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Question about Canine Flat Sets #6367496
11/07/18 05:51 PM
11/07/18 05:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
Please excuse my crude, marked up, football playbook drawing, but I'm a visual person. I wanted some advice on what others think about their flatsets. At what point do you start to question when you are wrong in trap placement? In the photo I edited for you from this morning's check, you can see the trap in light blue, the yellow circle around the rock is a tiny bit of coyote gland lure, the yellow zig zag on the right is coyote/fox urine. The red circled tracks are from a big wolf that ran through last night, the purple circled traps are a coyote that ran through the night before.

I went with my gut this morning, and I DID NOT touch this set. I told myself, it's just a matter of time, they'll get caught, don't go messing with anything. They clearly are fired up and enjoy marking the set otherwise they wouldn't keep returning. I did put two teeny tiny rocks in each wolf track, to maybe get them to step slightly different. However, it's only a coyote trapper's nature to second guess oneself and wonder if you have your placement off? I use my trapline dog as my guide for trap placement so when he peed on this spot the day I was setting traps, I bedded the trap right in his track. He's an 80 pound collie so I thought the placement should have been perfect.

Other picture is the set the day I made it, before all the canines ran through.

Am I just overthinking it? How many "misses" do you guys let your sets get before you do something different??


Thanks for any responses.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367559
11/07/18 06:59 PM
11/07/18 06:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,160
Port Jervis, NY
B
beachcomber13 Offline
trapper
beachcomber13  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Port Jervis, NY
I'd also leave it alone..but when I can't stay away any longer because the trap is still empty after two weeks I'd put in a urine post set about ten feet away using two traps.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: JBelile] #6367560
11/07/18 07:00 PM
11/07/18 07:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
I normally don't but I had to remake two of the sets that were within a few yards of this one because I don't use waxed dirt in early season but now we have freezing temps coming so I re-bed all my sets in weatherproof dirt....except this one lol


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: beachcomber13] #6367561
11/07/18 07:03 PM
11/07/18 07:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by beachcomber13
I'd also leave it alone..but when I can't stay away any longer because the trap is still empty after two weeks I'd put in a urine post set about ten feet away using two traps.


I'll have to do that maybe by Sunday if I don't connect. A man could drive himself crazy second guessing himself. I was thinking if I find another fresh scat pile on another property maybe I'll add it to the set a few inches up, just to keep them interested?


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367566
11/07/18 07:10 PM
11/07/18 07:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,288
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
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EdP  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
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meadowview, Virginia
The lack of any backing at all surprised me.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: beachcomber13] #6367576
11/07/18 07:21 PM
11/07/18 07:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 726
WI
*
*AceTrapper* Offline
trapper
*AceTrapper*  Offline
trapper
*

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 726
WI
Originally Posted by beachcomber13
I'd also leave it alone..but when I can't stay away any longer because the trap is still empty after two weeks I'd put in a urine post set about ten feet away using two traps.


You got an empty k9 trap that long you better be making a new set/s or move on as you are wasting your time and there's more/different k9s to be caught with less effort.

My 2 cents FWIW

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367580
11/07/18 07:27 PM
11/07/18 07:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,158
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,158
WI
Maybe it is the picture, but that black blob really sticks out. I notice a pattern of the coyote and wolf both stepping there...just different distances out. About the only pattern I see. Not a big time canine trapper, but on the flat sets I had success with, I want them focusing in on an something when the scent hits them.

Last edited by WIMarshRAT; 11/07/18 07:28 PM.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: WIMarshRAT] #6367587
11/07/18 07:40 PM
11/07/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
Maybe it is the picture, but that black blob really sticks out. I notice a pattern of the coyote and wolf both stepping there...just different distances out. About the only pattern I see. Not a big time canine trapper, but on the flat sets I had success with, I want them focusing in on an something when the scent hits them.


Are you talking about the black blob to the left of the bottom purple coyote track? That's actually a scat pile from a fox that I added. So what you are saying makes sense, if they sniff the scat pile, then take a step forward to mark the scat pile, that's probably why their tracks are all about a foot north of my trap bed...maybe it is as simple as moving or adding a fresh scat pile 6 inches south??


