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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: wallfur]
#6352906
10/21/18 10:48 AM
10/21/18 10:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
Muskrat
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
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Muskrat have you or the sportsman talked with the railroad? yup, and have attended a meeting, end result: lip service thought of paying for a crossing? who has that kind of money? in some cases the crossing can also benefit the railroad giving them access for them to set on and off the tracks with there hyrail trucks. the railroad is a business and crossing are expensive to maintain. Why leave it to the government to fix it for you? Who else will fix it? "The government" fixed the landowner liability issue years ago. The same could be done for directly crossing railroad tracks to access public lands for the purposes of hunting, fishing and trapping. Interesting isn't it? Go back through this thread and count the number of posts that give positive advice on how Wisconsin citizens might change this ruling to once again allow us to access these public lands and waters for the purposes of hunting, fishing and trapping. Now count the number of posts that point out any number of reasons why we should give up and accept the fact that these public areas are now off limits. I've read it here before and have come to believe it. Trappers are our own worst enemy. The Looking Out for Number One club is alive and well on this forum.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Dirty D]
#6352918
10/21/18 11:11 AM
10/21/18 11:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
Muskrat
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
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Think this Wisconsin citizen hunts, fishes or traps on any of that public land that is now inaccessible? President of the Looking Out for Number One Club and no doubt actively recruiting. unfortunately, railroad is private property and can be posted just like any other private land. agree with this except for one small detail. I don't find it unfortunate that private property can be posted. I own land and I don't want Joe Public mucking around on it. For me this is an issue of Private Property Rights. I know alot of you are upset about this cause your access to public lands are limited. You wouldn't care if your ox wasn't getting gored. Private Property rights trump your access to public land. As far as Tony Evers, Elimination of private property rights sound like communism.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Zim]
#6352930
10/21/18 11:28 AM
10/21/18 11:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
Muskrat
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
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Who would assume liability for an "incident" with someone crossing the tracks? Normally an incident with a train is fatal. I doubt anyone on the railroad side of the issue is gonna back down on a safety issue.
Zim Zim, legislation could be drafted to mirror Wisconsin 895.52 with respect to liability for crossing the tracks to access public lands and waters for the purposes of hunting, fishing and/or trapping. If liability can be lifted for recreational purposes on private property, why can't the same be done for crossing the tracks, which are also private property? https://www.lwm-info.org/DocumentCenter/...mmunity-statute
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Dirty D]
#6352936
10/21/18 11:39 AM
10/21/18 11:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,050
WI
nimzy
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,050
WI
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Please tell me why a PRIVATE landowner should have to allow trespassing on his property?
I wouldn’t consider the RR your “typical” landowner. Owns a shoestring of property with the ability to tie up thousands of acres. That’s just BS. Deny a citizen of what’s rightfully theirs while they inconvenience me as I wait patiently to pass when they block the road. Double slap in the face. Sorry but they should compromise and be absolved of any liability to sportsmen crossing.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Dirty D]
#6352937
10/21/18 11:39 AM
10/21/18 11:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,581
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,581
MN
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Please tell me why a PRIVATE landowner should have to allow trespassing on his property?
Just that simple.
This is why Libertarians are confined to the internet and hold no power or large sway on policy. Corporations use eminent domain to seize land or have it given to them by the states or feds, they use millions of dollars for "campaign contributions" and spend millions more on lobbyist to make sure their agenda is put to the forefront. When the Railroads went broke it was the U.S federal govt who used OUR tax dollars to step in and bail them out, now when citizens ask OUR GOVT to come to our aid and fix a simple problem the railroad and those who support this yell about "individual freedom" and "private property rights". Give me a break, this is corrupt and should be fixed.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Muskrat]
#6352944
10/21/18 11:51 AM
10/21/18 11:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,081
montana
red mt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,081
montana
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Muskrat sometimes preaching is not option to take,
Sometimes you have to lead by example start at the RR, next legislators, governors office,so on etc.
We deal with the government shutting down road and trail that been open and now are getting closed .
Really nobody cares if there's grizzly in your back yard, but the Grizzley in everybodies back yard now something will get done. (Apparently they are not yet in every bodies back yard yet as they are once again listed)
That's why America is great there is time to speak then there is a time to act.
