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why is this even a crime?????????????????? #6350304
10/18/18 05:36 AM
10/18/18 05:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350353
10/18/18 07:11 AM
10/18/18 07:11 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
J
Jonnytrapper Offline
trapper
Jonnytrapper  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Wife died two weeks before raid? Sounds like someone who visited wanted some revenge. Maybe he got on the bad side of his inlaws.

Last edited by Jonnytrapper; 10/18/18 07:14 AM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350367
10/18/18 07:44 AM
10/18/18 07:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
G
goldnut Offline
trapper
goldnut  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
Would it be illegal for me to own a fully automatic rifle with the serial number filed off?



Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350369
10/18/18 07:47 AM
10/18/18 07:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
Being a military veteran, or a war hero even, doesn't put a man above the law. He had a full auto weapon in his possession. It matters not at all that he bought it decades ago, he still had it now and it was not legal.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350371
10/18/18 07:48 AM
10/18/18 07:48 AM

C
Cysquatch
Unregistered
Cysquatch
Unregistered
C



With all do respect, the man should've known better when the serial number was scratched off. GIANT red flag

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350393
10/18/18 08:38 AM
10/18/18 08:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
WHY is it illegal. Whats different about finishing an 80% reciever for a semi ( no serial #) or owning an old military rifle picked up in a war zone?

Why is full auto illegal? Are people with full auto more likely to commit murder? Does the rifle change the way the owners mind works????


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350411
10/18/18 08:56 AM
10/18/18 08:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,388
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,388
Green County Wisconsin
well Trump could pardon him say I understand that the gun laws have gotten so ridiculous that a good guy , war veteran though of it as just another rifle , it was purchased pre registration so let him go.

your pardoned thank you for your service.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350418
10/18/18 09:01 AM
10/18/18 09:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,432
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,432
Georgia
Two words, Jury Nullification.


[Linked Image]
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350446
10/18/18 09:27 AM
10/18/18 09:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,663
S.E. Ohio
M
M.Magis Offline
trapper
M.Magis  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,663
S.E. Ohio
It should be obvious that there's more to the story than what's in the article. They don't just randomly raid a persons home, and they weren't there looking for one particular unrecorded rifle from 40 years ago.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350452
10/18/18 09:30 AM
10/18/18 09:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,381
Perham Minnesota 54
R
racerboy108 Offline
trapper
racerboy108  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,381
Perham Minnesota 54
I am thinking there is way more to this story.

Someone tipped off law enforcement for revenge for something.

I understand it's a law but 7 years in prison seems harsh for just possession.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350462
10/18/18 09:39 AM
10/18/18 09:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,141
Michigan
D
Ditchdiver Offline
trapper
Ditchdiver  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,141
Michigan
"fully automatic"....gets me every time! crazy


When life gets me down..... you know hunting/trapping season is closed.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350465
10/18/18 09:42 AM
10/18/18 09:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper
FlyinFinn  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
Land of the free, home of the brave, right? If your betters tell you that you do not rate to own an automatic rifle because you did not pay a 200 dollar tax you deserve to be put in a cage for seven years.
There will be no movement to repeal the National Firearms Act by the Democrat Lite party or the gun control club called the NRA.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350538
10/18/18 11:19 AM
10/18/18 11:19 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759
new york
H
henpecked1 Offline
trapper
henpecked1  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759
new york
Your question "why is this a crime": its a crime because it violates a Federal Law. I find it difficult to believe that any one gun owner/collector does not know this law. Now if this man passed away and the weapon found its way to an uneducated radical, we now have an automatic weapon on the street in the hands of a nut job. Cause and effect. Its called consequence thinking. We have Federal Laws for a reason, you have the right to vote and try to have the NRA over turn this law. There are exceptions and many collectors have auto weapons, they follow the law.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350542
10/18/18 11:24 AM
10/18/18 11:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
So your saying its a crime to steal because thats the law? No reasoning behind it. Its just the law? As to the NRA Id rather support nancy pelosi. She is honest about supporting gun control


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350582
10/18/18 12:20 PM
10/18/18 12:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
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hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
Blame Al Capone and the likes for why it's now illegal. Or, keep whining about something you and i had no control over.

Vote enough pro-gunners in and we might get somewhere, but with the 50-50 splits we've been having, nothing is gonna change.

