loc: Wisconsin
What part of "shall not be infringed" do they not understand??????
Also, a militia is necessary in case the government gets out of control. Will muskets, cannons, and such really keep a government in check today? NO- so we need large magazine capacity, bump stocks and yes even automatics, but God forbid free people have everything.

Libertards are idiots!!!!
_________________________
The 2nd Amendment is my concealed carry permit!
Member- FTA, LIFETIME-NRA

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#6298057 - 08/09/18 05:08 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Teacher]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 5061
Loc: mn north of blakely
Originally Posted By: Teacher
In a sort of segue to this topic, there is a world wide movement to topple existing governments and ruling bodies. Including presidents. The trouble is, people take/hold one view: get rid of the existing thing I don’t believe in and replace it with one I do. But they don’t think beyond that one issue: they all just want to be the leader.

In the case of gun control, is anyone campaigning on the allowed use of plain old shotguns, rifles and pistols as was the case when the 2nd amendment was written? No, they’re advocating for what they want in terms of “today”. And there doesn’t seem to be any thought to the simplicity of the time of the constitutional writings compared to the complex nature of multiple shot magazines, bump stocks, silencers, assault type rifles, policing groups, the standing (paid/professional) military we have today.

We’re not thinking our history through enough to appreciate what we want vs what was written. Nor are we thinking beyond our own wants vs that of the whole country. Being president or king doesn’t mean you have the unity of thought by the whole country. It takes a leader capable of getting everybody on board for that to happen. Essay contests like give us a baseline of thought with which we can work. And this is a good starting point.

More think and less action is needed right now


Are you saying that the second amendment only applies to the arms of the day?

Are you saying that because the founders couldn't foresee the internet the protections provided by the constitution shouldn't apply to the internet?

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#6298076 - 08/09/18 05:43 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
EdP Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/04/12
Posts: 1174
Loc: meadowview, Virginia
Yes, what Trapper4 said. The left has made us afraid to say the true purpose of the 2md amendment lest we be viewed as right wing extremists. That purpose is to keep power in the hands of the people rather than relinquishing it to a ruling class by ensuring the people maintain the military capability to change their government. Retain that capability and it will never be necessary to take up arms. Disarm the people at the peril of losing all the liberties you hold dear, and any other liberties the government decides to take.

The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting or shooting sports, it's not just about personal defense or protection of your home and property, it's about being able to defend your liberties against tyranny. Tyranny by a government unresponsive to your needs and desires (as in the case of King George and the British Parliament), and the tyranny of the majority who might decide you should no longer be allowed to protect yourself, your property, or your liberties. Be true to the US Constitution and defend the 2nd Amendment on the basis with which it was included in the Constitution.

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#6298111 - 08/09/18 06:22 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Teacher]
Finster Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 8302
Loc: Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted By: Teacher
In a sort of segue to this topic, there is a world wide movement to topple existing governments and ruling bodies. Including presidents. The trouble is, people take/hold one view: get rid of the existing thing I don’t believe in and replace it with one I do. But they don’t think beyond that one issue: they all just want to be the leader.

In the case of gun control, is anyone campaigning on the allowed use of plain old shotguns, rifles and pistols as was the case when the 2nd amendment was written? No, they’re advocating for what they want in terms of “today”. And there doesn’t seem to be any thought to the simplicity of the time of the constitutional writings compared to the complex nature of multiple shot magazines, bump stocks, silencers, assault type rifles, policing groups, the standing (paid/professional) military we have today.

We’re not thinking our history through enough to appreciate what we want vs what was written. Nor are we thinking beyond our own wants vs that of the whole country. Being president or king doesn’t mean you have the unity of thought by the whole country. It takes a leader capable of getting everybody on board for that to happen. Essay contests like give us a baseline of thought with which we can work. And this is a good starting point.

More think and less action is needed right now
Completely lost as usual. You just don't and will never get it. I would say that you embarrass yourself but you lack the intelligence to even realize it.
_________________________
Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!

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#6298281 - 08/09/18 09:10 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: EdP]
trapdog1 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/16/15
Posts: 240
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: EdP
Yes, what Trapper4 said. The left has made us afraid to say the true purpose of the 2md amendment lest we be viewed as right wing extremists. That purpose is to keep power in the hands of the people rather than relinquishing it to a ruling class by ensuring the people maintain the military capability to change their government. Retain that capability and it will never be necessary to take up arms. Disarm the people at the peril of losing all the liberties you hold dear, and any other liberties the government decides to take.

