When I gave a reply to do dogs go to heaven I remembered the teachings from my days of going to church with my grandparents. So I went to the book and did some looking. This is what I found.
And it is also what was preached in that church.
John 3:13
Ecclesiastics 9:5
1 Thessalonians 4:13-15
There are more.
When did churches stop teaching this.
I believe in GOD with all my heart and soul.
I didn't want to highjack the other thread.
I truly believe we wait for the Lords return and he will create heaven on earth

i understand completely and have been avoiding them posts.

Also Rev 20:5-6,11-15

Also Eze 37:1-14 speaks of a physical resurrection. The second resurrection.

Looks like you boys are looking in the right place for answers

I struggle whether to engage these posts also, but we are called to be light in the darkness so I try to sow the seeds and let God take care of the rest.

Someone's going to be wrong either way, some think it's about enjoying life and doing good, others just want flog themselves to each their own.

My belief is heaven and H*&& are here and now and doing good gets you good but talking good and doing bad you need to live with all of your life unless you change your ways.

I agree Law Dog. All men have evil in them. I for one have a darkness in me that is always just right there waiting to get out. But I have learned to control it to a point. The only good I find in my darkness is it helps me spot the darkness in others.
I try to live by this.
What man can call himself a man if he does not try to make the world a better place.

Law Dog

I was born and raised in Gregory County, SD and my father moved to AR when I was 16. I have a cousin at Muredo (?Spelling) that is the state brand inspector for that area.

I too, thought exactly like you until I was 32. Then, I discovered, I could never have been bad enough to keep be out of Heaven and I could never be good enough to get into Heaven.

Yes, there is a Heaven & (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman). Yes, we inherit our physical features from our ancestors and we also inherit a fallen nature, (character trait) called a sin nature from them. It is also made into the heart of man to know there is a true, one and only, Holy God.

There is a principal, if someone is asking spiritual question(s) or is seeking after God, God is at work in that individual's life drawing him/them to Him.

The next time we have a family reunion in SD I would enjoy talking with you. My grandparents homesteaded and several of the 9 children went to school in a sod school house.

You can read about that time period and them in the Saga of Sulley Flats.

May my God richly bless and protect you until you have worked through discovering the truth.

TrapperKent

Wetdog

I don't think it's possible to hijack threads like these. So much ignorance laced curiosity out there that your gonna get 10 different answers or opinions. Sometimes you have to deal with each and every one of them. Combine that with all the confusion that's been created by outright defiance against God through other religions.

And your bound to have an uphill fight regardless of the thread title.

My thoughts

1. Engage every opportunity your given because your called to do so.
2. Don't make God small and limited because He isn't small and He has no limitations!
3. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God

My personal problem is debate at hand in order to keep truth present. By debating just to be right. A lot of times I find myself debating just to be right. In turn loosing the intended impact of message to those who are just watching. I think credibility is lost when that occurs to those who pick up on that. A lot of time in a debate my intent is not to convince the opposition. Just give the other side so word of God has chance to plant seed somewhere. I often wonder who these internet post reach?

People are interested in this and want genuine answers. They may never post here. But are watching! If they are sincerely looking for the truth? And u are posting it for the right reasons? They know it weather you realize it or not!

Lots of folks that believe don't like to talk about all the tabloid or supernatural stuff because it seems unbelievable and may confuse or turn away otherwise baby Christians. But all u have to do is look at the types of movies being produce and I'll think u will see the human mind is ready to digest all that.

There are countries who filter this stuff out! Because of their distain for God and the damage that Gospel has on their control of population.

During our revolution the pastor's were directly blamed for our uprising! In turn called the black robe regiment and hunted down both here and in our home lands

Anywhere the true Gospel is allowed to prevail. People gain freedom!!

I'm not talking state controlled or organized religion. I'm talking shucked to the cob Individual Bible thumping!

Lol

It's also why we have "separation of church and state". As in" our fed govt can't declare a federal religion and make laws that limit our religious liberty.

See the rabbit trails?


Sorry to hijack

i've certainly seen a lot worse topics to talk about in this market.

Lots of abuse of religions lots of people you see hedging their bets as they get older trying to get a seat on that bus to the promised lands I see it more and more as I get older. A guy who never went to church in the last 50 years sending you Jesus memes when he hits 60.


People telling me if I don't fear what they say I'm a goner for sure and the next one telling me it's OK what a mess. As I drive by the churches I see people that treat others poorly and even abusively that pretend to be one of Gods people when they are poor human specimens in reality.


If I get through the day and hurt nobody and let nobody hurt me or others then to me that's a good day!

I agree completely....see it all the time as people get older.

and they think they are gonna bring you in when it only pushes you further from THEM.

truthfully all of this talk makes me rethink my son in christian school!!

but is it not the lesser of 2 evils Rogue?or at least should be.both boys have graduated and i don't envy you one bit.already believe the wife and i will homeschool the grandkids if them boys would ever take the hint.

its being run into the ground.

Come on debate is fun keeps the minds sharp! LOL Chicken or the egg? O/S regular jaws? Ford Chevy Dodge?

no,,it creates a peeing match with holyier than thou attitudes.....i know best,,no,i know best...blablabla. Totally goes against what i believe it should be. I surely dont teach that to my son. Pots callin the kettles black etc etc

LOL Reading more into it then needed maybe one for the more civil threads I have seen just people talking about life I'm interested in the thinking patterns of people I find that interesting at times and sad at other times.

The good news is the good news not the bad news,
Believers have the holy spirit inside them but they are not the HolySpirit.
If we spent our time on what the Lord did for us more, and quit spending our time tring to clean up a nonbeliever up before he becomes a believer and comes to church, let the gospel transform them we would do well.