Finn..........
The democrat lite paerty has done more than your group will ever do to help us. Get one elected would be a good first step. Easy to say what they "might" do when they can't even get elected to dog-catcher.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350595
10/18/18 12:42 PM
10/18/18 12:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
We have a libertarian state senator here in Nebraska, laura ebke. From what I understand, shes the highest elected libertarian in America. As far as automatic weapons, a gun is just a piece of metal, government has no more business regulating that piece of metal than any other piece of metal I own.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350627
10/18/18 01:39 PM
10/18/18 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
It's also illegal for Al Sharpton to not pay income taxes. But....


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350638
10/18/18 01:50 PM
10/18/18 01:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 520
UP of Michigan
B
billy Offline
trapper
billy  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 520
UP of Michigan
if he bought it legally back then should be ok now. seven years lock up dosnt figure.


Billy
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: loosegoose] #6350675
10/18/18 02:31 PM
10/18/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
Originally Posted By: loosegoose
We have a libertarian state senator here in Nebraska, laura ebke. From what I understand, shes the highest elected libertarian in America. As far as automatic weapons, a gun is just a piece of metal, government has no more business regulating that piece of metal than any other piece of metal I own.


Elected as a Republican and then changed parties, Same as Gary Johnson.

But that's ok with me. How many gun laws has she eliminated since she's been in?

Last edited by hippie; 10/18/18 02:33 PM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350687
10/18/18 02:45 PM
10/18/18 02:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,500
Kenai AK
K
KenaiKid Offline
trapper
KenaiKid  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,500
Kenai AK
“Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents looking for the rifle raided Pick’s Plano, Texas, home two weeks after his wife died of cancer and found the weapon.“

So, who knew about the gun and had a grudge against the old man? His in-laws maybe? I think the informant should be tracked down.


Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Boco couldn't catch a cold.

But if he did, it would be Top Lot.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350711
10/18/18 03:15 PM
10/18/18 03:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,874
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
trapper
Fisher Man  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,874
Adirondacks, NY
He earned the right to own that gun. God bless him. Jail time? Something is very wrong.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350740
10/18/18 04:21 PM
10/18/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
G
gryhkl Offline
trapper
gryhkl  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
I am surprised an avid gun collector would buy a gun with a scratched out serial number. He should have known better, verteran or not.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: hippie] #6350748
10/18/18 04:40 PM
10/18/18 04:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted By: hippie
Originally Posted By: loosegoose
We have a libertarian state senator here in Nebraska, laura ebke. From what I understand, shes the highest elected libertarian in America. As far as automatic weapons, a gun is just a piece of metal, government has no more business regulating that piece of metal than any other piece of metal I own.


Elected as a Republican and then changed parties, Same as Gary Johnson.

But that's ok with me. How many gun laws has she eliminated since she's been in?


As far as I know, not a single one. From what I understand she's always leaned libertarian but made the switch in opposition to our governor. She's pro-DACA, that's all I need to know about her. Though on this particular issue, her website says that owning any weapon, in and of itself should not be a crime.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350767
10/18/18 05:16 PM
10/18/18 05:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,966
St. Louis Co, Mo
B
BigBob Offline
trapper
BigBob  Offline
trapper
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Posts: 20,966
St. Louis Co, Mo
The law was passed because in the 20's too many gangsters used them in crimes, hence the '27 NFA. BUT, full auto firearms can be possessed legally with the proper registration and NFA Stamp, like Suppressors. NO firearm can be possessed with altered or destroyed serial numbers. Did he actually buy it, or did he steal it from the Government during his military service?


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350784
10/18/18 05:46 PM
10/18/18 05:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
Shame on him! Hillary should have him suicide'd.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: Ditchdiver] #6350929
10/18/18 08:20 PM
10/18/18 08:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
G
goldnut Offline
trapper
goldnut  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
Originally Posted By: Ditchdiver
"fully automatic"....gets me every time! crazy


Whys that?



Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: hippie] #6350959
10/18/18 08:49 PM
10/18/18 08:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper
FlyinFinn  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
Originally Posted By: hippie
Blame Al Capone and the likes for why it's now illegal. Or, keep whining about something you and i had no control over.

Vote enough pro-gunners in and we might get somewhere, but with the 50-50 splits we've been having, nothing is gonna change.

Finn..........
The democrat lite paerty has done more than your group will ever do to help us. Get one elected would be a good first step. Easy to say what they "might" do when they can't even get elected to dog-catcher.