The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting or shooting sports, it's not just about personal defense or protection of your home and property, it's about being able to defend your liberties against tyranny. Tyranny by a government unresponsive to your needs and desires (as in the case of King George and the British Parliament), and the tyranny of the majority who might decide you should no longer be allowed to protect yourself, your property, or your liberties. Be true to the US Constitution and defend the 2nd Amendment on the basis with which it was included in the Constitution.


Nailed it right here. Well done!

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#6298299 - 08/09/18 09:38 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
Scuba1 Offline
"Euro-Redneck"

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 4224
Loc: On a Boat
And again in true form, Teacher has picked up the wrong ball and is running with it. Ya just can't fix stupid. How about taking the warning labels of cereal packets. That should weed those mental bonsais out in a week I would think.
_________________________
At My Age Everything Comes with a lifetime Guarantee

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#6298318 - 08/09/18 09:57 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Teacher]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 25014
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: Teacher
In a sort of segue to this topic, there is a world wide movement to topple existing governments and ruling bodies. Including presidents. The trouble is, people take/hold one view: get rid of the existing thing I don’t believe in and replace it with one I do. But they don’t think beyond that one issue: they all just want to be the leader.

In the case of gun control, is anyone campaigning on the allowed use of plain old shotguns, rifles and pistols as was the case when the 2nd amendment was written? No, they’re advocating for what they want in terms of “today”. And there doesn’t seem to be any thought to the simplicity of the time of the constitutional writings compared to the complex nature of multiple shot magazines, bump stocks, silencers, assault type rifles, policing groups, the standing (paid/professional) military we have today.

We’re not thinking our history through enough to appreciate what we want vs what was written. Nor are we thinking beyond our own wants vs that of the whole country. Being president or king doesn’t mean you have the unity of thought by the whole country. It takes a leader capable of getting everybody on board for that to happen. Essay contests like give us a baseline of thought with which we can work. And this is a good starting point.

More think and less action is needed right now


You have obviously never read Scalia's writings for the majority in Heller v DC
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#6298321 - 08/09/18 10:01 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Teacher]
bowhunter27295 Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 4167
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: Teacher
In a sort of segue to this topic, there is a world wide movement to topple existing governments and ruling bodies. Including presidents. The trouble is, people take/hold one view: get rid of the existing thing I don’t believe in and replace it with one I do. But they don’t think beyond that one issue: they all just want to be the leader.

In the case of gun control, is anyone campaigning on the allowed use of plain old shotguns, rifles and pistols as was the case when the 2nd amendment was written? No, they’re advocating for what they want in terms of “today”. And there doesn’t seem to be any thought to the simplicity of the time of the constitutional writings compared to the complex nature of multiple shot magazines, bump stocks, silencers, assault type rifles, policing groups, the standing (paid/professional) military we have today.

We’re not thinking our history through enough to appreciate what we want vs what was written. Nor are we thinking beyond our own wants vs that of the whole country. Being president or king doesn’t mean you have the unity of thought by the whole country. It takes a leader capable of getting everybody on board for that to happen. Essay contests like give us a baseline of thought with which we can work. And this is a good starting point.

More think and less action is needed right now


Eh, wot?
_________________________
The world is full of sheep and wolves.

Be the sheepdog.

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#6298377 - 08/09/18 11:57 PM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
mnsota Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 1496
Loc: minnesota
Where I can see that the 2nd amendment advocates are failing in their message is the true mechanics of how firearms are designed to operate. Many, many essays expressed limitations toward “assault weapons”, “military-style rifles”, “machine guns”, “automatic weapons”, etc., without an understanding of what those terms are supposed to mean or how some of the limitations they are suggesting would actually affect 90% of firearms, not the 5% they think it would. The antis may not be winning the war, but they are winning this battle with these kinds of misnomers creeping into the everyday conversation. THIS NEEDS TO BE A STRONGER POINT OF THE FIREARM ADVOCATES' MESSAGE.

This,..it is a constant and continuous battle trying to educate those defunct in it's explanation. There truly is a
disconnect between rural and urban assertions concerning firearm applications. Millennial's pose a unique problematic
equation. A constant continuous bombardment of NRA hatred,interspersed within anti-capitalist rhetoric!
This is a newly formed voting block that should not be ignored,..they are being organized and manipulated,dependent
upon social media" treats". They excuse themselves as respondents to media"Truisms"
Just finished watching 20 minutes of some late night,.one would think"communist comedian" bashing Trump and his admin.
Oh well,almost two years in now and they feel so limited!