I have yet to see one Christian one these threads claim to be a better person than a non-christian. What I have seen is Christians debating what the Truth is. If your a Christian you belief the Bible is the spoken world of God. Does the Bible give us complete answers to ALL our questions? No. But when we start deviating from the truth it does teach based on what we want to believe then we are headed down a slippery slope.

I respect everyone that will openly debate this subject without making it personal or taking it personal.

Of course it is, but the fact that you see all these things just emphasizes that we are all messed up and need saving.

Maybe I misread. But I thought the OP was asking if the scriptures plainly state that we "sleep" till we are resurrected at a later time, (even at separate times) why do most churches teach otherwise?

If I am mistaken wetdog, correct me.

You are right that was my question.
I talked with a few people today on this subject. None had remembered hearing those words in church.
Is it my old memory?

This is the point of all these religions. Lol, even if you don't believe in God? You still have a religion! Even if you are aware of it.

Satan isn't called the deciever for no reason! It's why your not to take from or add to God's word. The slightest deviation from base line adds to the confusion.

Let me reword this question
Does your church preach you go to heaven when you die or
Wait in Jesus sleep until his return?

Lol

I'm with ya law dog.

1st. The point of needing a savior is that we are all fallen. Even the saved! And depending how bad you were or what you were into at point of salvation? Could be a long time before your fixed if you get fixed.

2nd fear of the Lord doesn't mean what you think it does I'd bet. Not a fear like an abused dog would have of an owner. More of a fear of what will happen without Him. That may not be a very good explanation.

3rd. Religion is a mess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4th and final: if in your heart you truly yearn for the truth? Ask God to show you! Ask God to open your eyes! He says He will do that for those who truly seek it! Problem is:. Most folks say they do but don't really mean it.

Your body stays you go to heaven when you die.

Lol

You could start another 6 threads with just this one!

Real quick and in the weeds.

Use to be a place called Abraham's bosom I think? Verse where guys yells across abyss to the other side etc... That changed with Christ! Christ was the prototype. In short: we ascend or descend when we die. We will return with Christ after the rapture some time. I think that s called the day of the Lord. But I'm a pretrib guy.

This is a debate I recently talked about with family. My only question is this. Well, my only one at the moment. If you sleep until the Resurrection, then what about Luke 23:43??

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

According to Matthew 12:40 Christ would be three days in the belly of the earth. So that can't be what it means.

It was a common expression of the day to say "Assuredly, I say to you,"
Punctuation was added later, based on what they THOUGHT it should say.....so if you move the comma a little...

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”

I believe, this is so far the only scripture for me anyway that was messed up in translation. I know I know, that sounds like a excuse but look at it like this. Luke 23: 43, Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise. I really believe the translators misplaced the comma and put it before today. The reason I believe that is Jesus went to the grave for three days, he himself wasn't in Paradise.

amspoker beat me to it lol.

8 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

I think I've made it clear where I stand on this topic already.

But brianmall when you say


And you say "Christ is the prototype", you are contradicting yourself.

His tomb was empty, He showed the disciples the holes in His hands, and in His side. It was no longer His blood that sustained Him, but the spirit.

The two witnesses at the end time laid dead in the streets for three days and were told to "come up here". (Rev 11:11-12) They didn't go up to heaven, then back down, just to be told to come back up.

They laid dead for three and a half days, and then awoke.
This is the first resurrection at Christ's return.

John 20:17

...but if you believe in the Trinity, Christ was both in the tomb and also in Paradise.

be a good honest person,say your prayers,good things will come your way.

"Concerning them who are asleep — Των κεκοιμημενων, who have slept; who have departed this life. The death of the body is termed its sleep, because it suspends the exercise of all the animal functions, closes all its senses, and is a cessation of all motion and feeling in it; and because it shall be followed by a reviviscence to a more vigorous and active life than it now enjoys. That ye sorrow not — Immoderately: herein the efficacy of Christianity greatly appears, that it neither takes away nor imbitters, but sweetly tempers, that most refined of all affections, our desire of, or love to the dead. As others — Who are unacquainted with the truths of the gospel. It was the custom of the heathen, on the death of their relations, to make a show of excessive grief, by shaving their heads, and cutting their flesh, (Leviticus 19:27-28,) and by loud howlings and lamentations. They even hired persons, who had it for a trade to make these howlings and cries. But this show of excessive grief, as well as the grief itself, being inconsistent with that knowledge of the state of the dead, and with that hope of their resurrection, which the gospel gives to mankind, the apostle forbade it, and comforted the Thessalonians by foretelling and proving Christ’s return to the earth, to raise the dead, and carry the righteous with him into heaven. Who have no hope — Many of the heathen entertained a kind of belief of a future state, but that belief being derived from nothing but an obscure tradition, the origin of which they could not trace, or from their own wishes, unsupported by any demonstrative reasoning, could scarcely be called belief or hope, and had very little influence on their conduct."(Benson commentary)

"Death is “sleep” to the Christian. Occasionally it bears this title in pagan writers, but only by way of poetical figure. Jesus Christ made it the standing name for Death in the dialect of His Church (Luke 8:52; John 11:11, &c.). This expression indicates the restful (and perhaps restorative) effect of death to the child of God, and at the same time its temporary nature. The use of the word by our Lord in connection with the raising of Jairus’ daughter and of Lazarus brings out strikingly this latter truth. So the early Christians called their place of burial (in Greek) koimçtçrion (cemetery),—i.e. dormitory, sleeping-chamber." (Some more commentary from Cambridge)

I don't think Paul is saying that the soul sleeps. Sleep was just a term they used for death, or at least a term was used that translated to sleep in english.