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: red mt]
#6352947
10/21/18 11:58 AM
10/21/18 11:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
Muskrat
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
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Muskrat sometimes preaching is not option to take,
Sometimes you have to lead by example start at the RR, next legislators, governors office,so on etc.
We deal with the government shutting down road and trail that been open and now are getting closed .
Really nobody cares if there's grizzly in your back yard, but the Grizzley in everybodies back yard now something will get done. (Apparently they are not yet in every bodies back yard yet as they are once again listed)
That's why America is great there is time to speak then there is a time to act.
I attended the meeting in Stoddard two years ago and spoke my piece. So did many, many others. We thought we had it back in 2014 when the Legislature’s Joint Finance Committee okayed a provision in the 2015-17 budget to safely cross the tracks in its budget review. Unfortunately, Scott Walker vetoed it. Now I'm waiting for the November election results to determine the next course of action. If Walker wins, well, back to the drawing board. If Evers wins, we've now got a commitment from "Team Tony" to reverse things. As posted at the beginning: As Governor, Tony will work with conservation leaders in the Legislature to address the issue. Returning reasonable access is a common sense approach.
I expected more out of Walker when he took office with regard to our natural resources and hunting, fishing and trapping opportunities. Pat Durkin neatly summarized the last eight years in his most recent column: https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/sto...men/1682625002/
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Zim]
#6352953
10/21/18 12:09 PM
10/21/18 12:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,928
NY
Canvasback2
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,928
NY
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Who would assume liability for an "incident" with someone crossing the tracks? Normally an incident with a train is fatal. I doubt anyone on the railroad side of the issue is gonna back down on a safety issue.
Zim If someone walks down the middle of a busy Highway and gets struck and killed by a truck going the speed limit, does the State become liable for the death , because they own the Highway ? No. If someone decides to walk down the middle of a busy highway and they get killed, it is the fault of the person that got killed ; not the driver that hit them or whoever owns the Highway. The only exception would be , is if the driver was drunk; and then I believe that they would not be completely at fault because the person that got killed should not have been walking down the middle of the road in the first place ! Here is another example: Let say you have a State road in front of your house. Decades ago, the original State road was on your property, but they decided to move the road over so that it could run straight. The State puts the new road in and leaves the old section of road intact on your property. The catch is this: The State NEVER officially abandoned the old section of road or the right of way on your property. The old road deteriorates over the years, and one day you trip over some exposed rebar in the concrete road. Is the State liable for the injury suffered in the slip and fall over the deteriorated concrete road , which the State still technically owns ? I say no.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: corky]
#6352980
10/21/18 12:49 PM
10/21/18 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
gryhkl
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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" but if we can trust hunters to walk around safely with loaded weapons, I think we can trust them to look both ways when they get to a railroad track. Not surprisingly, there's no evidence of anyone being injured trying to cross a railroad track to access public lands."
The problem with that quote is that Tony Evers does not trust ANY civilian to walk around safely with loaded weapons. F rated on 2nd Amendment. This is one of the most sensible statements concernng the matter. I scott walker won't budge, he is no friend of sportsmen nor the general public who own thess public lands. Run the bum out.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Muskrat]
#6352997
10/21/18 01:06 PM
10/21/18 01:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
tjm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
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Start your campaign in the news media, attract the attention of more people. Use petitions and seek a referendum. You might get more traction by emphasizing access for non-hunting activities like nature hikes or bird watching. Appeal to the voters and the politicians will come to you.
If sportsmen want this let sportsmen fix it, socialism in the form of letting the "state" fix your problems and fiance your hunting access by use of taxes on non-hunting citizens is a negative in the long term, because in the end it is just socialism. "Big Brother babysit us"
Hunters and trappers are a tiny minority and we should not expect politicians nor corporations to make special rules for us at their expense, if we want public support we need to sell our wants to the public not to an assistant to a politician, whose job will end when the election is over.
Team Tony did not commit to anything, the comment can be taken to mean "if we can not trust these people to look both ways before crossing the track, then we can not trust these people to carry guns", I'd be careful with placing faith in such people.
I doubt that the "state" actually wants to keep you from using that public property, I think that there is not enough people wanting that access to stir up anything other than indifference on the part of the politicians and it becomes a matter of "why spend the money".