No, they haven't. Their platform, instead of calling for the abolition of the NFA and subsequent unconstitutional federal gun laws, mumbles on about reciprocity for permission slips to carry concealed and 'lawful' gun owners. Blah blah blah. Buncha do-nothing grifters.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: goldnut] #6350962
10/18/18 08:52 PM
10/18/18 08:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,141
Michigan
D
Ditchdiver Offline
trapper
Ditchdiver  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,141
Michigan
Originally Posted By: goldnut
Originally Posted By: Ditchdiver
"fully automatic"....gets me every time! crazy


Whys that?
because automatic is automatic. They put "fully" in front to make it sound scary.


When life gets me down..... you know hunting/trapping season is closed.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350973
10/18/18 09:04 PM
10/18/18 09:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
G
goldnut Offline
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goldnut  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
"Who?" put fully in front of it? Reason I was wondering is that it really only had me guessing what you meant by that statement. Then as I was looking through the Wyoming regulations it states in there that no one shall take wildlife with any fully auto weapon. Seems they dont think it is a scary term.



Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350976
10/18/18 09:11 PM
10/18/18 09:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper
FlyinFinn  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
Can buy a Remington semi auto that only shoots singles before having to clear a malfunction in feeding due to poor manufacture and compare that to a fully single shot. However, the fully in front of automatic is redundant. It either is automatic or isn't. It leads into the bump stock discussion and the murky waters of how fast of a trigger finger is TOO FAST. Republicans and Democrats both seems to agree that there is a trigger finger that is too fast for a semi automatic and need laws made to restrict.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6350994
10/18/18 09:24 PM
10/18/18 09:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
G
goldnut Offline
trapper
goldnut  Offline
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Posts: 4,276
western pa
Not sure it is redundant but I was wondering "who" put it in there to imply scary? Guess I dont see it as scary. I think it was put there years ago just to distinguish between semi auto and full auto.



Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351035
10/18/18 10:02 PM
10/18/18 10:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper
FlyinFinn  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
The author of the Fox news story put it in there.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351042
10/18/18 10:04 PM
10/18/18 10:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
G
goldnut Offline
trapper
goldnut  Offline
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G

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,276
western pa
Im guessing he wasnt the first! wink



Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: goldnut] #6351047
10/18/18 10:12 PM
10/18/18 10:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932
SEPA
Originally Posted By: goldnut
I think it was put there years ago just to distinguish between semi auto and full auto.


I think so too.


Eh...wot?

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: BigBob] #6351058
10/18/18 10:27 PM
10/18/18 10:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: BigBob
The law was passed because in the 20's too many gangsters used them in crimes, hence the '27 NFA. BUT, full auto firearms can be possessed legally with the proper registration and NFA Stamp, like Suppressors. NO firearm can be possessed with altered or destroyed serial numbers. Did he actually buy it, or did he steal it from the Government during his military service?


NFA came about in '34. And that was just to keep revenue agents employed after Prohibition was repealed.

The ATF is a tax agency. Why they have goons in tactical gear kicking down doors over tax issues is a joke.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351101
10/18/18 11:06 PM
10/18/18 11:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper
FlyinFinn  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
The 'semi' in semi automatic is what distinguishes one from the other. Fully automatic is redundant.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351147
10/19/18 12:05 AM
10/19/18 12:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,664
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,664
Minnesota
Just follow the laws, or vote to have them changed...


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351176
10/19/18 05:13 AM
10/19/18 05:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
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williamsburg ks
330 I do both.

I have a real hard time understanding how somebody can rabidly support the ownership of semi look a like rifles and in the same breath claim auto firearms should be taxed regulated and heavily controlled. Including banning production for civilian sales.

The NRA got the NFA passed in 34 by playing on peoples fear of bank robbers. Bonnie and Clyde were fond of BAR 30-06 for example and others liked the smaller .45 "tommy gun".

Everyone ought to read up on how the government got it past the supremes.