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: EdP] #6367589
11/07/18 07:40 PM
11/07/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by EdP
The lack of any backing at all surprised me.


Usually flat sets don't utilize a backing...but to a wild canine, even a domestic canine, those little teeny tiny tufts of grass are a fire hydrant to them


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367620
11/07/18 08:22 PM
11/07/18 08:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,575
carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man Offline
trapper
The Possum Man  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,575
carolina, Alabama
put in a third lure on a stick or rock make a triangle from the 3 lure placements. Put a trap right in the center of the triangle and make sure the scents are 9-10" away from the center of the pan.


"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367625
11/07/18 08:30 PM
11/07/18 08:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,619
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,619
Rodney,Ohio
I would not do anything to this awt either. Just in the future, perhaps pick a spot that can give you a natural walk through like some grass clumps to funnel the coyote in

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SNIPERBBB] #6367627
11/07/18 08:37 PM
11/07/18 08:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB
I would not do anything to this awt either. Just in the future, perhaps pick a spot that can give you a natural walk through like some grass clumps to funnel the coyote in


I didn't pick this spot, it picked me! lol when I was scouting, I put in 2 regular boring dirt holes at this location and the backscratching and scat piles stuck out like a sore thumb...being a coyote trapper I couldn't just walk by and not put a set here. But unfortunately this is just a pond that was created 2 summers ago, so there's nothing for 100 yards in any direction, just dirt and the little bit of clover clumps that you see in the picture.


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: JBelile] #6367629
11/07/18 08:38 PM
11/07/18 08:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by JBelile
Now that I realize the black blob is fox scat, I would put it right on the coyote track in the top purple circle.


I think I'm going to slap my hand and not touch it until Sunday...and if I still haven't connected then what do I have to lose, I'll move the trap like you said, to the north 6-8 inches where those tracks seem to congregate.


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367721
11/07/18 10:48 PM
11/07/18 10:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 80
MO
T
Turd Furgeson Offline
trapper
Turd Furgeson  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 80
MO
It is a nice subtle well blended set, I would leave the trap as is and guide a little harder with the Fox turd and a dirt clod or two. It will make a catch either way before too long I would think.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367771
11/08/18 12:10 AM
11/08/18 12:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 103
Ct USA
M
MGGC Offline
trapper
MGGC  Offline
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M

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 103
Ct USA
Put a trail cam on it on video setting to see what there doing. It will answer all your questions.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367869
11/08/18 02:04 AM
11/08/18 02:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,823
N.C MO
T
TONY.F Offline
trapper
TONY.F  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,823
N.C MO
The perfect circle around your trap tells me. Make were they are stepping less inviting or add another trap. A small stepping stick wouldn't hurt. They are showing you were they want to step. Now you show them where to step.


LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6367897
11/08/18 02:20 AM
11/08/18 02:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 408
East ,ID
trapntrade Offline
trapper
trapntrade  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 408
East ,ID
I would take a rock and smear some lure on the bottom of the rock and put it behind the trap where the purple circle is




"getting old isn't for whimps"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6368710
11/09/18 12:03 AM
11/09/18 12:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,312
USA MN
S
Snowpa Offline
trapper
Snowpa  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,312
USA MN
IMO he knows where your trap is ,That means odor to me


Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6368819
11/09/18 01:52 AM
11/09/18 01:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,302
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,302
Marion Kansas
I'm not a master at the flat set but I like my attractants about 9 inches or so from the pan of the trap so they have to take a step to get from one odor to the other. It's hard to tell from photo but it appears your attractants may be closer than that. Also like previously mentioned move the droppings so that all three attractants make a triangle with trap centered.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6368861
11/09/18 02:34 AM
11/09/18 02:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,245
E central Il
G
Golf ball Offline
trapper
Golf ball  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,245
E central Il
^^^^^ couldn’t have said it better ! ^^^^^^