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#6298384 - 08/10/18 12:13 AM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
Teacher Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rochester, MN
The second amendment gives us the right to bear arms in case there is no standing militia to protect us. Our military budget is huge. One can not say, in good conscience, that we don’t have a standing militia.

I believe the original post by Preassure 9pa called for more education of young people about the words they’re using to describe what they think they want. This is a good place to start rather than everyone here acting like they’re all constitutional scholars and limiting this discussion to a narrow point of view. Lighten up, people!
_________________________
Never too old to learn

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#6298400 - 08/10/18 04:01 AM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
danny clifton Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11494
Loc: williamsburg ks
ill lighten up when you quit trying to take my freedom
_________________________
Ban private vehicles now. They are killing too much wildlife and too many children.

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#6298442 - 08/10/18 05:56 AM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Teacher]
trapdog1 Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/16/15
Posts: 240
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Teacher
The second amendment gives us the right to bear arms in case there is no standing militia to protect us. Our military budget is huge. One can not say, in good conscience, that we don’t have a standing militia.

I believe the original post by Preassure 9pa called for more education of young people about the words they’re using to describe what they think they want. This is a good place to start rather than everyone here acting like they’re all constitutional scholars and limiting this discussion to a narrow point of view. Lighten up, people!


Yes, his original post was interesting. Then you started blathering.

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#6298450 - 08/10/18 06:17 AM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
Diggerman Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 2974
Loc: Wi.
To get rid of or limit the Second amendment, you must first make the argument that we as American citizens are not responsible enough to keep a firearm, that we can not be trusted. (rich people, politicians and Hollywood types excepted).

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#6298454 - 08/10/18 06:27 AM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Teacher]
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 7937
Loc: Oakland, MS
Originally Posted By: Teacher
The second amendment gives us the right to bear arms in case there is no standing militia to protect us. Our military budget is huge. One can not say, in good conscience, that we don’t have a standing militia.

I believe the original post by Preassure 9pa called for more education of young people about the words they’re using to describe what they think they want. This is a good place to start rather than everyone here acting like they’re all constitutional scholars and limiting this discussion to a narrow point of view. Lighten up, people!


See those two little words there? Sure, our military is fairly healthy today under Trump, but who's to say what it will look like 100 years from now.

Also, what happens if we have to fight our military... you know, the way the people that wrote the constitution did?

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#6298462 - 08/10/18 06:41 AM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Pressure9pa]
EdP Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/04/12
Posts: 1174
Loc: meadowview, Virginia
Teacher said
Quote:
The second amendment gives us the right to bear arms in case there is no standing militia to protect us. Our military budget is huge. One can not say, in good conscience, that we don’t have a standing militia.

I believe the original post by Preassure 9pa called for more education of young people about the words they’re using to describe what they think they want. This is a good place to start rather than everyone here acting like they’re all constitutional scholars and limiting this discussion to a narrow point of view. Lighten up, people!


I am very afraid of who you might be teaching. You repeatedly demonstrate a complete ignorance on the subject of the 2nd Amendment but have the arrogance to lecture others on what you believe it to mean. It is behavior quite typical of a "progressive." To make it worse you criticize those of us who have educated ourselves on the issue for having done so. You should take the time to study the issue first and then criticize if you have a basis. Do what White17 said and read Scalia and read the Heller decision. Also read The Federalist Papers. Even though they were written before the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution, it shows the mindset of the founding fathers with regard to what became the 2nd Amendment.

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#6298463 - 08/10/18 06:41 AM Re: Today’s youth and the 2nd amendment [Re: Teacher]
Catch22 Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/21/15
Posts: 6150
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Teacher
The second amendment gives us the right to bear arms in case there is no standing militia to protect us. Our military budget is huge. One can not say, in good conscience, that we don’t have a standing militia.

I believe the original post by Preassure 9pa called for more education of young people about the words they’re using to describe what they think they want. This is a good place to start rather than everyone here acting like they’re all constitutional scholars and limiting this discussion to a narrow point of view. Lighten up, people!

WE are the standing militia. It makes zero sense to say that the Gov't army is the militia because the whole thing was set up for us, we the people to be able to protect ourselves from tyranny. You don't seem to believe in the 2nd so do you also not believe SCOTUS rulings either? Miller says, guns that are currently being used by the military, Heller says it's OUR individual right to keep and bear arms, McDonald says that it applies to the states. Our youth is being fed a lot of nonsense and untruths from people just like you.
_________________________
ATTN; Wanting to buy Northwoods #2DLS

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