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. #6304737
08/18/18 11:45 AM
08/18/18 11:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,404
NC
B
bowhunter27295 Offline OP
trapper
bowhunter27295  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2008
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NC
.

Last edited by bowhunter27295; 12/19/18 07:49 AM.

How many lies will people believe before they realize their own idiocy?
Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304754
08/18/18 12:15 PM
08/18/18 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 453
ky
R
Redsleeves Offline
trapper
Redsleeves  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 453
ky
I don't know what too say, you've summed up my thoughts on it pretty well!
All aspecs of christianity is falling to worldly interpolation!
Perilous times ahead brother sounds like you know!
Colt

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304756
08/18/18 12:16 PM
08/18/18 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
trapper
brianmall  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
Boys have been preping the fishing gear all morning. It's time to go fishing I think!


But il! Tell ya something off the cuff with the intention of revisiting this later.


As a Christian voting for our elected officials I would prefer to have a Christian in which I would vote for. But may not always vote for the Christian canadate simply because they may not be best for the job at hand. Great example would be Trump. Lots of Christians did not vote for trump because of his playboy past. Personally I feel as if those Christians lost out on all the eternal rewards to be had by Trump's election because of their self riteousness. We may very well end abortion! We have most definitely salvaged our religious freedoms for the time being and put a halt on the ever growing animosity toward Christians.

But as a Christian I feel our elected leaders within the church should be held to the highest of standards. This is where it is appropriate to whip out the self riteousness judgement card!!!!!!! It's how you keep the wolves and false doctrine out!

All you have to do is find that Catholic priest sex abuse thread to see this! Without getting into a debate about how Catholicism is a cult. I will just tell you that a lack of standards is how you get a "lavender mafia" within your ranks!

In short:. You hold your church officials to the highest of standards. If you have nobody riteous enough for position? Then don't fill it!

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304760
08/18/18 12:23 PM
08/18/18 12:23 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
P
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"
pcr2  Offline
"Twerker"
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Joined: May 2010
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potter co. p.a.
live on the ny/pa border.300 preacher pedophiles if i go north and at least that many if i go south.

something needs to happen and we should fear the one who will make the changes.not those under him that will be judged like you and i.









Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304763
08/18/18 12:28 PM
08/18/18 12:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
H
hippie Offline
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hippie  Offline
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pa
Saw where the Pope put out a statement about how sorry they are about the 300.
BIG 'OL B.S.!!

iIf he is so worried about it, why did they hide the files for 50 years???

AGAIN...B.S.!

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304765
08/18/18 12:29 PM
08/18/18 12:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
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H

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Posts: 19,689
pa
Sorry if the Biblical posts rub us wrong here at the moment, but the scandle that's going on right now set some fires.

I'll refrain from opening these for awhile. smile

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304767
08/18/18 12:32 PM
08/18/18 12:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 493
PA
R
RKG Offline
trapper
RKG  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 493
PA
Here is my take on your passage, my interpretation of it (in light of the totality of Scripture), and the function of the office.

In Acts the Hellenistic Jewish older woman were being ignored in the daily ministration, i.e. the physical distribution of material necessities. The apostles said it was more important that they remained committed to prayer and preaching, than the distribution, so they had the people find 7 men to do these duties. In essence, the apostles worked on the spiritual things, and the 7 were to minister to the physical needs.

Come to Paul's instruction to Timothy and apply those principles. The pastor/elder/bishop's main duty to "feed and oversee" the flock- the spiritual needs. The deacons are to take care of the physical, so that the pastor/elder/bishop is not distracted from his main duty.

Too often today, the office of deacon has become a "rank" instead of a "service" and thus, it's more about prestige and ego than it is about meeting people's physical needs.

So, how do we interpret Paul's qualifications? I do it in the light of what I think the office's duties require:

Can it be a woman? IMO, No, based upon the clear letter of the law "husband", and also due to the headship that is required of men all through the Scriptures. (And NO, subjection is not a bad thing- we all do it every day without even thinking about it....)

Can he drink? Well the terminology is different for Deacon than of Pastor, however in light of meeting physical needs, he had better be sober and vigilant at ANY time he may be called upon to fulfill his duties.

Can he be divorced? Well, in cases where he may have to counsel or intervene in someone else's marriage, he better have his own house in order. Also, why Deacon's wives have requirements. (Ever hear of a Deacon being interviewed, but his wife never is? Same passage gives qualifications for his wife).

In 1 Peter 1, Peter lists things we all are to supply to our faith, and the first is virtue. Virtue is moral excellence. In my estimation and understanding, the qualifications of a pastor are the characteristics of a godly, Christ like individual. Your pastor should be the greatest example in your church of what walking, talking and living as Christ did, should be. Right behind that, the Deacons.

Moral excellence. Think on that for a bit.