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6368909
11/09/18 03:33 AM
11/09/18 03:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,481
N.W. Iowa
T
Tactical.20 Offline
trapper
Tactical.20  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,481
N.W. Iowa
It will happen, I saw prints in the frozen mud, missed trap by inches

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6368964
11/09/18 05:37 AM
11/09/18 05:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,143
SW Pa
W
wr otis Offline
trapper
wr otis  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,143
SW Pa
All the tracks going in same direction, they are travelling not stopping to check lure. Notice gate of steps. I would set two more, one before this trap one after. Make all three blind no lure no nothing. Space them out enough for double catches not to tangle. Set all three right under tracks. That picture they showed you were they want to step, just short of weed edge.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6368997
11/09/18 10:48 AM
11/09/18 10:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,166
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
WadeRyan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,166
Nebraska
That's exactly why I am not a huge flat set fan. They have their time and place. Why not make a step-down dirthole right there and force him to step on your pan? I guess I'm boring just running the same basic dirthole over and over again. It out produces the flashy sets with transplanted grass, four holes around a trap, or trying to judge where a coyote is going to step between grass patches. I see people constantly having dug up traps, near misses, etc. Generally the only evidence I see of coyote visits are when they're spinning in a catch circle. I've come to the conclusion our Nebraska coyotes are just dumber than the average coyote apparently.


Eventually everything must die.
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6369052
11/09/18 12:10 PM
11/09/18 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,437
MT
Boone Liane Offline
trapper
Boone Liane  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,437
MT
Originally Posted by SkyeGoode
Originally Posted by EdP
The lack of any backing at all surprised me.


Usually flat sets don't utilize a backing...but to a wild canine, even a domestic canine, those little teeny tiny tufts of grass are a fire hydrant to them



Really?

Because I make many hundreds of them every year and they always have backing.

Backing eliminates 180 degrees of real estate and is a percentage multiplier.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6369054
11/09/18 12:13 PM
11/09/18 12:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,963
nunya,ks
T
tbn Offline
trapper
tbn  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,963
nunya,ks
Give up Boone you are outnumbered, lol.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6369064
11/09/18 12:31 PM
11/09/18 12:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,951
Hickman, Nebraska
jabNE Offline
trapper
jabNE  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,951
Hickman, Nebraska
I run flat sets only as a third set. Typically just two to a location, one a dirthole and other is a pee post.
Wade I must be boring too.
Maybe I'll try a flat or two more this year, maybe.
Jim


Money cannot buy you happiness, buy it can buy you a trapping license and that's pretty close.
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6369129
11/09/18 01:40 PM
11/09/18 01:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,481
N.W. Iowa
T
Tactical.20 Offline
trapper
Tactical.20  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,481
N.W. Iowa
I usually set a flat and a dirt hole, sometimes two flats no dirt hole, the have a backing too

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: Tactical.20] #6369283
11/09/18 03:47 PM
11/09/18 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,416
Ames, IA
MikeTraps2 Offline
trapper
MikeTraps2  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,416
Ames, IA
I love using flat sets, and they ALWAYS have some sort of backing. As said above the backing eliminates the animal working it from the back (usually).

I usually set two sets at least per location, one dirthole and one flat. The dirtholes are big and flashy the flats sets are invisible, I figure make the sets polar opposites I can get the brash and the shy animals both


Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure

Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: tbn] #6373428
11/14/18 03:52 PM
11/14/18 03:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by tbn
Give up Boone you are outnumbered, lol.



Boone has to troll every post I ever make on Facebook too, for some reason, he just doesn't like me. Boone, I didn't mean to say that NO flat sets have backing, but I just meant in a general sense compared to a dirthole.


