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Re: Fisher v Marten [Re: ebsurveyor] #6325571
09/15/18 10:41 AM
09/15/18 10:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
From what I understand from the wildlife conservation bible,and the studies cited there,Bobcats are more aggressive than lynx and will displace lynx where their ranges overlap in certain areas and under certain conditions.It does not say they kill them,just more able to outcompete them for the food resource.What turns the table for lynx is snowcover.In areas with heavier snow in winter,the lynx displace the bobcats,since bobcats cannot compete with lynx for feed under those conditions.

Habitat has a lot to do with what animals can be supported on the landscape,and the habitat changes over time shifting the carrying capacity for many animals as it changes.Only older trappers that have been on the land for 30 to 40 years see these changes firsthand.Where the natural progression is disrupted by man,like in farming areas,you wont see any change.

There are of course cyclical changes that affect the ups and downs of the animals that are on the land at any time.I find these cyclical,shorter term fluctuations on each species more difficult to predict with any certainty than the long term changes associated with successional progression of the maturing forest.

Last edited by Boco; 09/15/18 10:50 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fisher v Marten [Re: Boco] #6325600
09/15/18 11:29 AM
09/15/18 11:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,717
Maine
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Mac Offline
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Mac  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,717
Maine
Jwood writes: "Marten liked it, but, trappers stopped seeing fisher in many areas, and cried for the state to do something about it. The season was shortened and a 10-fisher limit put into place. There was not much scientific rigor involved in that decision (that is a polite way of putting it, and I apologize if that offends anyone who was involved). Then a few favorable winters came and went, fisher numbers recovered, and now we have what seems to be too many fishers and too few marten. And yes, we know fisher kill lynx, which are an endangered species here, so there's that too."

In deed there was not one scientific reason to have our fisher season shortened. The political baloney that goes on in the name of management is crazy. Reminds me of one well known trapper belly aching about spring beaver trappers catching "his otter" so he wanted some law changes.
What he should have been doing was getting off his A$$ and trapping instead of crying like a school girl.

Fisher have been watched like a hawk for years, even though some say no.

We do not have too many or too few fisher. They have always been cyclical. I have spent literally hundreds if not thousands of hours following them around on snow shoes, since the 70s. Sometimes there are more, sometimes there are less. You should have been around back when a female brought $150.00 plus or minus. Got tough to find a track! Every jack was was out and about and they are easy to catch if you are not limited to freaking exclusion boxes!

Probably do not need the marten limit either now that fur prices are low. I know some guys personally used to take a LOT of marten back when the limit was not there, and they kept on doing it by understanding the game until the limit.

The clear or nearly clear cutting practices of the North woods has a lot of effect on both species.

I never have understood the mystic of the wild fisher being released. Like take out a domestic cat if you know what you are about and understand the game. Have released many during early canine season and a couple during the last few years of the stupid season ending before cat season does.
Not an issue.

Last edited by Mac; 09/15/18 11:33 AM.


Re: Fisher v Marten [Re: backroadsarcher] #6325801
09/15/18 05:04 PM
09/15/18 05:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Osky  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
Originally Posted By: backroadsarcher
I don't have marten in this area to speak of. But like ebsurveyors pictures show the fishers like bear baits. I have seen and pictured a lot of fisher on my baits but no martens. Very good area for fisher sets.



In my area the marten are in swampy low spruce stands, black spruce they seem to really like.

Years ago when cameras were first popular I had tons of night flash pics with nothing in the picture at my bear baits. I figured correctly that some were owls zipping by hunting mice around the bait. After cameras improved I started seeing furry buggars a glimpse here and a glimpse there and finally some still shots of marten on trees surrounding the bait. Like the owls they hunt the mice there at night. I also think the marten prey on flying squirrels which are common night visitors at my bear baits. Black flash type cameras I should think would have a tougher time displaying them, I know they do not show up very well on my ReCon cameras. If you have those low spruce belts you may have marten, check your night pictures very carefully.



Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

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Re: Fisher v Marten [Re: ebsurveyor] #6325896
09/15/18 08:49 PM
09/15/18 08:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,874
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
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Fisher Man  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,874
Adirondacks, NY
I agree with Mac and believe that fisher are cyclical. Am quite impressed with the observations of average trappers on this post. The political baloney that goes on in the name of game management is absolutely correct. Here in New York that goes all the way up to the Governor. I myself had to go through a political party just to get hired by the state.
We have an ongoing fisher study at the present time and these arm chair jockeys have up with the most stupid seasons.Primeness of the fur is no longer considered, "Recreational Opportunity" is their excuse for the seasons they set. In the Adirondacks we have had a decline in fisher numbers so they shortened the season, ON THE WRONG END. Because of one particular biologist with all of his college theories and in general arrogance we have a season in November that opens and closes too early. The December season, when fisher are at their best is gone.
Our department is running around patting themselves on the back for fisher expanding their range in western New York in the farms no longer operating and reverting back to forest.The department had very little to do with this expamsion. So what do these brilliants do? They openned a 5 or 6 day season on OCTOBER 25! Do you know the quality of an October fisher?With condescending looks we are told that they are "still saleable", just like an August beaver.
A number of years ago we had a professor and his grad student purchase a number of Yukon Lynx which they released in our Adirondack high peaks.Any fool could tell you there was nothing to eat up there, so they all took off, project a complete failure. Thank God they never got established or we would be facing the same problems that Maine trappers have had. I have looked at those traps suggested for Maine trappers and wonder what genius dreamed them up. Here in New York I have gained the reputation of being an old grouch. I have complained for years about our fisher management, or better, lack of.
One more thing, I was asked to participate in the fisher BMP trapping program. Only trouble was that they would not listen to me. I was told what traps to use, not what I suggested.Saddly I did teach that biologist how to catch fisher, wish now that I had not.

Re: Fisher v Marten [Re: ebsurveyor] #6361953
10/31/18 06:54 PM
10/31/18 06:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,581
sometimes PA sometimes ME
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ebsurveyor Offline OP
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ebsurveyor  Offline OP
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sometimes PA sometimes ME
Put out 15 boxes a few days ago. We had some snow in spots. Saw fisher tracks at about one third of the locations. For the past two nights a fisher has been attacking one of the boxes, did not go in. Only catch so far was one marten. Saw two fishers on the road today.

Re: Fisher v Marten [Re: ebsurveyor] #6361978
10/31/18 07:40 PM
10/31/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,292
Downeast Maine
scalloper Offline
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scalloper  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,292
Downeast Maine
For what its worth. Me and my sons have hunted bear since 1995 or so. We started setting a few 15-20 fisher sets while he was in high school from 2005-2015 most were on the coast Downeast Machiasport area. We were quite shocked to catch martin within 100 yds from the ocean. This year I did not get a single fisher picture at my bear baits Rt 191 mostly, but when I pulled my cameras this weekend I had 2-3 martin pictures on each. I was told there never were martin east of the Penobscott River until some were stocked years ago. The last time I trapped for fisher in this area, 191 3 years ago, I got 50/50 martin/fisher. I plan on running 15-20 sets this fall.

Last edited by scalloper; 10/31/18 07:40 PM.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness
Re: Fisher v Marten [Re: ebsurveyor] #6362009
10/31/18 08:16 PM
10/31/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,970
New York
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proratman Offline
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Posts: 1,970
New York
Great post with great input! This is what this forum is all about.

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