I was a Deacon for a time. Very humbling, very moving, very educational experience. I left because our church got more interested in entertaining goats than feeding sheep, and I couldn't stand to see the sheep suffer.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304783
08/18/18 12:56 PM
08/18/18 12:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
A deacon must be a man, says so right in the plain text. A deacon can drink, but must not be drunk. If a deacon has been divorced and is remarried, that makes him the husband of two wives. Also, deacons and elders are two completely separate jobs. Deacons serve, helping with the physical needs of the church. Elders help with the spiritual needs. As far as the drinking thing is concerned, my understanding is that when the bible says wine, it means wine. There is some evidence that getting at least tipsy is okay, in certain contexts. Tipsy at a wedding/celebration? Sure. At your kids soccer game or out with co-workers of the opposite sex? Probably should refrain. At Jesus' first miracle, he made good wine after the junk wine had already been drank. Everybody was shocked because usually the good wine was served first, and the rot-gut stuff later, the implication being that once everyone was tipsy, they wouldn't know the difference. So one could infer that Jesus understood that, and he gave more wine to already-tipsy people. That being said, the bible also talks about not being a stumbling block. IF other people see a deacon drinking, it might give them the wrong impression, and a deacon should be mature enough to discern that.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304815
08/18/18 01:46 PM
08/18/18 01:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073
montana
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red mt Offline
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Posts: 5,073
montana
What should we do about Roman 16:1
Talking about Phoebe?


Kenneth schoening
Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304827
08/18/18 02:20 PM
08/18/18 02:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 923
AR
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Preacherman Les Offline
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Preacherman Les  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 923
AR
One thing overlooked is the assumption being made that any time wine was mentioned in Biblical text, it referred to fermented wine. Not the case. Also, others of the time wrote about the common "wines" of their time (Aristotle, Horace, others) that were what would simply be referred to as juice today. The non-fermented wines yayin (Jews) or oinos (Greeks) were the premium drinks of the day (the good stuff) and were fresh-squeezed from the grapes. Wine was an umbrella term for all products derived from crushing or processing grapes.
Do you really think that Jesus would offer a stronger drink to someone already tipsy when scripture declares "not to be drunk with wine wherein is excess?" Would Jesus encourage someone down a path that he would later revoke through Paul's letters?
The fear of what others will think is a poor directive for leading one's life, whether spiritual or secular. The movement of "test the wind theology" is almost always in stark contrast to the edicts of God. The call to service is not a "come as you are, do as you please" feel-good party, but a call to take up the cross and follow Christ. Ultimately, God does not present His word to receive feedback and discuss opinions, but to receive repentance and direction for service.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

Just the thoughts of an old-time, fundamentalist preacher who still preaches (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) is hot, Heaven is wonderful, and Christ died for all sinners so all could choose their own destiny.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304841
08/18/18 02:47 PM
08/18/18 02:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
One can be under the influence of alcohol without being drunk. If the wedding attendees were completely sober, I don't know why it would matter what order the quality of the wine was. Drunkeness is a state of loss of self control. And I don't mean that a deacon should be afraid of what others should think, quite the opposite. But the bible does state not to be a stumbling block.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304847
08/18/18 03:02 PM
08/18/18 03:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 45
Eastern ND
N
Nd_guy Offline
trapper
Nd_guy  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 45
Eastern ND
Plenty of hate towards Catholics in this thread. So let me start by saying I am a Catholic that married a Southern Baptist. We attend both services and bible studies with our daughters. So, I have heard all this hatred and judgement before.

There is a single point to remember... the way to salvation is through Christ. That does not matter if you are Catholic or Protestant.


If your deacon wants to have a beer with their adult stepkids he or she should be able to with out judgement from the flock.

Nick from North Dakota

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304850
08/18/18 03:12 PM
08/18/18 03:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,117
AK
F
FL cracker in AK Offline
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F

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,117
AK
I'm in agreement with the black and white literal meaning of the Scriptures. Must be a man, only one wife, no old wine (Fermented, in other words, alcoholic beverages.), have a good, orderly household, and a Godly wife.


Psalm 34:6
Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304852
08/18/18 03:14 PM
08/18/18 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
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Y

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Marion Kansas
I'm a deacon in my Church. I've been divorced and was single when asked to be a deacon but since have been remarried. When asked to b a deacon I struggled with the idea of based of what the Bible said. Still do but was voted to b one so I do my best to serve and the rest is in Gods hands. Also about alcohol I struggle with which way to go one that one too but I know we're called not to b a stumbling block for others so I take that to the Holy Spirit for interpretation.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304900
08/18/18 04:26 PM
08/18/18 04:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,872
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
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Fisher Man  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,872
Adirondacks, NY
I am a Protestant, but agree with Nd guy. However if I were a Catholic I would have great heartburn with putting any money in the basket after what those sexual predator priests have done. Their victims are negatively affected for life because of what has been done to them. I think they all should be executed or at very least, castrated! They are the scum of the earth! Why so many? Could it be because they can't marry? Or is a hidden trait from before entering the seminary? Why isn't the Pope doing more than he is? What about all of the Church cover ups to protect these leeches?