Shoot for one crossing in every 3-5 miles, or a access road trough the public land from crossing to crossing and parking areas on it.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Canvasback2]
#6353046
10/21/18 03:06 PM
10/21/18 03:06 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447
idaho
wallfur
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447
idaho
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Who would assume liability for an "incident" with someone crossing the tracks? Normally an incident with a train is fatal. I doubt anyone on the railroad side of the issue is gonna back down on a safety issue.
Zim If someone walks down the middle of a busy Highway and gets struck and killed by a truck going the speed limit, does the State become liable for the death , because they own the Highway ? No. If someone decides to walk down the middle of a busy highway and they get killed, it is the fault of the person that got killed ; not the driver that hit them or whoever owns the Highway. The only exception would be , is if the driver was drunk; and then I believe that they would not be completely at fault because the person that got killed should not have been walking down the middle of the road in the first place ! Here is another example: Let say you have a State road in front of your house. Decades ago, the original State road was on your property, but they decided to move the road over so that it could run straight. The State puts the new road in and leaves the old section of road intact on your property. The catch is this: The State NEVER officially abandoned the old section of road or the right of way on your property. The old road deteriorates over the years, and one day you trip over some exposed rebar in the concrete road. Is the State liable for the injury suffered in the slip and fall over the deteriorated concrete road , which the State still technically owns ? I say no. ....state ground and highways are not private property...the railroad is. there is a difference!
Last edited by wallfur; 10/21/18 03:15 PM.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Muskrat]
#6353110
10/21/18 05:35 PM
10/21/18 05:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,939
east central WI
Dirty D
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,939
east central WI
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You're absolutely right, DD. To heck with the thousands of sportsmen and women that used to access these public lands and waters to hunt, fish and trap.
No need to change, eh buddy?
It's all about PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.
Darned good thing it doesn't affect you, right? You must be president of your local Looking Out for Number One chapter.
I must be right, you can give no logical reason why you should be able to trespass on private property. Your only justification is you used to be able to. You claim I'm looking out for number one but its you who whats to trespass. Your recreation is more important to you than a basic simple right that all Americans enjoy. The right to own and control access to private property. Again, One LOGICAL reason why you should be able to trespass on private property. There is none, Socialism/communism is what you seek, no private property rights.
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Muskrat]
#6353174
10/21/18 06:49 PM
10/21/18 06:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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So a Republican governor sides with big business over sportsmen...
...and you're surprised?
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: James]
#6353218
10/21/18 07:42 PM
10/21/18 07:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
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So a Republican governor sides with big business over sportsmen...
...and you're surprised?
Jim He shouldn't be surprised. But if he had a D gov, he would be even more screwed.
I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: James]
#6353261
10/21/18 08:17 PM
10/21/18 08:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,942
PA
elkaholic
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,942
PA
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So a Republican governor sides with big business over sportsmen...
...and you're surprised?
Jim I see a republican gov that is for private property rights while a possible dem one wants to take them away.
Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
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Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands
[Re: Dirty D]
#6353271
10/21/18 08:22 PM
10/21/18 08:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
Muskrat
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,468
Wisconsin
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. . . I must be right, you can give no logical reason why you should be able to trespass on private property.
Your only justification is you used to be able to.
You claim I'm looking out for number one but its you who whats to trespass.
Your recreation is more important to you than a basic simple right that all Americans enjoy.
The right to own and control access to private property.
Again, One LOGICAL reason why you should be able to trespass on private property.
There is none, Socialism/communism is what you seek, no private property rights.
Dang Double D, you missed a golden opportunity to share these ideas with the fellas that assembled at that meeting with the railroad honcho in Stoddard two years ago. The room must've been full of Communists that night, as sportsman after sportsman got up and vocalized their feelings about being shut out of the public lands and waters that they, their fathers, grandfathers, and in some cases their great grandfathers had accessed for so many years. Tell you what, buddy. There comes another meeting like that, I'll give you gas money to come on down and explain to these river boys why they're all Communists in your mind. I'll even buy you the first beer afterwards at the local tavern where we can sit down and share thoughts and ideas. Yuppers, I'll even throw in bucks for your motel room that night. What say ye?
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