Every argument you folks make in support of black semi rifles equally applies to auto's.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351198
10/19/18 06:43 AM
10/19/18 06:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Sandhills Nebraska
If you pull the trigger one time on a "semi-automatic", how many times does it shoot?
Then it should be called a single shot. A pump can be fired nearly as fast as a semi-automatic.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: FlyinFinn] #6351233
10/19/18 07:30 AM
10/19/18 07:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,958
Va
P
pass-thru Offline
trapper
pass-thru  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,958
Va
Originally Posted By: FlyinFinn
The 'semi' in semi automatic is what distinguishes one from the other. Fully automatic is redundant.


come on devil dog....you know the full auto distinguishes from the 3-round burst

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351243
10/19/18 07:35 AM
10/19/18 07:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
I've described before the raid I witnessed at my neighbors. I am amazed nobody got shot. I wasn't the only one of my neighbors who grabbed a gun before hearing "sheriffs dept search warrant". They didn't blow a door off but they did explode a big firecracker. Got ignorant when I told them to get off my property and tried to get me to go inside. A bunch of sorry cowardly bums I no longer respect.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351267
10/19/18 08:09 AM
10/19/18 08:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,958
Va
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pass-thru Offline
trapper
pass-thru  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,958
Va
Originally Posted By: danny clifton
I've described before the raid I witnessed at my neighbors. I am amazed nobody got shot. I wasn't the only one of my neighbors who grabbed a gun before hearing "sheriffs dept search warrant". They didn't blow a door off but they did explode a big firecracker. Got ignorant when I told them to get off my property and tried to get me to go inside. A bunch of sorry cowardly bums I no longer respect.


So you left the gun inside while you were out there getting mouthy???

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351453
10/19/18 11:55 AM
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danny clifton Offline OP
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So pass thru you want to abolish tresspass laws?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351533
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It is what it is, and has been our whole life Danny. Why bother asking a question you know the answer to and know the guy, as the regulations are, is in the wrong?

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351541
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As a Devil Dog I was taught that three round burst feature on an M16 was put there only to satisfy the U.S. Army who can't hit any side of a barn while standing inside of it. Fire superiority is brought with AUTOMATIC rifles and machine guns while rifleman use well aimed shots.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351543
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danny clifton Offline OP
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Hippie your right. He's a grown man and almost certainly knew he was breaking the law. IMO it is a good example of one reason why the law needs changed. He obviously was no threat just liked his old war weapon. I keep hoping the supremes will do the right thing and negate all the gun control laws in the U.S.

Free people have every right to arm themselves with whatever arms their government has. The government of free people by definition only governs with the consent of the governed. To maintain that ideal, the governed must have the means at hand to overthrow the government if consent is no longer given.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: hippie] #6351544
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He may have posted it to light a fire in your mind as to why you keep supporting a party of limp wristed appeasement in dealing with the 2nd amendment.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351551
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Or why you support a party that hasn't ever passed a pro-gun bill. wink

And wont, talk about limp!

Last edited by hippie; 10/19/18 02:10 PM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351601
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Your party has passed 100 percent more gun bills than mine. That is irrelevant really. It boils down to a culture of loving big government. If you don't like big government don't vote for it anymore.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351845
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Originally Posted By: danny clifton
So pass thru you want to abolish tresspass laws?


I'm just saying it's kind of sheepish to hide your gun if you feel like you're in the right, especially on your own property. You are always throwing the thunder around on here about everything, was hoping you would stick to your guns when it really came down to it.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351875
10/19/18 09:17 PM
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danny clifton Offline OP
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why do you need a gun in hand to tell a bunch of thugs with badges to get off your property?

They had a search warrant. The guy they were searching had some marijuana seeds in his trash. They found it and got a warrant. He is a guy that works every day, has a wife and at that time two young kids in grade school still at home. He is an adult and knew he was breaking the law. He also was no threat to anybody. Instead of sending a couple cops over to search/arrest they sent at least a dozen. Armed with what looked like to me like m16's. I was not alone in being outraged at how everyone around here had their lives put in danger by these cowards. To scared to do their job without an assault team. One man, one woman, two kids, marijuana seeds. What an imminent threat of harm to the officers. Me and my neighbors had a chat with the sheriff about it. Haven't seen that kind of nonsense since. They had a new team with new toys and wanted to play with them.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351883
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Not everyone has an experience where government is exposed for what it is, Mr. Clifton. Force
Once that is revealed it is a turning point for most people.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351884
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Well, as it stands now, the guy did fracture a law or two. I don't think full auto (or 3 round burst) should be illegal either but as of now it is and has been for decades now. The law needs to change I agree but it's not like he owned it beforehand. The big stickler here (for me) is the filed off serial numbers. No excuse for that one. I would like to be on the guys side but it's just to blatant. Not much of an excuse that he can give. The sentence seems a bit harsh for the guy I will say. 7 Years for a 70yo man that, I assume, has been a model citizen (a record probably would have been reported) seems a bit much. If it was some thug on the street I would say it wasn't enough. I'm not happy about any of this. Their are no winners here.