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6373461
11/14/18 05:35 PM
11/14/18 05:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,963
nunya,ks
T
tbn Offline
trapper
tbn  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,963
nunya,ks
You have to realize, Boone catches a lot of coyotes. I would pay close attention if he offers advice. I agree completely with what he has told you.as I do the same. No backing,well you are just allowing them to come to the backside.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6373487
11/14/18 06:20 PM
11/14/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 94
Ontario Canada
D
d2009 Offline
trapper
d2009  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 94
Ontario Canada
Sniper and Boone are offering good advice. You can help guide the animal without extra effort simply by choosing your spot. Doesnt have to be much, subtle is better. Take your time and look around for those spots its worth an extra minute or two.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6373495
11/14/18 06:32 PM
11/14/18 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,302
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,302
Marion Kansas
Not to pick sides in a feud if there is one, and I'll say I have no idea what happens on other sites, but I'll say Boone is one of the guys I setup and listen to when he posts on here. And the more I learn the more I value his insight.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6373500
11/14/18 06:36 PM
11/14/18 06:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 883
NC
M
mrob Offline
trapper
mrob  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 883
NC
The only set I ever make without a backing is a dirt hole. I can construct a dirt hole in a way that guides the animal if there is not a backing, I still prefer a backing if one is available.

A flat set needs a backing if you want it to be a high percentage set even if you have to place a backing where you want to make the set.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6373511
11/14/18 06:49 PM
11/14/18 06:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 182
Wisconsin
B
Bear Tracker Offline
trapper
Bear Tracker  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 182
Wisconsin
I ran my falts sets and scent post this year with old cattle skulls and leg bones. Caught my first coyotes. Did not have any luck with dirt holes this year. I will keep trying. What do those of you with experience think of setting these up in advance and putting urine on them in the summer? then set them when the season opens.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6373722
11/15/18 12:34 AM
11/15/18 12:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,299
Frazee, MN
B
backroadsarcher Offline
trapper
backroadsarcher  Offline
trapper
B

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Posts: 1,299
Frazee, MN
I disagree with moving or making new sets after 2 weeks of empty traps. The last 2 weeks here in MN has included deer rifle season. This 1 week of chaos sends the coyotes running, especially in this area. So I figure that's at least 1 week of nothing and don't expect coyotes for another week. This is what I usually see here in this area.

Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6374166
11/15/18 03:31 PM
11/15/18 03:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
trapper

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Posts: 31
Wisconsin
I'm sorry I should re-phrase, I COMPLETELY agree that Boone knows what he is talking about, I respect him as a Western coyote trapper and I actually follow his posts on Facebook because I manage most of the trapping groups and pages on Facebook! I just meant that Boone doesn't like me based on what he's told me in the past, that he thinks I'm trapping for "attention". Again, I'm not discrediting him at all, and I appreciate all the advice! But I just know that trapping in Wisconsin is MUCH different than trapping in the south or out west, so I also consider that when reading feedback, as so far, much of the advice posted wouldn't apply to Wisconsin due to legality or logistics.


"The Barefoot Trapper"
Fur Hat Business, search on Facebook: "Bearfoot Furs"
Re: Question about Canine Flat Sets [Re: SkyeGoode] #6374172
11/15/18 03:53 PM
11/15/18 03:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Wisconsin
SkyeGoode Offline OP
trapper
SkyeGoode  Offline OP
trapper

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Posts: 31
Wisconsin
This is the thread on Trapperman that I was referencing when I said "no backing". I didn't mean absolutely no backing, I just mean very small and subtle. The tufts of grass and scat clump in my original photo ARE the focal points because this area is just a completely flat dirt spot; no rocks, no grass, nothing, like a smooth gravel road. In my experience with the shy WI coyotes we have, if you bring out a new rock or log and place it somewhere, it takes them months to feel comfortable to start using it. https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/350303/all/FLAT_SET_-_The_No.1_flat_set_I

Here are a few of my other "flat sets" that I use, hopefully it will show that I don't mean just placing the trap in the wide open with no appeal. I don't often log into this forum so I miss some of the advice before I pull my sets but I appreciate learning from those who are experienced. Being a female in a male-dominated sport, I often have a "chip on my shoulder" and become defensive, especially because I try to really put in 210% effort in everything I do and for some guys, it still isn't good enough. I feel that I'm experienced enough to be able to give advice as it pertains to Wisconsin coyotes, but still like to learn from the Western guys in case anything else can apply here, after all, none of us will ever be experts in trapping, and you can't ever know everything since these animals teach us something new every day.


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