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304938
08/18/18 05:46 PM
08/18/18 05:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
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traprjohn Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
Originally Posted By: bowhunter27295


The three questions I have:

Can a Deacon be a woman based on this and every other Biblical version of 1 Timothy?

No, women are not to teach men once puberty hits

Can a Deacon drink alcohol (wine or beer)?

The Bible instructs us to not drink at all in about 7 places

Can a Deacon be a man of one woman yet be divorced? The Bible does give justifications for divorce.

Adultery is the only justification in the Bible,,,so yes, if THAT was the reason for divorce.

I have had some surprising conversations with people I thought were strong Christians. To them I ask which miracles they choose to believe.


www.sevenoakstrappingsupplies.com for trap mods and gear
The 10 Commandments are not suggestions.
Buy a soldiers meal EVERY chance you can.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: hippie] #6304941
08/18/18 05:49 PM
08/18/18 05:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
T
traprjohn Offline
trapper
traprjohn  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Central NC
Originally Posted By: hippie
Saw where the Pope put out a statement about how sorry they are about the 300.
BIG 'OL B.S.!!

iIf he is so worried about it, why did they hide the files for 50 years???

AGAIN...B.S.!


The Bible instructs Preachers to marry women. Since Catholics do not recognize this, it has created this monster of basic needs.


www.sevenoakstrappingsupplies.com for trap mods and gear
The 10 Commandments are not suggestions.
Buy a soldiers meal EVERY chance you can.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: Preacherman Les] #6304943
08/18/18 05:52 PM
08/18/18 05:52 PM
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Posts: 11,165
Central NC
T
traprjohn Offline
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Central NC
Originally Posted By: Preacherman Les
One thing overlooked is the assumption being made that any time wine was mentioned in Biblical text, it referred to fermented wine. Not the case. Also, others of the time wrote about the common "wines" of their time (Aristotle, Horace, others) that were what would simply be referred to as juice today. The non-fermented wines yayin (Jews) or oinos (Greeks) were the premium drinks of the day (the good stuff) and were fresh-squeezed from the grapes. Wine was an umbrella term for all products derived from crushing or processing grapes.
Do you really think that Jesus would offer a stronger drink to someone already tipsy when scripture declares "not to be drunk with wine wherein is excess?" Would Jesus encourage someone down a path that he would later revoke through Paul's letters?
The fear of what others will think is a poor directive for leading one's life, whether spiritual or secular. The movement of "test the wind theology" is almost always in stark contrast to the edicts of God. The call to service is not a "come as you are, do as you please" feel-good party, but a call to take up the cross and follow Christ. Ultimately, God does not present His word to receive feedback and discuss opinions, but to receive repentance and direction for service.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

Just the thoughts of an old-time, fundamentalist preacher who still preaches (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) is hot, Heaven is wonderful, and Christ died for all sinners so all could choose their own destiny.


EXACTLY Les, but sadly most denominations don't teach about Tirosh or Oinos to educate their parishioners.


www.sevenoakstrappingsupplies.com for trap mods and gear
The 10 Commandments are not suggestions.
Buy a soldiers meal EVERY chance you can.

Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: bowhunter27295] #6304981
08/18/18 06:55 PM
08/18/18 06:55 PM
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Posts: 9,152
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Regarding the "husband of one wife" question:

Maybe that means he can't be a polygamist (multiple wives at the same time), I don't know why many denominations just assume that means he can't be divorced. Of course that may bring up another question; if a guy is divorced does God still consider him married? What about if the divorce was for just cause like infidelity?

Also, does it mean that a single guy can't be a deacon since he doesn't have "one wife"? I'm not playing a semantics game here, I think it might really mean that.


Last edited by waggler; 08/18/18 07:05 PM.

"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon [Re: Nd_guy] #6304988
08/18/18 07:07 PM
08/18/18 07:07 PM
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B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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TreedaBlackdog  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2007
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B61-12 vicinity, MO
Originally Posted By: Nd_guy
Plenty of hate towards Catholics in this thread. So let me start by saying I am a Catholic that married a Southern Baptist. We attend both services and bible studies with our daughters. So, I have heard all this hatred and judgement before.

There is a single point to remember... the way to salvation is through Christ. That does not matter if you are Catholic or Protestant.


If your deacon wants to have a beer with their adult stepkids he or she should be able to with out judgement from the flock.

Nick from North Dakota


If your deacon has stepkids........chances are great he should not be a deacon unless her first husband is dead. Nick - as a Catholic, how well do you know the Bible? I ask honestly as I have known very few to carry a Bible to mass. I should add - you are 100% correct - only through Jesus Christ can one expect salvation.

Last edited by TreedaBlackdog; 08/18/18 07:08 PM.
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