Last edited by Finster; 10/19/18 09:37 PM.

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Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351916
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I'm guessing the same situation for a hoodie and/or a veteran determine whether or not a crime has been committed.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: T-Rex] #6351919
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Originally Posted By: T-Rex
I'm guessing the same situation for a hoodie and/or a veteran determine whether or not a crime has been committed.
Not what I'm saying. You have to take into account the criminal record. Some thug on the street who has a record of crime should be sentenced harsher since that person obviously has no regard for the law. A model citizen (again an assumption) should not get as harsh a sentence.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351927
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Who aspires to be a 'model citizen'? Jeezus you may as well have a wonder bread mayo sandwich for 40 years and die. America doesn't need model citizens. We need people with M14s. So what if it rubbed against the gun safe andw wore the numbers off. Why are guns serialized and why does the fact this one didn't have one bother?

Last edited by FlyinFinn; 10/19/18 10:45 PM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351933
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Serial numbers are on things to identify them.You know so that property can be recovered when stolen.People erase serial numbers to cover up crimes,same as lying etc,it is deceitful action to try to get away with something.
7 years sounds excessive for that guy if he has a clean record.

Last edited by Boco; 10/19/18 10:54 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351934
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I suspect there is a whole lot more contributing to this prison term than an automatic weapon.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351939
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Numbers engraved are for the STRICT agrement between the seller and the buyer. The buyer may then, if so pleased, use them in an insurance scam. No way should govt give a ripe rip about them. Scratched off or so deep they show up on a DNA test.

Last edited by FlyinFinn; 10/19/18 10:59 PM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: Ole] #6351944
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Originally Posted By: Ole
I suspect there is a whole lot more contributing to this prison term than an automatic weapon.

You should put an advertisement in the paper for a willing jury member. Prosecutors might see it.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351992
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Of course law enforcement can use evidence like removed serial numbers as indicative of covering up a crime in their investigation.What planet are you from.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351997
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They just numbers BOCO. Save some wind for skirt blowing. Does each box of ye Lucky Charms cereal come with special numbers?

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6351998
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Who stole me Lucky Charms?.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: FlyinFinn] #6352082
10/20/18 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: FlyinFinn
They just numbers BOCO. Save some wind for skirt blowing. Does each box of ye Lucky Charms cereal come with special numbers?


Then I'd like your SS number, bank account numbers, etc. Just numbers. whistle

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352086
10/20/18 08:19 AM
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it shouldn't be a crime to build a firearm for resale without a serial number. many many many firearms out there produced before that was a law. its still legal to build one for your own use without a serial number.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352104
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What actual crime did this man commit? Who was victimized by his actions?

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352108
10/20/18 08:51 AM
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According to this write-up, he also plead guilty to dope possession.
How much dope did he have? Might explain the sentence he got.

http://www.newser.com/story/266092/american-hero-jailed-for-decades-old-gun-buy.html

It was obvious there was more to the story and the gun headline was to tug at some hearts.

Here's another one...His family led the ATF to him.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/guns/201...-rifle-purchase

"mentally unstable addict"

Last edited by hippie; 10/20/18 09:03 AM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352220
10/20/18 10:56 AM
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Ah so he is part of the compromised class. The class that NRA and Republicans through under the bus in one of their many appeasements. "Unstable addict". LOL.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352229
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The 2nd article you posted hippie said he had 10 grams of marijuana and 2 grams cocaine,
3/8 ths of an ounce of weed,the article said he was sentenced for
possessing a firearm while using/possessing a controlled substance.
Are you suggesting anyone caught with a misdemeanor amount of
marijuana should loose their 2nd Amendment rights?
Or only if someone they know says they might have a problem?

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352235
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Unlike the 4th which uses the word unreasonable which can be interpreted differently. The 2nd says 'shall not infringe' which is a "concrete" unchangeable statement. Although he can be charged with a drug crime I don't believe it constitutional to charge him with a gun crime.


