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#6304737
08/18/18 11:45 AM
08/18/18 11:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,404 NC
bowhunter27295
OP
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,404
NC
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Last edited by bowhunter27295; 12/19/18 07:49 AM.
How many lies will people believe before they realize their own idiocy?
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#6304760
08/18/18 12:23 PM
08/18/18 12:23 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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live on the ny/pa border.300 preacher pedophiles if i go north and at least that many if i go south.
something needs to happen and we should fear the one who will make the changes.not those under him that will be judged like you and i.
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#6304767
08/18/18 12:32 PM
08/18/18 12:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 493 PA
RKG
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 493
PA
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Here is my take on your passage, my interpretation of it (in light of the totality of Scripture), and the function of the office.
In Acts the Hellenistic Jewish older woman were being ignored in the daily ministration, i.e. the physical distribution of material necessities. The apostles said it was more important that they remained committed to prayer and preaching, than the distribution, so they had the people find 7 men to do these duties. In essence, the apostles worked on the spiritual things, and the 7 were to minister to the physical needs.
Come to Paul's instruction to Timothy and apply those principles. The pastor/elder/bishop's main duty to "feed and oversee" the flock- the spiritual needs. The deacons are to take care of the physical, so that the pastor/elder/bishop is not distracted from his main duty.
Too often today, the office of deacon has become a "rank" instead of a "service" and thus, it's more about prestige and ego than it is about meeting people's physical needs.
So, how do we interpret Paul's qualifications? I do it in the light of what I think the office's duties require:
Can it be a woman? IMO, No, based upon the clear letter of the law "husband", and also due to the headship that is required of men all through the Scriptures. (And NO, subjection is not a bad thing- we all do it every day without even thinking about it....)
Can he drink? Well the terminology is different for Deacon than of Pastor, however in light of meeting physical needs, he had better be sober and vigilant at ANY time he may be called upon to fulfill his duties.
Can he be divorced? Well, in cases where he may have to counsel or intervene in someone else's marriage, he better have his own house in order. Also, why Deacon's wives have requirements. (Ever hear of a Deacon being interviewed, but his wife never is? Same passage gives qualifications for his wife).
In 1 Peter 1, Peter lists things we all are to supply to our faith, and the first is virtue. Virtue is moral excellence. In my estimation and understanding, the qualifications of a pastor are the characteristics of a godly, Christ like individual. Your pastor should be the greatest example in your church of what walking, talking and living as Christ did, should be. Right behind that, the Deacons.
Moral excellence. Think on that for a bit.
I was a Deacon for a time. Very humbling, very moving, very educational experience. I left because our church got more interested in entertaining goats than feeding sheep, and I couldn't stand to see the sheep suffer.
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#6304783
08/18/18 12:56 PM
08/18/18 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739 Beatrice, NE
loosegoose
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
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A deacon must be a man, says so right in the plain text. A deacon can drink, but must not be drunk. If a deacon has been divorced and is remarried, that makes him the husband of two wives. Also, deacons and elders are two completely separate jobs. Deacons serve, helping with the physical needs of the church. Elders help with the spiritual needs. As far as the drinking thing is concerned, my understanding is that when the bible says wine, it means wine. There is some evidence that getting at least tipsy is okay, in certain contexts. Tipsy at a wedding/celebration? Sure. At your kids soccer game or out with co-workers of the opposite sex? Probably should refrain. At Jesus' first miracle, he made good wine after the junk wine had already been drank. Everybody was shocked because usually the good wine was served first, and the rot-gut stuff later, the implication being that once everyone was tipsy, they wouldn't know the difference. So one could infer that Jesus understood that, and he gave more wine to already-tipsy people. That being said, the bible also talks about not being a stumbling block. IF other people see a deacon drinking, it might give them the wrong impression, and a deacon should be mature enough to discern that.
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#6304815
08/18/18 01:46 PM
08/18/18 01:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073 montana
red mt
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073
montana
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What should we do about Roman 16:1 Talking about Phoebe?
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#6304827
08/18/18 02:20 PM
08/18/18 02:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 923 AR
Preacherman Les
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 923
AR
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One thing overlooked is the assumption being made that any time wine was mentioned in Biblical text, it referred to fermented wine. Not the case. Also, others of the time wrote about the common "wines" of their time (Aristotle, Horace, others) that were what would simply be referred to as juice today. The non-fermented wines yayin (Jews) or oinos (Greeks) were the premium drinks of the day (the good stuff) and were fresh-squeezed from the grapes. Wine was an umbrella term for all products derived from crushing or processing grapes. Do you really think that Jesus would offer a stronger drink to someone already tipsy when scripture declares "not to be drunk with wine wherein is excess?" Would Jesus encourage someone down a path that he would later revoke through Paul's letters? The fear of what others will think is a poor directive for leading one's life, whether spiritual or secular. The movement of "test the wind theology" is almost always in stark contrast to the edicts of God. The call to service is not a "come as you are, do as you please" feel-good party, but a call to take up the cross and follow Christ. Ultimately, God does not present His word to receive feedback and discuss opinions, but to receive repentance and direction for service. John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Just the thoughts of an old-time, fundamentalist preacher who still preaches (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) is hot, Heaven is wonderful, and Christ died for all sinners so all could choose their own destiny.
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#6304850
08/18/18 03:12 PM
08/18/18 03:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,117 AK
FL cracker in AK
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,117
AK
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I'm in agreement with the black and white literal meaning of the Scriptures. Must be a man, only one wife, no old wine (Fermented, in other words, alcoholic beverages.), have a good, orderly household, and a Godly wife.
Psalm 34:6
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: hippie]
#6304941
08/18/18 05:49 PM
08/18/18 05:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165 Central NC
traprjohn
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
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Saw where the Pope put out a statement about how sorry they are about the 300. BIG 'OL B.S.!!
iIf he is so worried about it, why did they hide the files for 50 years???
AGAIN...B.S.! The Bible instructs Preachers to marry women. Since Catholics do not recognize this, it has created this monster of basic needs.
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: Preacherman Les]
#6304943
08/18/18 05:52 PM
08/18/18 05:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165 Central NC
traprjohn
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
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One thing overlooked is the assumption being made that any time wine was mentioned in Biblical text, it referred to fermented wine. Not the case. Also, others of the time wrote about the common "wines" of their time (Aristotle, Horace, others) that were what would simply be referred to as juice today. The non-fermented wines yayin (Jews) or oinos (Greeks) were the premium drinks of the day (the good stuff) and were fresh-squeezed from the grapes. Wine was an umbrella term for all products derived from crushing or processing grapes. Do you really think that Jesus would offer a stronger drink to someone already tipsy when scripture declares "not to be drunk with wine wherein is excess?" Would Jesus encourage someone down a path that he would later revoke through Paul's letters? The fear of what others will think is a poor directive for leading one's life, whether spiritual or secular. The movement of "test the wind theology" is almost always in stark contrast to the edicts of God. The call to service is not a "come as you are, do as you please" feel-good party, but a call to take up the cross and follow Christ. Ultimately, God does not present His word to receive feedback and discuss opinions, but to receive repentance and direction for service. John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Just the thoughts of an old-time, fundamentalist preacher who still preaches (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) is hot, Heaven is wonderful, and Christ died for all sinners so all could choose their own destiny. EXACTLY Les, but sadly most denominations don't teach about Tirosh or Oinos to educate their parishioners.
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#6304981
08/18/18 06:55 PM
08/18/18 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,152 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,152
Alaska and Washington State
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Regarding the "husband of one wife" question:
Maybe that means he can't be a polygamist (multiple wives at the same time), I don't know why many denominations just assume that means he can't be divorced. Of course that may bring up another question; if a guy is divorced does God still consider him married? What about if the divorce was for just cause like infidelity?
Also, does it mean that a single guy can't be a deacon since he doesn't have "one wife"? I'm not playing a semantics game here, I think it might really mean that.
Last edited by waggler; 08/18/18 07:05 PM.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Biblical requirments of a Deacon
[Re: Nd_guy]
#6304988
08/18/18 07:07 PM
08/18/18 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136 B61-12 vicinity, MO
TreedaBlackdog
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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Plenty of hate towards Catholics in this thread. So let me start by saying I am a Catholic that married a Southern Baptist. We attend both services and bible studies with our daughters. So, I have heard all this hatred and judgement before.
There is a single point to remember... the way to salvation is through Christ. That does not matter if you are Catholic or Protestant.
If your deacon wants to have a beer with their adult stepkids he or she should be able to with out judgement from the flock.
Nick from North Dakota If your deacon has stepkids........chances are great he should not be a deacon unless her first husband is dead. Nick - as a Catholic, how well do you know the Bible? I ask honestly as I have known very few to carry a Bible to mass. I should add - you are 100% correct - only through Jesus Christ can one expect salvation.
Last edited by TreedaBlackdog; 08/18/18 07:08 PM.
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