James 1: 19-20
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352241
10/20/18 11:31 AM
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Guys like him are the reason we have regulations on such firearms. Going into hospitals and threatening to shoot people in the knees and elbows while doped up. crazy

Go ahead and defend idiots, you'll get more regulations.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: hippie] #6352242
10/20/18 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: hippie
Guys like him are the reason we have regulations on such firearms. Going into hospitals and threatening to shoot people in the knees and elbows while doped up. crazy

Go ahead and defend idiots, you'll get more regulations.


I'd say go on defending regulations, you'll get more regulations.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352243
10/20/18 11:36 AM
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Could be, but this guy isn't where i want to plant my flag.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: Art S] #6352244
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Originally Posted By: Art S
The 2nd article you posted hippie said he had 10 grams of marijuana and 2 grams cocaine,
3/8 ths of an ounce of weed,the article said he was sentenced for
possessing a firearm while using/possessing a controlled substance.
Are you suggesting anyone caught with a misdemeanor amount of
marijuana should loose their 2nd Amendment rights?
Or only if someone they know says they might have a problem?


Read his background....2014 brandishing a firearm while criminally tresspassing is just one. (at hospitals)
Not his first run-in whith weapons.

"repeated criminal behavior"

Last edited by hippie; 10/20/18 11:42 AM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352247
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I agree that this guy isn't a rallying cause but I don't think that was the OPs point in the beginning.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/guns/201...-rifle-purchase
That article is a primary example of why we need to draw a line in the sand in fact move it back.



"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352249
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It says they didn't charge him with the unregistered gun or serial number violation. Doesn't say what he was charged with, but my guess is repeated terroristic threats (while doped up and in possession of a gun). Fake news!


Last edited by hippie; 10/20/18 11:48 AM.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352250
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Show me a reasonable person wronged, i'll stand with. Not this guy, even his daughter saw he was nuts.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352253
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Fairweather friend to the 2nd amendment.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352254
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Fella told me.........If ya can't afford the 200 dollar stamp, ya can't afford ten seconds on the trigger, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnU1t7UzgM

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352255
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Your right Finn.
Drug addicts running around with guns threatening people, i don'y support. They cause regular people to force our gov't to make laws that us normal people don't want.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352259
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The article states that he was convicted for
possessing a firearm while using illegal drugs.
Was it his kids that called ATF or were they her kids?
If her kids,is there an inheritance involved?Did they not like him being with their mom?
I know I'm throwing out "what ifs" that we don't know,
but there has to be more than we're being told.
I'm not trying to defend this individual,
do not know enough about this specific case and I
don't trust what the media is portraying,headline says he was arrested
for a scary gun, but the article says it was for possessing a firearm while using drugs.Fake news.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352261
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How about the part the he admitted to stealing the gun while in the military?

Read it close and you'll see whos daughter.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352296
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Prosecutors SAY he admitted to others (no proof and not charged) to stealing from the government.
Her last name is different than his,could be either married or the daughter of
his wife of 40 years which would still be considered "his" daughter? Don't know.
We live in a scary world when anyone can say someone is a danger,
and the law can come in and prosecute any crime they find.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352301
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So when it says his daughter, and her stepmother, you can't figure that out?

Come on, this guy IS NOT THE GUY TO STAND ON!

HE'S A POSTER CHILD FOR GUN CONTROL IDIOTS!

They just love to point out guys who buy illegal guns at gun shows (his lawyers story), want more background checks?
You guys are being stupid. PERIOD.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352309
10/20/18 01:32 PM
10/20/18 01:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
FlyinFinn Offline
trapper
FlyinFinn  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,911
MN
No such thing as illegal guns. Period.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6352311
10/20/18 01:36 PM
10/20/18 01:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
Your right Finn, my mistake.

Even an automatic is legal for normal people, just not idiots doped up going into hospitals threatening people with them.PERIOD.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6353145
10/21/18 06:17 PM
10/21/18 06:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
even fully automatics???


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6354267
10/22/18 11:37 PM
10/22/18 11:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
upstate NY
M
Mr. Ed Offline
trapper
Mr. Ed  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
upstate NY
News article said he had cocaine and pot in his possession.

Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6354281
10/23/18 12:24 AM
10/23/18 12:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
T
TONY.F Offline
trapper
TONY.F  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
I think I need to start buying water proof gun safes and hide my guns before I get throwed in the slammer for a pellet gun!


LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
Re: why is this even a crime?????????????????? [Re: danny clifton] #6354308
10/23/18 05:40 AM
10/23/18 05:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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